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Curious about the views from the east-facing units? Is the BQE really an issue or once you go high enough in the building the BQE becomes less of a factor. I think the views of BH are actually pretty nice. Don't you guys think that at a $250/sqft discount to the river facing units the BQE-facing units are actually a decent deal?
It's not just a BH view that gets you $250/sf discount. Pollution (soot!), noise(trucks at night!), future construction project on BQE, etc etc. Most recent news: the park will take years & years to build (a large part of it remains unfunded)... if the works don't get totally stalled.
Of course the sames "issues" that buybye describes are the same that many buildings in DUMBO confront. Doesn't seem to be a problem there. I own an east-facing unit at OBBP on the eigth floor and the BQE is simply not an issue. 2323 you are correct that for floors 7 and above the BQE simply isn't an issue. Any noise at night is more a white noise and actually better than I experienced on other blocks in center Brooklyn Heights (that Fresh Direct, garbage or delivery truck can be REALLY loud). I installed Citiquiet windows (principally for heat control as the morning sun can be blazing) and my apt is now blissly quiet. As for pollution, the prevailing wind comes over the water from west to east so the "pollution" is no more than the rest of the Heights. But the east facing views is a truly great, enviable view. I would have loved a Manhattan and Brooklyn Bridge view, but not for an additional $400k.
As for the Park, another portion of Pier 6 is opening in a few weeks (it looks great), and the next Pier to open will be Pier 5 on the other side of the building (which is fully funded). So yes the entire Park may take quite a few years to complete, but the portions most relevant to OBBP are fully funded and will be completed within the next 2 years. Also, the retail space in OBBP has started to move with 3 leases signed recently (a wine store, pet/grooming store and a coffee place).
2323 - You should understand, as a general rule, any owner's biased assessment of his/her own property should be taken with caution. Gator, in particular, seemingly has never missed a single thread to post about his "great" eastern exposure not only on SE but also on Brownstoner etc. It's become quite an obsession for him, which, unfortunately, only proves a lack of confidence & inner inferiority.
A more objective gauge would be: why the estern units don't move faster despite a considerable discount? Deduct some common sense from the market...
buybye, I think you're projecting a bit. gator's a fan - he bought in the building because he likes it, not the other way around. I'm not sure how posting about his building proves a "lack of confidence & inner inferiority." To answer your question though, I'd guess those units aren't moving due to the perceived negatives that you shared. Sometimes perception does not quite line up with the truth, but perception is nonetheless the more popular take - it's unfortunate for sellers and such, but if you're looking for a home and not as concerned about the resale, it might be worth a look.
bjw- You could be right. I don't know gator in person. But it's just a bit tiring & boring to come across the same person posting the same thing repetitively on all the threads related to OBBP or the park proper everywhere...
Also, discrepancy in his self-defense-like argument is abundant. Like noise is no-issue but he installed citiQUIET windows... Principally for heat control? For that purpose, you could apply film to the windows or just use 3% shades or blackout curtains, not citiQUIET. BTW, the owners on the BQE side never open their windows? How about on a nice day like today? Doesn't sound like my kind of reason to relocate to Brooklyn.
buybye, I hear you. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but you may well be right. 1BBP isn't for me, but I get how it can appeal to some. I do like to open my windows. That would be tough to give up.
so, gator bought at a price that is already 10% lower... he had to spend what??? 50K to get new windows not to hear the highway that he stated before he could not hear. he will never be able to open his windows to get fresh air and will have to pay dearly to run his HVAC system.
on the other hand, once the BQE construction starts, even those expensive windows will not help removing the constant noise of construction.
In the interest of full disclosure, I've bought on the 3rd floor East facing. The entire East facing wing on the 3rd and 4th floors is now sold out, there is one unit on the resale market on the 3rd floor that's been a rental unit since purchased. There was a second unit for resale on the 4th floor that was pulled off the market at some point, the owners who occupied the unit were having a child. I believe they worked something out with the sponsor to move into a larger unit.
I've spent a lot of time in BQE facing units from the 3rd to 8th floors both before and after we bought.
The windows on the 3rd floor unit leak no 'black dust'. We have white shades which would show any such dirt/dust, and have no problems. The sound during the day and at night is white noise on the 3rd floor and is basically the same at higher floors. We open our windows and have fresh air, and are able to vent the warmth from the Eastern facing sun that warms the place up.
Everyone has to make the call about what works for them in terms of numbers. My understanding is that there are no two bedrooms units available on either the East or West side, rather there are corner courtyard units available. The remainder have sold.
I can tell you based on my personal experience from living in Willowtown (that part of Brooklyn Heights that's nearest the river).
My brownstone was not close to the BQE (certainly not right NEXT to it like this building is) and I used to avoid opening my windows at all because of the soot problem.
Matt- the wind blows off the water and into the Heights. We had worse issues with soot on Henry and Joralemon.
juuce.. what you're forgetting is the 1BBP is blocking most of the wind that comes from the water as the building is large. i want to see you come back here in a few yrs and say "i had my windows open for 100 days out of the year and i still don't have asthma."
i think smoking a pack a day will be better for you then keeping your window open facing the BQE.
"Building Wealth Through Renting
By DAVID LEONHARDT
Yes, building equity is a good thing. But the advantages of it are exaggerated.
For one thing, how do you know you’ll be building equity, as opposed to making an investment that will lose money? People who bought in Florida, Las Vegas, Phoenix and much of inland California in 2006 thought they would be building equity. I interviewed some of them. But they did not. In many cases, they lost all of their equity. There is definitely some downside risk in the New York market today.
Second, by buying a house, you’re making a decision to tie up your capital in a specific sector — real estate. It’s entirely possible that the money you spent on a down payment would have earned more money in the stock market, for instance.
Finally, buying also involves throwing thousands of dollars down a hole: in mortgage fees and interest, in property taxes, in repairs and renovations, in tens of thousands of dollars of closing costs. Renting doesn’t involve the huge up-front costs that buying does. Owning also involves some continuing costs (e.g. repairs) that renting does not.
