not good for the street.

It surely won't be because I earned (a lot) more than that in the UK in 1990.

The end is nigh upon us.

What this means is that you should be buying stock of their competition, as traders will leave and the business will go with them. Buy on this market pullback....

Look at the fixed income earnings the top firms just reported. With Lehman gone, there was over 20% marketshare to divide up. Buy buy buy....

also means that other banks can pay less becuase there is gonna be more talent walking around. wouldnt be surprised to see Citi and BoA do the same thing

I'm sure the "pay czar" will make a decision on that.

As i don't know what the draft pay guidelines say, i don't know how meaningful this is. but it was interesting, nonetheless.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aee5a54a-c7f6-11de-8ba8-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1
The Federal Reserve told big US banks on Monday that draft pay guidelines aimed at curbing excessive risk-taking will have to be followed in this year’s round of bonus payments, even though the rules do not officially come into force until 2010.

The call for a speedy implementation of the proposals underlines the Fed’s desire to change Wall Street’s pay practices and stave off a public backlash ahead of what promises to be a bumper bonus season at many banks.

The timing of the Fed’s move is important because it sets the tone on compensation just as financial institutions are deciding how to apportion their 2009 bonus pool to star bankers and traders.

In meetings at the regional offices of the Fed, regulators told chief executives of the nation’s 28 top banks that they had until February 1 to prepare a written analysis of how their compensation practices meet the guidelines, according to some of the attendees.

no way will citi or boa pay cash now that rbs and lloyds arent.

Depends on if we want to follow the UK lead.

"What this means is that you should be buying stock of their competition, as traders will leave and the business will go with them. Buy on this market pullback...."

I'm not so sure about that.

They'll find new monkeys to do the same mediocre job.

And, then, which one do you want to own... the one that pays 75% of revenues out? Or the one that pays SHAREHOLDERS most of the profits.

Somewhere,

Big trades are about relationships.

The sad truth is that anyone who is truly talented leaves the banks to go to HF or PE. All of this posturing about losing the best people at the banks if they don't pay them is a complete joke - the best people leave anyways.

The only reason the banks are making any money is that they're borrowing from the Fed at basically zero. I'd like to see how much they would make today if Fed Funds was 3-4%.

Not to mention that the Fed and other regulators have been in bed with WS lobbyists for years. I find it hard to believe anything in the papers that the Fed says to "Big Banks". Is that after they cut a special deal for their favorites at GS or JPM? Its a joke and everyone in the business knows it.

"The sad truth is that anyone who is truly talented leaves the banks to go to HF or PE. All of this posturing about losing the best people at the banks if they don't pay them is a complete joke - the best people leave anyways."

Bingo. The majority of investment bank employees are the middle of the pack.

Actually, thats just the newer ones.

The old guard is actually the bottom of the back... all the folks who couldn't get the good jobs when they graduated (law firms, etc.).

I would not worry about any en masse hiring by PE firms or hedge funds in the near term. Its mostly a red herring.

"The old guard is actually the bottom of the back... all the folks who couldn't get the good jobs when they graduated (law firms, etc.)."

Not really sure what that means...In my time period, the mid '80's. The smart greedy kids went into finance, we skipped law and medicine because it was boring and there was no money in it. It was something you could always fall back on if you changed your mind.

p09, i can't remember where i read it. vanity fair maybe? somebody had to have seen it, but there was an article recently on how the old guard really was a bit middling. not so much in intelligence, but in drive. banking was a career that you went into along family lines, to buy a place in greenwich and a place in the hamptons. bit of a caricature, but you get the point.

i think it was the early to mid-80s when that changed, to be honest. paul tsongas spoke at my college graduation and exhorted us all to think of more than the salaries, the BMWs, etc. you should have seen the horror on everyone's face. what was the time period covered in Liars' Poker?

Wow, mid'80s as "old guard". Funny. The 80s started the second wave, it certainly wasn't the first.
I'm talking about the actual old guard... (and the ones I'm thinking of are all still there, except one notable).

In college (ivy) in the '90s, the smartest kids did consulting. The smart kids with real interest did medicine.

The kids who were a more greedy, but usually not as smart, more the upper middle did investment banking. The good ones were out of the bulge bracket within a few years, with one exception I can think of.

I've met lots of smart folks in my lifetime, in many different areas... and I know a lot of bankers.

And rarely do those groups intersect.

no, somewhere, pre-80s as old guard.

i actually know quite a few intelligent bankers. some of the brightest people i knew went into banking. maybe it was the times.

It was Cal Trillin: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/opinion/14trillin.html

Played comedically as usual, but with a fair amount of truth to it (paging Stan O'Neal).

malthus, thank you!! that would have driven me crazy.

its all the same talent. people leave banks cuz they get fed up with the politics or can make more on thier own. back to the point...this is gonna be another head shot to manhattan RE

> no, somewhere, pre-80s as old guard

I personally know a few of the guys who are in all the books, the guys that basically created modern M&A and investment banking space. The big names that made the big bucks. This isn't a brag, its not an impressive connection, it doesn't make me any cooler, just a personal one I happen to have that doesn't serve me a whole lot (college has something to do with it). Just mentioning it for this reason...

More than one has told me they went into banking because they couldn't get jobs in the fancy places. And, read the books, its pretty well covered how Kravis and such had lousy grades and few options.

Maybe there are some geniuses in there, but these are their bosses I'm talking about.

> i actually know quite a few intelligent bankers. some of the brightest people i knew went into
> banking. maybe it was the times.

And, as many folks have said, healthy chunks of the top leave.

I guess its also relative....