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(Discussing Tribeca Space)
Has anyone been to see this new condo development? Prices are pretty good for the amount of space offered. Is there something we’re missing???
It's a strange building.
While it's on two corners. The longest exposure is on Church Street, which has lots of traffic, and a remarkably ugly street scene...very cheap retail, and one of those "we covered it in stucco instead of hiring an architect" buildings across the street.
It also has a very large core, so much of many units are darker and shaped strangely.
This is definitely not one of the typical high-end Tribeca conversions.
small for the money
Some cool apartments but the floorplans are deceiving. The two bedrooms are not real two bedrooms as in many cases the second bedroom does not have a window or if it does is inaccessible.
The space per square footage was pretty decent though given other condos
cookie cutters with badly designed bathrooms, ugly kitchens and most important: too expensive for space.
its also close to the WTC site. if they eventually rebuild you will be very close to the action
The exterior is really unimpressive. I'm sure it will look better once they develop the ground floor, retail, etc. But that "blown stucco" look is really terrible.
No W/D allowed
I think that if you want space above all your needs, this is are nice apartments.
and good prices!!!
horrible location--ugly streets with lots of traffic during business hours and a bit desolate at night. the listings are cheap for a reason--poor design and poor location. they just threw in a few high end appliances and hoped that the shine would blind you from seeing beyond the stainless steal dazzle. Look north or west for a better area of Tribeca
w/d are allowed. good value for your $.
Bizarre building - commencing with the history of initial development to the labrynth of apartments in odd configurations. Finishes are poor and appliances are low end. Looks more like a rental. Bathrooms - Holiday Inn???
Wow!!! So much space! and NOT cookie-cutter apartments. Bathrooms are just o.k. but not everyone can afford to live at the St. Regis. I was told they have ammended the offering plan so that W/D will be allowed. Great location, next to all subways and a Whole Foods is coming only a block away. The 10-year tax-abatement is definitively a plus. Space vs. price is the best in the area, specially compared to the "designer" rip-off buildings under construction all around. I only wish I knew of this building before they sold out of the mid to lower priced apartments.
at least the above post is not a broker
Amazing that people have become so snotty in this City. You don't like the bathroom? Change it!
Most people have so little vision that I suppose they can only imagine accepting what they are given without question. I've seen this place. It's really decent and great value.
Does anyone have an estimate on how much it would cost to upgrade the master bathrooms in their A line units? putting in a larger bath tub and maybe a second sink.
great street.. the outside stucco seems hollow when u knock on it
snooty little possum!!! hihihihi
i bought there and im really happy.
The only concern is that they are delaying the closings, does anyone has any feedback on this??
We were looking for a 3 bedroom for a family. But no W/D, spiral staircase turned us off.
#21 - I bought there too! I am really happy as well. I was told there was my closing was going to be April / May. Now I am being told late June.
#21 and #24 - I'm in the same boat, waiting to close. The streeteasy site says 8 sales have been reported to the state - and about 50 in contract. Does this mean some people have started to close on their apts?
Any update on closing dates? We looked recently, and they are saying mid-July. After reading #21 and #24, I don't know if that is a "real" date. Has any actally scheduled a closing or received a notice to close???
Do you know why they are delaying closings??
#2, #4, #5 and #14 have summed up the building.
Great Price per sf on Paper, unimpressive in person.
For weeks they were backed up with showings when they first hit the market.
Took a long time for anything to go into contract (suggests at some point they decided to negotiate). Low-end finishes has the brokers almost apologetic for the poor choice of the developer as it was suggested that anyone coming in will rip it out anyway. I think it defeats the purpose of buying into a new development?
I believe the project was dumped by the original developer and sold years later...
all in all, the prices are okay, but don't expect to flip, as the newer developments in the area actually went the right rout by putting nicer finishes in.
Goodluck to all that bought in, it should be a great family home.
Thank you for reply # 26, but I am looking for info on closing dates....Does anyone know when they will REALLY happen? Have there been many delays?
I've been told that there's an easement problem with the building and the City refuses to grant it a Temporary Certificate of Occupancy. Easement disputes could last for years. Can you get out of your purchase contract?
HOLY SMOKES on post # 30!! Do you know how someone can find out if that is really the case? There is soooooo much rumor surrounding a new development, and so much misinformation....THANKS.