Living somewhere is always going to involve costs, just as education, health care and food involve costs. Financially, the decision to buy is basically a decision that your investment will increase in value by an amount sufficient to make up for all the additional costs of buying. (Put it this way: you’d never buy an apartment if you were staying in a city for just a week, in an effort to build equity. You’d rent — a hotel room.)
Sometimes — often — the decision to buy works out. But it does not work out far more often than is commonly understood."
ab, let's commission the study. You get the Marlboro Reds, and juuce has to keep his windows open for 3.5 months. Then we'll have you guys do a lap around Central Park.
So let me get this straight. The posters who want to incessantly criticize a building can post all they want, but someone tries to bring a different perspective to the unrelenting negativity is tiresome? Buybye, why aren't all the posters who are on every thread tearing down the building tiresome? At least I have always been honest and open that I am an owner in the building. Sure that means I may have a bias, but it also means that I have first hand information where most people posting about this building have virtually none. 2323 should understand that many of the negative posters’ assessments should also be taken with a great degree of caution as they often have their own agendas and biases that are never disclosed. I do get on most threads because I do feel a certain obligation to bring balance to the discussion. 2323 had a question and I tried to answer it openly and honestly.
Now with respect to some of the specifics, this perception that the east-facing units have not sold well is simply unfounded. More East facing units have been sold than courtyard units (those in the H) or Harbor facing units and by a good measure. The market has not been put off by the presence of the BQE (they weren’t in DUMBO either).
As for my Citiquiet windows, I hate window films. I don't like the tint, the look, etc. and it would have been a real pain in the ass given the multi-frame windows at OBBP. I did install Citiquiet for heat control and they have worked great in that regard. But, no doubt, I also like the additional sound control benefit they provide. But that would have been true of almost every apartment I have rented (Upper East Side, Upper West Side, Brooklyn Heights). Also, people with East-facing units do open their windows and I do on occasion. But I generally prefer AC as without cross-ventilation open windows don't do much.
As for ab_11218 (one of the posters certainly fits buybye’s description of those who it is "tiring & boring to come across . . . posting the same thing repetitively on all the threads related to OBBP"), you just keep getting it wrong on all counts. Units similar to mine are selling at about 17.5% MORE than what I paid. I paid less than $15k for my Citiquiet windows which again were purchased due to the heat from the fantastic morning to early afternoon sun I get. The additional sound insulation is nice though but I would NOT have installed them but for the heat/UV. I do open my windows occasionally, particularly at night. And lastly, my electric bills were quite reasonable last summer for a unit my size (never above $250) and I run my HVAC cold.
Sorry Streeteasy, but these boards have become a bastion of negativity were every building sucks and is overpriced. Sense and reason have abandoned your boards. To all buyers who view these boards, don’t let the negativity you may read dissuade you from making your own assessment. Go see the property so that you can separate fact from fiction for yourself. Because there is a hell of a lot of fiction on these boards.
And all brokers and agents are crooks and Alan is a big ol' queen!
Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond. I guess it's a matter of taste. I do think it ultimately comes down to price. The harbor facing units are obviously better, however, the relevant question is if the river views are worth $400K or $250/sqft. The issue I have with the river facing units is that they are getting closer to Manhattan territory in terms of price per square foot. At 650/sqft (for east facing)the only alternatives are in Brooklyn and correct me if I am wrong but there aren't too many nice buildings in the good areas of Brooklyn where you can buy at that price. For example, at Love Lane Mews (nice building but felt too suburban for my taste), I believe the prices are around $1000K and obviously no river views (no BQE exposure either). Also, it seems like at 600-650 a foot, the downside is limited which is not necessarily the case for a 950/sqft apt facing the river.
Truth on the board here.
Did the 2-year loan extension expire?
RAL is in forclosure on his Telluride properties.
At least one of the contractors that worked on OBBP was busted in that recent mafia mob round-up.
If that guy tells the Feds the things he knows about RAL, pollution and views will be the least of the problems there.
Gator will nail RAL.
It's been 2 hours.
Once again, the Truth results in a sudden silence on this topic.
Google the big mafia bust. The Feds rounded them up and herded them into Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn.
Now go to the "Gambino family".
Then check the names of their "associates".
If any of you really know how to do research, you will find out which Gambino "family" member.
It's 8:45 pm. Thursday. May 12th, 2011.
Nothin' from nobody here.
That's what the Truth will do.
2323, there is nothing even close to OBBP at $600-650/sq ft and I agree that the downside is limited at that price. Prices should continue to firm as the bulding continues to sell and the risk premium continues to shift. Financing options also have increased. Good luck with your decision.
Yeah, the developper is running a charity offering an incredible low price for a product whose "downside is limited". But why these deals can still be had close to 2 years after a drastic 35% price chop, or more than 4 years after the building opened for sale?
Maybe the majority in the market are just not as smart as the handful of BQE facing units buyers. And each one of them seems just smarter than the next:
The 8th floor says - "Once you go above fl 7, BQE is not an issue".
The 3rd floor says - I spent a LOT of time from 3rd to 8th fl. "...the 3rd fl is basically the same at higher floors".
Their units are good but cheap, and cheap/cheaper for no valid reasons... Amazing!
leom, nice of you to show up. Another of the cast of OBBP butchers. Casting aspersions again I see.
Why was there a 35% price chop and why are there still units left to sell after four years? Uh, to quote a phrase "it's the economy stupid." OBBP is not unique to price cuts, happened at virtually all condos after the real estate market fundamentally changed or don't you recall that (of course you do...you purchase a unit at the foreclosure called Forte). There are units left because the buyer pool is markedly smaller and OBBP is a very large building. Of course, having sold approximatley 240 units, OBBP has already sold more units than most buildings have. But you only want to compare OBBP to the bygone days. Nice perspective.
