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My sister moved out of her coop 4 years ago and has been trying to sell her coop ever since without success. Went through 2 or 3 different brokers and a handful of seemingly qualified buyers. Each time a buyer signed up the board would get back with a refusal about 6 months later. She has basically given up and has been resigned to just paying the maintenance fees to have an empty apt. (she can afford it, no issues).
My take on it is that it is very wasteful. She's literally throwing away $800 a month for nothing. We've thought about having our mother move in there in the near future. Problem is we also have a 25 year old little sister who currently lives with mom. Little sis is working and is saving for her own place, but probably won't have enough to buy for another few years and mom won't want her to move out on her own until sis is financially secure/married. I don't think the board can say anything about mom living in older sister's place, but another sister in addition to mom? It's a large 1 bed at over 900 sf.
what do you think about both of them moving in there? any other strategies to deal with the board in case the older sister still wants to sell?
This is where your sister needs to make this more than just a formal relationship with the Board. Get some feedback from someone on the Board as to what she needs to do to get a sale.
As for the little sis residency, again, first thing is to read the proprietary lease or house rules and see what is formally says. Then, the best route is to ask someone informally on the Board if they would dare enforce it given that your sister cannot sell.
you need to see if there is a reason why the prospective buyers are being turned down. after the first turndown, i am surprised that she did not contact someone from the board for a chat after the next one. have there been sales in the building?
the proprietary lease should be able to indicate what can or cannot be done in terms of immediate family residing there. in these kinds of situation, i tend to not care and do what i want. if they will come after you, you can file a lawsuit against the board for turning people down. if your family is not a nuisance, both suits can be dropped to save shareholders money and remove the suits from the board minutes
crescent: she kissed board pres' ass and was told there's no reason why apps should come to the board after such a delay as a couple months. She then called and even visited management location only to be answered with one word answers, told that person was not there, etc. Basically got bounced between board and management.
House rules state one other person, something to the tune of family member. So, either mom or sis would fit the bill, but not both, even though apt has been empty for 4 years.
ab: nobody would give a reason why the prospective buyers never even made it to the board interview after waiting months.
I was just informed that she has another contract and really isn't holding her breath. I guess if nothing else, mom can always move in. Little sis will have to fend for herself as I told mom.
Any other comments please feel free to share. I will direct my sis to this thread for her to read. Thanks.
If they want to share the apartment, there's no reason they shouldn't. The resident has a legal right to have one other person co-habitating there, no questions asked. And as has been pointed out, the board wouldn't enforce anything anyway. It sounds like they're simply not together enough to try.
What neighborhood is this in?
>What neighborhood is this in?
How does the neighborhood change the answer?
She should find out for sure if its really management that is c-ckblocking or really the board. Possibly mgmt company guy is looking for a bribe to 'expedite' it through. And are you really sure in your unbiased opinion that these are really qualified buyers?
if they want to play hardball, she can do the same then. First read the buildng rules very carefully and perhaps the coop lease. Then start being very 'difficult' but within the rules, where they will want her to leave if there is a decent buyer. Things like maybe being very dirty, using a subwoofer but not at a high volume that will warrant the police but be very annoying, Inviting seedy friends over that don't harass, but make people feel uncomfortable or perhaps walking around half naked in front of children etc.
In my last apartment the condo board was dragging its feet to slow the # of sales down i think plus that they didn't really like that I had a foreign buyer, so i started knocking on the door of each board member after like 2 months or so daily asking what was the status. After 2 days, of that the right of first refusal came through. Plan 'b' was to start walking around in the lobby/hallways in underwear, or to start acting really sleezy to make women/parents feel uncomfortable..Never reached that point though, but you get the drift.
>She should find out for sure if its really management that is c-ckblocking
Woah, this is not language I expect from someone named Snuffles.
This is bad, very bad.
Really? Not what you'd expect from someone named for a subgenre of pornographic entertainment in which the actress is killed during the filming?
What did you expect, Esperanto?
I don't know what you are talking about. Snuffles is a big purple blanket with sleeves and a built in teddy bear.
damn just wrote 2 paragraghs and when i went to unignore alanhart it wiped out the entire page. is that saying something? haha
snuffles has a point. "being very difficult within the rules" was what i had in mind the few times we talked about her place. unfortunately she's not around the place to cause any annoying. I've thought about leaving a radio on a timer, but even that needs to be monitored.
buyers financials seemed high enough to qualify. but, who knows how much they owe or spend? perhaps she'll take up my radio suggestion if this deal falls through too.
so alanhart: you don't think the board will enforce if BOTH mom and sis moved in? one of these days she's not going to be able to take care of her house. it might as well be sooner if that saves everybody money. that's why we all live in houses. some of these coop boards are nuts.
