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Mayor Bloomberg Proposes 300-Square-Foot 'Micro' Apartments For New York City Singles
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-smallest-apartments-yet-are-being-built-in-new-york-city-and-its-just-300-square-feet-2012-7#ixzz20EkKE9ON
"Under current zoning laws, all apartments must be at least 400 square feet"
Wow. Young single people should be up in arms about this -- I bet there are thousands of youngish singles who would love to ditch the roommate and cut both their square footage and their rent in half.
In infamously-cramped Tokyo, it's trivially easy to find apartments marketed for single people that are under 20 m^2 (about 200 ft^2), and college students often go for 15 m^2. This makes it much, much easier to get started in one's professional life compared to in NYC where you've got potential roommate problems right from the beginning.
I had no idea that the smallest apartments in the city were so big. The condo I live in (with the Mrs.) is 405 square feet. It isn't particularly tiny. Come on, Mr. Mayor, drop that "micro" definition a little more. 300-sf is "small"; "micro" is more like 100. A loft bed and living space below that. They exist, they're cheap, and the young folks who live in them like them that way.
Hahaha .. and that micro studio will require a 60x rent-to-income ratio ... the insanity
you will also need a permission to bring someone in.
phew Im just over micro
got to be kidding me
marco you graduated to a mini in yorkville?
Mr. Bloomberg said there is significant demand for smaller homes. New York City has 1.8 million one- and two-person households, but only one million studio and one-bedroom apartments, officials said. The crunch has led to a spate of illegally subdivided apartments.
The mayor said the apartments would be a good fit for New Yorkers who need something affordable and "don't entertain and need big space."
I think that this is a great idea. There are some people living in much smaller spaces and if the city can regulate the construction of small apartments, then it should meet the existing demand.
hahaha .. reminds me of the scene in Wanderlust .. "micro-loft" ... 8)
From the pic, it looks like there's a markup for a "kitchenette ?" .. why bother .. why bother to even have a shower stall or bathroom ... like a "hostel" .. just have a communal kitchen and bathroom on every floor :) ... and call it a "lux hostel" and get it over with .. the insanity
It's called an SRO.
Where does Bloomberg reside?
So many of my friends' kids who are only a few years out of college are sharing because that's all they afford. I love the idea of these small units....but come on, $2,000 a month for rent? If they can afford that, they would already to renting a place of their own. Maybe not in Manhattan but surely in the boroughs.
mutombonyc, he's at 17-19 East 79th: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/25/nyregion/25bloomberg.html
When I moved to NYC 35 years ago, the paper had lots of ads for SROs. I ended up staying six months in a $35-per-week room in a hotel at 166 West 75th. I didn't need a kitchen or lots of space, so it worked out fine. The desk clerk took messages, the maid kept it clean, etc.
old school.. sweet.
This makes a certain amount of sense. People no longer need space for large sodas, salt shakers or ashtrays, so they can easily thrive in less space than previous generations.
Re: This makes a certain amount of sense. People no longer need space for large sodas, salt shakers or ashtrays..
or winter coats at the rate we're going
"I had no idea that the smallest apartments in the city were so big. The condo I live in (with the Mrs.) is 405 square feet. It isn't particularly tiny."
Then you are clearly miscalculating the current size of your apartment. 400 square feet is barely inhabitable for ONE person.
re: Then you are clearly miscalculating the current size of your apartment.
Matt always the size queen
The current 400 ft² standard is when measured "within the perimeter walls", while condo ft² you see on SE includes walls, etc. The smallest for sale now are 505 ft².
To give it some context, there're lots of older studios and one-bedrooms smaller than that. E.g., 400 ft² in a standard 17' rowhouse with a 15' interior width would have a depth of 26', and we know most are less than that.
Agreed, I've seen TONS of apartments in the 300-350 square foot or less range.
Oops, I screwed up my SE query. Smallest new-construction condo is http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/622122-condo-461-west-150th-street-hamilton-heights-new-york at 455. There're some Trump hotel rooms at 420-something, but they don't count.