Handful of BQE facing unit buyers? Wrong. The facts are available right here on Streeteasy. Look at the closing records and you know you are wrong. Several of the BQE side floors are sold out.
And floors 3-6 were not my cup of tea. But I know several owners that live in those units and they all love their apartments and the deal they got.
I know why I post on a OBBP thread, why do you leom?
Maybe leom is yet another in a long line of people who was done dirty by RAL.
It's a long list.
RAL is a SOB.
But RAL is good--there are those who were done dirty and seem not to know it--or maybe they do??
RAL used to be good at being bad. For decades.
He had friends doing him favors: covering his tracks, saving his butt.
He did all of his friends dirty -- now he has no friends left.
And one of those former friends was also a business associate -- of RAL and the Gambino family.
He already did a stretch of time in prison and now he's got info that the Feds will cut a deal with him for. He knows RAL did him dirty.
RAL could never last a day in prison. They would take away his silk undies.
No art collection to surround him. No "5 or 6 cars" to drive. Forget about the several homes.
No more nice fancy clothes.
No friends to visit him in prison -- he has none left.
The Gambino family: Not known for fine workmanship in the building trade.
BQE facing units at OBBP are simply bad & cheap per se. Does one need to hate RAL to post here? LOL...
Thx for kicking off a lighthearted weekend for me. I also wish a good one to All.
1132 w. triple waterview on fl 11
Gator - Hope this can help you better guestimate the true market value of your triple BQE on a lower fl. Compare the rent w. your monthly carrying cost, taking into account the fact the Department of Finance lowered the value of the property by roughly 25% in 2010. Save us your +17.5% joke.
To be fair, 1132 is indeed slightly smaller than your unit, the layout is precisely mirror image though. Perfect comp.
I am neither a buyer, owner nor hater of 1 bbp. But I can say that the waterfront is going to continue to improve, and 1 bbp and the actual park are such a tremendous improvement over what was there before. Noise? Pollution? Welcome to New York. Right now it's the only building directly on the waterfront. Sure you can bag on the original asking price but the actual development has met expectations.
great analysis leom..."BQE facing units at OBBP are simply bad & cheap per se." Same must be true of BQE facing units in Dumbo except that it isn't. And there are 9 floors of BQE facing units. Is the eighth floor the same as the third floor? Of course not and they were priced accordingly. But you take the simpleton view of lumping everything together.
As for the 17.5% it's no joke, it's simple math and not a guesstimate. I don't need to go through your calculus. It's much easier than that. I bought my unit for $557/sq. ft. and similar units in the building are being sold presently by the sponsor for approx. $680. The closing records don't lie.
And leom you really should know that the assessed valued of a property has nothing to do with the actual market value of the units. It's a value used for tax purposes nothing more and nothing less. So the reduction in value of the building, which the sponsor's attorney was involved in negotiating, was a benefit to OBBP because it reduces taxes.
Peter2, thanks much for trying to inject some objectivity into this thread. I agree with your astute observations.
"Of course the sames "issues" that buybye describes are the same that many buildings in DUMBO confront."
Not really. Make that not even close.
DUMBO has become a neighborhood in between the BQE and water. 1bbp is a fairly isolated building because of the bqe.
They aren't dismantling the bqe in dumbo like they plan in BHH (where they have to replace it)
The bqe is also MUCH higher in BH than in Dumbo. In washington, its one story up, and that's it. In BH, you're talking a "wall" several stories high.
Also, in DUMBO, the openings are on just about every block. In BH, you go blocks and blocks without a pass through (I've driven it many times).
Also, the fact that the bqe is connected to bridges to me is much more attractive, than it making up a huge wall effectively.
Yes, dirt, smog, of course. But, in DUMBO, remember these would be the worse buildings. Better apartments are like in 1 main, much further from BQE. 1BBP, its the ONLY building we're talking about, and it is trying to chage top dollar...
$680 * 1442 = 980k. Put your triple BQE exposed unit on the market right now, Gator. Buyers will kill each other to pay more than 1 mm (taxes & transaction costs) for it! :)
Speaking of closing record, only 2bd 2bth on the corners (double exposure, much better layout, with either southern Liberty view or northern Manhattan view, like 41, 04 lines) sold in the high $600/sf. Courtyard view units, which always have been more expensive than BQE side, are right now in contract at barely $600 (eg. unit 725). And we don't know how much they are negotiated down yet!
I never thought you were this naive...
I don't live in NY b/c it's clean. But I don't have to live right next to a huge source of pollution & noise neither. I love parks & improvement but not greedy developpers & suckers. Sorry, too much subjectivity here. :)
Regarding the lowered assessed value, unfortunately, it only provides a very marginal benefit for taxes in OBBP's case b/c it has a long-term abatement (the reason why the carrying costs are high in spite of abated taxes is landlease etc, but that's another story).
Take unit 725 as an exemple again: monthly taxes are $90. Sorry, an extra 25% off doesn't get you any life changing savings here...
On the other hand, the sponsor's attorney would have had a hard time getting a considerable 25% down if the real value at OBBP had not diminished markedly.
Ha, the sponsor or the sponsor's attorney tells you so! Use your head or your iPhone calculator, man!!!
i wander into to reading this thread from time to time..and try to see any vague logig that buying here would be sensible..and then i remember this building is a
FOCKING LAND LEASE!!!
and i stop reading
leom, backpedal much? Spend $15 and get the closing info on the buildings as the contract information on streeteasy is useless for OBBP (OBBP does not report that info to Streeteasty). I'll do it for you:
Unit 706 sold for $703/sq ft. It's a one bedroom east-facing (BQE) unit.
Unit 906 sold for $722/sq ft. Same as 706 but two floors up.
Unit 809 sold for $652/sq ft. It's also a one bedroom ("home office") east-facing unit.
Unit 717 sold for $655/sq ft. It's a one bedroom east-facing unit.
