Talk » Sales » Discussing '300 west 23rd street'
 

SAVE    RSS 300 west 23rd street

70 comments
Ignored comment. Unhide

?????

It's an extremely nice building, meticulously well-maintained, but $2,000,000 in liquid assets to buy a studio there? I don't think so. Is it possible you could you have misunderstood?

I think a misunderstanding is quite possible.

We looked at the building and were never told anything like that. The Streeteasy page for the building says 80% financing allowed, so I think it's a misunderstanding.

The studios seem to have lucked out with the share allocation, but the one bedroom apartments in this building tend to trade at a discount because of the super-high maintenance. It's probably the highest in the neighborhood. I haven't kept up with maintenance increases in the big buildings, but when we we looked 2 - 2.5 years ago, the maintenance for the one bedrooms was even higher than London Terrace, which has far more amenities.

Allow me to elaborate - most (if not all) co-ops require liquid assets after down payment so you can cover your monthlies for an extended period of time should you lose any income. Some fancier co-ops require a net worth in multiples of the purchase price to ensure even more stability. However, these co-ops aren't the type that permit 80% financing, but rather limit financing to 0-65% max. Moreover, these co-ops aren't located on the corner of 23rd and 8th avenue directly above the PetCo and Vitamin Shoppe (sic).

You should email the broker and ask him for the co-op's financial requirements.

Who said that? Patrick?

Almost bought an Apartment there with/for one of my kids. I never heard anything like those requirements. By far my favorite pre-war Chelsea co-op. Well maintained; beautiful lobby And as mentioned the studios are favore financially.

Ignored comment. Unhide

I would think that since you don't have much other income they are looking for the return on your assets to produce enough income for you to live comfortably there,

Riccardo, you do *not* need the listing broker's permission to submit an offer. In fact, if you submit an offer, he is required by law to convey that offer to the seller.

If you love the building, and you feel can afford it, go for it. The board will decide if your finances are proper, *NOT* the listing broker.

Riccardo,

1st - it sounds like a complete misunderstanding with the broker, that building cannot possibly have that rule in effect.
2nd - if it's not a misunderstanding, the broker is not doing his/her job correctly
3rd - don't be shy. If you want it. Go for it.

I agree that Riccardo should not be shy, BUT the broker may be trying to help him present his finances and situation in the most favorable light.

There is a "packaging" need here, in my opinion, and Riccardo sounds like a buyer who could use the help of a broker -- not necessarily the one he met.

(And, no, I'm not a broker.)

Riccardo, 66-year olds can "fit" into any co-op in Chelsea, so I doubt that is an issue. Financials do matter, though.

While I agree with Isle_of_Lucy that if you like it, go for it and let the seller and board determine your qualifications, I would caution that the asking price on 14I seems quite high. #16I sold for $360k in 2010, and #41 (albeit on a much lower floor) is in contract with an asking price of $329. The sellers of #14I (over)paid $555k for this studio at the absolute top of the market in July of 2008. #14I should now probably trade for somewhere in the low to mid $400k range...

If you are seriously looking in Chelsea and need help navigating buildings and financials, why don't you enlist the help of Ali aka front_porch? She and her firm specialize in downtown, and she tends to give trusted and worthwhile advice. It would probably give you greater ease (and certainly more privacy) than posing very specific questions to the streeteasy board.

They are clearly taking into account the fact that you have virtually no income. This makes sense. If you have multiples of the purchase price in liquid reserves, it is more than likely that you will be able to keep up with the monthly maintenance indefinitely, even if you outspend your social security checks.

OP - If you like the apartment , agree you should seek the services of a good broker and perhaps an attorney to make sure you are able to show all your assets and income. A co-op board may not discriminate against an applicant for, among other things, age, sexual orientation, or any lawful source of income. http://www.nyc.gov/html/cchr/html/housing.html

Ignored comment. Unhide

Focus on issues that exist; don't invent them. I lived in Chelsea for 20 years, now live in one neighborhood over to the south, and am well-versed in NYC coops. I find it extraordinarily unlikely that being 66 and gay matters in the slightest to the board of the building you are discussing. Or any coop I'm familiar with in the area, to be frank.

What they and other coops care about--after determining you would be a respectful decent neighbor--is finances. That's it. Can you afford the place now and in the future. Period. What are your assets, what is your income stream, what is your debt-to-income ratio. Could you afford a special assessment if one were levied?