As smart as the soda ban
Check out the ads for some Tudor City studios for sale-most seem to average 300SF, but some weigh in at a mere 275!
And get this: A studio for sale in 424 East 57th Street (between 1st & Sutton, no less) measures only 250SF!
So these are would be deemed illegal sales? Since when? Very small apartments like these have always been on the market, & believe it or not, eventually do sell.
Of course they're small-but someone's got to get a toehold somewhere, & these do the trick very nicely for a young person 1st entering the market.
My 1st rental apartment, in 1981 was 1st floor front, in Cobble Hill on Atlantic Avenue, with the 18 wheelers whizzing by belching their smoke into my Windows (all 2 of them).
But you know what? in my eyes I could see nothing wrong with hit. My 1st place, only one stop away from
all Street where I worked...with countless subwat lines to get me there & back? To me this was nothing short of pure heaven.
This pure heaven was 9 feet wide by 22 feet long (but had exposed brick-woo-hoo!!!) & cost (sitting down now?): $272.25 a month! No, that's not a typo.
When my renewed my leawe a year later, it increased to a whopping $315.81. All kidding aside, wasn't so thrilled with that, but in retrospect what a joke.
As we were located right next door to & in front of Long Island College Hospital, I dubbed the building "Hospital View Gardens" (or The Gardens at Hospital View).
Which brings me to the next part of this story: My next door neighbor had a rear facing small duplex.
As she tells it, one day shortly after she moved in she was leaning against her kitchen island, having her morning coffee while gazing out the French doors which look out upon the Hospital's parking lot.
She wasn't prepared for what happened next.
Two metal doors flew open, & down the ramp came a corpse wheeled down on a stretcher, loaded into the truck & off it went.
She was dumbstruck- but only once as it became a quite frequent occurence.
I really miss those days-as will the new generation who undoubtedly will recall their 1st NYC housing experiences nostalgically as well.
Sorry for all the typos (a LOT of them)!
> or winter coats at the rate we're going
Or a chair, or a table, or a desk, or a bookcase :)
> Then you are clearly miscalculating the current size of your apartment. 400 square feet is barely inhabitable for ONE person.
Agree, 400 sqf is literally just big enough for a bed, the kitchen and a shower ...
Wow, 60+ posts today streeteasier. That's more than all of your posts before today. And you've been here since early 2010.
And as for our dear Mayor, who appears to be in the full throes of megalomaniacally "enhanced" dementia, who really knows what goes on behind the closed doors of the Bloomy Mansion?
I believe we're all well aware here of "thou who protest too much..."? (Spitzer, anyone?)
For all we know, at this very moment be could be ordering a harem of undocumented illegals to force feed him trans-fats, while hooked up intravenously to multiple 16 ounce bags of non-diet soda.6
All while wearing the requisite diaper, of course, while throwing a tantrum, kicking & squalling: "WAH!!! I WANT MY WET NURSE!!! WHADDAYAMEAN SHE HAS HER OWN CHILDREN TO FEED?!?.WHAT ABOUT ME, ME, ME?!? TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!!! WAH!!!"
20x20 is small but plenty for 1 person. I met some guys in paris once who were sharing a something that was 10x15. They made it work
> 20x20 is small but plenty for 1 person. I met some guys in paris once who were sharing a something that was 10x15. They made it work
Tommy, 20x20 is NOTHING. Have you seen the closets in Tokyo and HK ? However, we're talking about NYC and the US where we invented super-sizing ?
Nobody would want to live in such an apartment long term. If they get built they'll wind up as short term SRO's for vagrants, college kids looking to vacation and possibly wind up as a mini-slum. Sounds like a bad idea.
"20x20 is small but plenty for 1 person."
If that was JUST the main room.