I heard the same thing as #30 - serious easement problem with Tribeca Space - building is infringing on another building's air rights - probably has to do with the new floors added to the top of the building - Tribeca Space will probably have to duke it out in court with other building or settle out of court or take down top floors... Whatever happens, it won't be good and will probably delay closings for months or years.
SCARY. How do you hear about this? I'd like to track down the facts---is there any way to get this information, on-line or elsewhere? I would be happy to post anything I learn....
i've already learned not to trust corcoran marketing - they promised occupancy in early '07...
Post #34-- did you buy a unit? Did you here about this easement/air rights "problem" from Corcoran or elsewhere?
I predicted this . . . out of state developer and bad buildouts = cheap trouble
I looked and bought in 200 chambers. Moved in 1 month ahead of schedule.
It is all about the developer; you have to check them out. The marketing is all BS.
I was told that Thurcon is the developer. They have/had many buildings in New York, though a large block was sold off. I have read before that this building has an "out of state" developer. Is it a different Thurcon?
I heard about the air rights problem from corcoran. But not sure I should trust corcoran now when they promised occupancy in early 2007.
Post 39--- did you buy a unit? If so, did Corcoran give you an update about the "problem" recently?
you can get this information free on ACRIS the nyc database or you can go to Mighty Maps and get it there, perhaps also property shark.
Post 39 Response: yes, I did buy a unit - david kest of corcoran (the guy in charge of selling the project) refuses to return my phone calls so i can't get updates - corcoran is as bad as thurcon.
I did a search on ACRIS and found an air rights agreement from Jan 2007 - suggesting the air rights problem was resolved. Has anyone else found evidence that the problem is still ongoing and is the source for the delays?
Post #43-- Much thanks for the info. I went to ACRIS but didn't know how to get to that info. Any pointers??
I actually got to the ACRIS site through Mighty Maps. I also just spent the last 15 mins on the phone with the sales office who says the air rights issue is totally resolved and they are looking at mid-august now.
anyone have an interest in cooperating to put pressure on the developers/sales office for results?
I am ready to take action. This is MAX FORRESTER, I also have an ongoing blg and a list of purchasers.
I will be posting it regularly with new information I found out.
I looked at this place back in January. What spooked me and my wife was the manner in which the agents were acting. They all appeared to be very secretive and hush hush about what I have know freaking idea. Anytime I asked a question it was as if they were in a trial and they had to answer the question very carefully. Just a very strange ordeal and experience for us. Something didn't seem right. For once my intuition was right.
I agree with #50. My wife and I went and had a few relatively normal questions for a $2M investment. You would have thought that we asked the broker for his firstborn. He was more interested in talking about frivolous things than having real answers on basic questions like why there were no W/D, and how the renters would impact the building (there is an attached "secret" rental building). The build outs were soo cheap that it just seemed like soemthing was off. Things like huge rooftop mechanicals (and what kind of noise they would make) were brushed off "we cant really turn them on just for you, it is a union thing".
Plus -- we lived across the street for 2 years and in that time we NEVER saw any workers in the building on the weekends. There was so little progress over the time period that we finally just got scared off. Good developers will get in with the unions and have as many people as they can in over the weekends.
I would stay away from this development.
Stay away from David Kest [corcoran marketing] - he refuses to speak with you once you sign a purchase contract. he suckers you in and then - that's all folks!
You may want to keep quiet rather than have them rush to finish the work. I totally understand how frustrated to wait for your unit to be completed, I was waiting for 2 1/2 years in the same situation at another new condo, and I did envy whoever could move in before me (my unit took about 8 months since the first people moved-in to the same building). But now after living in the new constructed condo for months and I am glad that I was not one of the first who moved in there - those people had to live with lobby not finised, hallway unpainted, noise from other unit's work, etc. Be patient and better not to be in there first.
TS is finished - it just can't get a certificate of occupancy - so it's been sitting empty for 6 months. And yes, I agree about David Kest - a true lowlife.
That's a whole lotta' doom and gloom. Even with all of the delays, why assume that that the building will never get a C of O (and never open)?
Also- hint for those who are joining forces--why not share the expense of hiring an expediter (you can get a referral from an architect)to get the real story at the Dept. of Buildings?