If one is retired, the focus on financial wherewithall becomes even more intense since your assets are essentially fixed for ever. For someone with only social security income, I'd want to see A LOT of assets that they could draw down for decades without running out after the purchase is made. Ideally there would be a well-diversified retirement portfolio of investments which generate a relatively stable stream of income in addition to the SS.

You are a fish out of water in the NYC RE world, and as we've said in past threads, it seems like finding a broker you trust would be a very wise way for you to proceed.

Ignored comment. Unhide

I think you are putting too much weight on what this one broker said (or at least what you believed he said). My suggestion would be to put in a bid on the place you already like, or work with a broker who specializes in the area and can make recommendations based on your financial package. You don't need to have four times the sale price in reserves to be admitted but will need to have sufficient cushion in reserves when you have no income, more like 4 years of maintenance in liquid assets.

Riccardo, just from following your posts, I think your best bet is to get a nice rental in Chelsea, see how you like the area/neighborhood, and then buy in a year or two. I think buying will seem a lot less intimidating then. I couldn't imagine buying when I first moved to New York, but over time, it became much less intimidating.

I know you liked London Terrace Towers, and the great thing is that London Terrace Gardens has very similar (some would argue better) rental apartments.

Ignored comment. Unhide

Riccardo
When I was looking in the area the follwing agent was the things you are looking for; he dealt more with the Chelsea/Village border but he'll give you the straight scoop

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/contact/59637-richard-j-ingenito

Ignored comment. Unhide

So you have 60k a year in income and $105,120 in the bank ($876 x 120). Not only can't you afford this apartment, it will be difficult for you to live in manhattan at all unless you find some sort of senior housing.

Ignored comment. Unhide

Look: I know you are so enthusiastic about this move and it is hard feeling hopes gets dashed. But it is all part of NYC RE. It is generally very unpleasant, but the good news is that you require only one place to live--not 20! You WILL figure this all out. I think renting to begin is an ideal solution. You get to truly feel out a neighborhood, a block, a building. You will come to see what you truly value in NYC and what you can compromise on. Even the rent/buy decision can become clearer. These are things you can get a small sense of by visiting, but living here is really a whole different level of understanding the city and finding how you want to make a life here. I think renting is a great way to begin.

Ignored comment. Unhide

Tudor City is probably further from the Theater District than Chelsea. It is on the East Side, and while it's a perfectly pleasant place, it's very much a sequestered neighborhood and not very vibrant. If you are attracted to the allure of NYC, you may be underwhelmed by Tudor City.

I think you are characterizing Chelsea using an increasingly outdated stereotype. Most of the younger gay crowd have moved up to the more affordable Hell's Kitchen as Chelsea has gotten increasingly expensive. Hell's Kitchen might in fact be a great option for you. I personally don't love it, but it is far nicer than its reputation and name, and it has many buildings with alcove studios and outstanding views. Plus, there's still a fair amount of diversity, and of course, it's very close to / almost part of the Theater District. And you never know, some of those pretty boys may in fact have brains and be attracted to a Daddy-type of a certain age, especially the hungry actors!

Yes, Chelsea definitely skews older gay relative to Hell's Kitchen. And, as happened in the West Village, I'm seeing more and more anecdotal evidence of gays moving out of Chelsea to be replaced by straight families with young children. School district is not a factor for us, but my neighbors with children rave about PS11.

Riccardo, I think your experience in Chelsea will be very dependent on what building you select. If you go with an older, pre-war, established rental building that does not allow temporary walls, you're likely to fit right in. If you go with a newer building, a building that allows temporary walls, etc., you're likely to get more of the "pretty boys with no brains" crowd. Though I have to say, Chelsea is so expensive that you need to have a brain to afford to live here unless dad and/or daddy is paying your rent. (And there are plenty of those situations....)

There are 6 big factors to consider in NYC RE. You must prioritize them. You are unlikely to be able to afford a place that meets all 5 requirements. Achieving any one of them is pricey--all 5 is nearly impossible:
-Desired Location
-Building Quality
-Layout
-Views
-Light
-Budget

Until you rank these, you'll be lost. The priorities drive the search. For example, you may decide:
1. Budget = no more than $3,200/mo.
2. Location = somewhat flexible on west side from Chelsea up to Lincoln Center area.
3. Layout = studio with an alcove but willing to settle for simply studio without alcove
4. Building Quality = safe and clean but not necessarily with a doorman
5. View = anything that looks New York-y
5. Light = unimportant

This type of list helps you and a broker if you work with one. For example, yes, you like prewar apartments, charm and views, but more important is the location, layout and staying within the budget. So type of building, light and views need to be areas you would compromise if it means achieving the priorities.

