in turn they will all realize buying is better and will flock into the market. Bullish, would you say?

I got stuck with a 1.7% increase for my renewal starting July 1.

I had Ino negotiate for me and I got 10% off fair market rent.

I paid a broker 1 month rent for a lease that was about 15% under-market, with pre-negotiated escalations for 3 years. Oh no, the sky is falling.

someone must have been reading CitiHabitat crap rather then looking at reality

My landlord hasn't raised the rent since 2007! The suckers are people who freshly arrived to NY and have no option other than taking @ market price what's being offered to them! When you don't know your options and are out of time, you get screwed!

It's a 6 apts building! She bought the building in the 80's and the mortgage is all paid off so she has no pressure from the banks to get greedy with her tenants!

so you really have a sugar mommy. any services you provide? did she give you that name?

blue pill brooks, blue pill

brooksie is a matrix geek. red pill for truth, blue pill for 'you belive whatever you want to'. or the other way around

On equitable's website for trump place rentals their best deal is 3200 for a small one bedroom
on a low floor, presumably with no view.. Rents are firming and moving higher.

http://www.equityapartments.com/bbrochure.aspx?PropertyId=3989&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=newyorkmetroproperties_trumpplace&s_kwcid=TC|4015|trump%20place||S|e|9059970673

That $3200 is up from $3095 two months ago. The two year dip has ended. Unless we all get sugar momma status like sledghammer, back to reality.

the problem is no NY's are moving....rents are high and it sucks if you need to move...

Rents have been going up YOY for like 12 months in a row. Forget Citi or even JMiller. Look at the OFFICIAL government inflation statistics for rents in the NYC area. They have been up every month YOY since 2Q2011. In fact,the rate of increase has been increasing.

So unless you think the Federal Government is in on this conspiracy too, then no, sorry, rents are going up.

Not a lot, mind you. But up.

http://www.bls.gov/ro2/cpinynj.htm

"On equitable's website for trump place rentals their best deal is 3200 for a small one bedroom
on a low floor, presumably with no view.. Rents are firming and moving higher."

I must have taken the wrong pill. This 661 sq ft listing is the one that Riversider posted at $3205:

http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/589d0a8771fb234d8efed51339154235.html

Here it is the same thing (sq ft, line, floor range) listed at $3315 last year:

http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/505011272d68e63ea4470596a69f8640.html

Here's another one in Riversider's building listed at $3610 this year:

http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/616706d6f8df907aa0d263f7f33f60cb.html

And at $3615 last year:

http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/28533d2960b2a5f909f9e49db837d85a.html

This one is $3530 this year:

http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/a6206740e673730368e716a0f301039f.html

And $3715 last year:

http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/5e7e2ed076119a326383e76ef3488033.html

Here are the 2BRs. This one listed at $5505 this year:

http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/e41926f7c3ae35221524b7c5d42d8463.html

And a pair of listing in that line this time last year for $5665 and $5820:

http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/b61a6941cab5b61df4d71f07220be6d0.html
http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/51002c4101a8129b4ce761d2e33c22dc.html

Another 2BR line. This one listed at $5730 this year:

http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/7c41ad0a086c59c807f808263e2381af.html

And at $5890 last year:

http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/c8cd433f2d42180efe81f312ec1c5ffe.html

One matching studio, listed at $2910 this year:

http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/e24d4fc947354e2954fea7393a880c39.html

And $2930 last year:

http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/e24d4fc947354e2954fea7393a880c39.html

Hurry, can someone call up Equity Residential and tell them about how rents are up? Apparently, they're out of the loop and are leaving money on the table.

Worse, they are bringing down schadenfreude of SE posters who have been going year upon year upon year bleeding negative carry with no capital appreciation to make up for it, all the while seeing stocks and bonds and pretty much every other asset go up. Can't we at least give them the crumb of a $100 rent increase somewhere in one of the lines?

You go inonada! Thanks!

YES!! who doesnt love collecting a full 15% of the annual fee from these renters!!!

It's Riversider's choice of building bub, not mine. Ask him. Perhaps if I too had taken the blue pull, I could rationalize that the neigborhood has dropped so massively in desirability that it registered a 5% drop over the last year as compared to a 10% rise elsewhere. I'd then pop another blue pill if someone asked why we didn't see the same 15% spread in sales price changes in that 'hood vs. elsewhere.

Anyways, here's to another year of grinding your teeth while sucking down on more negative carry. "I'm sure inonada will get hit this year and my life will be validated."

Yes. I guess I was right about the negative carry and teeth-grinding then.

Nada, These rentals all seem to be >$5 per sq ft per month even if you take the sq footage at face value. Some pictures in streeteasy listings show white appliances if that is an indication of general quality of the finishes. So I would call it barely luxury rental but not a luxury condo. With $1100 per sq ft, it is giving you $4.5 per month per million. Whatever happened to $2.5-3.5 per million for basic luxury 1 and 2 b/rs.