Unit 805 sold for $689/sq ft. It's a 2bd 2bth corner unit with east and south exposures (southern view may be blocked by future buldings).
Unit 843 sold for $697/sq ft. It's a 2bd 2bth courtyard unit.
Unit 822 sold for $681/sq ft. It's 2bd 2bth interior courtyard unit about the same size as mine.
These are recent sales. These are facts and they show that you are simply wrong that only 2bd 2bth on the corners sold in the high $600/sf. If my line wasn't sold out do you think it would sell for less per sq. ft. than home office or one bedroom units? Not how it works. A true 2 bed gets a premium per sq. ft. over a home office or one bed unit. So I think $680 sounds about right. If it's $650 than 14% is just fine by me. Even at $600 (no way my unit sells for $50 sq. ft. less than home office and one bedroom units) I'm still up 8%.
Of course the unit you cherry picked is a resale, not a sponsor sale, on a line that is not sold out (seller was competing against other available sponsor units; my line and similar lines are sold out). It is also not a good comp because it is not a true 2 bd unit rather it is one bed and one home office. It is also on the interior most portion of the couryard so it has no view and less light than other courtyard units. Your contention that courtyard units have always been more expensive than BQE is another gross generalization (some where and some weren't) and it hasn't held up with actual sales.
Current value of my apartment is really besides the point though as I'm loving OBBP and will be here for years. I was simply responding to ab_11218's comment that I had already lost 10% on my unit.
We get it leom...you don't like OBBP. But people aren't suckers and idiots because they do. Please take your misreprentations and baseless opinions someplace else.
And regarding the assessed value leom, try reading my posts again. I never said the reduction would have a large impact on taxes. I was simply responding to your assertion that reduction of the assessed value of OBBP has some bearing on market value (it doesn't). You are certainly correct that it will presently have a marginal impact of taxes because of the abatement.
And as for the landlease, it does impact common charges but they are still in line with comparable buildings. It's a much different type of landlease than for BPC, etc., and we're only in year 3 of a 99 year lease. Not a concern, but people should do there own research (try it wbottom).
Now that swe is here the cast is complete. Same old posters making the same old arguments about OBBP.
swe knows that the construction regarding the BQE cantilever is years away (2018) and no one knows what it will entail yet. Indeed, the several tunnel options that are on the table would result in no reconstruction of the cantilever and would be a benefit to OBBP. If the cantilver is reconstructed, it will not have the overwhelming impact that swe infers. OBBP is on the southernmost end of the cantilever so much of the construction will not be proximate to OBBP. The reconstruction of the cantilever is a Brooklyn Heights and Downtown Brooklyn issue not just a OBBP issue (where do you thing the traffic will be redirected?).
And the height of the BQE is only potentially an issue for the third and fourth floors. After than you are above the cantilever. It apparently wasn't much of an issue there either as those floors are sold out.
As for access, there is an underpass at Joralemon and at Atlantic so how exactly is OBBP isolated from Brooklyn Heights? It's all of 50 feet. In calling it isolated, I guess you haven't seen all the people enjoying Pier 6 of the Broolyn Bridge Park. Piers 2-4 may be isolated from the Heights because of the lack of underpasses, but not OBBP. Squibb Park Bridge, which will be finished next summer will help that too.
Gator - Living in OBBP seems to have already taken tolls on your logic capability. What's your definition of "similar"? 706 & 906 are both 1bd 1bth, only 700+ sq, totally different layout! They don't have >100 sf wasted on a totally dark walk-in closet as in your 810; their window in the bd is wall to wall large, unlike your both bd sharing one minuscule dark window that's split by the wall & positionned almost above eye level!!!
Let's analyse #906, your exemple of highest $/sf. It was listed & then rented out back in mid-2009, for sure a deal made before the late 2008 financial crisis. The poor owner who overpaid just couldn't walk away from his hard earned deposit! That's your recent sponsor sales recording???
Don't your records show exactly "only 2bd 2bth on the corners or at least without BQE exposure" sold barely in the high $600/sf?
You are right about the competition from the sponsor. As long as the sponsor still holds +150 units of all sizes & conditions, there's no way you can even think of resale without a loss! And this situation will, unfortunately last for years at OBBP, given the current sales pace & huge inventory. I really wish you could be up 8% at least for the risk you had taken. But besdie your bias as a owner/seller, who's going to pay about $900k for your triple BQE exposed apt w. dark beds? Is your closet really worth $100k alone if it's also priced at $600/sf? :)
Where are all the expert researchers on SE?
When you find the name -- google it. It gets worse.
Crime families and ppsf aside, I think these guys did a brilliant job addressing one of my main issues with the building - the height of the windowsills.
In a city obsessed with ceiling heights, they did the unthinkable (raised the floors), and completely altered the living room as a result. Bravo.
Realty Collective, LLC
So Tina: You are not happy?
It was not "brilliant"?
What's under the floors (and behind the walls...)?
Truth, your intended criticism of this building is very cryptic ...
Thx for the tip, Tina. But raising the floor by 1 foot is the last thing Gator would do. Thx to the awkward height window, you start noticing the traffic on BQE at about half the depth of the apt. If your vantage point is raised by 1 foot, you will be able to count the trucks right after you step into the apt!
Guys, can I also get your perspective on the corner units facing south and east? What do you know about the building to be built south to Obbp? I understand that it would block some of the vies (specifically water) but it seems to me that it's already reflected in th price. These units are priced almost like courtyard units where the lack of views is guaranteed. The layout is beautiful and it has floor to ceiling windows. Before they learned about the possibility of a new tower to the south these units were priced like the river facing units. Please let me know (and pls keep the discussion to the point - I understand there's some history among some of the commenters but please keep it as objective as possible otherwise it's not that helpful). Thanks again.