I wonder why this Sponsor did not or is not closing with a TCO. A lot of developments will close with a TCO and then work on the permanant CO
They don't have a TCO....there seem to be problems getting even that. Getting a final C of O will be the next problem....
Oh,.. that bites. Well for what's it worth. I did see the building and liked it for the Price PSF even with some of the weird 2nd bedrooms. The weird 2nd bedroom provides additional space for storage. What I didn't like was the finishes and how they dropped the ceiling for the central air. Location was good.
Tribeca Space has had its Temporary C of O DENIED.
Sorry to be a Doubting Thomas--but I don't know if that information is true and we don't need more misinformation....What leads you to believe that the application for a TCO was denied???
Corcoran told me so... As the selling agent I think they should know...
We were told, as of yesterday, that they were waiting for the TCO, which they thought would happen soon. They said closings would happen end of August.
When did they tell you it was DENIED???
Did they say why it was denied, and how much this will delay the closings????
Was told yesterday that it was denied due to an inadequate sprinkler system - building will probably need significant plumbing work - have heard that November is the new targeted closing date.
hate to say I told you so . . . I posted about this place months ago.
Bad developer, shoddy work, and in development forever.
Do your homework, people . . . this was a dog from the start!
message to david kest of corcoran marketing: you promised me that i'd be living in tribeca space by the end of last year!!!!!!! what do you have to say for yourself??????? you're making my life miserable!!!!
Who specifically at Corcoran told you? I asked David Kest yyesterday after seeing your post about TCO being denied and Kest said everything was on track for August. Who else at Corcoran should we be speaking to?
HELLO!?!? WE WOULD BE INSANE TO CLOSE WITH JUST A TEMPORARY CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY! Consider the track records these developers have! Constant delays, overpromising, underdelivering ... According to the NYC Department of Buildings website: "The Department strongly recommends that you negotiate a closing based on a final CO, not a TCO. If you purchase a co-op, condo or house that has a TCO, you should consult a licensed architect or engineer to determine what work has to be done in order for the building to receive a final CO. Once you purchase a property, you, as the owner, have the legal obligation to make sure that the building obtains a final CO documenting its compliance with the Building Code and the Zoning Resolution. Because this is your responsibility, you should ask your attorney to obtain written assurance and sufficient escrow from the seller/developer to ensure that the developer actually finishes any outstanding work and obtains the final CO in a timely manner"
Important Note: If a TCO expires and is not renewed, a new buyer may find it difficult or impossible to renew homeowner's insurance policies or to sell or refinance the new home."
I can't believe anyone here is considering closing with these people based on a temporary certificate of occupancy. They expire in 90 days! The developers could be in Brazil by then, and we could be stuck with apartments that we will not be allowed to live in and that we will not be able to sell.
There are a few developers, builders and contractors that will use the T.C.O. as proof that the construction project is substantially completed, to obtain final payment from a buyer, owner or a financial or lending institution. If it is the final payment, you may find that you or your client has been deceived. You may find that the paper work for the Buildings Department - in order for them to issue a final C. of O.- has not been completed and much of the construction work was improper and/or incomplete. If you don't have the final C. of O. at closing or at the time of final payment, your ability to obtain the C. of O. could be very costly.
But watch out! Some developers will have a clause in the contract, stating, “when a T.C.O. is issued, it will constitute that the project is complete”, final payment or closing is then demanded.
there is such a clause in the standard tribeca space purchase contract... purchasers may be forced to close prior to final c of o.
Anyone have more info on the rental units (the one that will always be rental) located within TS? They have a 125 Church Street address. Does anyone know how many there will be?
The Offering plan said these rental tenants will use the lobby, but will have a separate elevator bank. Has anyone ever really seen this separate elevator bank?
And what about the laundry room? Will the renters have a separate one???
#72 If a project were in fact complete then why would the DOB issue a Temp. C of O? I think if one had to go to court, the argument could be made that the DOB only issued a C of O implying that there are sufficient construction related items that need to be addressed before a CO can be issued. No?....there must be a difference between a TCO and CO.
To Post 75 re the renters- there is no mention that they will have a separate laundry room. Also- what is to really stop them from using the gym and the playroom as there is access to them from the lobby.
It will be a battle down the road....
