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ar - re: your response the other day, I am also heartened by recent trends. While I am a very big fan of SE support and sympathize with their desire not to be burdened with babysitting the discussion boards when they could be out building the business, the hfs/county thing went on far longer than should have been allowed. You were left in an impossible position - responding feeds the troll, not responding is intolerable and leaving means the troll gets what he wants.
On "running" the board, let me just suggest that one is not always in the ideal position to appreciate how one is perceived by others. As recently as a week ago, spinnaker1, typically a reasonable poster and non-partisan in the troll wars, was after you on this point. Personally, I disagree with him and think you have been measured and moderate in post volume and tone post-"farewell" and return. However, there was a time when I would have found his comment to be spot on, and I don't think I would have been alone in that sentiment.
"there are trolls of different natures...and those who will do anything in their power to discredit a given individual or point of view, regardless of the accuracy of their "proof" or convictions" I was just curious whether you had anyone specific in mind here and whether you think that this definition of trolling should be applied consistently based on behavior fitting the definition.
While the experts debate the intracacies of trollism, on the topic of multiple names, last night dwell and apt23 posted at 200 am, within a minute of each other, on two different comp threads. .....
sls, i appreciate what you have written. there are times when i can't stand myself on this board.
but i am trying. and will continue to do so. troll control, if it is continued, should lead to continued improvement, a reduction in my blood pressure, and hopefully a greater measure of civility.
as to your last paragraph, i don't think anything can be done without a degree of censorship that most of us would find uncomfortable. i have no desire to see even those i vehemently disagree with "trolled." i have appreciated, however, the surgical repair of a number of recent threads that contained bizarre personal slurs.
buyerbuyer, nice try. i've met them both.
I agree that two people posting to similar threads at off-hours is odd, but dwell and apt23 have both been at meetups, in public places, with scores of SE people meeting them. Both very attractive people, they look very different from one another.
Ok, guys, I hear you. (If they've been seen simultaneously and are both women then I guess that rules out the cross-dresser thing, which was an issue on here once, as I recall).
is there a xmas get together?
SLS -- What exactly does "running the board" mean? Seems like you and spinnaker (I know you disagree with him on recent trends) want to be the arbiters of how much volume is "just right." If a poster is making contributions and is not being abusive, why can't he or she post as much as he or she likes? (Of course, I am excepting off-topic, non-ending political threads.) You seem like a reasonable sort and I am sure your post was meant in the right vein (and was taken rather well(, but I find it to be more than a little off-putting that you are making yourself the style council. But, I hasten to add that I am new to the board and may not know all the history.
according to SE, over 300 accounts for the troll. not including the two above.
this is a person with a problem
I've been attacked by the troll recently (nopigsorshrimp) so I don't know what you are talking about. As for buyerbuyer -- no idea whether that person has anything to do with the troll, but it wasn't listed as one of the troll aliases by SE. However, nothing seems to persuade you otherwise. If I were a troll, my acount would be disable or my comments greyed out.
MidE - you are correct that there is some history here. You can find some of it 6 posts down this thread in SE's own words - http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/21960-farewell?page=2. SE's comment about 12,000 posts would be one answer to your "why can't he or she post as much as he or she likes?".
But my focus is not on volume, it's on tone. There was a long while when a group of posters, of which aboutready was the most visible but not (at all) the worst, undertook to hound anyone who disagreed with them on either RE market issues (e.g., by being insufficently bearish - a.k.a., anything less than rabidly bearish) or politics off the board. There was a tendency to do the hounding in packs (which I guess is how real hounds hunt!) and with a condescending tone that suggested an attitude of, "We're the regulars, this is our board and if you disagree you aren't welcome here." I believe that spinnaker used the term "self-righteous" the other day, although, again, I would not currently agree with that characterization.
