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Can a co op board take legal action if I do not follow this rule? I know other apts do not have carpeting, but I am being asked to comply because my downstairs neighbor has filed a compliant. Can I push back as I no others are not following this rule? Is there any legal action I can take.
Believe coop board has a right to inspect in case of a complaint but not sure how the enforcement will work. Perhaps you can talk to your neighbor and cover main walkways. Also take off the shoes when you enter the apt. This will stop the neighbor from complaining. Also. Be sure to point out to the neighbor that he / she plays the music you hear etc but that is a part of living in new York city.
the rules exist for matters such as this (to resolve complaints of noise transmission). I think basically you need to do something to reduce the noise that transmits downstairs or talk to your neighbour and get some agreement on norms and expectations (assuming your noise level is not excessive). Otherwise they can sure insist on carpeting - afterall you signed to comply with those rules.
1. the standard coop proprietary lease makes House Rules part of the Lease
2. recent appellate cases have held that coop boards can treat shareholders
differentially as long as they have a good faith basis for doing so
3. your board does: your neighbor's complaint
4. if you go to court and lose you will have to pay their legal fees
5. you need to reach an accommodation with your neighbor and board
How do you know other apartments don't have carpeting?
Don't wear shoes inside the apartment. This solves the problem entirely.
You'd be surprised at how heavy the footfall of a barefoot dainty little woman can be, let alone a big lug of a guy, especially (in both cases) if their feet and ankles are damaged from wearing high heels too much.
No, the co-op cannot force you to allow them to inspect your apt. IF they ask to inspect, you ahe the right to slam the door shut in their face.
>IF they ask to inspect, you ahe the right to slam the door shut in their face.
That would be against the Leader's wishes.
It's a coop, so it's not "your" apartment and the Board can inspect. Don't antagonize them or you put yourself into a bad situation. Talk to your downstairs neighbor about addressing the noise issue without carpeting. If you can work something out, the carpeting order probably goes away.
Socialist is stupid. Every coop resident owns some percent of the ENTIRE building. So yes they can inspect, and can legally force you.
>Socialist is stupid.
Yet another anti-Obama post by Jason. http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/31878-Obamas-unemployment-rate-reaches-10-percent
All it takes is removing your shoes and learning to do the "apartment slide". That means shuffling your feet instead of heavy foot thuds that can be heard below. I'm always amazed at the lengths people will go through (arguments, attorneys, carpeting, retaliation, etc.) in order to resolve a very simple problem.
you don't need to put down carpeting. your overall area, except for kitchen and baths, should be covered. with furniture and a few rugs, you can easily comply with 80% rule. you need to be more specific of why your neighbor is complaining. are you walking in high heel shoes day and night? do you have a child playing basketball in the house? do you like to crank your base so the walls shake?
In some buldings, it is more down to the building than the occupants. People need to walk aorund without tiptoeing, kids need to play, a house is not a sterile environment where we live as zombies. People can and should walk around their houses as they wish.
Unfortunately, there are some buildings where almost any sound is transmitted through the ceiling. Even a chess piece falling on the floor will make an amplified sound heard underneath. That should not be the case in an ideally constructed building. Where I am now I actually have no idea if my neighbours above have been home for last weeek as I have never heard a thing. Other aaparrmeents you can tell which room your neighbours above are in at anytime. Sometimes noise transmission is more down to construction than habitants.
Carpeting might help but wont change that much. I suspect too the lower resident may have his or her own issues and cannot stand or tolerate any sound, other than that they make, if so there may be no solution other than OOP moves or lower resident moves.
What is the source of the noise? Is it heavy footsteps, music, slamming doors, children using their living room like a playground? I am not at all sympathetic to NYCME trying to sue their neighbors for their complaint; seems a bit extreme especially in the absence of trying to come to an agreement of some sort first. The 80% rule makes sense and should be enforced because people are simply not considerate: people DON'T play their music softly or moderately, people DON'T take into consideration how loud their footwear is, people DON'T control unruly children or noisy pets, etc etc. I've lived in 8 buildings over the past 17 years and each had its unique issues. I generally have come to agreements with neighbors. People are generally reasonable when approached in a reasonable manner.
"So yes they can inspect, and can legally force you."
Oh really? is that so? ANd when was the last time a co-op forced themselves into someones' apt.? I bet you can't think of a single time since it has never happeend before and never will.
Socialist, your post is not according to the Will of the Leader.
All co-op shareholders should welcome an inspection by the Leader (or the Leaders's official people) to ensure that their thoughts and carpeting are according to the Rules. All good Socialist co-op shareholders live to satisfy the Socialist Leader.
