ok does this make sense if allowed.. buying the apartment above me and combining into a duplex. both apartments currently 2 bedrooms 1.5 baths with no formal dining area in prime upperwestide block. could potentially be a 4 bedroom 3-4 bath with full laundry room. my concerns .. would be the largest apt in the blding.. currently they go up to 3 bedrooms. and upper westside coop. not a white glove building. assuming purchase would be around 1mm..

How would the combined maintenance compare to other four-bedroom apartments in the area?

We have friends who just did it with the apartment below them, also in a nice, low-service/non-doorman building on a prime UWS block. The project was painful; the result is great. Their likely hold period is at least eight years, so resale isn't an immediate concern.

Vertical combinations are almost always MUCH more complex than horizontal ones, and a staircase takes up a lot of expensive space. Do it if you really want a duplex. If you just need more space, and an adjacent apartment isn't available on your floor, it might make more sense to sell and move.

maint in line.. would be total 3500

thanks my intent would be to buy... combine an then sell. it's all about the money. i don't need the space. i've just done my apt and with a little tweaking the kitchen would totally work. maybe just open up some walls. i estimate the cost to combine 300k.

am i being realistic? my apt value current is see as 1.2mm ( totally renovated ) cost to purchase 1mm + closing and mansion tax. renovation 300k possible resale 3.5mm? total living space appx 2400 square feet

Is combing into a duplex like a combover for balding men?

:-)

It might work out, assuming demand for large apartments remains strong. For an example see 514 WEA #8/9A, which brought $4MM at the top of the market, in a modest coop comprised mostly of 4- and 5-room apartments. The same duplex resold for 10% less in 2010 - still a pretty good result for the building.

thank you west 81...

I don't work that often at that price point, but I'm gonna vote no. It feels to me like the days of combining a couple of apartments and generating a million dollars out of thin are over. For one, there's other stuff a buyer could look at at the $3.5mm price point which has other advantages -- newer, all on one floor, outdoor space, whatever.

Second, we're starting to live in a world where there are very few people who have $3.5mm to spend on an apartment who don't have $5mm. To those buyers, a 2400-square foot prewar where $300K has been spent on renovations isn't "nice" enough.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

I would also worry at that price point that being non white glove (is it also non-doorman?) could be a turnoff...

thanks but keep in mind the floor with the kitchen has been totally renovated and with higher end finishes i.e 36" viking and subzero

doorman from 8-12midnight

"and a staircase takes up a lot of expensive space"

They could dump one of the extraneous bathrooms, assuming it wouldn't create problems with pipes.

From someone who has annexed up, the structural support can be very complex and expensive.

A straight staircase will take up a lot of room, and a spiral could turn off buyers.

What about a spiral would turn people off? Just curious.

I think people underestimate the amount of room a staircase consumes. Unless you go the spiral route, which I don't think many will tolerate at that price point, you're losing a ton of space on both floors. Some storage is possible under the staircase on the first floor, but the space on the second floor vanishes.

I haven't seen the apartment, but I tend to agree with front_porch on this one. I'd take a long, hard look at what's available at $3.5MM -- if your combination isn't significantly better than what's already out there, then it seems like a risk not worth taking. By the time you close on the other apartment, get board approval, get permits and actually do the construction, you'll be well into 2013 and who knows what the market will be like at that point.

I'd also step back and ask myself if it was that easy to make a million bucks, why aren't more people doing it?

A lot of people don't like the tightness of spiral stairs -- difficult to maneuver if you're a child, an older person, a pet (esp. a large dog), overweight, or not in the best health. Spirals are not so much an issue in one beds, but can become a big issue in larger apartments. Moving things from floor to floor is also more difficult.

My current apartment is the second one I've had with a spiral stair. I like them - find them visually interesting as well as efficient. In the first place I sold with spiral stairs, in an area where floorplans are not commonly posted, literally half of the people who came to open houses walked in the door, saw the staircase, and walked right out.

Right, a spiral doesn't work in a multi-bedroom in a city where people put helmets on their kids just to ride a push-bike a few inches off the ground. Look at the trouble these people had in selling a three-bedroom: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/651457-coop-246-west-end-avenue-lincoln-square-new-york

As bb10024 describes the building, it sounds something like http://img.streeteasy.com/nyc/image/5/4194105.gif. I.e., little superfluous space to squeeze in a proper staircase.

Nevertheless, given the huge premium (still) for larger apartments, it might work. $300K doesn't sound nearly enough for the work, though.

Somehow to me it doesn't make sense that one duplex can cost more than two separate renovated units of the same size? Even the owners of the building where I live converted almost all duplexes to two separate units. I guess they did their math, and I'm talking about UWS with 24/7 doorman.

It depends on the market for different sizes of apartment at different times.

Just given the household-size demographics of Manhattan, in most periods two smaller apartments would rent for more than one apartment of twice the size.

For quite a while, though, the opposite's been true, in many neighborhoods.

bb10024,
Have you considered the 2 stringer option with landing? We just built one in February. 6' by 8' cut out. If you're willing to give up that space, it's a better option than spiral.

i really wouldnt call 246 west end ave prime uws though..