While my own views on the RE market (objectively bearish, but not dogmatically so, and open to reevaluation based on data) and politics are actually in the vicinity of those of aboutready and her pals, over time I found the thought police approach and middle school cool kids/in-crowd behavior to be off-putting, so I started to speak up about it. Since I have been known to be a bit sarcastic from time to time, the manner in which I spoke up sometimes got the thought police somewhat agitated, which I found to be a pleasing side effect of making my point. In recent months, I think that thought police activity has been down as some people post less (and differently) and columbiacounty has been "trolled" by SE support for a long time, which sort of takes the edge of his relentless and tiresome attack posts.
The exception to the decline in thought policing is in the reflexive "you're the troll" accusations that get thrown around so easily these days when the cool kids disagree with someone. As an example of how confusing that gets, I made a sarcastic post the other day joking that you, I and a bunch of others had recently been revealed to be manifestations of the troll. I think you missed the sarcarm part, because you posted a very sharp response (absolutely warranted based on your understanding of my post, I might add) that now seems to have disappeared (odd?!).
So that's where I am coming from. I imagine that there is little in this post that those I have accused of being the thought police will agree with. I'll just say that I don't think SE support was missing a whole lot in the comments that I linked to at the beginning of this post.
SLS -- You seem like a thoughtful person and I can sort of see your issue, but the answer is for you to stick to your guns and not just label other posters "self-righteous" if they agree with you. Even if you are being ganged up on, the answer is to defend yourself (you appear capable) rather than squelching others.
Plus,that post you cited doesn't help your case. It was truly obnoxious for SE to say, in response to someone being abused by trolls, "good riddance and take your friends with you." I hope that is not your attitude. I think you are just asking people to listen. However, as someone else said, this is New York; people get into scraps and get pretty tough. As long as it doesn't get abusive, the best answer is to give as good as you get as opposed to trying to cow people into not participating. But, again, you seem like a decent sort so I am not going to impute that behavior to you.
about 2 hours ago
ignore this person
The troll creates many accounts. Sometimes he's creative with the names. We have removed more than 300 of his accounts recently. Some he posted from just a few times, others were regulars. Some he left as "sleeper" accounts, so he could post from "old" accounts.
Just a few: nopigsorshrimp, bslotkin, splaken, reallypissed, vornaise, debfrank, Poster, tomlawner, Maxsfisher, komo, ootin, omg, rule109g, pitishiro
SLS and others: I was not pleased when SE said that I was, among others, part of the SNR issue because I posted too much. I do not respond to trolls, I try to keep conversation on-topic and on RE. Maybe I flatter myself, but I think that 2-3 years ago, I am part of the reason that others keep getting drawn to SE msg boards for RE chatter.
Yes, that's the SE post I was referring to.
Not flattering yourself at all. I was surprised to see you in the high-volume list, but it seemed to cover a wide range. Riversider at more than the next ten combined, but SE didn't say how those ten tallied relative to one another.
SE's lost-patience posts are rare but pretty good. I'm saving up "drivel-spew" for use elsewhere.
Since the goal of any good website is to make it sticky, the 217 posts on this thread alone suggest that HFS "benefits" Easy Street.
How many of these posts come from hfs? Yours for sure.
If this deviant just got caught with 300 identities, how many more are lurking?
Tell us riversider.
MidE - I appreciate you sharing your perspective, especially coming from someone not burdened by biases built up through all the legacy discussion board intramurals, and will take it under advisement. I was confused about a couple of statements.
First, ""It was truly obnoxious for SE to say, in response to someone being abused by trolls, "good riddance and take your friends with you." " - I agree that it would have been obnoxious of SE support to say/mean this, if in fact they had done so. However, they only make a passing initial reference to "the troll" and spend the bulk of their post on broader issues. I read it more like, "Yes, there is this troll issue, but let's not let it obscure all the other issues." They only come back to trolls when they get to the extreme cases of comm/county and columbiacounty near then end.
Second, "the best answer is to give as good as you get as opposed to trying to cow people into not participating" - You may have misunderstood my post. I have never tried to cow anyone into not participating. Rather, I have tried to get certain people whose modus operandi was cowing others into not participating to participate differently. And yes, making that point usually involves trying to give (at least) as good as I get.
