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I am personally neither bullish nor bearish re: real estate, just found the article of interest and appropriate to post here....
Reading this quickly but the post story says not seasonally adjusted and the data points seem to be before the foreslosure accord allowed the machine to crank up again.
The Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller home price index released Tuesday showed increases in all of the 20 cities tracked. And a measure of national prices rose 2.2 percent from April to May, the second increase after seven months of flat or declining readings.
The increases partly reflect the impact of seasonal buying. The month-to-month prices aren’t adjusted for seasonal factors.
with crooks keep printing money like crazy, prices can only go up
Mortgage delinquincies are as bad as ever -- "across the board" -- so just wait until the foreclosures begin again. Blood flowing in the streets.
Isn't it down almost 3% y-o-y in the NY area and NYC unemployment climbed back up to recession high of 10%?
Yes and no. All 20 markets were up between April and May, but 8 of the 20 were down over the last year (NYC being down 2.8%, how can that be?).
With no signs of decline.
Bubble again? Or did it just never pop? Hey sprint is down $.12 today. According to Case shiller price of sprint in the last 4 months increased from $2.4 to $4.5 and today dropped to $4.39. Case shiller says 'I don't know where sprint will be, but I can run an HP and do percentages!'
Take it from w67, who correctly called the sprint doubling in 4 months. Just a temporary breather till it hits $5 then off to the races, with institutional buyers able load up on sprint. The easiest buy in my entire financial life. Sprint's gotz legs. and btw, nyc re represents the worst leveraged asset buy in my lifetime at these levels. LIC condos, even worse
LIC condos don't matter -- the catastrophe insurance will take care of their lost value. Rainbow unicorn adjusters will cut the checks.
Dead cat bounce. Wait until all the foreclosures hit mkt in NYC
A little history is in order:
During the last what two years, we've had a home buyer tax credit and a suspension of foreclosures.
Manhattan might do OK. And the worst hit areas may be oversold, but every market up? Get real!
brooks2, u r out of your mind. it's virtually impossible to foreclose in nyc
Re foreclosures - it's virtually impossible in MANHATTAN, but brooks did write NYC, which includes the outer boroughs. Not virtually impossible in the outer boroughs...
foreclosures are NOT impossible in Manhattan. that's horribly misleading, we've already seen a few. short sales, on the other hand, are a current reality (although still very limited in Manhattan), and with some of the sales histories in the larger condo developments I can definitely see the possibility of an increase.
caomina, you are hardly one to talk about a tenuous grasp on reality.
>caomina, you are hardly one to talk about a tenuous grasp on reality.
Have you googled "caonima"?
Mets79, even in brooklyn, the courts need at least 7 years to go through the current pending case in the pre-foreclosure pipe, do the math.
Also, there exist foreclosure or short sale cases in manhattan, but very very few. most of them are the deadbeats' tricks trying to stay in the hourse for couple more years for free
some cases are the smart guys took HELOC from a shell for millions then take the money and walk away, they are willing to foreclose but the banks are too slow
slow doesn't mean never. not a very fine distinction, but one that seems elusive to you.
and short sales can accelerate whenever the banks decide to start playing hard ball. or if mark to market becomes a reality again.
i did google caonima. although the literal meaning is quite provocative, there are some usages that seem more legitimate.
here's one. a very small two bedroom with private roof rights. i don't know about this specific block, but this is a neighborhood very much in demand due to scarcity. and a coop, no less. for some reason the 09/06 seller had to resell, and at a significant loss, after only a few months of ownership. Now six years later the asking price is even less.
05/16/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $695,000.
09/28/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $580,000.
07/20/2012 Listed by Douglas Elliman at $550,000.
There you go, AR at her best!
"Conveniently located to Tompkins Square and the wide array of restauarants, nighlife and shopping in the East Village. "
"Penthouse two bedroom with private roof rights has been reconfigured as large one bedroom with three exposures"
Does it count as a Penthouse if there's no PH button to press because there's no elevator?