I'm nearly certain that the NYC statutory right to one roommate applies to coops.
Huntersberg, are you thinking of the product that's just like Depends, only for infants?
burg, not berg
Don't be so assimilationistical. It's berg.
jaesee, first Q&A: http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/answers-from-the-co-op-board-expert-part-2/
And huntersberg, don't be so assimilationistical.
Flmaozzz. If the exhange never let's sprint print a trade at $10/share.... Then Ericho will never have to book his loss. Flamozzzz.
So rich don't matter, but I'll stick my mom and sis and 4 chihuahuas and 2 cats.... If you so rich sell your 52 buddy Davis for $400k... Not the $700k you've had it listed for 2 yrs!!!!! Hahhahhaaaaaa.
Don't offend me with a low bid, I rich bitch.
Sprint taking a breather at $5. Haaaaaahhhahaahaaaaaa. My yacht did really well this weekend. Looked at sprint and right back at $5 again.... On its way to $10.... Flmaozzz.
You re whores masturbate to floor plans..... I'm going for the 'real' thing.... Itz Kool. You like to watch.
Apology for the double post.
From Alan's article:
"Section 235-f of the Real Property Law (the so-called “roommate law”) provides that every residential lease entered into by one tenant “shall be construed to permit occupancy by the tenant, immediate family of the tenant, one additional occupant, and dependent children of the occupant…”
Jaesee's youngest sister and her mother both seem to be obvious "immediate family". If the board tries to claim that it's some combination of the above parties *plus* the original tenant, as long as the sister who's the named tenant is still around on occasion to receive mail, etc., I can't see how the board can stop them.
I say move them in and tell the board to try and sue you. What's the worst that can happen? They force you to sell? If so, you say "OK, I'm selling; here's my buyer"!
How common is stuff like this? I am currently reading The New York Co-Op Bible by Sylvia Shapiro. The information contained therein, combined with stories like OP's are pushing me further and further away from buying anything in New York. It seems like the bulk of listings we are interested in are coop stock, but buying into a coop seems like marrying into a family, the crazy side of which you can never really know until after you have said your vows. Can anyone venture a guess as to what percentage of coops are happy functioning families? Does anyone out there like their coop board? No need for building addresses; I would just like to hear one happy coop board story.
In Manhattan there're more than 1400 condos and more than 2400 co-ops. Each of them has a board, and most seem to chug along with no big problems. I myself like to cite the rare situation that goes to law, but there really aren't many of those.
I've been in the same co-op for 20 years. I've disagreed with a policy or a decision once in a while, but we can't all be calling the shots.
Generally you can tell how a building's run just by looking at the outside, the roof, and the cellar. If it looks as if slobs live there, then they do.
For a co-op, I'd also look at contract-to-closing timing. If you see a pattern of longer than the usual few months, that might indicate a slow board.
hm um alarm clock radio is kind of tame..
i was thinking more like inviting sleezy friends over..
whistling/oogling at the women heck or even men, maybe even push the envelope by acting pedifilish
if there's a laundry room board, put up fliers for massage services etc...
thanks alanhart and everyone. sounds good to me. we'll just see if this current deals comes thru. if not, then we know we have several options.
just an update: from sis: all applicants were financially qualified as per board pres'/management requirements. it was also only 3 qualified buyers before this one, 2 of whom were cash buyers. however, they never gave nor were they legally obligated to disclose reason for denying those applicants.
as for being an annoyance: any report of nuisance would be handled by board with a fine. after multiple fines they can repo the apt. this board is as loony as i've read on here so far.
What was the feedback from the brokers that she used?
Has any of them had successful sales in the building?
How long does the average sale take in her building and is there any evidence of other situations like hers?
What is the asking price compared to similar apartments? If it's "too low" she might be a victim of price fixing, where the "corporation" refuses to let prices fall below a certain level but will allow corrupt financial tactics in order to keep a high sales price in the public records.
Why don't you name the Coop and managing agent so that others don't become victims of these parasites?
If nothing else you might be able to shine a light on a corrupt Landlord uhm, "sponsor" and save someone else's life from being ruined.
Hmmm . . . we're only getting one side of the story here, what?
what's the address? can we look at the sales history on streeteasy?