@NYCME: Based on the information you provided, you are in the wrong not the right here. You live in a coop with 80% rule, you readily admit you aren't following it and YOU want to take legal action?!?!
Why not be a good neighbor and get some carpeting? All it takes is a few area rugs. No need for wall-to-wall.
And yes, the board can indeed take legal action against you for flouting the bylaws. Worst-case scenario? Eviction. And I don't understand why you'd think there's some legal recourse for you if you are blatantly refusing to abide by your co-op's bylaws.
Any recommendations on slippers/flip flops that generate less noise? My croc slippers sound like an elephant to my downstairs neighbor.
Footwear won't solve your problem -- at least not directly. Rugs might not either. You need to pay attention to the noise your footfalls make, regardless of what shoes you're wearing (or not). And learn to walk quietly. It can be done.
It can be done more easily if your feet work properly. That means doing ankle dorsiflexion mobility drills, and ideally wearing shoes with zero (or near zero) heel lift. The New Balance "Minimus" series achieves that, with less ugliness than its competitors ... but still, they're sneakers, which you might not want (or be able) to accessorize your wardrobe with very often.
Co-Op can force a change , or sue for it , I've seen it before
Thanks Alanhart. I am planning to change my bad habit too.
Thanks very much for the useful advice. I really appreciate it.
mynycse: Shoes off while in the apt.
Unless you want to tippy-toe around your apt. your weight will determine the noise of your footfalls.
Concerned, are you seasoning your personality so you can soon become like str33teasier, or are you senile, reflected by your several short useless posts on numerous threads?
Not weight, but foot movement. How the heel angles prior to and at ground-strike, and the roll to toe-off. Feet/ankles have hundreds of muscles, and nearly all of our Western footwear acts to atrophy the ones that produce the correct range of motion, stability, etcetera. Ultimately it results in terrible pain up and down the spine and neck. More immediately planter fasciitis / heel spurs.
Podiatrists make it all worse by mandating the further weakening of the feet -- "support", "stability", Crocs, higher and higher heel lifts, arch lifts, orthotics, etcetera. An alarm should go off about their approach when you discover that their solution for persistent pain in the foot is sometimes just to sever the nerve that's troubling you!
There are some co-ops where this has become a big problem. Co-op boards can and will take action against shareholders who don't follow house rules (e.g., carpeting) as they have a responsibility to all the shareholders in the building. Unless you can appeal to your neighbors directly to avoide their complaints, the managing agent will contact you for an inspection. What the board does after you fail the inspection is up to them, but they'll likely give you an opportunity to carpet your floors and address the issue.
you should analyze your movements around the apartment and make changes to minimize unnecessary trips. for example, if once you get home from work you go to a bedroom in order to plug in your phone and then come back, why not moving your charger from the bedroom to foyer area? similarly, keep track of what you need from the kitchen for say dinner so you don't go back and forth too many times.
JButtocks has some good suggestions, but doesn't take it far enough. You should really think about renting a second apartment and leaving this one vacant except when your downstairs neighbor gives you permission, for instance when he or she is on vacation
Another issue: My downstairs neighbor also complained my vacuuming in the afternoon on weekends. I spent a fortune and bought a Miele quiet vacuum as a result. Is this going to solve the issue?
"Another issue: My downstairs neighbor also complained my vacuuming in the afternoon on weekends. I spent a fortune and bought a Miele quiet vacuum as a result. Is this going to solve the issue?"
Any neighbor who complains about vacuuming on weekend afternoons is going to find something else to complain about.
mynycse: Agree with Matt on that.
Send a copy of the receipt for your new vacuum to the managing agent, attatched to an e-mail explaining that you have not violated any rules but are willing to make a good faith effort to resolve that particular complaint. (because if the managiing agent actually informed you of a dumb "complaint" like that one, you may have a serial complainer living downstairs. and a dumb managing agent.)
Was the complaint about noise from the vacuum, or from the vacuuming? i.e., tossing furniture around and stomping just as you might when walking...?
The neighbor only said "stop vacuuming". The entire duration is 30-45 mins.
Your apt is your home. You live there and must keep it clean. You are vacing during the day. That it is on the weekend is not unlawful.
Send the e-mail and enjoy your fancy new vac.
I remember not bidding on a building on west 15th with carpeting requirement. We were told by the honest broker that you must have rugs as the neighbor downstairs will insist on it. Hope you are not dealing with it.
