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If prices are now at 2004 levels here in NYC, was she wise on selling her Manhattan unit in 2004 and rented the past 8 years?
Last i heard she paid 2,400 for a 2 bedroom. That's 230,400 in the past 8 years down the drain.
No tax deduction.
No equity pay down.
No refinance with lower rates to bring payment down.
She'll have to fork out time, energy and money to look and buy a new place.
Uh oh: here come the multiple handle bully gang members.
ar just put out a call to arms on the ar wire.
She has the time and possibly the money.
After 9am her energy is devoted to drinking.
Drinking? You mean eating?
The point isn't about if she had the money to do it.
The point is, did she made the right decision? And the obvious answer is...
NO
I've never met her nor seen her in person.
I hope she has some breakfast before the bottle.
Even if she washes down her bacon and eggs with a screwdriver.
I know that was the point.
Stating that she didn't make the right decision/diagreeing with her in any way:
Thems fightin' words!
I have to go to a meeting. Sorry to leave, it's been fun.
I predict that if I log back in later, this thread will have a lot of action on it.
And/or it will get deleted.
disagreeing
I'll play.
Let's say she had $200K to buy a $1M place back then vs. invest & rent, liquidating everything today.
Instead, she put $100K in stocks (SPY) and $100K in bonds (TLT). The former would be worth $138K, the latter $183K. Taxes on the former would take it down to a profit of $29K, $59K on the latter. So $88K profit against $230K rental cost, so $142K on housing over 8 years, $1480 month.
Had she bought, she would have paid $1500 a month in cc & property taxes, no deduction because of AMT. Even with ARMs, interest rate would have averaged at 4%. At $800K and 1/3rd off for tax deduction, works out to $1800 a month. Throw in $100 for insurance, and another $200 for minimal upkeep. So $3600 a month down the drain. Works out to $345K out of pocket. Then comes the small matter of transaction costs: $60K to broker, $20K in transfer taxes, $10K in recording taxes & other closing costs: $90K. So $435K total money down the drain over 8 years, $4530 a month.
Given that it cost her one third, a full $300K less after-tax over 8 years, yeah I think she made out alright compared to buying in 2004 and selling at the same price today. If you want to say that she would have stayed in the same apt for 8 years (hence no additional transaction costs), she'd "only" be ahead by $200K.
She clearly could have sold later and done better. Or she could have sold later and done worse.
Or you may be asking the question too early. The bonuses must have blown your mind again this winter.
"After 9am her energy is devoted to drinking
I hope she has some breakfast before the bottle.
Even if she washes down her bacon and eggs with a screwdriver."
ar has not been on this board in months yet we still see this personal attacks from the real estate homunculus.
I agree with falco. She's long gone and irrelevant, and most of what she said has been debunked. No need to keep bringing her up just to kick a dead horse.
One more thing, AR was a bear, she would not have been putting money in the equity markets as inododo suggests.
And lastly, does the inododo scenario have her buying a place for $1mm with $1500 maintenance that she could otherwise be renting for $2400 per month? Where is this magical apartment worth so much but available for rent for so cheap?
falcogold: More self-serving comments.
You aren't in the grey zone with them only because you hid out and laid low.
And to you and your fellow bully gang members, that is the ultimate downgrading.
inonada is a female?
No wonder she no lika me.
nobody likes you.
inododo isn't female. The reference is aboutready's apartment.
hey look, there's columbiacounty. Is he part of the CBGB?
AR's rent wasn't $2400 originally, it was something in the $4K range I thought before the court ruling. The court ruling changed it to $2400 -- how else do you get a good-sized 2BR/2BA (1200+ sq ft?) at that price? I imagine ericho was referring to all that.
Truth, I'm not sure why you think I dislike you. I don't engage in discussions with you because you rarely discuss NYC RE, which is what I'm mainly here to do. You are mainly interested in discussing interpersonal crap, which is of little interest to me. You shouldn't take my lack of interest as a sign of dislike.
>You are mainly interested in discussing interpersonal crap, which is of little interest to me.
Like this thread?: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/29712
Hope more people like AR and Alanhart stayed in SE. Alan really saved me from making a huge RE mistake before the crash. AR has taught me a lot, and I think she is very generous. Sick posters that use this board to spill venom about people they don't know is annoying sad an inconvenient. Wish they decide to do therapy and take their meds.
