I've just returned to NYC after 2 decades elsewhere. I want to buy a coop or condo with 2 BR, a kitchen for someone who actually cooks, and either a real dining room or a LR/DR that has room for a table that seats 8. I'd love to live in the UWS (near work) because I'd like to be able to walk to restaurants, etc., but I can't afford enough space there. Harlem seems like the most realistic alternative, but I don't know it at all. Where should I look? Thanks for any advice.

not sure of your budget but below 125th and near Frederick Douglass is probably best and you should have your pick of the litter

over both shoulders

no, no, just fun'in ya...
Here you go'
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/475616-condo-105-west-117th-street-central-harlem-new-york

hmm
if you go for this check the sale prices for 103, 107, 109 and 111 west 117 apt 1
these are essentially the same apt as what falco is sending you to.
At this point you should not pay over 900k for it

From what you describe you should look in Manhattan Valley instead of Harlem. The prices are not that different from Harlem, and there are plenty of excellent restaurants in walking distance along the 100th-110th part of Broadways, a new Whole Foods on 97th & Columbus etc. Plus it's an easy commute to UWS on the 1 train.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/383846-condo-610-west-110th-street-manhattan-valley-new-york
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/415668-coop-300-west-109th-street-manhattan-valley-new-york

Also check out SOHA 118 close to A,B,C and D trains and many bus lines running south to the UWS.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/464935-condo-301-west-118th-street-central-harlem-new-york

i agree -- if you can afford the columbia area it is better than harlem
also depends if you like old vs new buildings

wow -- soha 118 prices are on par with what nyc_obs gave you for UWS -- no contest
SOHA cant compete with these prices
Sorry Althea

if you can qualify there are many hdfc coops that are priced much much lower than these choices -- in UWS or Harlem

I find Morningside still substantially higher than Harlem in terms of what you get for your money. Agree with Joe about SoHa; way overpriced. The 117th apartment listed is about $400K overpriced. In the next 6 months a bunch of new developments will be opening on Frederick Douglass. Then we shall see more reductions in Harlem based on inventory.

This is an interesting question, but you really need a price range to put things in perspective. There's just so many different options available right now.

We live near Columbia but have to deal with drunken frat boys and students which is not enjoyable. We've been around undergrads for way too long and are ready to move along. Other than that Morningside Heights is generally a nice area but its pretty pricey.

Manhattan Valley is nice and has changed considerably over the past few years. It will probably be unrecognizable in 10 more. It's close to central park, the B C and not too far from the 1. If you're working on the UWS, then really anywhere in Harlem west of 5th ave you would be able to get the BC or the 2 3 and get there conveniently.

We're in contract to buy up near Striver's Row (above 125th st. near st. nicholas park) and like that area. It seems nice and quiet and mostly residential with good train access.

Hi all, just to add my thoughts, we closed on a brownstone duplex (1600 sq.ft) a couple of weeks ago on 122nd & 7th. Ended up paying $590,000 ($372 sq.ft). I won't pretend that everything is perfect with the neighborhood, not all that many restaurants etc., but it does have a lot of charm and the Mount Morris historic district is beautiful. There is also a strong community vibe. As one of the other commenters stated, there is a lot of development on FDB and I think we will start to see more restaurants going up in the near future.

Not sure if we overpaid! but we do love the apartment and the 2/3 & A/C trains are only a few minutes away.

Best of luck :)

P.S mmarquez110 you are in a great spot there mate!

If you take the 1 train to work on the UWS then you might want to consider looking further uptown on the west side (Hamilton Heights, Washington Heights and Inwood) in addition to the Columbia/Manhattan Valley areas. Prices are generally much lower and there are some wonderful apartments.

There are some good deals to be had for condos around 157th and Riverside. I bought a renovated 1 bedroom this year and generally like the area because it's beautiful, quiet, and a block from the #1 train. Neighborhood amenities are lacking right now, but in a few years I think they will improve. I know there are quite a few very nice 2-3 bedrooms in the area from 450k up...

kissiffer4- congrats. that's a nice area but we just couldn't find anything that fit our requirements.
we hope to close within a few weeks.

agreed - there are not enough restaurants in that area. hopefully that will change soon.

Does anyone have an opinion to share on this new listing/bldg in Morningside Hts?

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/477825-coop-245-west-104th-street-manhattan-valley-new-york

It's Manhattan Valley, not Morningside Hts. No photos and no square footage listed. Find out the square footage and then we can determine if its a good deal. I doubt it though. Probably close to $1,000 per square foot which is very high for the location and late 2009.

>> Also check out SOHA 118 close to A,B,C and D trains and many bus lines running south to the UWS

Given that the Soha Apt listed by affrench is lacking on the privacy front..
- The Yard has a wide audience (see picture on the website)
- All the views seem to look into the an enclosed area

It is WAY over-priced

Mmarquez110, good luck with closing! Having just gone through it for the first time I think I lost 10 lbs in the process. Not sure if this is your first purchase, but give me a shout if you have any questions (no, I'm not a broker, just offering friendly advice!).

Thanks. I'll definitely stop by the board if any questions arise during the closing. Yes, this is our first purchase.