First step for you is determining your budget and the max you will pay for rent + utilities (gas/electric/cable/phone) + renters insurance per month. Once you do that, others may be able to better access which areas are available to you and might be places you would like to live.

Ignored comment. Unhide

I meant to be clear there are 6 factors to consider--sorry I wrote 5 in some places and 6 in others. Aslo, last line of my last post should say "assess," not "access."

Tudor city is kind of isolated. Agree that you might like Hell's Kitchen, which is pretty affordable. Keep in mind that 23rd is a major street, which can get annoying. But definitely start off in a short-term furnished rental in the area you are considering before making the plunge. If you wanted something a little different you could also consider Fort Greene, where BAM is. Culturally very nice and good subway access.

Ignored comment. Unhide

If you go with agent you will have to pay 15% of the yearly rent as a fee. If you want to do that then try and see who works in the neighbourhood and contact them. If you're brave you could just post another thread asking for a broker for Hells Kitchen and you'll get lots of suggestions. There are also a lot of new construction buildings near the water that you could look at if you want newer with amenities.

You might like the Parc Vendome (twin of London Terrace, but a condo). I have a tenant in place, but the building has a lot of studios so I'm sure something will open up.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Ignored comment. Unhide

Yes Riccardo I am happy to help.If you Google me, you may find my book about NYC real estate, which I also think you'd enjoy.

Ali

The Parc Vendome is a terrific idea. It's very close to both the theater district and Central Park, and the building is quite striking. The layouts, including studios, tend to be more generous. Like London Terrace (same architect), the residents feel a strong connection to the building and sense of pride and community which makes for friendlier and more courteous neighbors. Plus, you will be renting from an owner so the apartment will be more unique (and potentially nicer) than apartments in other pre-war rental buildings.

Ignored comment. Unhide

Ricardo - if you've managed to locate the places yourself why use an agent? Maybe there is a no fee, or an owner renting directly on Craigslsit or something.

Ignored comment. Unhide
Ignored comment. Unhide
Ignored comment. Unhide
Ignored comment. Unhide
Ignored comment. Unhide
Ignored comment. Unhide

Ricardo, you don't want to be in the 30s on the West side, where it is a little scuzzy. You want to be north of Port Authority, which is where scuzziness begins and is not the most comfortable place to walk at night. On West side in the 40s there are some beautiful tree-lined streets between 8-10th ave. So try and get around here. Into the 50s is fine for your purposes as well. Subway is on 8th I think. Going crosstown here though is a bit of a pain as you have to fight through the tourists at Times Square. I lived at 50th and 9th for a summer and location was pretty good. Not my cup of tea (I like downtown) but loads of restaurants, lively, etc. So suggest limiting your search to 40-59th St.

Ignored comment. Unhide
Ignored comment. Unhide

And Ottawa - you have no idea what you are talking about with regard to the west 30s. Riccardo - you would be wise to ignore Ottawa on this one. The buildings you mentioned on west 34, and the neighborhood in general, would fine for a gay man in his 60s. In fact, if I had a dollar for ever gay man in his 60s living in the west 30s......

And the basketball courts and sex toy shops near 6th ave and Bleeker make that area a total shithole. Does that taint the whole west village?

Ignored comment. Unhide

kylew so patient so informative as always. OP, you are coming across as green as a pea pod. do some real research with your feet and online.

Ignored comment. Unhide
Ignored comment. Unhide
Ignored comment. Unhide
Ignored comment. Unhide

Congrats Ricardo! You'l also be able to enjoy strolls along the Highline, which has really invigorated the area.

Riccardo - sign up for broadwaybox.com. Good discounts on shows that have not yet opened (saw some great shows in preview) as well as discounts for current shows.

Riccardo, do not offer more than $400K for a studio in that building.

OK, I just checked out the photos and layout. I'll admit, it's an adorable little place with a cute little kitchen, and an ingenious way of actually carving out a tiny bedroom to give you enough separation from the living/kitchen area that you don't feel like you're living in a hotel room.

Not worth a penny over $450K, however. And even that is being generous.

Ignored comment. Unhide
Ignored comment. Unhide
Ignored comment. Unhide
Ignored comment. Unhide
Ignored comment. Unhide
Ignored comment. Unhide
Ignored comment. Unhide
Ignored comment. Unhide
70 comments

Add your comment