At $2/sq ft rent in Manhattan even for a basic place with no doorman, walk to the subway, why would you buy?
>Wish they decide to do therapy and take their meds.
You know mimi, I hope you area doctor. impersonating a doctor - making diagnoses, suggesting medical treatment - that's not legal.
Also, wasn't aboutready the one on meds?
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/17818
if 2,400 for a real 2-brm is the real payment all these years, she/they did much better
Nope,inonada.
I'm basically interested in reading discussions and learning things as well as having a bit of fun.
Sorry I misread your comment and thought you were a female. And as huntersburg pointed out, you've got more than a little interest in the interpersonal crap.
And for anybody who didn't have the good sense (or any real life friends or advisors) to help them avoid making huge mistakes, they need to get a real life.
It took cc. more than an hour to find me. The thrill is gone for him.
"And as huntersburg pointed out, you've got more than a little interest in the interpersonal crap."
I linked an article that described LIC as the sister copy neighborhood of Hell's Kitchen, the two hoods heatedly discussed and contrasted as superior / inferior in many an argument here. I consider that RE-related and ironic. I find it unusual that you consider the topic interpersonal crap as opposed to RE-related.
oh inonada, I don't care who argues with whom about superior/inferior neighborhoods.
That's interpersonal crap.
what's this?
Truth
about 21 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse
falcogold: More self-serving comments.
You aren't in the grey zone with them only because you hid out and laid low.
And to you and your fellow bully gang members, that is the ultimate downgrading.
CC, I believe that is called hypocrisy...pssss ...psssss... don't tell truth, but truth is a wacko
oh no...she never reads what i say but she does read what you post. oh no, i don't think she's gonna like this.
Renting leaves you least in control of being able to stay put in your residence, knowing your future housing costs and leaves you with no upside appreciation of the asset. And you miss out on the psychic benefits of home ownership.
Now it's true that the upside/capital appreciation of owning a home also exposes one to depreciation, the longer one stays put the less this is likely to remain true, and if yo pay off your mortgage your very likely to have a lower monthly carrying cost.
If one rents, is the Psychic Hotline still available for a per minute fee?
Yes!
has midtownereast weighed in on this topic?...
What in the world does midtownervirgineast have to do with aboutready?
huntersburg,
midtownereast, has chillaxed since ar and alanfart went grey, he needs his CBGMs to make "him" feel pumped.
Chillaxed? Sounds sharp, hard and cold. I always viewed midtownereast as kind of soft, weak and lukewarm.
w67t: Don't tell me? How could you be so mean as to want me to miss out on your comments.
huntersburg,
Chillaxed is the contraction of Chill and Relaxed, but your view of it is funny. "He" has not been too active since his CBGMs went grey. midtownereast, is soft, weak and lukewarm, "he" is a minion for ar.
Chillax.....very Disney channel
Capillary blood glucose monitoring (CBGM)?
midtownereast abandoned "his" legal job and is now employed in healthcare.
Conclusion: Aboutready
Anyone who moves as much as her, in one city, is unstable.
http://www.brickunderground.com/blog/2010/09/searching_the_east_village
Having fun talking to yourself? I just wanted to know what CBGM stands for, Mr. SMH/LOL.
MoldtownerYeast,
You're all alone and are not having fun while the Get-Along-Gang are greyed. Is it too cold out for you to cruise midtown east for a trick?
'Anyone who moves as much as her, in one city, is unstable.'
Plato believed that the realm of reality is divided up into two different areas, the world of senses and the world of ideas (forms). He believed these two worlds must co-exist to maintain equilibrium in the world, but in doing so, he also believes that we can only trust what we “know” due to reason and that we must discredit things we perceive with our senses (Plato 475-513)
Conclusion: mutombonyc
So, You are not only the essence of shit but you type shit and, probably smell like it as well.
falcogold1,
Have a great weekend!
Why are we still talking about Aboutready? It's like talking about John McCain, John Kerry, and Al Gore in a presidential context. No one cares. Forgotten and irrelevant, if they ever were relevant (especially Kerry).
h'burg
You're correct! It's obvious foolsgold is a fan of the CBGMs
R.I.P. Plato!
Falco - really? physics + philosophy? you're tugging at my heart strings! Theory of Forms had me at hello.
