Looking for a 3drm condo and visited 1212 Fifth Ave. Great pre-war building and high end finishes. Concerned about spending $3+M so far up, surrounded by projects. Good investment?

Great views of Central Park as well!

I have no opinion on this and promise I am NOT rower_nyc, but I am commenting on this to bump it to the top of the discussion board because I can't believe none of the experts have an opinion on this, and I fear it may have been a post that nobody saw because it quarantined from a new poster such that by the time it showed up on the board, it was already a few pages down. Again, I am NOT rower_nyc and have no knowledge of this listing or opinions on it, but I would have expected some of the experts to chime in. Maybe nobody has an opinion, and so be it if such is the case, but because of my own experience with posts being quarantined, I want to help out someone else who might in same situation as I once was. In addition, I am always on the lookout for any insight anyone has on any building on Fifth Avenue.

rower, the building has been discussed rather extensively on StreetEasy in the past. You can see the following two threads, which you can locate by using the "Search Discussions" box on the right side of the page.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/26786-building-at-1212-fifth-avenue

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/25809-1212-fifth-avenue

rower_nyc: check out http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/26786-building-at-1212-fifth-avenue.
I have not read it, but it may help you answer your question. FWIW, I don't think anyone can answer the question of whether something is a good investment for you without knowing a lot about you, and it is really a question you need to answer for yourself. I have found that SE experts are a great resource when I ask very specific questions tailored to help me answer a larger question for myself.

flarf and I must have typing at same time; sorry for redundant post.

Appreciate your comment NYCNovice, you are exactly right - just joined SE so took time to get my Q upp. Thanks both for links- will have a look. Welcome any latest infor, POV.

Good investment? Let's take a look at the D line. 4-6D all on the market, 2 of them for 3 months with no takers.

14D rented with a last ask of $7100 after 2-3 empty months. Let's say it went for $6600. Monthlies on the place at $3100, so $42K a year. Figure an empty month every couple of years, down to $39K. Upkeep, down to $36K. A $170K round-trip transaction cost once every 10 years, down to $19K.

$19K / $1.71M = 1.1% yield on cash

Kick in inflationary increases at 2% a year, it's 3.1%. For an illiquid long-term asset.

Does that sound like a good investment to you?

Do you mean a good investment to live in or a good investment to rent out?

Not sure how well 3 bedrooms would do in general as true investment property in this area, as the target population interested or able to rent such apartments is relatively small, and of those sekeing 3 beds, there are not many, I suspect, willing to pay a premium (that a landlord might expect) for facing central park, especially in east harlem. Also as the building is in east harlem, it would not come up in searches for units in UES. Finally the new rental tower ( so called 1214) will compete with a rental unit in 1212 and given the size of the building, they will have potential to offer incentives to prospective tenants that you as a single unit landlord can't. Also the rental tower has better facilities (swimming pool etc) so you may find you have to underprice your unit to succeed in the shadow of 1214.

I think if you are thinking of a 3 bed unit to rent out then you might have to factor in as much as 3 months even every couple of years in inonada's projection. I have certainly seen three bedrooms in carnegie hill on rental market vacant for easily six to twelve months.

rower_nyc: I have been following these folks on streeteasy for awhile now and doing my own research as well. I have not been able to get away from conclusion that at this point in time, you have to really be committed to living in a property in New York city for a number of years if you want to just break even. So, from pure investment perspective, I have not seen a single property that makes sense. However, as aboutready pointed out, a purchase might make sense from consumption perspective if you take into account all the factors she listed. I originally came to SE looking for a certain type of real estate advice (e.g., what's the skinny on X building? what is this "flip tax" that I keep seeing in listings?), but the bonus I have found is that the site also has a number of posters who are savvy in financial management. I am glad they chimed in and hope you found info you were looking for.

Matsui is correct. I know from having looked for and lived in 2- & 3-bedroom rentals in Harlem for the past 5 years. Its MUCH cheaper per SF to rent a 3- or 4- bedroom here than a 2, and MUCH MUCH cheaper to rent a 2 than a one. Studios are almost unheard of here, because rents are so cheap.

I am talking new/nice/doorman whatever in this.

So for ex in my building or the ones right near me, all new, doorman ones - 1 bedrooms go for $2200-2500, (not counting ones with terraces - those might go for up to $3000) two bedrooms start at $2500(!) and go up to $4000 with terraces. In nearby new buildings, 3-bedrooms start in the low $3000 range.

So for people wanting roommates Harlem as a whole is a steal. And for better off families with non-school aged kids or kids in private school its a steal.

HOWEVER because of the relative low ratings of the PUBLIC schools (less some charter ones), its NOT a good fit for a lot of better off families.

However, just a few blocks south of me in a better school district, 1 bedrooms in doorman new buildings go for $3000+, 2-bedrooms for $4500+, and 3-bedrooms for...$7,000+ (!!!!)

So in East Harlem (and this is true too for Central Harlem) a 2-bd might be 15% more than a one bedroom in the same building, and a three bedroom 10-15% more than a two.

Whereas in "good" school areas its at least a 50% jump from 1 to 2 to 3 beds.

This is why ANY paper or story on successful neighborhood gentrification says that you need to start with studios and 1-bedrooms first, to attract young college-educated people and gays and artists. Only after many years of this do you start to get starbucks etc and lots of white faces (sorry, but its true) and THEN better-off families feel comfortable.

Thanks for the well thought through feedback, was looking at in terms of consumption. Now having second thoughts. Would you guys favor a single family townhouse in Yorkville? I've read through lots of threads on Yorkville, realize its out there - but actually prefer that.