2323 - Check out Brownstoner & Curbed for info regarding future development to the south. Long story short: it was planned; then local residents & politicians fought against more housing in the park; different stakeholders came up w. up to 9 alternatives; however, none of them seems feasible either b/c all are not only insufficient & unreliable to fund the park financiallly, but also legally again the initial terms for the creation of the parkt & the agreement btwn the city & the state when the city took over the project.
As of today, OBBP solely bears the burden for the funding of the maintenance (about 3 mm/year). If more sections of the park open and there's still no more extra resources, OBBP will have to pay more! Beside, the assessment the residents are paying as part of your cc has already been scheduled to increase every 3 years. So expect your monthly carrying cost to increase continuingly... [Don't quote me the exact #s in this para but that's roughly the idea]
The courtyard units have no view at all. The corner units have both the good (waterview) & the bad (BQE), which balance each other. The pricing at OBBP is: you have to pay a premium to be farther from BQE and not see it!
That's why the lines you are talking about have never been as expensive as river facing units. At least after the price slash in fall 2009, they are priced at about $700/sf, similar to courtyard, vs. $500-600 for BQE & $900-1000 for water.
I was also tempted by the 2bd 2bth on corners when OBBP chopped the price by 30-35% across the board in 2009. But In addition to the isolated location of the building in general & the proximity to BQE , I was turned off by the noise at the north corners (there is a rally against tourist helicopters this very weekend on Pier 6!) & the trucks depot to the south even w/o knowing about the development plan (of course the salesperson didn't volonteer to brief me on that!). So I just moved on after my 2nd visit & was not "done dirty". :) In a hindsight, I'm amazed how these 2bd/2th w. so many desirable features (waterview, high ceiling, large windows, functional layout, priced at only $700) that would make them sell out like hot cakes are still on available the market! So it's up to you to judge most buyers' reaction to OBBP.
To say some of the lines sold out at OBBP doesn't make sense at all. 1) this is a low-rise building & the fl plans change above 9th fl, so there are only a handful of units on each line; 2) there are many mirror image lines & the sponsor's strategy is to not release another line until a certain one sold out, but you'll got another batch of the same products on the market. This is disastrous for individual owners who hope to see their property gain however minimal value. Furthermore, you'll have to pay broker's commission & transaction taxes for resales while the sponsor doesn't. This will last for years at OBBP, elas!
Forgot something that might be good for you: the housing, if built, will start from Dumbo (John st?). So the south side of OBBP will remain totally clear at least in the next couple of years. That's if you want to make a bet.
The northern facing corner units are completely sold out. The southern are pretty available. I've given my opinion on the southern facing units on another thread. Basically, I do agree that they'll most likely have to build two large towers there due to the park's current funding plan. You'll lost much of the wide open and sweeping view, however, it will be more like the traditional NY experience of having neighbors across the street.
OBBP doesn't completely fund the park. Residents at OBBP don't pay property taxes, rather they make Payments In Lieu of Taxes (PILOT) which are the same dollar amount that the taxes would be. All of this money goes into the park maintenance fund. The building doesn't currently own the land that it sits on, instead the land was bought by the developer then donated to NYS. NYS then leases the land back to OBBP. It's a fully negotiated 99 year lease for the land, with initial payment at $1.5m then increasing 3%/year. At the end of the term, the Condo Association has the sole right to purchase the land for one dollar. As others have mentioned, this is different than a standard co-op/condo land lease situation where a private individual enters into a 10-30 year lease with the coop/condo. The former isn't a big issue, the latter can be when the owner of the land chooses to jack up the lease terms.
Leom, dude could you be more wrong? Are you really trying to argue that 1bd 1bth units and home office units are worth more per sq. ft. than my 2bd 2bath unit? That alternative real estate universe exists only in your mind. What about unit 809 selling at $652 sq ft? It’s a home office unit so the bedroom has no windows. Is my unit worth less than that unit? Only in your world leom. The closings I listed show exactly what I said that units at OBBP are now starting and selling at $650+ sq. ft. (harbor units obviously are selling for significantly more).
“They don't have >100 sf wasted on a totally dark walk-in closet as in your 810.” First it’s about 65 square feet, not 100. Second, how is this wasted space? Most New Yorkers would kill for the closet my unit has. The closet provides fantastic storage space which is a rarity in NYC. As for it being “totally dark,” what would you expect of a closet? It’s called a light fixture…makes the closet perfectly bright. You might want to look into it.
You claim my unit has “Miniscule dark window” in the bedrooms. They are a bit narrow (two and a half feet), but miniscule? The window is ten feet tall! That’s about 25 sq ft of window in each bedroom. That’s a lot of window. Neither of my bedrooms is the least bit dark, they get great light.
Unit 906 was not a pre-recession deal. The unit closed on April 18, 2011. You are correct that 906 was previously rented, but wrong about who rented it out. It wasn’t the owner (could rent it out before the buyer closed on the unit), it was the SPONSOR! The sponsor rented out approximately 30 units during the downturn. Do you really think that the sponsor rented out a unit that was in contract? Really!? No way, no how. The sale of 906 is a new deal. Sorry to disappoint you.
You’re also totally wrong about being able to see the BQE from half way into my unit. You can’t see the any part of the BQE until you get about two feet from the window and even then only a very limited portion well to the south. You can’t see any other part of the BQE from my unit unless you go up completely to the window and look straight down. I’m sorry leom you really know almost nothing about OBBP.
“As of today, OBBP solely bears the burden for the funding of the maintenance (about 3 mm/year). If more sections of the park open and there's still no more extra resources, OBBP will have to pay more!” Right about the first part, and again abjectly wrong on the second part. OBBP’s landlease payments go to the annual maintenance of Brooklyn Bridge Park. OBBP will not have to pay a penny more to the Park. There is no circumstance in which OBBP would be obligated to pay more to the Park than what it is contractually obligated. You should retract this misrepresentation. And while you are correct that the payment does increase at intervals, it is only about 3% annually so costs increases can be planned for and is roughly the rate of inflation.