Allegory of the Cave = Holographic Principle. Cool shit!!
Now SE wants to explore the "root" of philosophy. foolsgold, you're not a Rhodes Scholar.
This coming from a person who believes "erudite" is an insult.
imho she bought in Harlem way before the optimal timing, when it comes to prices
she sold 3 years too early in 2004, and she bought too early in 2011 (maybe around 3 years too early too). just my 2 cents.
midtownereast,
get over it, your cbgms are greyed, "erudite," just insulted you.
midtowneryeast,
Wanted to partake in the conversation so bad "he" asked a stupid question.
Capillary blood glucose monitoring (CBGM)?
> she'd "only" be ahead by $200K
Awful, awful.
I for one, am glad I didn't lose 20+% leveraged 5x....
Harlem seems to have performed worse than the upper east or upper west side by several percentage points. Markets like Harlem tend to be last up and first down and don't hold up as well in flat to down markets.
The best one could say is that if one is not looking to sell the cost of ownership is lower after considering real estate taxes and price per square foot and the cost of neighborhood services.
-------------------------------------
The median sales price for homes in Harlem, New York for Nov 11 to Jan 12 was $561,020 based on 34 sales. Compared to the same period one year ago, the median sales price decreased 9.1%, or $56,040, and the number of sales increased 25.9%.
The median sales price for homes in East Harlem for Nov 11 to Jan 12 was $825,000. This represents an increase of 16.2%, or $114,770, compared to the prior quarter and a decrease of 8.3% compared to the prior year.
The median sales price for homes in Upper West Side, New York for Nov 11 to Jan 12 was $1,110,323 based on 181 sales. Compared to the same period one year ago, the median sales price increased 5.1%,
The median sales price for homes in Upper East Side, New York for Nov 11 to Jan 12 was $1,049,000 based on 139 sales. Compared to the same period one year ago, the median sales price decreased 6.8%
http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Upper_West_Side-New_York/5261/
http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Upper_East_Side-New_York/5260/
http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/East_Harlem-New_York/5089/market-trends/
Can we stop talking about the aboutready lady? Here's where she said "farewell" http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/21960-farewell?page=3
shouldn't that be invitation not to keep talking about her?
Why are we looking at just a year back? Ericho said last 8 years.
We pretending there wasn't a crash?
.
Grow up.
Ericho. Please short Sprint.
"Renting leaves you least in control of being able to stay put in your residence, knowing your future housing costs and leaves you with no upside appreciation of the asset. And you miss out on the psychic benefits of home ownership. "
Incredibly one sided... and not quite true.
1) Not true, owning only lets you know part of your future housing costs. Taxes have obviously gone up lots. Not to mention, is locking in costs always a positive? Of course not. Guess what happens when costs go down and you've locked in your payments.
2) Owning makes it much harder to change your mind, upgrade, move to a better neighborhood. My tastes have changed (as have neighborhoods), and I'm extremely happy that it costs me a couple grand to upgrade, not several times more.
3) "And you miss out on the psychic benefits of home ownership" You mean like being sure you are doing the right thing because the old wives told you so, even though you just lost tons?
and shall we forget...
4) "leaves you with no upside appreciation of the asset". Correction... upside... or downside. Kind of a HUGE one you missed. Owning let you take advantage of that 20% dip in the market. 10)% loss with 20% down! So glad we got to ride that one!
and 5) extra costs of home ownership vs. renting last few years. I was very happy to pay less... while avoiding all the other problems, like losing my down payment.
Thanks for your brilliant insight. What has the word done without your wisdom in the 5 months since erico posted? We are all lost sheep without somewheelese's comforting guidance.
word->world
did aboutready purchase something...why the turn around in market view?
It's quite obvious: aboutready spent years successfully disparaging the real estate market to the StreetEasy board so that the market would plummet city-wide. She then pounced on the opportunity to buy, outbidding an accepted offer on the property.
Dump and Gazump.
Alan, your logic doesn't hold. Aboutready says she remains a bear despite her recent purchase and current total ownership of two properties, one of which she says is a big money pit.
8/26
8,761
Only 16 idiotic comments since yesterday.
Slow day for you.
So what? I got to write "Dump and Gazump". Nothing else matters.
People counting my posts:
columbiacounty
Jim Hones
Aggregate number of posts by columbiacounty and JimHones: 10731+2863 = 13594
condo or coop?...neighborhood?..what made it a buyable deal?...
add one to cunterburg 's count for today.