DOES ANYONE KNOW THE NUMBER OF RENTAL UNITS THAT WILL BE RETAINED PERMANENTLY BY THE SPONSOR??
I'm ready for the battle against Thurcon... Entry to laundry room, gym, playroom should require a proximity card that's only given to owners in the complex - not the renters.
What in the world would make you think that access to amenities should be exclusively granted to owners only?
The rental units are commercial space with no access to the residential facilities like laundry room, childs play area, gym, sauna, etc.
I think the plan said the rental units will use both the lobby and elevators. I assume the other amenities as well. The reason there are rental units is because the developer does own outright the land under one of the buildings, but has a 99 year land lease, so they can't be sold as condos. I am curious how many rental units there will be, but I'm ok with them useing the laundry room, etc. The additional units are part of the reason the common charges are relatively low for a doorman building. My guess is there's approx 15-20 rental units, about 3 per floor for the six floors of the one building, but I suppose I could be wrong.
Unless the Offering PLan explicitly said that the renters would be using the laundry room, gym, sauna, etc., they won't be able to use those facilities. If the developer tries to allow it, they'll have a lawsuit on their hands from the owners.
I think you should worry about Closing first.
Agree. Then worry about making Thurcon regret the hell that they're putting us through...
At the rate that Thurcon is going, we'll be lucky to close by the end of this year.
HERE IS THE LATEST INFO THAT I HAVE ON CLOSING.
June 29, 2007
To the Buyers of Tribeca Space Condominium
We have become aware of the fact that many of you are unhappy with the delays in closing the units. As a result, there are many unfounded rumors circulating which we would like to address and put straight. Firstly, we have received our 421A Preliminary Certificate of Partial Abatement and exemption of Real Estate Taxes and have declared the condominium offering plan effective, important steps in our preparations for closing.
We have been diligently preparing for closing, including finalizing the as-built, architectural drawings, and preparing the tax lot drawings for submission to the City Surveyor. An amendment will shortly be submitted to the Attorney General which will clean up some inconsistencies in the Declaration of Condominium so that it can be recorded. In addition the amendment will address the issues of the light and air easement which many of you have been discussing. In brief, in January of this year, we entered into a Zoning Lot Development Agreement and an Easement of Light and Air with the adjoining property owner to, among other things, permit the maintenance of certain windows which would otherwise have been classified as lot line windows. These agreements have been recorded in CRFN # 2007000080911 and CRFN #2007000145563 respectively. The result was that building plans had to be revised and the agreements reviewed by the Building Department. All of this has been accomplished and we are in the final steps of obtaining a temporary certificate of occupancy and getting the declaration ready for filing.
We apologize for these delays and any miscommunications with you. We anticipate commencing closing shortly but unfortunately we cannot give you exact closing dates because there are so many different entities and processes involved, but be assured that we are working towards moving this forward as quickly as possible. We will continue to communicate with Corcoran and each of you as things progress. We appreciate your patience.
Tribeca Mews, Ltd., Sponsor
I don't have any patience left! Tribeca Mews/Thurcon/Corcoran has been telling me that they "anticipate closing shortly" FOR A YEAR NOW!!!! When I bought my condo they told me that I'd close in October 2006. Ever since then they've been telling me that I'd close in 4 - 6 weeks. What do they mean by "shortly?" Everybody involved with the Tribeca Space project deserves to go to jail for their fraud and misrepresentations.
Sounds like horrendous management across the board including sales management as well. It appears there was information that people knew about that should of been presented to potential buyers. Just my two cents.
I agree with the last two posts. I have no patience anymore. And I've been lied to so many times about when we'd be able to close that I've stopped counting. What Thurcon and Corcoran Marketing have put me and my family through is criminal.
TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE-- guess who the managing agent will be for the first three years?? You guessed it--THURCON! Usually, a building gets an "outside" management company to handle the operations of the building. The sponsor actually hired themselves--at a huge fee. Even if the don't control the Board, they still handle the money for the building and the task of running it. TALK ABOUT A SWEETHEART DEAL!!
For what it's worth (probably not much):
I was involved on a smaller scale with a new condo project in the Village that's 'about to close' (and has been about to close for quite some time - but now I think we really are days away, thank god).
