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What happened here yesterday that a bunch of units were listed as "no longer available" ...
that is a very good question, its almost all the units that were listed.
They all sold!
more likely.... they went rental...
there seem to be a ton of rental listings now.
I would guess that they are going rental or being cut in price
so many rental listings!
not a good sign!
NYCMatt... Let's be serious... They all sold?? come now
dewyagi, "ton of rental listings"? There are 14 currently and almost all have been listed for a long time. It has been known for many months that the sponsor put 35 or so apartments up for rent. He has not added any units as rentals as those that have been listed are leased.
The removal of the units is probably nothing more than cleaning up the listings here on SE. There were alot of duplicates, multiple brokers listed (Stribling and TDG), etc.
I was hoping they finally called it quits... I like the building but the prices are still too high. The cc and taxes easily hit $1200 a month.
If they cut the prices down to $450 to $500 per sqft, I'll buy something there.
Love this article's facts.
I actually just got some facts from my attorney (as I am under contract)- There are currently 28 units under contract but not closed (mine included)- It does seem as if things are moving, if not at a brisk pace, at least at a decent one. Also Wells Fargo is starting to work with the building as a lender, previously it was only HOME Mortgage and this, too, is a good sign. A friend called the brokers yesterday to inquire about renting a 2 br, and was told that they were only doing rentals on 1 br and studios, which is what their website shows.
> dewyagi, "ton of rental listings"? There are 14 currently and almost all have been listed for a long
So, its a good thing that they haven't been able to rent them? You're holding that up as a *positive*?
Not to mention, if you are a landlord with more than 14 apartments to rent, you likely aren't listing them all...
"You're holding that up as a *positive*?"
What? gator only posted facts - not sure where you're reading "positive" in any of that.
It's hard to follow RAL's bouncing ball. He's always in the process of screwing somebody over, somewhere.
If you drink the RAL Kool-Aid, everything he does (or doesn't do) will look rosey to you.
jocoru, i submitted an offer for an apartment a few days ago and a contract is being drafted. i had a question that i would like to ask off-line. i can be contacted email@example.com. thanks!
So the building is approximately 22% to 25% sold... in 3 years and has 4 times the apartments to sell as Forte... no one see's this going blowing up warehouse 11 style?
at least if it does it won't melt a membrane
Okay, so after more reading, the loan due date on OBP was extended 2 years back in May 2009. That means they have 300+ apartments to sell by May 2011. If they haven't sold at least 50% by September 2010, expect OBP to come down to $400 per sqft, more than Forte, to get the units off their books...
Thats one way this will end.
The other way is they get another load extension for another 2 years. If that happens, I'm sure we're read this one day and laugh to ourselves.
open, the building is between 30-35% sold. And there are more, and more likely, scenarios than you identify. For example, OBBP sells another 100-150 units by July 2011 (the effective date of the loan extension was July 2009), to get well over 50% sold and another extension is granted as a result as crossing the 50% threshold gives the building more traction, more lending options, and Park continues to come online.
And why would you think that OBBP would have to lower prices below Forte to "get the units off their books." Forte wasn't selling anything when it went under. OBBP has a decent sales pace in difficult times. OBBP is also a much better property with superior finishes, amenities, and floor plans.
For Truth...you sit behind a keyboard anonomously disparaging RAL and Levine. I have not illusions about Levine or any developer. I also have no illusion that you have an agenda and it is simply spineless to conduct an anonomous campaign against someone. Disclose who you are or just stop with this tirade.
somewhere, one of the difficulties in renting at OBBP is that you are not guaranteed a renewal of the lease. There are many people who have little interest in a property if they don't know whether they will be able to stay for more than a year or two. Thus some of the difficulty in renting the units.
LOL. You're funny guy. It's a discussion board buddy. If you can't handle the debate, don't engage.