10748+2865=13613
what neighborhood was deemed to have prices that would justify buying?...just wondering how the less than enthusiatic aboutready came to this decision...aboutready argued over and over again that prices would fall more (even well after 2008/2009) and that it was therefore unwise to buy in nyc...so, did aboutready have a complete change of outlook????
asked and not answered, cuntersburg.
10757+2865=13622
No, I did not have a complete change of outlook.. I still think that prices are vulnerable, but more importantly I think that financing may very well become even more difficult to obtain. I bought for the reasons I listed in the other thread. I can't envision needing the amount (very little) sunk into buying, even if we were to need to move, and I would do fine renting it if I had to.
What has happened since 2008 is a near doubling of our income, and with this purchase I got slightly more space, in a better locale, as our PCV apartment, but the after-tax cost is 25% less. Obviously I bought something fairly modest, but we love it. I will not give any further details of our purchase.
Makes complete sense to me, but to parse it out
1 - You believe prices will decline, but that was more than offset by
2 - The rent / buy ratio swung in favor of buying
So your short/medium term cash flow benefits, plus the lifestyle improvement, outweighed the potential capital loss if real estate prices do decline.
huntersburg
about 1 hour ago
Posts: 8788
Member since: Nov 2010
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Makes complete sense to me, but to parse it out
1 - You believe prices will decline, but that was more than offset by
2 - The rent / buy ratio swung in favor of buying
So your short/medium term cash flow benefits, plus the lifestyle improvement, outweighed the potential capital loss if real estate prices do decline.
You are mentally ill.
I will not opine as to hb's mental health but in this case he pretty much nailed it, except I also don't care about price depreciation because I'm gifting it to our daughter, so I just consider this money part of my estate planning.
What are you gifting to your black son?
The next country home we purchase. He prefers rural. And thank you for your inquiries, ACS has released him to our care, so we are moving along, although working with ACS is requiring every ounce of patience I possess.
Mental health diagnoses seem tough to make definitively, but I guess if you are a rental broker being scammed by a woman to assist with her citizenship fraud, you may be moreexperienced than most.
Let's do a case study on Huntersburg.. That will be a lot if fun.
Is he CC, Jim homes? Who is he really? Does he have a window in his shower? I's his wife a maid? Had she been touched by 1000 others? Did he go to Rutgers? Does he live in ME? Is he an editor or a lawyer? Does he live in Manhattan? Rent or own? Hmmmm
he/she/it is hunters burg.
not cc
who knows? who cares?
no.
who knows, who cares?
unknown
who knows, who cares?
who knows, who cares?
no
who knows, who cares.
who knows, who cares.
who knows, who cares.
and of course, he/she/it is you.
ar- why are you selling the upstate place? I thought you saw that as a great family compound/gathering place in the future. If your housing costs are actually going down after tax, why not just keep it?
obviously you have some good memories made there, and could make some new ones with the new addition.
I did not go to Rutgers. I've never visited Rutgers.
I do live in Manhattan. For a long time.
There is no window for any of my bathrooms in Manhattan. In the kitchen, yes.
poor bastard
So lawyer or editor or niether?
oh shit.
here we go.
ph41, because we are not using it enough, and it is 4000 square feet. if you only go up once every 6 weeks all you do is clean when you are there.
the new addition loves it. but he will be taking art classes on Saturdays, and our daughter will be enrolled in acting classes. we have all agreed that given that we travel 8-10 weeks a year and that rentals are so cheap upstate, we will rent a place for however many months it makes sense each summer (or eventually yearly), and we will buy another (somewhat smaller, closer) family compound in a few years after trying a few locations. I also want a place that has taxi access, both to the train and to a town. Right now we can't get a taxi, and I don't drive. I'd love to be a 30 minute or less walk from a village.
I am a tool booth collector in the EZ Pass lane.
you nailed it perfectly in the first three words.
I am a?
Cool. Sounds like an easy gig. You think CC can handle the stress that must come from that occupation?
cc, miss. four words. i didn't know they were hiring 12 year olds. and you do realize they do have someone who is responsible for sorting out tolls in the EZ Pass lane when something goes wrong, yes? were you trying for sarcasm, cleverness? hopefully not.