Finally, you are once again wrong that “the sponsor's strategy is to not release another line until a certain one sold out, but you'll got another batch of the same products on the market.” The sponsor may not be marketing all units currently, but they are all available for sale. And except for the corner units I believe that all 2 bed, 2 bath units are sold out. So sorry again but quite a few lines have sold out.
I don’t know why you have an agenda against OBBP but you clearly do. It comes through loud and clear in your posts.
Gator, i hope it's not too weird but would love to talk to you off line. You obviously know a lot about the building And i am seriously considering purchasing. Can you call me at 917-828-4600.
2323, not weird at all. I'd be happy to talk to you off line. I'll give you a call tomorrow.
Agenda? You never fail to crack me up, gator. Get out of the siege mentality or you'll slip further into conspiracist paranoia. Normal people think living right above BQE sucks, that’s it.
Long after you closed & moved in, you continue paying fees to check every fellow buyer’ records, handpick unsimilar units as comp and come up with a 17.5% (how precise!) to make yourself feel like worth living next to BQE. And you are proud of it? Why don’t you take SE fee as a comp? It’s up 50% in 2 years, which might really help you get ride of the insecure feeling about your purchase. :)
Wish you good luck for getting the # you dream of for your presumed million dollar apt in no matter how many years. Then we'll take about comps & the value of triple BQE facing units.
leom, I have no ties to the building whatsoever, but don't quite understand the hating going on here (other than as the rampant internet phenomenon it usually is). I can't comment on living above the BQE - I'd guess I wouldn't want to, but would have to actually experience it before commenting on it. Maybe you have, but I don't think all that many posters here are in that boat (but please correct if I'm wrong).
huntersburg: The Building didn't convert itself.
I'm talking about RAL the developer.
And his mafia contractors.
To whom RAL did dirty.
Now awaiting trial and in the position to tell the Feds about RAL.
Because that's what mob guys do when they have info that can help them cut a deal with the Feds.
And that guy has decades worth of info about RAL, not just about OBBP.
But he knows all about OBBP.
More than anybody who is living there.
P.S.: I don't hate you bjw. Gator knows that I don't hate him.
I don't even mildly dislike you.
Hate is a heavy word.
The Gambino guy HATES RAL.
And that's hate he can use now.
Truth, I know it ain't personal, no worries. I'm just a bit conscious of the fact that people can and will say just about anything on here, without much thought about accuracy or truth. You may well be right about everything in the building; I'm just a bit surprised there's such a difference of opinion on this particular development.
BJW - Truth posts negatively about OBBP and more specifically the developer, Robert A. Levine (RAL) all over this website. Truth's claims about Levine read as being personal to me, especially as Truth has previously posted much about his/her personal relationship with Levine in the past and how it soured. Truth claims that he/she has personal knowledge of the use of poor finishes and installations as cost cutting efforts during construction of OBBP. Truth also claims that Levine's son doesn't live in the building. Some of these facts can be checked on this website. Others can be checked when walking through a unit.
At the end of the day, this building isn't for everyone. Most buildings in NYC are similar in that they work for some people and not others. The difference in opinion regarding this project on this board tends to come from the same negative persons time after time. There is no denying that the building is a large project, and that it has only sold just over 50% of the available units. My understanding from speaking with my neighbors, both before and after purchasing here, is at everyone who is in is very happy with their purchase.
juuceman: I have no problem with people who are happy with their purchase at OBBP.
Yes, I've known RAL for decades. That's how I know things about him. I know that contractor.
I never said that OBBP has "poor finishes", quite the opposite, I've said that RAL has excellent taste.
The personal knowledge that I have about the building comes from the contractor. Directly.
RAL's son lives, or lived at that time on Joralemon Street.
bjw: I just write what I know for a fact and, I know much more than that.
"I was also tempted by the 2bd 2bth on corners when OBBP chopped the price by 30-35% across the board in 2009. But In addition to the isolated location of the building in general & the proximity to BQE , I was turned off by the noise at the north corners (there is a rally against tourist helicopters this very weekend on Pier 6!) & the trucks depot to the south even w/o knowing about the development plan (of course the salesperson didn't volonteer to brief me on that!). So I just moved on after my 2nd visit & was not "done dirty". :) In a hindsight, I'm amazed how these 2bd/2th w. so many desirable features (waterview, high ceiling, large windows, functional layout, priced at only $700) that would make them sell out like hot cakes are still on available the market! So it's up to you to judge most buyers' reaction to OBBP. "
Yeah, must all be just haters.... riiight.
I'm sure there are folks that will take the tradeoff, they're obviously the group buying. But they're obviously not a very large group, with all those price cuts and unsold apartments.
Multiple folks have noted isolated, and noting there is a tunnel nearby to another neighborhood doesn't quite challenge that.
"Multiple folks have noted isolated, and noting there is a tunnel nearby to another neighborhood doesn't quite challenge that."
A tunnel? Exaggerate much? It's an underpass.
It would be so easy to research the name of that Gambino family contractor, and then google his name.
I've given enough info to make it easy.
He's an "associate".
He got busted in the mafia round-up.
You don't have to take my word for it -- look it up for yourselves -- unless you think that ignorance is bliss.
He's worked on other projects with RAL. You would find that info, too.
That contractor may be a mafia associate but he has more integrity and is more honest than RAL is. (which isn't hard to best).
If I give up the name on here --juuceman won't be so happy. And, I have nothing against juuceman.
bjw: tunnel, underpass; whatever. I'm surprised that you haven't come up with the contractors name yet.
somewhereelse: If I put it up on here, you will have the research very quickly. And you will post it. The FBI has a personal problem with the Gambino family! The Gambino family really are fine building contractors.I was just accusing them because I have a personal problem with RAL.( I've never claimed that it wasn't personal -- it sure is.)