Nada, my niece has been looking for a 2br/2bth, and I must tell you that there is no way that she, or I, have been finding $2,500/mo rents per $1,000,l000 apartments. Not happening.

ph41, nada takes a $3mm condo listing (not actual average sale price) apart which once in a while for short periods (1-2 years) of time may be rented for $8-10k and extrapolates it to all real estate market.

I still don't get it. Say a low tax/maint of $1.5/ft. so you net about $36/ft that cost you $1100-1200. A 3% return for an asset with high transaction costs, illiquid market and lots of management headaches. Why not just buy a NYC triple tax exempt muni? And that assumes that you have a tenant 12 months out of every year, yet perfection is an impossibility.

Mercer, great misdirection. You're learning well from RS. What CC said.

On "these rentals all seem to be >$5 per sq ft per month", you got some math trouble. This one, somewhere between floors 16-20, is asking $4.8 ppsf. Kick it down 5% for no-fee, an down another 5% between free month(s) and/or negotiations (operative word is ask), it starts hitting $4.3 ppsf. Even at that, not a great price (just decent) unless it has a river view.

But why bother with those when you can go north a few buildings for a better location and nicer finishes? Here's 11C asking $4 ppsf:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/846835-condo-220-riverside-boulevard-lincoln-square-new-york

Asking price on same apt 2 floors above (14C rather than 11C) is $1148:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/591726-condo-220-riverside-boulevard-lincoln-square-new-york

Delusional? Perhaps, but 11C itself sold for $1125 ppsf in June 2006, and SE index would move it to $1092 ppsf.

And remember, that $4 ppsf is _asking_ for a unit that has been on the market since February.

"Nada, my niece has been looking for a 2br/2bth, and I must tell you that there is no way that she, or I, have been finding $2,500/mo rents per $1,000,l000 apartments."

ph41, $2500 rent per $1M apts isn't realistic in the market that your niece has been looking at, nor the market that you are in. You have to be at a higher price point. At those price points, doing $3500-$4000 rent per $1M apt should be easy with some effort, extremely rare (and usually involving special circumstances) to go below $3000.

For example, staying in the RSB neighborhood here is 45C asking $5900 for 1325 sq ft at 200 RSB but offering a free month, let's call it $5600:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/847906-condo-200-riverside-boulevard-lincoln-square-new-york

Recent sale in line (40C) went for $1.75M:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/578698-condo-200-riverside-boulevard-lincoln-square-new-york

Works out to $3200 rent per $1M using the $5600 effective rent, or $3370 rent per $1M if you want to ignore the free month and the possibility of negotiations.

What kind of rents per $1M are you and your niece finding, ph41?

AvUWS, do your math on that last one I posted. Net is $3000 a month on a $1.75M apt (2%) before upkeep & management & transaction costs.

"which once in a while for short periods (1-2 years) of time may be rented"

300_mercer, that apt I last posted was for rent previously in 2009 and was recently rented again after 3 years. Please extrapolate for us why I should expect that apt was only available for rent for 1-2 years.

I think people are being very short sighted. will rents be higher next year ? what about the next ?

The rent to buy ratio for Manhattan (and SF proper) are the only two places in the US where every expert says its cheaper to rent. So rents ARE going up, yes, but ALSO its still cheaper to rent, all else equal. They can both be true of sales prices are going up at the same or faster pace than rents.

nada, you make the blanket statement of $2,500 rent per million sale price. That should hold true for almost any market.

My nephew and niece are relocating from Philadelphia, with an 18 month old and another on the way.
He's starting a very good job, but not huge huge money. They HATE prewar, and are just looking for nice place to live in a "safe" area as he will be traveling. Sticking to the west side for a somewhat unusual reason - the number of subway systems that can be accessed by elevator (I kid you not - stroller a major issue).

Seems to be mostly >= $4,000 per million Usually at least $4,500

PH: Tower 67. Brodsky, Glenwood. They have a lot of buildings on the West Side.

The cheapest buildings (postwar, doorman) on the UWS seem to be Brodsky-operated 55/75 WEA and Tower 67. The Trump rentals are all pricier - the cheapest 2b, 2b run 5k+. Might get a low floor 55/75 WEA/Tower 67 for closer to 4k.

Or maybe look at junior-4s. Put up a wall.

The stroller/elevator thing is incomprehensible. With 2 kids, they will be sticking to their neighborhood for activities. Anything further away, the bus is preferable. Elevators break down. What are you going to do if the elevator is broken at the other end and you have a ginormous stroller with you? If you take the subway or bus, hold the toddler by the hand and have the baby in a baby carrier. Or cab around if not reachable by either easily or in a rush. My kids all learned to stick out their hand for cabs and yell "Taxi!" before the age of 2.
And you get good at bumping a single (not double!) stroller down 2 flights of subway steps, if need be.

I love the UWS, but there are no bargains to be had here if you're fixated on postwar rentals and proximity to elevatored subways. Save your money by getting a cheaper rental elsewhere and spend the difference on cabs.