We're talking about 20x15, which includes kitchen, bathroom, hallways, and closets.
the proposed apartments are in existance for many years under different zoning regulations and are called supported / affordable housing. they are all over the city and are geared for low income and primarily house one person. the city is paying rental subsedies for the units or section 8 rents. the buildings are well maintained and there is a low turn over of tenant. Changing the zoning low and allow the same size unit as a regular rental might pose a financial burden on any developer. The market should drive a rent that must be competative with other options (like rent sharing). In essence, there is no problem of supply of less expensive units in the Bronx or even Brooklyn. To propose such a structure for manhattan only is not a policy of solving housing price it is just a political favor that will go nowhere. Obviousely the champions of the idea have not visited the affordable units built by the city own HPD. perhaps a real public debate on the adoptability of the units to Manhattan and a new traget audience would be more appropriate. i would start with a market reasearch, focus group and a buisness plan rather than request for proposal which was issued by the city for the first building on east 27th street next to the hospital.
realtime - I don't think you get it. This isn't low income housing. It's just a code change to allow developers to build MARKET RATE studio rentals below the current rule of 450sf. There is a HUGE potential market for apartments such as these. Many many coops and older rental buildings, both pre-war and post war have sub 400sf and sub 300sf studios and there is a hot market for them - like the article says - entry level apartments. Theye were building tons of them in the 1920s and 1930s, and the point of the change is - why not build more of them today?
This has NOTHING to do with SROs or low income housing in the freakin Bronx.
Smallest rental I could find, searching at a random Tokyo real estate agent in my neighborhood:
*Seven point three* square meters. (78.6 ft², for you imperialists.)
Just $400 a month (would be half that if the neighborhood weren't so posh), but you'll have to make do with no bath (there are public ones still, though fewer than there used to be) and a kitchen that's right in the middle of the room. It looks like this used to be a bedroom that was part of a family residence, which in turn was or is the second floor above a store, that's now broken up into individual units.
A much more typical single person's residence is this one, 20 m² on the nose, and containing one room, one closet, plus a bathroom and kitchen. The bathtub is the smaller kind where you can't stretch your legs and have to keep your knees bent, but even big apartments have those.
At $900 a month in a very desirable part of town, it's a little on the high side. But if you're fresh out of school and have your first job in the city, you're not complaining. New York should build these by the million.
I live in a ~200 square foot studio (9' X 25'some parts are 8') apartment in soho and its plenty of space. I don't know why a twin bed was suggested, a queen would fit just fine. I also doubt they will be $2,000 or less, the demand would be too high and probably go up to $2,500.
"I live in a ~200 square foot studio (9' X 25'some parts are 8') apartment in soho and its plenty of space."
So you don't have a bathroom or kitchen?
I have a full sized bathroom and updated "kitchenette" against one of the walls (mini fridge/counter, sink/cabinet, and oven/microwave). I also have two large closets against the opposite wall. My living space is probably closer to 9' X 12X - a queen bed, chair, corner desk and console table.
West 34- i guess my post was unclear. this is a duplication of the same construction as affordable housing. Whoever wish to develop it will have to charge rent amount that will cover the cost of land and construction and profit that will not be compatative for younger people.
dnaz - pay no mind to Matt, he gets woozy from the thin air waaaaaay up there in Washington Heights.
Since you live in Soho you may not be familiar with Washington Heights. The WH motto is "Washington Heights...where big apartments are cheaper...but who cares!"
Thanks--I have been a "lurker" on SE for quite some time, but finally decided to join.
I guess my point was made (that you really only need 200 square feet and not 300). People would still pay $2000 a month or more for my apartment at this size (they already are) which means they could really charge $3000 for these 300 sq. feet places and there would still be a market.
I am familiar with washington heights in name and reputation only. I will stick to my 200 sq foot apartment any day of the week rather than adding 20 minutes each way to my commute, and loss of many evening festivities.
"People would still pay $2000 a month or more for my apartment at this size (they already are) which means they could really charge $3000 for these 300 sq. feet places and there would still be a market."