Okay, you example:
They sell another 100-150 units by July 2011 to reach 50% ( after 4 years of sales ) and the lender ( Whom is probably dying to get back their $400 million dollars ) will extend the agreement again. Okay, that's possible.
Does it give the building more traction? I don't see that. Those remain units will be the units hardest to sell obviously.
More lending options? From here on, the lending options are not going to increase. You think it'll get better than 3.5% down? It'll only get worse from here. FHA is already tightening up and the government has used most of its funds to stabilize housing at this time.
The other scenario is the one I mentioned. As I said, we'll see 2 years from now and we'll think back and laugh.
"So the building is approximately 22% to 25% sold... in 3 years and has 4 times the apartments to sell as Forte... no one see's this going blowing up warehouse 11 style?"
It wouldn't shock me...
Oh please, Mr./Ms. Gator : I've known RAL personally, for 25 years. I'm a female entertainment industry publicist, living in East Midtown (as I have disclosed,on SE).
I have told RAL everything, personally, that I have written about.
He knows my name, address, phone number, D.O.B, and has been a guest in my apartment, MANY times, over the years.
I know much more about Robert A. Levine, than I have written. He has many former friends; as well as former business associates; and we have all been screwed by RAL. So, consider my comments to be a Public Service Announcement. Go back to your overpriced, undersold building; where RAL is waiting for you with another cup of his special Kool-Aid. Whoever you are.
wow, you win! you know someone I've never heard of.
Open, was your comment "You're funny guy. It's a discussion board buddy. If you can't handle the debate, don't engage." directed at me? I didn't take any offense to your post and I hope you didn't take any offense to mine. Don't mind the debate at all.
Regarding your post, 50% gives all buildings traction. First, many potential buyers won't make a purchase until after a building hits 50% so I think it would expand the buyer pool. Second, it would make increase lending options as numerous banks won't lend in a new condo that isn't 50% sold. Also, I don't believe that OBBP is FHA approved yet and hitting 50% would enable the bulidng to qualify for FHA (though I believe an application for approval under the 50% threshold has been made). My point is that this is just one of several scenarios (more than the 3 we have discussed). Many on this board think that most new construction condos will go under. I doubt that and think that OBBP will do just fine over the long run.
And Truth, I don't believe a word you say (that being said I don't believe a word RAL or Levine would say). You are a nameless, faceless message board poster who has an obvious agenda against RAL and Levine. You disclosed nothing that would make you accountable for what you have said and therefore it is of no relevance. You may know Levine and know soemthing about him. The liklihood is that you know nothing and are waging an internet campaign based on some real or perceived slight. I couldn't care less.
gator, keep saying to yourself that you made the right decision, otherwise you won't be able to sleep at night facing the FACTS.
as they say, there's an idiot born every second, at that second it was gator
wow ab_11218, thanks for your really constructive comment and additions to the board. I should probably just ignore such an inane post, but then again I'm an idiot so I don't know any better.
So the "facts" put forth by the bears on the board are appropriate for the board, but someone who puts forth a contrary or different opinion is an idiot? You keep thinking that...it will lead to a lot of success for you. And don't worry about me, I'm sleeping just fine. I made the absolute right decision for me and I am fully aware of all the facts. And by the way you may want to familiarize yourself with the difference between a "fact" and an "opinion." You might just learn something today.
This board really has become largely a waste of time. It is inhabited by mostly uncompromising bears that unrelentingly descend upon anyone who thinks that a property can be succesful or who thinks that there are situations in which one is a sensible buyer. Really quite sad that there is more balance and more understanding of differing opinions.
Story in today's paper: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/realestate/07deal1.html
I guess we know where they can hold condo meetings
gator, it's just the reality that you can't face. i remember 2 yrs ago people boasting about a purchase of a 2 br there for approx $1M facing the highway and telling themselves that it's fine. IT'S NOT.
i'm not a bear. in contract myself on a house that is priced 15% current market. so, unlike you, i can renovate the place and flip it if i want to and make 20-30%. you can buy your condo and be in the hole for 10% + closing costs.
there are plenty of good deals out there in much better locations with much better pricing. you got blinded by the view. in a few years, i hope you're right, but highly doubt it.