Oh, I have to agree with nyc10023. Planning any decision around subway elevator access w/ a stroller is a BAD (how big can i make those letters?) idea!! The easiest existence is 1) walking around your neighborhood w/ stroller or 2) taking cabs. If they HAVE to take the subway or bus, I would recommend a very lightweight stroller that can be folded and carried along with the two kids. See what we're getting at here? 2 kids + stroller + bags + sippy cups and cheerios falling out of your pockets = WHY?? They should choose their neighborhood wisely (and plan to stick to it).

"nada, you make the blanket statement of $2,500 rent per million sale price. That should hold true for almost any market."

Look, hell if I know what's in the minds of people. In Florida, you can buy 1BRs at $65K that rent for $950 a month. Works out to $14,600 monthly rent per $1M. And I showed you $3200 monthly rent per $1M in a squeeky-clean UWS 2BR that should be right up your niece's alley. And you go up a ways from that $5600-5900 monthly rent, you start seeing $2500 monthly rents per million.

Why? Who cares. Focusing on the crap apts that linger for $4500 monthly rent per $1M might make you & 300_mercer feel real good, but at the end of the day wouldn't you rather see your niece & family saving $25K a year paying $5600-5900 rather than $8000 for that $1.75M apt?

inonada, are you a quant? calculating these luxury rents and purchases is nauseating...and pointless...go see them instead of reading stat lines online, you will see why some are priced high and get it while others sit...you have to physically be IN the apt to get it....then you can throw your numbers out the window....

angeloz, what the hell are you talking about?

I gotta be inside the unit that RS posted as evidence of rising rents despite former ads from them showing lower same-unit rents compared to last year?

Or inside 40c vs 45c at 200 RSB to be able to say something about their price vs rent?

I have been in both 140 RSB and 200 RSB. Not these exact apt, but same lines & similar floors. Good enough?

NYC10023 - Tower67 convertible 2 BR (alcove) 2 bath - $4,900!!!

Sorry - Junior 4 - $4,900

>UWSMOM, and NYC10023 - believe me,I have tried to tell them that, many times, paticularly because the husband's office will be on the east side. All those reasons why the elevator thing doesn't really make sense, that most things will be done walking around the neighborhood, and that you don't use those heavy mercedes type strollers, but get a light weight one, and have the baby carried on your chestl

. All the advice fell on deaf ears. and they are winding up in what I consider an extremely overpriced junior at Tower 67 for $4,900.

I gave up - don't want to alienate them, though I think the whole thing is ridiculous.

Though even at the Columbia, a much larger 2br/2bth would have been $4,500

They didn't get a good deal at Tower67. What's done is done. I'll be curious to see if they schlep much on the elevator.

From what I've seen, the nice rentals are getting (bigger) increases, especially if it's a managment company like Glenwood or Equity Residentials. I know it's not true for every situation. You're best off renting from a coop or condo owner who is only a landlord of that one property. Or if your unit isn't as desirable to begin with (low floor, no views, small, etc.) those are more negotiable.

I actually avoided a significant rent increase by buying recently. My landlord rented it out for 20% more than what I was paying. It was a large Junior 4 with all updated appliances and sweeping city and river views in a luxury building. Not that I'm saying buying is better, that was just my experience!

NYC10023 - the positive is that the apartment, though a junior 4, has 2 full bathrooms. And last summer, she did schlep on the elevator.

I still can't believe the whole thing, including the price of the apartment.

A lot of it was driven by their having spent last summer one block away in a fabulous apartment at a ridiculously low rental. Set the bar too high when it came time to relocate permanently.

I am paying 40% more to rent over the 6 FL studio I sold last year. The brand new studio is on 40th Fl overseeing the rivers, with washer/dryer, gourmet kitchen and spa bath. In addition, the door man building has a well maintained gym, top floor lounge for dinner parties and sun deck. Although I'm paying more on rental, these are the amenities I can never afford from a comparable new condo purchase. Bottom line is I'm paying a lot to rent, but in terms of value, the splurge may still be worth it, for now.

that must be a stellar 3br for 5k. besides ino would have gotten it for 4500

you have a living room in there or you turned it into one of the bedrooms?

"It will take a 22% drop to return median single-family house prices to the trend identified by Robert Shiller of Yale University that stretches back to the 1890s and prevailed until the housing bubble began. (It adjusts for inflation and the tendency of houses to get bigger over time.) And corrections usually overshoot on the downside just as bubbles do on the upside." - A. Gary Shilling

ph41, What happened to apt nada suggested? It was on the UWS. There must be similar deal available.

300: for a 2b2b, it's hard to go under 5k on the UWS (postwar, doorman). The way to get a deal is to target all listings above 5k, and lowball a few.

Nothing - that was Truth's nephew's restriction.

Typo - meant ph41's nephew's restriction.

logic and math make angeloz a sad boy. and his head hurt too. pointless he say. here is one for stevie, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!

> nyc10023 - it's not Tower 67. Can't remember the name of the building, it's a very full service rental building. Supposedly full 2br/2bth there go for $8,000/mo.

Yikes, did it traumatize you to have your rent jacked by $50 like that? What a tough pill.