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Fellow home-seekers, please be warned, based on our experience, this seller cannot be trusted. We had an accepted offer at the full initial asking price for apartment 4C. We received a contract from the seller and returned it. After returning the contract with minor modifications, it sat with their lawyer for over 3 weeks without any communication. Our main concern that we added to the contract is the fact that there is ~ 70 decibels of constant ambient noise in the apartment coming from an exterior ventilation fan on the roof of the building that exceeds NYC code. Despite verbal assurances from the seller’s brokers that the sellers would “of course” remedy this noise issue, they refused to put anything in writing, and rejected without comment our rider which stipulated that the noise be brought to code. They then raised the price of the apartment 200k above our accepted offer. Buyers should be aware of the noise issue that the seller has refused to discuss, despite the brokers’ assurances. Make sure to open a window and see for yourself … also note the incorrectly installed stove/oven. Please comment here if you want any further details from us. Best of luck!
Hey, what us incorrect with the stove/oven? We are closing soon!
Is this ambient noise coming from the room of 233 Pacific or the roof of the commercial building between the two buildings?
julesjo, are you closing soon on apartment 4c or another in the building? the installations in the other apartments seemed fine, and clearly the appliances appear high quality. in 4c the gas line behind the stove seemed to be coming out of the wall too high from the ground, preventing the stove from being pushed back into place, to make it flush with the counter in the front; this created a couple/few inch space between the back of the stove and that wall.
UESaptowner, while there is of course ambient noise in the area (as in all of NY) the noise I referred to coming directly from the 4 fan unit on top of the PetSmart, the commercial building below the apartments. We brought a simple noise meter to the apartment. While the windows to the apartment seem of high quality, the sound was still strong enough (particularly what seemed like bass) to create a noticeable sound within the apartment. However, NYC code regarding noise is measured from an open window or door, among other things (can be found here: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/noise_code_guide.pdf ). While I can not remember the exact level from the open window, i do believe it was in the 60-70 decibel range, which is way beyond the code. I believe there are already 311 complaints from people in the neighborhood.
@DisappointedBidder Thanks for posting this! If only more home-seekers shared this type of information, the nyc real estate search would be much easier for everyone.
@disappointedBidder, Thanks for your response. I am actually purchasing a unit on the second floor and had asked if the noise was coming from the roof of the commercial space or the roof of the building since my apartment is right next to these fans. Therefore if it was loud on the 4th floor I can only imagine it being louder on 2. Certainly going to investigate this further, and if necessary complain as well. As to the code, don't you think it's a bit confusing???? "A single circulating device may not produce noise levels in excess of 42 decibels, as measured three feet from the noise source at an open door or window of a nearby residence" - how can you be three feet from the noise source and open window? or am i reading this incorrectly?
UESapt: If you call the DOB they have staff that answer questions over the phone.
Just call and ask.
gross--a four fan exhaust setup from petsmart!! dried fecal and dander flying in your windows--icky--i have a kid with asthma
consider this a blessing
paying $1000/sqft in brooklyn? and that with a view of petsmart? not smart. Brooks can find you half that per sqft in manhattan.
@mache and @UESaptowner you are both welcome. I wish these message boards were a lot more active as well. This industry is in need of a major 'disruption' because the current process is a complete mess. Hopefully an internet entrepreneur, fresh off a major $ windfall will tackle the NYC real estate market!
With regard to the NYC sound code, parts are a bit confusing, but I think the overall message is clear. Any way you look at it, if you measure the sound from the fan system you will determine its way too loud (see next paragraph). If you are on the second floor facing the fan system, your apartment has outdoor space I believe. While they will be putting something up around the patios, without significant work by the sponsor, you will barely be able to have a conversation out there due to the noise. You will certainly notice the sound indoors as well, although of course people have different sensitivities. Make sure to open the window to the bedroom and imagine trying to sleep.
Also remember how decibels work: "Decibels are a logarithmic unit, which means that a noise measuring 30 decibels is actually 10 times louder than a noise registering at 20 decibels." If the code allows ~45 decibels, but the noise at your window is ~70 decibels, they clearly have a lot of work to do. I found this completely unacceptable for a NEW development, and it made me question the entire development (wish I stopped there!) How on earth could that have been an oversight? Answer seems to me it was not an oversight, it was being cheap.
For me and my wife, the noise would have been a complete deal-breaker, but since the broker assured me the sponsor would adequately resolve it prior to closing we proceeded with the contract process. The sponsors lawyer (who was slow, non-communicative, and gave us a contract with multiple errors) rejected the rider with what was essentially no response. And, I am not aware of any work that has since been done. I would recommend you proceed very cautiously and make sure everything is in writing. Simply "complaining" may not give you the results you deserve.