That contractor has some MAJOR personal (and business) problems with RAL.And he has information and documents that he can produce now that he's in a position to use them.
i've got it.
okay, one more question. Feedback on 166 Montague? Also in comparison to OBBP. They seem to be asking $1000/sqft. How flexible are they? How would that compare to the river facing units at OBBP (same price point)? Any other new developments in BH that I should be considering? Thanks.
Considering how competetive bjw and somewhereelse are:
Who can come up with the contractor's name and the on-the-record info about him, first?
9:25pm, Monday May 16th 2011.
Go, guys. Have at it and let's see who comes up with it first.
Because: It's a doozy. It's connected to well-known Gambino/mafia names that everyone will have heard of. Legendary names. The stuff of books and now a soon-to-be-major-motion picture,starring John Travolta.
And RAL thought that because he knew this guy for over 40 years; that he could screw him and do him dirty.
That guy HAS PAPER on RAL. When he did time, almost 20 years ago, he was a younger man. His kids were so young they didn't know why dad wasn't home anymore.
Now he's faced with serious time in prison and of course he would like to cut a deal with the Feds.
The Feds are interested in any/everything that he can give them--not just giving up mafia guys (which he never did the first time -- he went to prison and did his time.)
But he hates RAL -- for very good reason.
We who know and have been done dirty by RAL are just waiting to see when he gives it up to the Feds.
2323: I don't know anything about that building.
But you will probably be making a better decision if you purchase there.
Because although I asked, nobody gave an answer about the 2-year bank-loan extension that just expired.
If I was wrong about the expiration, then I would have been corrected by now -- but nobody corrected me.
So what happens? I read that the unit owners have to pick up the carrying costs for the unsold units in a condo in that situation. Including that 7.5 million dollar triplex up on top of OBBP. RAL described it in a local newspaper as "The crazy one".
No bank extension has expired Sponsor's underlying loan was extended six or eight months ago to 9/11 with options to extend until 9/2013. If sponsor defaults and bankrupts, unit owners are responsible for covering cost. And retain an interest in unsold units along with bank.
Spencer Levine closed on unit in 2008 and was one of the first residents of the building.
Why do I care if RAL used mafia contractors?? To the best of my knowledge, Newmark Knight Frank, a British owned builder, did the residential conversion.
2323 - we looked at 166 Montague 2 bed/2 bath units but they didn't work for us. Smaller units are actually loft one bedrooms. Larger units don't make great use of space. We didn't like being right on Montague when you leave and the corner it a pretty heavily traveled one with cabs running up Clinton all night and trucks, etc there in he early morning for deliveries. Common spaces were small and limited. Spaces were noisier than bqe facing units because of stop light stopping trucks in front of building all day and night.
At that money I'd look at the new development at Henry street Or Love Lane Mews. Both are very different products but worth seeing if you're interested in the neighborhood.
Re: the 'tunnel' to Brooklyn heights, go and walk it one day. Walking out the north entrance of the building puts you at Joralemon St. Cross the street walk under the overpass, and you've got Iris Cafe and River Deli. Both of these are closer to and pull people in from much of the heights proper than any other coffee shop or restaurant. Walking out the south side of the building puts you one block from Atlantic and three blocks from multiple bars, restaurants and markets. Like I said, not for everyone. But it works for a lot of us.
Juuceman, what's the building number on Henry st?
2323: I think he's referring to 20 Henry, the loft conversion.
What's your timeline? And have you thought about expanding your search a bit South to Cobble Hill? The Arches condo has a number of 2 bedroom units currently on the market: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/the-arches-at-cobble-hill. A church conversion from 2005, some are spectacular and some less so, but you'll find a better price per square foot in an established building.
(One caveat - it's entirely possible that in 1850, when the church was originally constructed, the stonemasons had ties to the mafia. Not sure if you can live with the stigma.)
Realty Collective, LLC
Here is another example.... Columbia Heights waterfront district. "only" an overpass, and you don't even have to go up... languished for years because of it. Even today, still removed from Cobble Hill proper. Not as big as DUMBO, but enough to create a small district... but a singular building will have more problems with that.
swe, really stretching with that comparison. Not many buildings on the waterfront district that even remotely compare to OBBP (in fact, can't think of any). Indeed, the problem with that area is that many buildings are more isolated, because you have to walk a few blocks to get to a through-street to Cobble Hill. OBBP is right at that through-street. It's not as isolated as you're making it out to be. It's what, not even a 5 minute walk to Joralemon and Henry? Come on.
2323 - 20 Henry. The construction was stalled for a period of time and has recently restarted so you're looking at some time before the units are available.
bjw - I takes me nine minutes to walk from the R train station on the corner of Montague and Henry to the building at night. In doing so, I walk by Key Food, the bagel place, several delis, etc.
swe - Columbia Heights isn't really a valid comparison. It's ONE block to the "civilization" of a restaurant and coffee shop from OBBP. OBBP provides a dry cleaning service in house and the amenities allow one to live within the building without having to leave to use the gym, have a playroom for the kids, etc etc etc. There's a restaurant opening this summer across the street in the park. The retail is beginning to rent out..
juuceman: O.K. so the loan is re-extended until Sept. and possibly another two years. Hope for the best on that.
Spencer moved from Joralemon Street to OBBP? Mazel.
If you don't care about mafia contractors, hope for the best on that. (See: Franklin Tower, TriBeCa).
If that's the best of your knowledge about who worked on the conversion, I have better knowledge than you.
If you like living there, then don't worry -- be happy.
Tina: Check your New York history.
Never mind "the stigma".
"swe - Columbia Heights isn't really a valid comparison. It's ONE block to the "civilization" of a restaurant"
Fair enough, CH is better, in that the civilization is there, like in DUMBO. With 1BBP, you have to leave the area, walk through the tunnel, etc., just to get to that civilization.
"OBBP provides a dry cleaning service in house and the amenities allow one to live within the building without having to leave to use the gym, have a playroom for the kids, etc etc etc. "
If the sell of the building is "you don't have to leave the building", doesn't say much for the neighborhood, does it?
