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I just sign a lease on a apartment yesterday afternoon paying a high broker's fee, and regretted it this morning.
They have still plenty of time to show the apartment to others, lease starts August 15.
I am tempted to stop the checks from being cashed- What's the worst that can happen to me?
If you have not yet received back a counter-signed copy, you do not yet have an executed contract, and you may legally revoke your signature. It's the equivalent of the LL not signing a lease that you have signed, no contract until it happens.
If the checks are cashier's, I don't think you can stop them. Otherwise, do it as precaution. A LL would be very dumb to cash a check without a binding lease, which they wouldn't have. A broker, less so, but still it'd be yours to get back legally.
I wouldn't be taking anyone's advice on this other than an attormey's.
Lease has been signed by both parties but the checks haven't been cashed yet I just made one certified check to the landlord who knows he may be a nice guy (it's a rental in a condo)
I really would like to get out of the deal there are just too many no fee apartments out there
It is Douglas elliman I'm just afraid the if I stop the check it will have repercussion on my future ability to rent or buy
What does that mean, do you have a counter-signed copy or not? A copy counter-signed but not delivered to you does not bind a contract.
Delivery from landlord not needed to form a lease contract here, if you signed then landlord can enforce under the statute of frauds. Signed by the party to be charged = YOU!
Wanderer, are you a lawyer? How does a signature by one party without delivery of a counter-signed copy constitute offer and acceptance? If I sign a lease and the LL does not deliver a counter-signed copy, how am I to know whether or not the LL has accepted my as a lessee?
No downside to trying to back out. Deliver a paper copy of a letter stating your intent to back out and stop payment on the check and certify this happened before you received any countersigned copy.
Rental market so hot, PDE will probably just move on and sign on the next guy. This isn't the same as a court date or not paying rent - affecting your future ability to rent or buy is excessively unlikely.
Acceptance occurs when landlord signs it not when tenant gets a copy.
On second thoughts acceptance may be when when Landlord mails, but it is before tenant gets the copy
The standard lease says something like "effective when delivered". Delivery can be either physical or constructive. The latter is when the landlord signs it and either mails it, hands it over to the broker, or otherwise puts it out of her control to get it back.
Look at it from the perspective of the landlord, if your situations were reversed, and it'll be clearer.
I'd just move in on the 15th and bear with it for a year, rather than pay to try to break it, make my name mud, etc.
Ouch Nada WRONG!
anyway, how does one "stop payment" on certified funds?
Ask nicely, he may let you out at this point, but he really doesn't have to
Also, OP, where are all of these "no fee" apartments you are finding?
The broker dropped off the signed copy at my building and now i have it here- I did tell her of my desire to back out and of course she email me back telling me that they are keeping the broker's fee, but it hasn't been cashed yet.
I do have the signed contract here. I feel like a fool for doing this rental, it is a unit on my floor and i would save on movers, but it's a high rent and by principle i'm against broker's fees and now i cannot forgive myself for spendong all this money in a fee.
I have over a month in my existing lease, no hurry to move out i just want to cancel the checks
again, how does one cancel bank checks?
jim only one is a bank check- the first month's rent- the others are regular checks
"On second thoughts acceptance may be when when Landlord mails, but it is before tenant gets the copy"
So do you mean it's too late for me to do anything?
You are legally bound by the lease at this point, then. Your legal course of action is to see if the LL would be willing to bilaterally cancel the lease. If so, you can be out of the lease. If not, you'll create a bunch of bad things if don't take posession. The LL would have the legal right to collect a lot more than just the first month's & deposit, read the default clause in your lease. Even if they do not pursue all that, they do have possession of your cashier's check which you cannot stop.
The broker is probably not owed a fee if contract is cancelled. So you may want to put a stop on that check until you see what the LL says about cancelling the lease.
"Ouch Nada WRONG!"
"The latter is when the landlord signs it and either mails it, hands it over to the broker, or otherwise puts it out of her control to get it back."
Giving it to your own agent is probably insufficient. Giving it to the tenant's agent is a different matter, I'd imagine.
got it- wll at least i will save on movers (apt is on my floor)
Yeah, probably best to just accept the bit of buyer's remorse you're feeling. Contract law is not on your side here, and going to LL with an awkward request at this point would embitter the relationship. They could say "sure", but it could be "sure, at a cost", or "no". The latter two would leave you in an even-worse situation. If I were the LL and feeling amicable, I'd go with "sure, at a cost" with a valid argument about lost opportunity to rent to someone else, some money to appease the broker, etc.
It's a business. The landlord is going to get every nickel it possibly can. It's not as if there was a relationship to be maintained.
You've got the rest of your life to stick to your no-fee principle. Too late this time.
if he doesnt let you out of the lease, ask him if you can find a new tenant then will he terminate the lease and give you back a deposit. Also, it sounds like the regret is in paying more money than you wanted, but at this point you will be losing money backing out, so why dont you just keep it? its only a rental, you didnt buy the place, and is there anything wrong with the apt?