How is that significant on a comps level? What's your point?
Well AR, this thread was about home prices increasing across the board. You chose to highlight one single home to the contrary. Despite Brooks2 singing your praises, what's the relevance of picking one single listing when the discussion is macro?
And so, once you diverted the thread, I found the listing an interesting one to pick on and take down. How "in demand" is a 5th floor walkup in Alphabet City, especially one where neither the broker nor the owner can be bothered to get the listing correct? 100 years ago, people lived on 5th floor walkups because they had to. Today, it's a limited market of people who fall for BS like calling a walkup a penthouse, despite the restauarants (sic) and nighlife (sic) that frankly is geared only to people for only a limited number of years of their life (in this case, 6 years) before they move on and grow up.
How relevant is googling caomina?
Caonima is the name of a poster on this thread. Sometimes it's helpful to see who you are talking to, especially since you first commented on caonima him or herself rather than his or her post.
It's also more relevant than shares of Sprint, or "rainbow unicorn adjusters."
A somewhat relevant observation from the trenches: we've been looking for condos in Harlem for the past six months. Almost every building that we've seen in January - March is now sold out. I can only guess the prices in this area are up due to a significant decrease in the inventory.
-- It's also more relevant than [...] "rainbow unicorn adjusters."
"100 years ago, people lived on 5th floor walkups because they had to. Today, it's a limited market of people who fall for BS like calling a walkup a penthouse, despite the restauarants (sic) and nighlife (sic) that frankly is geared only to people for only a limited number of years of their life (in this case, 6 years) before they move on and grow up."
Huntersburg, plenty of people are happy to live in walkups -- I lived in one for years and would again if the price were right. (The 2006 prices are high for this particular unit, I admit.)
The lack of an elevator is just something that can count against an apartment, like any other missing amenity, and (usually) is priced in accordingly.
I don't think it(calling it a PH) counts if there is not an elevator
Well maybe if you change the apt # to 5 PH,
But, I think the point of the post is that there ate short sales in manhattan and there will soon be foreclosure sales.
the point of the post is what impact short sales, and even more so foreclosures, have on pricing. HB may not think that there is a market for walk-up units, with or without private outdoor space, but in the east village, the market disagrees. many a buyer has been appalled at the prices such units command. in my given example, the price would have been far higher if it had been a building with an elevator, but that would have been true both for the '06 sales and the current listing. the pricing here is a bit high in '06, but there isn't an abundance of private roof space in the east village, and i'd suspect that explains most of it.
there are both short sales and foreclosure sales. the foreclosures are much harder to spot, because often they don't seem to officially hit the sales listings. you often have to just spot recorded sales that list banks, servicing cos., trustees, etc. short sales are sometimes listed, I don't know if they always are in this market, and I don't know if there's any legal obligation to identify them as such.
The point of this post is not to highlight what impact short sales and foreclosures have on pricing. The point of this post is what the OP stated. Also, this article is about improvement sales from a sluggish market. aboutready, what article are you reading?
I don't think HB said there's no market for walkups, but that that aspect will show in the unit's price and/or speed of sale.
In any event, I strongly agree with HB that this listing takes on a comical, almost self-effacing air by using the term "penthouse". I'm not so sure a top-floor walkup with a good-sized walkout terrace would count as a penthouse; less so if you have to walk up to a roofdeck from the unit; and much much less so if you have to leave the unit to do so. The latter is called "Up On The Roof" and describes life in The Ghetto.
Where I disagree with HB is on the importance of the listing's spelling mistakes. After all, SE-CORE's own map has a label that goes a little like this: "Stuyvestant Town/PCV".
At the end of the day, though, AR is absolutely correct: all the artificial (legal, strategic) maneuvers against short sales and foreclosures won't change the reality of massive bubble-pricing that still exists.
It's a mystery to me why foreclosures in NY are still sold privately ... in other states they're required to be offered publicly.