15% off current...
and the idiots bought it last year and were actually happy about it. how much is this apartment worth now? $600K, $500K????? the asthma is priceless ;-).
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/realestate/24hunt.html?pagewanted=2&sq=One Brooklyn Bridge Park&st=cse&scp=7
ab...You may well be right in your argument about the price direction at this place, but..come on,,,citing august 2008 purchases as proof of anything about today going forward is dubious. Muster some better arguments, and I am sure there are some.
Gator, these boards are useless. Any attempt at sharing info or actual experience from people who live here is invariably drowned out by people who don't. I gave up a few weeks ago, you should too.
"so, unlike you, i can renovate the place and flip it if i want to and make 20-30%."
You lost credibility then and there.
"This board really has become largely a waste of time. It is inhabited by mostly uncompromising bears that unrelentingly descend upon anyone who thinks that a property can be succesful or who thinks that there are situations in which one is a sensible buyer."
Otherwise known as "jealous renters" who were never able to scrape together a suitable down payment.
bjw2103, i have a short sale that i'm working with. my friend is looking for the same place just doesn't want to bother renovating and is willing to pay 20-30% more after all of the costs to me. this is not a myth. OBBP breaking even if buying right now, within the next 10 yrs, IS.
jim, 2 years ago some people purchased. we're 2 years later and they still can't get to 50% and are not even close yet. the prices have only one way to go. everyone who wanted or not, have seen this place by visiting or in numerous articles. it didn't help any.
Gator claims that he wouldn't believe what RAL says, yet he ignores facts. The Attorney General has a file on RAL. That 0ne million dollar restitution that RAL paid to Franklin Tower, was mediated by The Office Of The Attorney General. If it had gone to litigation, it would have had media coverage. RAL paid, and then ran. He swept the matter under the rug, where other facts can also be found.
Sorry that it causes you so much pain, Gator. Facts are facts.
As for not believing a word that I say: That's your choice.
If I posted comments about the other facts that I know about RAL, Gator will blow a gasket! He sure did get his knickers in a twist, over my comment (for a person who couldn't care less.)
I'm not a bear. I'm not a renter. I am who I say I am. I know what I know. But,I'm not trying to chase Gator off this site. That he would work himself into such a tizzy,is not my fault.
Maybe he's just upset that he's not able to get the RAL Free Parking Space Deal (it's available for females only).
Somewhereelse: Actually, nobody heard about RAL before he reinvented himself as a Developer. He was just an architect, working for Waldbaum's (supermarkets). You'd think he could whip up a market, of some kind, for OBBP.
Truth, that the AG has a file on a real estate developer is just mindblowing. I'm sure that is the first and last time that has ever happened. You sure he didn't design brakes for Toyota in a prior life?
ab_11218, sorry, but if you're claiming you can flip this place that quickly for 20-30%, sounds like you've found a total sucker or you're kidding yourself. It's especially jarring when you're claiming 1BBP prices will collapse. So other people's purchases will be disasters but yours will be quite the success? Color me skeptical.
Well,spieler: If you moved into your new multi-million dollar condo; only to find out that the windows were leaking, the fireproofing isulation was not up to code, the a/c system was leaking, and the bricks on the building's facade were loose:
Which cut-corner would bother you the most? It's the seriousness and scope of the mess.
Gator: If you enjoy living at OBBP., then it's good for you.
15 years is a long time to wait to see if OBBP turned out to be a good investment for you.
A lot of life happens during that time span. You may need to move, sooner.
If you needed to move, right now or in the near future; how much could you sell your condo for?
Would you be able to sell it, at all?
Good luck, Gator. Hope it works out for you.