How can sellers remedy fan noise in an adjacent building? And why would anyone eaven think of paying $1.3 million (or even a lot less) for an apartment with noisy commercial fans right outside the window?
JButton - You obviously don't know Cobble Hill. "not smart".
Disappointed Bidder - Thank you for all this color. We will definitely look into that. It's a good thing that contract did not go through with the stove issue and the noise. I have not yet noticed the noise, but I'm sure it will be an issue that we will have to deal with. I have (and am having) my fair share of issues with the broker, their incredibly slow and unresponsive attorney, and of course the sponsor. It's basically come to the point where I don't believe anything they are telling me. The sponsor told me he would touch up the apartment after I renovate.. and I'm going straight to my attorney to get it in writing. How sad that it's come to that point.
Despite all the negatives of the apartment, it has too much upside for me to be disappointed - Huge apartments, great price, amazing location between Smith and Court, close to the subways, NY sports club directly across the street - which means tennis courts, high ceilings (2nd and 5th Floors!), not a co-op, oh yeah.. and AMAZING LOCATION. (yes, I had to mention that twice because it's that superb). I lived in Soho for years and it doesn't come close.
Also wanted to add.. how shady they increased your apartment specifically up 200K!? What is up with that?
Have unit owners started closing yet? If not, when are closings set to begin?
Enjoy living in Brooklyn. $1000/sq ft is insane anywhere outside of Manhattan.
apparently Cobble Hill is special.
not sure why everyone is quoting $1,000/foot. it appears DissapointedBidder had an accepted offer at $1,100,000 (for 1340sqft) which comes to $820/ft. can anyone find me a better deal for a Condo in as good a location?
clearly he didnt get 820/sqft.
"Despite verbal assurances from the seller’s brokers that the sellers would “of course” remedy this noise issue, they refused to put anything in writing, and rejected without comment our rider which stipulated that the noise be brought to code."
Welcome to the reality of real estate.
What you see is what you get.
It's like Oprah's advice for women about men: YOU CANNOT CHANGE THEM. Either accept them as they are, or move on.
A crude skimming of the listings in contract show most below $1,000/sq ft.
Yes, we will close at 830 sq ft.
Egan, no closings have taken place yet. We are hoping it will be next week.
>It's like Oprah's advice for women about men: YOU CANNOT CHANGE THEM. Either accept them as they are, or move on.
NYCMatt, where do you fit in to that equation?
any suggestions for the HVAC units? can they be pushed back?
has anyone closed on a unit here? what are your thoughts about living here?
dissapointedBidder - regarding the noise level, just curious...wouldn't you be able to complain to the Department of Buildings if in fact the decibel level is higher than allowed by code? At that point they would have to rectify the issue or keep getting fined.
UESaptowner... have you closed yet? how was the whole process?
@ Ekartash - yes closed on unit. We are very happy mainly about the neighborhood. The apartment is great too. are you looking to purchase there too?
We are looking at the building. Your post makes it seem as though you are not that thrilled about the apt/building. Anything specific?
Would you mind emailing me. My handle at mac.com
hey guys: did anyone have any issues with their bank not closing due to the presence of a temporary certificate of occupancy and not a permanent one. Chase is unwilling to close with a TCO..
> It's like Oprah's advice for women about men: YOU CANNOT CHANGE THEM. Either accept them as they are, or move on.
Finally something that I can agree on w/matt re: RE. Yes, "What you see is what you get."
Not fearmongering but where you see one cockroach, there is usually ....
@Breddy: are you asking in general or specifically to 233Pacific Street. I currently live at 233 Pacific and my bank had no issue. There are more than 14 apartments which have already closed in this bldg, and probably close to 2/3 of them have mortgages (if not more). and btw this building has a CofO.
@ UESaptowner: thank you! Chase was misinformed..they know about the TCO. the building does not have a permanent CofO yet..anyway, its all straightened out and they are ok with a Temporary CO and we hope to close within the next day or two.
Any particular recs on a microwave model that fits the specs and dimensions of the allocated space in these units..we just closed and are in the middle of moving and cant seem to find a decent model that fits the dimensions of the allocated cabinet for the microwave..thx!
Put a toaster oven up there and get a decent microwave for the counter surface.
@ bharat.... we bought this one: there's a couple inches left on top and on side, but otherwise fits well.