I am trying to buy a coop and, in the few apartments I've been in within this building, I have noticed there is almost no carpeting or rungs even though the 80% rule is clearly in the house rules. They told me at the interview that sound in that building travels down from the apartment above rather than side to side (through the ceiling rather than the walls). I have plenty of rugs to fulfill their requirement - but what if the person above me does not and they walk around in high heels. What would a person's chances of complaining in a situation like that? Should I be concerned if a building is not following their own rules?
I find that cork bottomed shoes are the most quiet. But one would be shocked at the different ways that people walk. I have lived in a building with five different owners on the floor below me. In my current building, sound not only travels down but it travels up too! Three out of the five owners hardly made a sound - you couldn't even tell when they were home or not. But two different owners were SO LOUD when they walked! And one was a very small and skinny woman - and both owners took their shoes off before entering their apartment. So, for the sake of apartments below you, pay attention to your walking style and don't assume that just because your shoes are off you are not making noise.
Why you wouldn't put down some carpet and be a good neighbor is beyond me. Everyone thinks they have to take a stand. You make enemies of your neighbors and the Board and you will have a miserable experience living in the building. And don't forget, the downstairs neighbor can make your life difficult. I've know people to tape speakers against the ceiling for 15 minute in the middle of the night or ring your doorbell at 3 in the morning to get back at you. Life it too short.....put down some area rugs, take off your shoes and be a good neighbor...not difficult.
A rule is a rule. Buyers usually have to sign off that they've read the co-op rules so follow them or don't buy. The people above us babysat their grandchild, a toddler, from 11 am to 5 pm Monday thru Friday. A lot of noise. They did not have any carpeting. We told the managing agent who delayed dealing with the issue. It was not until I brought the infraction to the attention of a co-op board member that we got results. There would have been a stiff financial penalty if they had not complied. I learned my lesson and if the managing agent is not responsive I will go to a sympathetic board member.
Prior discussion on this topic: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/17818-80-carpet-rules
"I learned my lesson and if the managing agent is not responsive I will go to a sympathetic board member."
As a co-op board president, I welcome ALL building-related complaints. I love our managing agent, but all too often managing agents who've been with the building for a while get a little too cozy with building staff and long-term tenants (as opposed to board members who can come and go year to year), and tend to do a lot of looking the other way when complaints are raised.
You whats the HYPOCRISY of this thread ?? About 95% of the apts shown have great wood floors. Sooo why fuck that up ?? Why don't you show apts with FUCKIN CARPET IN THE FIRST PLACE ??!!
The same reason why they don't show kitchens with dirty sinks in the sink, or bathrooms with gunk in the sink and tub.
MIBNYC, your comments are offensive. If there had been no noise coming from the upstairs apartment, I would not have cared if carpeting was down or not. I'm sure there are a number of apartments without carpeting but the residents are quiet so who's to know if they're breaking the rule or not. It's when there is significant noise from that apartment AND they are violating the rules, that intervention is needed.
@ Kaydee ... my comments are on POINT !! 9 out of 10 apts sold are shown with good looking wood floors. Imagine if you are looking a beautiful herringbone wood floors and you are paying a couple of mil for the place to then to be told after you buy you have to thrown down rugs. THATS BULLSHIT !
MIBNYC ... that's just how it goes.
It makes no sense to show a unit with significant rugs because like wall color, styles and tastes are so divergent and the seller is trying to show the home in as neutral a light as possible.
@ MATT ... thats the BAIT N SWITCH that is pulled. You are not told from THE GET that you have to throw down carpet when the broker knows its going to be mandatory.
9 out of 10 SUVs are sold with pictures of the vehicle perched on a dramatic point of a butte high up in the desert, near no roads or people.
But that doesn't mean they can be used there, without also buying the helicopter anyway.
The bottom line is that you have the right to levitate in your wood-floored apartment, but that's about it. If you don't like it, punch your coop's vice president.
you said "butte".
how come SE doesn't shut you down?
@ Alanhart ... during Sandy i tested that theory with my Range Rover sport in manhattan going down a street with the water halfway up the DOORS and that baby just kept rolling !! LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT.
also, remember you will be asked to sign a statement with your board application stating that you have read the "House Rules"....if you are too stupid and/ or lazy to do so before "paying a couple of MIL for the place" then too bad. Put down the rugs....
@ Gutter... so why the FUCK do you have to wait till a fucking board application is in your face forcing you to throw down rugs ???
Can a building require that I install carpeting before I move in? I only plan on putting down some area rugs, not wall to wall carpeting. Why is the super insisting that it must be put down before I move my furniture in?
Co-Op does not require wall-to-wall carpeting in the Building's apartments 80-% floor-covering requirement.
Unless that requirement is specified in the contract/proprietary lease.
Why are you listening to the Building's super?
E-mail the managing agent.