We have been interested in OBB, but definitely have concerns about the prices, even after recent reductions.
For those who have recently closed/gone into contract, how much below asking are they accepting (if at all)? Also, I have heard different things about whether they are holding buyer's to pay full closing costs or whether they are paying some of it. Any light you can shed on that would be great. Thanks.
There seems to be very little negotiation on price once they reduced. I negotiated 10k off the asking-granted they had just cut the price from an overpriced 1.040 million to 660k on my nit! I do think they are being stubborn but from what I hear they aren't budging more yet. I also negotiated 6 months of common charges (the broker mentioned this on my first tour) and well as the majority of my closing costs).
Did they offer you an Audi?
Some units here appear to be about 500psf. Are people thinking it will go lower than that?. I think it's interesting to start comparing the ppsf in various areas with buildings that are sort of pricing to sell. THat appears to be 550-650 in wmburg (w11,70berry). Someone said 500psf in east harlem.
Just reviewed my contract this weekend with my attorney. I believe it depends on the particular unit with regards to how much they are willing to negotiate the price. With my unit there was no negotiation on price as it had one of the highest price reductions to begin with. They will be covering some of our closing costs as well as common charges for a period of time.
If you are truly interested in a unit it is worth submitting an offer with any desired concessions. Then see if they accept it our counter it. In the contract we had it state that if we don't get a mortgage, we get our deposit back. We will be signing.
what price psf?
what else did you consider?...
REading through this all the acrimony is distracting.
I would be uncomfortable buying into a building that is only 1/3 sold if the developer hasn't lowered prices to a level that will fairly quickly sell it out because if the policy is a slow and patient strategy it is obviously vulnerable to a cave-in at some point, greatly reducing prices below what you paid, or perhaps worse, some kind of bankruptcy or going rental for the remainder, all of which would also reduce the resale value of your unit. So...in such a situation, I think you need to be really comfortable that the building is at a market clearing pricing level within some reasonable time period. Is that how you buyers feel? Do I misstate the risks? In short...can they sell the place at X ppsf?
My unit is ~550psf. I see it for the long term as I will now have a space that both my wife and I personally love and is big enough for our small family. There is no need for us to look for anything bigger. 1430 sq ft is completely adequate for us. I am seriously thinking long long term.
Risk. Everyone has there own level of tolerance. As I said, I am not going to be going anywhere for a long time and I have been looking for a long time for the right place. We live in the area now and have not found a single other unit in Brooklyn Heights / Cobble Hill / Carroll Gardens (the areas we are looking in) that we like, is big enough, and is at the right price. So we feel very comfortable with our decision.
We have have friends in the area, our child has friends in the area and goes to school here, and we are very fond of these neighborhoods. So for us, it was the right choice. We know another family that feels the same and is looking to place an offer as well.
I'd be interested to hear what others think, but barring a dangerous neighborhood, I think being not too far outsude Man. with decent transportation (ie not a long commute to man.) that 600psf or below sounds reasonable for new constr, meaning, not some crazy bubble price. Perhaps if the areas are overbuilt then prices could go lower, but I don't see it as paying in inherently crazy price. I think buying any condo in manh. at 1000psf or more is riskier, but that's just my feeling.
And I think it depends partly on how low Manh. is really going to go, anytime soon (when people start talking two or more years out, I think the predictions are meaningless and hardly worth contemplating because so many things could go wrong or right in the meantime).
> Otherwise known as "jealous renters" who were never able to scrape together a suitable down payment.
1) Renters aren't jealous. They sorta sitting on the top of the world at this point in time.
2) The acrimony seems to come from the bitter bubble buyers who are tired of being told "I told you so"
3) This is actually a way overpriced project in a sea of plain old overpriced projects. This isn't getting attention because "everything" does, this is one particularly well polished turd. In a bubble, it still managed to WAAAAY outprice almost all of Brooklyn, even though its in a marginal location.