And MidE - on the same thread that I linked to, there is another long SE support post about 40 posts down from the one I cited. Lots more about the issues on the board. Very little about trolls. Nothing like "good riddance and take your friends with you." Really
Also, are your posts at the very bottom of the same thread your first appearance on SE? If so, what an introduction! That thread had a lot of inside baseball among people, myself included, bringing their baggage from SE debates gone by.
why are you continuing this dialogue with the troll.
first appearance on SE on the troll thread? really.
"While my own views on the RE market (objectively bearish, but not dogmatically so, and open to reevaluation based on data) and politics are actually in the vicinity of those of aboutready and her pals, over time I found the thought police approach and middle school cool kids/in-crowd behavior to be off-putting, so I started to speak up about it. Since I have been known to be a bit sarcastic from time to time, the manner in which I spoke up sometimes got the thought police somewhat agitated, which I found to be a pleasing side effect of making my point. In recent months, I think that thought police activity has been down as some people post less (and differently) and columbiacounty has been "trolled" by SE support for a long time, which sort of takes the edge of his relentless and tiresome attack posts."
sideline, this sums up my feelings as well as I can imagine. Thanks. Here's hoping for the continued improvement of this board.
one small difference:
sls is generally as he presents himself
despite that sls "sums up" bj's feelings as well as bj "can imagine" their behaviors on the board are completely different
bj engages in right wing trolling generally, as well as aggressive pack-trolling of steve--steve holds up quite well, i might add, given the mechanical, negative reaction he inspires--he seems amused by the constant attention from the "dopes"
to read bj's sanctimony crap in the face of his acrimony amuses me
SLS -- Not sure I buy everything you are selling because it was clumsy of SE to criticize the posters that make intelligent observations here, but your comments seem to be coming from a constructive point of view that I appreciate, which is to move things in the right direction. Gauging from what others are reporting about troll removal, things are improving. I think the thread you are referring to might have been my first one and I saw there (or somewhere else) the reprehensible stuff that hones and others were posting about people. The one thing I can't shake is Columbia County's view that I am a troll alter ego, but there is no way I can change his mind so I have given up trying (which is his cue to say "liar" or something similar).
how long have you been here?
We have a winner!
this is funny. i've been away for damn near two full weeks. no computer, no blackberry, nada. i log in for the first time this evening, and all of you are talking about the same nonsense, trying to convince yourselves of the same things. unbelievable.
wide-bottom, i do remember you distinctly stating you were done with this over two weeks ago. what gives?
You were away with Nada for two weeks? Scandalous.
he's a suprisingly good travel companion.
Wbottom, wow, what gives with the aggression? I don't claim to read all your posts, but seems like most of your shtick is shameless attacks, none of which have even been entertaining. You're the first person to ever call me "right wing" so I have no idea where you're getting your information. My questioning of Steve (and it was just that - questioning him until he answered, which took forever unfortunately) is nowhere near what you seem to be engaging in now. I merely agreed with what sideline posted - if that bugs you, tough cookies.
"Tough cookies'? Watch the foul language, please.
Hey Jimmy, welcome back. Since you seem to be dismissing the issue again, can you clarify this post of yours which was amongst the first you ever made:
"i really think that this board would be a better place without: west67th, columbiacounty and aboutready. i would settle for anyone of the three finding a new hobby but all three would be most ideal.
i am not a new poster...i am an old poster sick of all of your antics
i am a real estate professional (if that matters at all)
i do seek and ocassionally try and give guidance on this board, but find all three of you beyond intolerable"
Under what other name did you post? Why did you feel the need to change your name? What was the reason behind the vendetta against the three? Do you have a Wanted poster with shadow outlines of how you imagine their profiles to be? Will you just ignore the questions, call me a loser, and dismiss these questions as nonsense despite your visiting & commenting on this thread?
nada, i've answered this many many times. find those threads, and post them.