New York City
Northern New Jersey
Search Better With
Shop for a Broker
Open House Planner
Saved Listings & Folders
Stats and Figures
Manhattan Condo Market Index
Years ago, for a well run building in solid financial health with a full time doorman and live in super in a reasonably good location (not 5th Avenue in the fancy area on the Park), the rule of thumb used to be to figure $0.80 - $1.20 psf for a Condo and $1.00 - $1.50 for a Co-op. I am not counting buildings with abatements.
I'm wondering, assuming the same basic facts to be in evidence (Nice but not over the top crazy fancy building, good location, no abatement) what street easy folks feel is a reasonable range of expectations for a Co-op/Condo common charges these days...
Not to sound like a dope....
On a 1000sqft your saying coop=800-1200/mo
Is this correct?
Going by SE's UES/UWS 2-bedroom/2-bath co-op listings that specify a room count, the median is now $500 per room. The middle 20% range from $481 to $535.
The numbers you are quoting are from 10 years back. For coop it is 1.50-2.00 per sq ft with doorman. Some coops may be lower if they own commercial space. For smaller coops it may be higher. At least 50 percent increase is from real estate taxes.
Nwt, that is cryptic.
Thanks everyone (thus far).
falcogold1 - yes, that's what I'm saying. But those are admittedly old numbers, which is why I'm trying to get a sense of the reality now...
NWT - the 'per room' equation (while appreciated) is not what I'm looking for here. The per square foot calculation is what I'm interested in.
300_mercer - yes, I know those are old. The 1.50 - 2.00 psf calculation for a 24 doorman + super co-op (assuming good financials and decent location) is helpful.
I think the average for a coop is now 1.9-2.0x per square foot per month. Using real square feet now, not listed. Don't think an unabated condo is much different, maybe a tad lower.
Falco - I think you have coop and condo reversed in your understanding. Coop maintenance includes taxes; condo has separate tax bill from common charges bill.
An example of less than $1.5 per sq foot.
300_mercer: That is also a good example of a co-op running at $1.40 - $1.50 psf in a good location with all services. Thank you.
This reminds me of a comparable such as Stewart House nearby (70 East 10th) - but in their case, there are regular assessments, as they choose to keep the regular CC's down as much as possible by having regular assessments (for good reason) instead of permanently raising the CC's. I wonder if The Sheridan is the same kind of situation. Nothing the matter with it - just a different methodology....
Not many but they have not had any facade work or other major work.
Any updates to rule of thumb for condos?
Crescent 22: the "tad lower" than 1.9-2.0x for unabated condos offered above - is that meant to be for taxes and common charges combined? If so, why are condo maintenance costs lower than coop in general? Is it because coops are also servicing mortgages through common charges?
because co-op real estate taxes are paid inside maintenance; condo real estate taxes are separately paid.
I don't know why condo maint+taxes are a little lower than coop maintenance- mortgage might be part; higher upkeep of older buildings might be another.
Not sure condos maintenance + taxes are lower any more. Well above 1.50 per sq ft. See example.
Taxes are determined by comparable (per the city) rental properties. A condo's comparables might be newer rental buildings, so its taxes would be higher.
The co-op's underlying-mortgage interest has to be subtracted when comparing with a condo, just as you add the apartment's share of the mortgage's principal when comparing purchase prices.
That effect is usually reduced over the years, though, as co-ops age. E.g., for me it was 8.2 cents per month per ft² in 1992, and it still is. It mattered a lot more back then.
(9% for the first 6 years, re-fi'd 15 years ago with some cash out at 7%, with the same payment. The 8.2 cents will drop a little bit next year, when we re-fi again.)
Results that I posted on the "discount for high monthiles thread;
condos (page 3 left column)
"monthly carrying costs, including common charges and real estate taxes were $1.57 up 8.3% from $1.45......."
coops (page 2 third column)
" the monthly maintenance charge for all sales increased 9% to $1.70 a square foot per month from $1.56......"
Like I said, average $1.60