"Renters aren't jealous. They sorta sitting on the top of the world at this point in time."
Way overstating the case. People have different needs, but unless you're fairly transient, I think most people prefer owning vs renting, all else equal, so even though the pricing part of the equation might not compute for you right now, if you're a renter and want to own, there's still work to be done, so to speak. Given the uncertainties going forward, I'd hardly call that "sitting on top of the world." Is it better than having way overpaid for a place? Sure. But let's call it what it is. I haven't polled, but I'd bet that perma-renters make up a very small percentage of this board.
"this is one particularly well polished turd"
Have you toured the place? I'm sure you'll say you have, for the sake of argument, but I find your assessment pretty uninformed. I'm stunned at the sale that just took place (see the link mentioned above: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/realestate/07deal1.html) for nearly $900 psf, but clearly this is more desirable/valuable than you think.
I've seen the apartments, and they are absolutely beautiful. The prices does not bother me, but I am curious about the CCs... b/c you are paying for the development and future maintenance of the park, I wonder how much they will go up every year.
"There seems to be very little negotiation on price once they reduced. I negotiated 10k off the asking-granted they had just cut the price from an overpriced 1.040 million to 660k on my nit! I do think they are being stubborn but from what I hear they aren't budging more yet. I also negotiated 6 months of common charges (the broker mentioned this on my first tour) and well as the majority of my closing costs)"
jocoru, negotiating cc's for 6 months and closing costs is great.
jocoru and kg2... can I ask which lines you are buying? I am interested in 43, 02, and 05.
hopingtobuy: I am under contract for 525. I think the 02 line is now sold out (I considered upgrading to this yesterday) but the 43 line looks great and all but the 4th floor are avail- I am going to look on Friday. Good luck.
jocoru: I was just there on Sunday for open houses, and there were still 02s available except 502 and 702! Going back on Saturday for a private appt. If what you're saying is true, I am truly bummed!
I also liked the 02's.
Hopingtobuy, are the 43's and 05's also 2 brs? Where do they face?
We've looked before and they've told us what's available, but does anyone else think they are not being fully forthright as to all the units availability?
jdf: 43s face courtyard south and 05s are corner units facing SE. They are both 2/2s. As to the availibility, the list they give you at the open house is 2 pages, the list the broker carries with him is many pages long. If you tell him what you are interested in (cost, sqft, bedrooms, etc), he scans his entire list and shows you what they have.
"I'd be interested to hear what others think, but barring a dangerous neighborhood, I think being not too far outsude Man. with decent transportation (ie not a long commute to man.) that 600psf or below sounds reasonable for new constr,I'd be interested to hear what others think, but barring a dangerous neighborhood, I think being not too far outsude Man. with decent transportation (ie not a long commute to man.) that 600psf or below sounds reasonable for new constr, meaning, not some crazy bubble price. Perhaps if the areas are overbuilt then prices could go lower, but I don't see it as paying in inherently crazy price. I think buying any condo in manh. at 1000psf or more is riskier, but that's just my feeling.
I have friends who bought new construction at $400 psf in park slope. And plenty of other neighborhoods fit that bill. What's the 4th avenue stuff going for now? $500 psf? $400 psf? $600 psf sounds crazy.
If its only to meet your criteria, $600 psf is *waaay* too high in my book.
Does that mean some neighborhoods aren't work more? Of course not. Some are more desirable, more convenient, bla bla. DUMBO, pick your "prime" brooklyn neighborhood.
But this neighborhood is certainly not in that tier, yet is pricing as if it was...
Does that mean some neighborhoods aren't work more? Of course not. Some are more desirable, more convenient, bla bla. DUMBO, Brooklyn Heights, pick your "prime" brooklyn neighborhood.
hopingtobuy, we are in contract with unit #713.
We just got our offer accepted. May I know which attorney did you use? One attorney that I reached out to quoted me $2000.Thought it was a little high...