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can you please advise what your co-op pays annually for their management company. we pay $84,000 which in my opinion is absurd.
also - pl advise what company you use as I am going to urge a switch. our agent is horrible anyway.
you need to provide more information with the $$ figure. how many units, how many staff members, what level of service you expect.
since you'll be changing companies anyway, get bids from numerous managing agents. i would strongly advise to avoid Cooper Square. they will give a good price and then with rip the building off in other ways. they behave like the thieves of the 90's who were jailed.
can you pls advise exactly what the management fees cover?
we have approx 100 units - 11 staff including super
everything and anything that the board delegates and directs them to do.
agree on avoiding cooper square. thieves.
Are you still using Elliman? If the $620 per apartment per year is too much, you might want to see what Brown Harris Stevens (the other pricey high-end outfit) will do for the same money. Just give them a call, describe your problems, and ask for a presentation.
If you don't need that level of kid-glove hand-holding anymore, there're lots of less-expensive options. We've been OK with Gerard Picaso. When I get home I'll look up what we're paying them.
for my old coop with 130 units and 7/8 staff members the cost was closer to $50K. that was back in 2008 when i sold. the coop is in brooklyn, so there may be some markup for Manhattan.
I have several friends who manage Coops that I own in - really well - who charge
a lot less than $840 per apartment per year.
Our coop is managed by Douglas Elliman. We recently re-bid with several companies and decided to stay with them. 420 apartments, staff of 18 including Super, onsite Property Manager plus assistant.
You get what you pay for. Strong corporate support.
We paid Picaso $42,000, or $500 per apartment, in 2011.
i think that making this about how much per apartment is potentially very misleading. managing agents are in the service business and requirements from buildings can be significantly different. if a building has a long term board with experienced reasonable people, the managing agent's job is significantly easier than dealing with hotheaded novices.
if a building is embarked on a significant capital improvement program that adds a degree of complexity. does the managing agent have to attend every board meeting? is there a relatively high amount of turnover? are a lot residents involved in complex or long term renovations?
84k sounds cheap to me.
Things to consider,
* management expense as it relates to the total budget
* cost of service provided+(including the expertise and relationships that come with the management company
* profit the managing agent is realizing(this is not a particularly profitable business model)but companies go into it
for other reasons.
>i think that making this about how much per apartment is potentially very misleading.
misleading? somebody left his calling card.
Elliman gets ~$180,000 from London Terrace Towers, but that's 700 apartments.
so...suggesting economy of scale or not?
Maybe there's some minimum-per-apartment they have to get, just to cover the annoying-calls-per-apartment factor, and then they adjust for things particular to the building.
350 Bleecker pays Tudor $52,000. That's 134 apartments.
>so...suggesting economy of scale or not?
How much do they pay at 98 Riverside?
Any idea how much it would be for a small (10 unit) coop? Also, do any of these management companies offer superintendent services for small coops? Any idea how much that would run to?
My building, a condo, is similiar in size to yours. We are paying somewherhe around $750/month for a management company. We were quoted between $700-1,000/month from various management companies. I don't know if the charges would vary much for a co-op than a condo. Our first Managing agent found us a porter which is about $800/month (he is a contractor, not an employee). A porter is far less skilled than a super- but we can hire a super on an as needed basis from the managing agent. Your board will need to decide whether you really need a super rather than a porter.