I heard that one of the buyers wanted to extract himself from the contract he signed, and was able to do so because most contracts (even the most boilerplate) have language buried in them somewhere that states if the project goes on too long, there is a timeframe from the date you signed the contract (or when the offering plan became effective) that if a date is not set for closing, you have the right to extricate yourself from the contract free and clear and receive you deposit money back in full.
This happened in the case of one of the units in our building on June 1 when we hit that timeframe and we still didn't have a closing date set. Of course, after allowing the first buyer out of his contract and refunding his deposit, the developer put the unit back on the market for $300,000 more than the initial selling price to the first buyer, and three days later, it already had another buyer with a new contract out on it!
I would check with your lawyer (hopefully a good real estate attorney) and have them carefully review your contract.
Post #91 - You are right. Everybody who signed a contract to purchase a unit at Tribeca Space can rescind the purchase contract at this point of time.
Thurcon running your building? God help you! Do you know that they've been prosecuted by the New York State Attorney General for engaging in "repeated fraudulent acts or...illegality in...conducting business?"
Okay #92 -
#91 here - if what you say is true, and if it's a situation where buyers in contract don't really like the builders, the building, and/or the management anymore (and it's not just general frustration with the time overrun situation), why don't those parties just take their money back and look elsewhere?
Particularly because it sounds from what poster #89 (and others) have written that there's no end in sight to this specific debacle?
Post #91 - There is anticipation that Corcoran will force the two agents that are responsible for most of the misrepresentations about TS (Jim Brawders and David Kest) to forfeit their commissions on the sales from Tribeca Space and give that money to the purchasers as partial compensation for the debacle. There is also anticipation that Thurcon will install a washer and dryer in every unit and provide each purchaser with a $10,000 voucher to California Closets as partial compensation for the debacle.
#91/94 here again:
Y'know, from my pov, that really wouldn't do it. There is anticipation 'this' will happen, there is anticipation that 'that' will happen. You also have been 'anticipating' closing for quite some time. It means nothing.
If it were me, I'd pick up my marbles and play somewhere else. I mean, you already know the situation here. You're no where NEAR closing, and it could still be months and months and months and months and months and months and.... You can take your deposit, put that in the bank, and EARN the same amount on your own in interest as a stupid W/D and a voucher for California Closets. You now KNOW what this builder is like to work with already - you KNOW what this management company will be like to work with for the first three years of your contract - I mean, c'mon already!
I understand it's not easy - when one commits, you naturally want to hang in there - I admire your tenacity. Bravo (or Brava, as the case may be). But enough's enough. There are plenty of very nice buildings, both brand new and not, in that area or close by where these sorts of shenanigans aren't tolerated. For you own mental hygiene, move on to a better situation!
I CALL SHENANIGANS!
Sounds like someone has a genie bottle and if they rub it real hard their wishes (like RE brokers giving up their commissions) will come true.
What if Corcoran and Thurcon don't come through? From the sounds of it, they can't be trusted...
I agree with #96. Run - don't walk - away from that building. Exercise your right to rescind your purchase contract.
According to both of my attorneys, it will be next to impossible to rescind. I am as impatient as you all and have been, for nine months and counting, in a very costly and very difficult living situation, topped with a pregnancy. However, these delays are extremely common in NYC, occurring in most new construction buildings; this is our third one and they all have been the same. It is clear that there are a lot of first time buyers commenting on the situation and that frustration is getting in the way of reality. Please take note that this message board will never be deleted from the internet and a few years down the road, when you may want to sell the apartment, it will come back to hunt us. This will hurt the re-sell value of the apartments in this building, no thanks to your patience and lack of understanding of the NYC real estate market and the steps it takes to get a certificate of occupancy. In this case, ignorance is not bliss.
#100 -- information has a way of getting out about bad management, bad value and bad faith developers. Say what you will about resale, but this building has been a dog from day 1.
All new development IS NOT created equal. I just bought into new dev in Tribeca after looking at Tribeca Space, moved in 2 weeks earlier than projected, all of the services are in working order and management is great.
Don't kid yourself -- a little research on the developer, and a good look at the building would have told you that.
I feel bad for all of the TS buyers, seriously. My wife is in the same condition, and I can't imagine getting stuck.
Research, research, research. Too much money to not do it. At this point it is time to lawyer up for the lot of you.