"It's a business. The landlord is going to get every nickel it possibly can. It's not as if there was a relationship to be maintained."
Part of business is to make sure that the person leasing your place is happy. They can be late on rent, they can put your condo on airbnb.com when they're not home, they can create a vacancy, they can create trouble when you are looking for a new tenant, they can not pay last month's rent and leave you w/o security, they can trash your place well in excess of security, they can over-stay their lease without paying long enough for you to lose money but not long enough to pursue an eviction, etc.
If you live your life thinking every business relationship is about squeezing every nickel you immediately can, you'll probably not go very far in business, in your career, etc.
Just one guy's opinion.
NWT, I think I misunderstood. You're saying if the LL goes with a cancellation, there'd be no relationship to worry about. Agreed, but seven7 can just say "no" if LL pushes to far, in which case LL would be left with a lease to an irate tenant. So I'd argue the relationship is already established ;).
I simply made a mistake:
On Friday afternoon I agreed to pay a $ 4000 broker's fee plus 1/2 month of August even though I dont need the apartment until September because the broker convinced me to take it off the market as that it was so special for me to move on the same floor
Well on Saturday I woke up and I thought the whole thing was crazy for me to do I think my feelings are understandable on many levels
this is straight forward: ask for them to let you out and see what they say.
I'm probably unduly cynical, especially since my only two leases (1979 and 1991) had no issues. But then I wouldn't have asked for freebies, and am pretty sure the landlords wouldn't have asked me for any.
Simple offer and acceptance. Not sure why a clear matter of contract law is instead a matter of opinion for some here.
I'm going to have to agree with Jim Hones on this one. On a personal level, sure I'm sympathetic to the OP. But on a business and contractual level, he's not in the right. So talk it out, nice can go a long way. But you aren't in the right.
>The broker is probably not owed a fee if contract is cancelled.
But if the contract isn't cancelled, merely the owner agrees with the tenant to terminate the tenancy with or without some penalty, the broker fee isn't refundable.
>They can be late on rent, they can put your condo on airbnb.com when they're not home,
Airbnb - illegal.
>If you live your life thinking every business relationship is about squeezing every nickel you immediately can, you'll probably not go very far in business, in your career, etc.
Does this apply to the "shitlist" too?
>But if the contract isn't cancelled, merely the owner agrees with the tenant to terminate the tenancy with or without some penalty, the broker fee isn't refundable.... unless the broker wants to.
by and large, if someone isn't moving into an apartment because the owner let's them out of the lease, the fee get's refunded.
Well, that sounds nice by the broker.
Thank you for your comments i already contacted the broker and she said i'm responsable for the fee and the first month rent never contacted the owner thought ihe may let me out...
however it is a 6 month contract maybe i should just ride the ride- It's that at the end of the six months moving out will me more difficult during the cold months now it's ideal- i guess i sound like a brat...
">They can be late on rent, they can put your condo on airbnb.com when they're not home,
Airbnb - illegal."
So are many other items on the list, what's your point?
My point is that it is illegal. Isn't that sufficient? Illegal isn't just a inconvenient technicality. At least not to me.
What were the other illegal activities? Trashing the place?
There's no reason to let you out of this without penalty. If, in the probable best case, landlord lets you out and keeps only the certified check, and you manage to successfully fight for the broker's fee, and then you get a no fee rental, you haven't saved anything
By the way, what strikes me as not smart is paying a big fee for only a 6-month lease
i know- the whole thing was wrong- but i have to blame my own stupidity
This is streeteasy, surely you can point the finger at someone else. Jim Hones? Columbia County? Williamsburg or Long Island City? The banks? The board? Met Life or Tischman?
British Bankers? People from BRIC countries? Goldman? Eric Holder? Chris Christie? Teachers Union? Doormen?
the 6 months lease i rewable- i just wanted to keep flexibility in case i find something to buy
burg: I see, you're saying it is against NYC law rather than just a civil matter.
Yes, illegal = against the law.
Seven7, don't stress out too much. Think of this as a lesson with pretty managable costs. Learn what you can from it w.r.t. your decision-making process, there are a lot bigger set of bad decisions to make in life.
I also wouldn't put out talking to the LL.
This is not a landlord issue ... the regret here does not seem to be in taking the conveniently located apartment, the regret seems to be about having paid a $4,000 fee to secure said apartment. Your quarrel, to the extent that you feel you have one, is with the Elliman agent and not with the landlord.
And Elliman has already very sweetly let you know that they're not refunding your check.
The one thing that the agent might have done, which might have saved everyone some agita, is to have made it clear to you on Friday how much better this apartment was than competing no-fee apartments, so you wouldn't be waking up now and going, "what if?"
It's obviously not a "necessary" part of the transaction, but IMHO a good salesperson would have done this.