Thanks so much for your suggestions. Unfortunately, I don't think that I can afford the space I'd like in Morningside Heights or Manhattan Valley. Everything I've seen under $1 million is too small or in such miserable shape that I'd need to spend a lot to make it liveable. I'm not sure that I'd feel comfortable enough to buy a townhouse apt in Harlem and am thinking more of a building with a doorman.

lef,

That's been my experience as well. Morningside/Columbia and Manhattan Valley is significantly more expensive than Harlem in terms of what you get for your money. There are a number of new developments opening in Harlem in the next several months. That will add to inventory and drive prices further down, me thinks.

lef2009 - if you've been gone for a while you might not fully understand the state of the housing market here. Please, please, please do yourself a favor and look at rentals. RE prices aren't going up anytime soon - double digit unemployment.
If you must buy because you have a misconception that you aren't a real person if you rent, and you want to spend less than $1M, then perhaps you qualify for an HDFC. It's always a good time to buy an HDFC (if the building's financials are in good shape).

Generally - the best part of Harlem is the Frederick Douglass corridor from 110 to about 122. The next best is Convent and the final one is the Broadway corridor from 135th to 145th (this neighborhood is "the next" good neighborhood in Harlem as people move in in anticipation of Columbia's expansion.) Some like Mt. Morris but I think it's overrated and it won't get you to the UWS side so it's out anyway. I also think Striver's is overrate.

Finally if you're working on the UWS and willing to live in Harlem you may consider WaHi or Inwood. The commute to the UWS would be 30 minutes and there are plenty of solid buildings (all of them West of Broadway) above 155.

But again please look at many rentals before you pull the trigger on a purchase. You'll be shocked how much less your monthly payments will be to get a similar apartment.

The commute to the UWS from the Lenox Ave area near the 2,3 trains is no more than 15 minutes whether to 96th and Broadway or 72nd and Broadway.

bronxboy - I stand corrected

I agree with Jazzman about the Frederick Douglas corridor, but only for coops or condos. Townhouses seem to be very narrow there. Convent seems too far from subways to me. I prefer Mt Morris and Strivers. Why do you think they are overrated, Jazzman?

Strivers is in the middle of nowhere - there is no place to shop. You buy groceries where? Pathmark on 145th? And you're stuck with the local trains at 135th.

Convent has some of the same problems, but the townhouses there are so wide and beautiful that it compensates for it. Not too far to the A B C D at 145th. Fairway is easier to get to. It's farther from the projects etc.

Mt Morris is dirty, loud, and lacks retail. I hate the Metro North trains. It's just too close to east Harlem/Spanish Harlem. Way too many projects not far from there. The farther away you get from those projects the better. Certainly there are 4 or 5 strings of the most beautiful townhouses in the world, but I just couldn't live there.

I mostly agree with Jazzman.Great retail is lacking throughout much of Harlem- that is a known issue but I am definitely seeing an improvement up here in Hamilton Heights (although still a long way from great). I would shorten the Fredrick Douglass Blvd. corridor to 116th-122nd for now. South of 116th on FDB has an odd feel to it- old and grungy mixed with new, shiny but not completed- sort of a ghost town effect- and that was when I walked past the area last Saturday afternoon when the weather was great. I would be reluctant to buy anything around FDB for a long time to come - I suspect it's going to suffer from large over supply. I agree with Jazzman about Strivers

As to HDFC's...it really depends. Some buildings are strict about the income limits and others are not. I found an HDFC building for a close friend a few months ago. A really great opportunity. Her bid matched the highest closing price ever in the building (which was for the mirror image apartment in similar condition- in Oct 2008) which was 10% below asking price and the sellers were insulted. They got a bid somewhere in the vicinity of full ask just a week later. I know the board approved the buyers so now it's a question of the appraisal. The apartment (as well as all units that come up for sale in the building) was under-priced for the neighborhood- but the board is pretty strict about the income limits and some HDFC's are not- which I believe represents the difference in pricing.

Mimi, If you are talking the distance from the 1 or 3 train on much of Convent- then you have a point. The A/C, B/D 145th st station is pretty convenient from Convent though. I generally use the entrance on St. Nich between 147th and 148th though. Actually if your on Convent in the lower 140's the 1 train is a bit easier to get to because the cross streets are relatively flat or a minor incline...as opposed to 145th and above where the incline is rather significant. Also lower Convent Ave is very close to the northern entrance to the A/C, B/D trains for the 125th street station.

Lower Convent is grody. Upper convent is a walk through a park to get to the IND, whether relatively flat or a huge cliff. Right around 145th is kind of icky. So is the 145th Pathmark (125th not as bad, especially with a car). But I'm glad you mentioned cars. Because every house in Striver's row has at least 2 parking spots, you can just go to Fairway with the greatest of ease. At some point, though, the subway really does matter ... I hate taxis, and car service is even worse.

"Where should I look in Harlem?"

Dont. Better look somewhere else

Jazzman -

It's not that I need to own to be a real person, but that I need to own to feel like I have a real home. I rented (in many cities) before buying (in three different one, seriatim). Now that I'm renting again, I'm itching to change things to make the place mine. Perhaps not the best attitude for a New Yorker, but so it goes.

I'm in no danger of qualifying for an HDFC, so I need to look at market rate units. Thanks for the guidance on places to try. LEF

"Dont. Better look somewhere else"

Like Hammond, Indiana?

we just checked out Parc Standard on Eighth Ave (FDB) ad 113th.
Pretty cool and seems like good pricing..

well.. I am biased ;)

Why are you biased?