Dnaz, while I agree entirely about the livability of small spaces, I don't think rents can scale quite so linearly. It's more like there's a base price no matter how small the room -- as long as the occupant can rest their head -- and then more in proportion to the area. For example, an even smaller space half the size of yours might go for over $1000, or more than half of your rent, because all the basic functions of an apartment (place to sleep, eat, and wash) are still present. I know I'd choose a 100-ft² "cell" in SoHo for $1000 over a 200-ft² small room for twice the price, if I were single and wanted to live there.
Hi triple zero, I agree it is probably not linear. Besides the increase in sq footage (+~$300), I was also adding $$ based on the fact that these will be brand new (+~$200ish) with brand new appliances (+~$150) and amenities such as doorman/elevator (+~$150). I would then subtract around $100 for location, but its probably more. :)
"I will stick to my 200 sq foot apartment any day of the week rather than adding 20 minutes each way to my commute, and loss of many evening festivities."
If you call watching 20-somethings puking on the sidewalk an "evening festivity" ...
Uh oh, bring out the inflatable union rat.
Remember this micro lite apt?
Hi NYCMatt, actually the people puking on the sidewalk by my apartment have been in their 50s....not 20s. :)
Just saw the 34 Bethune pics. Wow! I was impressed not just with the very clever & efficient use of space-but the overall, very clean cut look of it.
I wish my 1st apartment was as cute as this one!
I'm sure it'll sell-& probably for not that much less than list; probably for all cash.
Nice cozy place-in a great area on a quaint street, & with an ultra reasonable monthly maintenance someone won't have to starve themselves to afford.
If I were 25, I'd be there in less than a heartbeat.
"Nice cozy place-in a great area on a quaint street, & with an ultra reasonable monthly maintenance someone won't have to starve themselves to afford.
If I were 25, I'd be there in less than a heartbeat."
No you wouldn't.
At that age, you wouldn't have the down payment or the income to pay the combined mortgage and maintenance.
This is not a "starter" apartment for a 20-something. It's a pied-à-terre for a 40-something.
The Simpsons did it:
Not to be outdone: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2022915/Smallest-apartment-America--800-month-shoebox-studio-Manhattan.html
Tokyo shall not be outdone either! This entry gets an asterisk because each room, while rented separately, is part of a shared house, but still, each room ranges from 3.6 to 4.3 square meters:
Room layout: http://rent.century21.jp/R0050020/index/PropId/115301-1661c
$400 per month for 39 square feet is just about the same cost per square foot as Mr. Tyler in Hell's Kitchen. And about 20 years ago, when the Japanese economy was humming, it was much more expensive than this.
*Five* square meters in Rome!
"The property, which is being described as the world's smallest apartment, lies in the heart of the Italian capital, which has become one of the world's most expensive cities for property, but is barely large enough to contain a single bed.
The owner of the bijou property says he has been inundated with queries since putting it on the market a few days ago."
Either New York has to get a lot more competitive regarding miserably tiny apartments -- think vertical, something we've always excelled at -- or
Boston Bloomberg, STOP ENCAPSULATING AMERICA'S YOUTH!!! Sign the petition! Fight the oppression!!!
Besides, square meters don't exist. That's some bizarro communist ism that France and Coca-Cola are trying to force upon us, by 1976.
>Coca-Cola are trying to force upon us, by 1976.
But what we have is a generation that can translate liters into ounces: everyone who sat with a 2 liter bottle of Coke at the table knows the number of equivalent ounces.
Back in the 90s crazy hampton days with 20 people in a house on any given weekend,I recall someone renting a closet for a share.
Not that anyone slept much but I did seem him snoozing there from time to time.
300 square feet is too small for a living space. My 2 car garage alone is 440 square feet.
What do you drive?
Here's a 185 sf condo, obviously not new construction:
The realtor's home page for the building describes "generous layouts".
You guys know what comes after MICRO right ? It's PICO ...
> My 2 car garage alone is 440 square feet.
Soc .. u should park the cars on the street and rent out your garage. Market is as "luxury, PICO-loft with a walk-up feel" .. or more like "walk-in" feel .. ROFLMAO