Thank you for the detail. Do you find that the management company offers good value for money? if they do, would you be prepared to share the name of the company? Do you ever hire the super from the management company? Are they skilled tradesmen and what kind of cost does that run to? Apologies, we are a self maintained building and I am wondering how much it would cost to get some of the things we do covered by an outside company for a variety of reasons
It depends what you need from a management company to determine whether they are a good value for the money. In our case, we were a new construction condo- but there were problems from Day 1 that the developer refused to fix properly (and the NY AG's office has no interest in defending small buildings). For awhile it made sense to stay self-managed- but when it came to managing the fixes to the construction issues we decided we wanted the expertise of a managing agent. As to generic day to day bookkeeping issues- it would have been more trouble than it was worth to hire a managing agent. The board has to ask itself whether the issues are generic bookeeping or whether you have signficant issues to deal with to determine if a managing agent is worth the money. If generic boookeeping- then no, it's not worth the money. If you have a major fight and construction issues to deal with- it might be worthwhile to hire a manager. As to the super- we have very little common areas in a new building- so aside from major issues we needed engineers and had to have a huge project for- a super wasn't really included in our thought process. If we need one, unit owners can hire one for an hourly fee and we don't have a signficant need for a super. Your needs may be very different. I would not recommend either managing agent we have used. Our current manager is signficantly better than the first one, but they aren't worth the fee for basic services.
I strongly recommend my friend Pam Elgar of Plymouth Management. She and her firm do an
excellent job of managing a Coop I own in. None of the bs or buck-passing so commone in
many Coops. And my e-mails are generally answered n minutes, even when she in on vacation
You can reaxh ger at 212-447-7000 ext, 224
we pay about 120k for ~220 apts . . . about 15-20 staff . . . thoughts on that? If we wanted to change who should we call?
And why does everyone hate cooper square . . .
Yes... Please post the issues about Cooper Square. I am thinking of purchasing an apartment in a building which they manage and also still have some sponser units
cooper square is made of thieves that enrich the board members. that's how they get into buildings. once the shareholders see what is going on, they revolt. if the board does not fire them, most of the time a new board is elected. i've seen that in a few times in past 4 years where cooper square came in to manage coops and condos.
>cooper square is made of thieves that enrich the board members
That's a strong allegation. How do they enrich the board members?
by overcharging on Local Law 11 work and kicking back to board members. same thing happened in the 90's with a few management companies that spent some time behind bars. i've seen brick work being done on areas of the building where the bricks were perfect. they took the project and double it's size to ensure that there was enough to go around. in some buildings, the board members got enough money to move on up into another building as the gravy train was over and the maintenance/assessment was extremely high.
>and kicking back to board members.
You are saying that there are actual secret cash payments being made from the management company to board members?
leelaura My opionion may be slightly biased since I myself work in the property management field but there are many key factors consider btu yes you may be slightly overcharged . i would advise since you are urging for a change in management that you seek out 5 companies and do a compare and contrast for services, rates and quality.
If kickbacks go on, I give the parties credit for keeping them secret. The contractor would be kicking back to the managing agent, and the managing agent kicking back to the board members, and all without anybody squawking or going to the DA. How do they all manage to get together for negotiations?
My old building had turnover for our Co-Op's representative every 2 years . It was a nightmare , and the current rep is a TOOL
Cooper Square manages my condo building and they're awful - unresponsive and absolutely too much "in bed" with the board. How exactly would money and kickbacks transact?
what specifically is cooper square doing wrong?
My building uses Cooper Square, and I am a board member, would never tolerate even the approach of kickbacks, etc (as I'm sure my fellow board members would as well), and am relatively happy with their overall quality of work. You make pretty strong accusations backed up by absolutely no facts. When you say bricks being replaced that did not need replacing - says who, you? You an engineer who actually surveyed the property? And if you are and did nothing about it, you should lose your license.
Agree with kehoeba
Accusations are easy. Street easy anonymity makes it all to easy to make baseless accusations. Everyone always assumes there's a kickback when most of the time there is not.
kind of the way you view the us government, right?
Interesting comments about Cooper Square. I'm not making any accusations, but our building has Cooper Square and our local law work went way over budget/schedule. The initial 6 month assessment for it has turned into almost 2 years. The project was horribly managed and the work really sloppy. (Steer clear of DNA for Local Law 11 work--awful!!) If only they nickel and dimed the shareholders. To fill out the building questionaiire for refinancing (a document that should be readily available), they charge $150.