DG Neary Realty
"Yes, illegal = against the law."
My bad. On the other hand, enforcement seems like a cake walk -- just contact the listings -- but the city seems to go after it with all the passion of jay-walking.
>but the city seems to go after it with all the passion of jay-walking.
Some of us spent time in midtown Manhattan pre Giuliani and remember when jaywalking was unencumbered by the stupid partial-block barricades.
Front porch- You are correct - I don't know what do ! Money is still in my bank account.....I would be (alnost) ok with losing the first month's rent, it is my own doing after all....
Ok, enough self-flagellation. Now can you get those 777 commercials off the tv?
seven, you may effectively be stuck, but I would call the broker and go through the stages of your regret and try to guilt him/her into getting you a nice housewarming present.
Then try hard to love the decision that you did make -- you have an easy move when it's hot, and you're taking a lease term that will allow you to be "off-cycle" -- and hopefully in a less-tight market -- when you have to renew.
Take heart, of course even this move looks daunting because it isn't done yet, but it is human nature that you will find things to like about the new place.
wait, you paid the broker more than a months rent for a 6 month lease?
Angeloz, stop drooling and ask for the private e-mail already.
Thank You for the kind words- I was practically on the brink of suicide yesterday- I mean i couldn't believe to have been so stupid.
But i feel better now, calmer.
A friend convinced me that moving on the floor was the right thing to do and i followed his suggestion even thought my instinct were fighting it (i went to see a no fee place, that i liked on friday morning) Then the broker called and out of guilt i just went ahead and signed the contract.
But it's only for 6 months, maybe before if i find the right place to buy...
Again thank you
You should unsigned the lease retroactively. It's a legal maneuver just ask Mitt Romney
Angelos, no, the rent is $ 4,800 per month- The broker's fee was suppose to be that, but i was give a "discount"
petrfitz, User_usertofferson happens to agree with you.
Huntersburg I retroactively take back any posting that I put my name on therefore I am no longer responsible for anything in writing that I put my name on
good one brooks, seven7, that is totally a fair fee then, your renting a 4800 dollar a month apt, so your probably clearing well over 190k a year, considering how valuable your time is, and that your move is costing you nothing, i would say you got a good deal in a hot rental market. Take it and run. The only thing i dont understand is if you saw a no fee apt that you liked more, you took this apt out of guilt of letting the broker down? thats the first i heard of someone feeling bad for a broker. You sound like a good person, im sure this happened for a reason, and good things will come with your new apt. Also, if you renew for another 6 months, well then you just paid a 7% fee, and that is well below what most brokers charge now. You did good.
Thank You Angeloz i took this place because it has enough space for me to work in it- The no fee rental would have forced me to work outside (too small) but i am looking for a change in my life and would have welcome the challenge. In any case- Thank you for putting things in the right perspective for me
Anyway, how bout dem Yankees
> Huntersburg I retroactively take back any posting that I put my name on therefore I am no longer responsible for anything in writing that I put my name on
like how Penny Pritzker is no longer fundraising for Obama, or how Obama kept Guantanamo open?
Why pay a broker fee to move inside your building?
"Then the broker called and out of guilt i just went ahead and signed the contract."
Ah yes, the old guilt trip: a favorite of slimy sales people. I'll always remember my first trip to an auto dealership back when I was 19. Test drove a car, then got given the hard sell. Sales guy's got the picture of his family prominently on the table, manager comes in talking about the resale value of a spoiler. Even my green ass knew to get the hell out of Dodge. Bought the car a couple of weeks later elsewhere.
You can always ask the broker to advertise the apartment and see if he can get someone else for the unit. Also ask the landlord if he would be willing to let you out of the lease. However once you sign that pretty much it. If you put a stop on the checks you could go to jail and/or be sued by the broker and/or landlord for writing bad checks. If you already stopped the checks I would contact a good criminal defense attorney. As a reminder this comment is not legal advise. Best of luck to you !
seven, if there's a bright side, it may be this: You say you're in the market to buy. What you've just experienced will very likely toughen your skin a bit for that process.
Next time you won't allow yourself to be 'guilted' into something you're not 100% comfortable with. Next time you'll stick to your gut instinct and not be swayed by brokers or friends. Wouldn't you rather have cut your teeth and learned these lessons on a rental than on a potentially million-dolllar-plus deal? If you look at it this way, that was a cheap $4K.
And the funny thing is: The broker left the $ 4,000 check in the envelope she dropped off with the signed contract! She just emailed me asking for it and it's here! I'm so tempted to answer back "well, actually we shoud re negotiate"....But of course won't do that :)
Check? What check?
"regretted it this morning"
you seem like you have some experience with beer goggles lucille. it took your husband how many years to realize he'd made a poor choice in marrying you?
Clients like seven7 are why I got out of the real estate game.
seven7 paid a brokers fee to move withinthe building because this is a broker-bashing thread.
Then why the hell are you still posting here?