"Fair enough, CH is better, in that the civilization is there, like in DUMBO. With 1BBP, you have to leave the area, walk through the tunnel, etc., just to get to that civilization."
"Leave the area" = walk out the front door
"Walk through the tunnel" = walk through a ~50 ft underpass (take a look for yourself at this "tunnel": http://bit.ly/iLNeI0)
Of course, the "civilization" you're talking about is on the same side of the BQE as OBBP, so you really just walk down to Columbia St. Get your facts right.
"If the sell of the building is "you don't have to leave the building", doesn't say much for the neighborhood, does it?"
That's not the sell of the building of course, but why knock those amenities if they're there? Dry cleaning, gym, and kids' playroom are nice things to have in any building. You don't really have much of a point here.
somewhereelse: Very similar to the fiasco in Telluride with the Capella Hotel.
RAL convinced the town of Mountain Village that he was going to save them from dire financial straits.
The mayor declared RAL "A hero" at the "opening" of Capella (when only 27 of 100 rooms were complete.) At that point it was ten years and 200million. Many variances to build it bigger.
The hotel had condos for sale. They never sold.
A deal for RAL to build a skating rink ended up costing the town of Mountain Village 100K.
A local charity group that works with learning disabled children needed the use of one of the ski-runs leading down to the hotel to give ski lessons on. RAL charged them for it.
Locals who applied for jobs at the hotel never heard back from them. Instead RAL bought a long-term-stay- motel in nearby Norwood and evicted the people who were living there, in order to house hotel employees from out-of-town.
RAL directed the chef at one of the hotel's restaurants to put $13 hot dogs on the menu (they did come with 3 kinds of mustard). Dan's Diggity Dog down on Main Street got no business from hotel guests.
The same for businesses in Mountain Village,which went bankrupt.
RAL would come to Capella and stay inside the hotel, nobody in Mountain Village ever saw him on the streets there. He could have at least gone out and spent a few bucks at the local businesses.
Less than 2 years after the hotel "opened" - RAL went into forclosure there.
And - there is a contractor who worked on the hotel who was so nervous about the dangerous way in which RAL was cutting corners, that he kept a log-book, for his own defense.
In one particular instance when RAL wanted to mount things on the walls of the rooms in a dangerous, cheap way; the contractor's concern was met with RAL telling him: "Don't worry, if anything happens, it's the architect's problem."
This is actually reminding me of the 2nd avenue subway as well. Yes, it will eventually come (although, not confirmed for 1bbp on all fronts). And lots of pain in the meantime.
Key difference... nobody is paying top dollar for the apartments on 2nd ave now. There is a huge discount for that, even though it could be a major premium in a few years.
Well, at least in the end after years and tons of money -- there will be a second ave. subway.
The locals in Telluride now refer to Mountain Village as "The Morgue".
Dead. Fartig, Kaput.
bjw: I do agree with you on that: gym, kids playroom and dry cleaning sevice are all nice to have in any building. I prefer to have choices, and decide where my clothing is cleaned. Same with a gym.
You are a great Brooklyn-booster in general, bjw. You should be living there for free, and Marty Markowitz should pay you for living there.
What do you do in the playroom?
juuceman: All the best to you. Really.
Give my regards to Spencer when you see him in your building. It's a good thing that his father employs him, because I'm not giving him free tix to sold-out concerts anymore.
No more free tix?
Thanks Truth - I am not opposed to Marty paying for my living expenses (well, as long as it ain't taxpayer money).
Seriously though, again, this is the "tunnel": http://bit.ly/iLNeI0
I mean, the Holland Tunnel must feel like a cross-Atlantic flight if that's put in the same category.
To OP: BQE facing units are not worth the health risks IMHO. We looked at it two years ago and even went as far as getting quote to seal up the windows to contain the noise (and its by far more than just white noise, you have to visit the unit during weekdays to see the real traffic) We also did some research on health risks and found research reports on respiratory health issues living 500 yards away from major highway especially with toddlers. Google it for your own benefits before you decide.
"We also did some research on health risks and found research reports on respiratory health issues living 500 yards away from major highway especially with toddlers. Google it for your own benefits before you decide"
Yup.... I knew someone who lived in a DUMBO building next to bqe, facing away.... consistently a layer of black soot on the window sills...
"bjw: I do agree with you on that: gym, kids playroom and dry cleaning sevice are all nice to have in any building. I prefer to have choices, and decide where my clothing is cleaned. Same with a gym."
Agreed, they are benefits, absolutely. And they should be paid extra for.
But that wasn't the point.
When brought up as the answer to "there isn't much in the neighborhood", then to me it is fairly clear that the responded can't contradict the original point.
"When brought up as the answer to "there isn't much in the neighborhood", then to me it is fairly clear that the responded can't contradict the original point."
It's impossible to dispute that "point" if you're still under the bizarre impression that this building is somehow its own neighborhood. As pointed out to you several times now, with visual evidence no less, OBBP is in Brooklyn Heights. Last I checked, there's enough in that neighborhood to completely contradict your "point."
somewhereelse: Don't get carried away, now.
I never said those building features "should be paid extra for".
Unit owners without kids shouldn't pay extra to live in a building that has a kiddie playroom.
And, my preference for a selection of dry cleaners and gyms is about having a choice within walking distance of a building that has those services.
Carry on, swe and bjw...
"Unit owners without kids shouldn't pay extra to live in a building that has a kiddie playroom."
And if I AM forced to pay for the kiddie playroom, don't think I'm not going to use it to hold cocktail parties.
i'm sure they won't sweat your cacktail party of one
Try eight or nine.
Oh yeah, and we're gonna talk about boys and say "fuck" a lot.
So you'd invite not only your friends, and their friends, but also friends of friends. frug.
actually, your drinking alone in the playroom might concern your neighbors