Sunnyside

Newhomebuyer, if you "Search Discussions" you will find threads on Sunnyside as well as some specific developments in the area. You will also find no shortage of threads (w/ links to articles) on the present and future of LIC. I don't want to knock your thread off topic, but I will just say that you may not want to assume that you'll be priced out of LIC.

Sunnyside is a much better buy. Try and stay on the northside of Queens Blvd.

I think Sunnyside is a much better area that LIC. More restaurants/bars, access to supermarkets. A starbucks and NYSC opened up in the area too. Parking is an issue but doable. I think there is going to be a LIRR stop at Sunnyside yards and that there has been talk about development there.

Regarding that building, the only concern I would have is that it's on Queens Blvd, so I'm not sure how they address noise. There's a thread on this site that talks specifically about the project.

Newhomebuyer- I know the area very well. I think that building is in a bad spot. It's on QB and on the south side of the BLVD. I think if you continue to look at other places you will find that the north side of QB is a much nicer and quieter area. The only problem with the area is that there very few new developments. I like the area a lot and think it is one of the best kept secrets. Good Luck and I know you will enjoy the area if you decide to either buy or rent.

DCO: we frequent the area for dinner from LIC and definitely enjoy the various ethnic restaurants and can't really explain it, but this area feels like a neighborhood/community unlike LIC. Being that there aren't too many new developments in the area, and the potential for new development isnt really there, do you think that it would hurt or help the appreciation of this property?

I noticed in previous posts from you that you feel that LIC is overpriced, but what are your thoughts on this unit if its selling for approx 560-580/sq. ft. fairly priced? overpriced? slightly overpriced? our time horizon for our next home is approx 6-8 years.

Although its on the south side of queens blvd, proximity to the subway is important to us, as well as it being a new development. Will it have that much of an impact when reselling...the fact that its on the south side of queens? Sorry for all these questions, but want to get a little more information before any decision is made.

Newhomebuyer- Just read your post. You have to forgive me I have to get some sleep. I would love to answer your questions and give my opinion. I'll post in the morning if your still interested. Sorry just have to get up very early. Goodnight.

DCO: Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Just as a background, i'm looking for a 2b/2b in the 500-600k range, close to shops, close to subway, new development. we searched in LIC, but in that price range and size, we couldnt find anything and if we did, it was the least desirable units. for that same price range in Sunnyside, we are able to afford the best units.

Newhomebuyer- Well thanks for being patient. Let me start by tell you why I have a problem with LIC. It's actually simple price. I just don't think that the area is worth the money. And the reasons are vast and boring. I know that you stated that you have seen some of my posts about LIC so lets not re-hash, unless you want to know., Just let me know and I will give my reasons why it's not worth the money.

Sunnyside is by far one of the best kept secrets in this city. The proximity to Manhattan, transportation and the real feel of a neighborhood. There are many different aspects of the are some better then others, however as whole a great area I would recommend to anybody. Just to let you know I do not live there now. I actually grew up in the neighborhood years ago. Since I have left the area about 6 years ago I have missed it. The area is broken up in several parts to people who know the area well. The area covers the 7 line stops of 39st, 40st, and 46st. 46st. is probably the area most centrally located to the area. The stop after that is 52nd st. and that is actually Woodside (another great area you should consider). The area of south of 46 st. and QB is probably the busiest area. I find it to be a little crowded. My feeling is my live in the crowd when you can just visit and leave with a 2-5 min walk to a much quieter area. Best of both worlds. That area also has a JHS that can get a little crazy on dismissal. Not bad kids, but just kids.

As you start to move west (still on the south side of QB) you enter a quieter area I'd say between 46st. 40st. Almost all of Sunnyside has older buildings with great character. Most of the area is rentals or coops. Condos are almost non-existent in the area. This area has leaves you dead center for all the great restaurants. Just about every one is 3-5 min walk from this location if you stay about 3-4 blocks with QB.

Keeping on the south side of QB. bet. 39st until you hit LIC becomes more of a industrial feel. Not really more to say then that. I hope this helps. I'll give you my opinion on why I think the north side is much nicer if interested as well as Woodside if your interested. I hope this helps.

DCO: thanks for the insight on the neighborhood. You dont need to re-hash your thoughts on LIC as I've read your arguments in other posts. Can you address some of the questions I previously posted: "I noticed in previous posts from you that you feel that LIC is overpriced, but what are your thoughts on this unit if its selling for approx 560-580/sq. ft. fairly priced? overpriced? slightly overpriced? our time horizon for our next home is approx 6-8 years."

You also mentioned that Sunnyside consists of mostly rentals and coops, with condos being a rarity. Do you think that hurts or helps the property value. I feel that young professionals like myself will sooner or later be priced out of LIC and move to the next closest community (i.e. Sunnyside, Astoria, Woodside). I dont expect Sunnyside to be the next hot community like LIC and Williamsburg, I just want to make sure that a 500-600k home in Sunnyside will sustain its value.

Obviously you cant predict the future, just want your 2 cents since you're familiar with the neighborhood and buying real estate is new to me.

I don't think that it's worth that kind of money. The truth is that you can probably find a similar sized unit in a coop for $100,000-150,000 lower in a better area if Sunnyside. $500-600 is way over the top for the area. Look at comps. The only problem is going to be your going to have a hard time finding anything except coops. I also do not like the location of that building. It is a very busy and noise location. Price is always a huge factor. At that price and knowing the location I would pass but I wouldn't give up on the area.

If you can wait and the only reason you passed on LIC is price you might find that in the next 12 months that $600,000 is going to put you back in the game. Just stay away from the Queens plaza Area, the waterfront is the better bet once price start to fall. Again I hop this helps.

Also Astoria is your best bet if you need a condo instead of coop. There is more new developments in Astoria then Sunnyside Or Woodside. Woodside and Sunnyide are very similar areas. I used to walk all over both areas with no problem. Woodside 51st to 61st. If you are interested in Woodside I would checkout the area around Wind Muller Park. It's bet 52st and 54 st. on 39 DR. (north of Skillman Ave) You will be surprised how nice and convient the area is.

Newhomebuyer, I was in the same boat as you last year. My wife and I were looking to purchase a condo outside of Manhattan (more space, way cheaper). We looked at LIC, but didn't feel like waiting for the retail infrastructure, and also sorta lack of a "feel." We actually rented in Woodside for a year while we were deciding - which I feel is quite undervalued esp since it's the first stop on the LIRR (11 minutes to Penn Station), and it's also an express stop on the 7 Train. It's a bit more gritty than Sunnyside. Sunnyside just has, more charm, more quaint, and overall cleaner/nicer than Woodside. It's got some really charming parks and gardens as well.

Now I won't rehash what I've written on other threads (I'm actually going to just post it below) but we ended up buying in Jersey City - which was a huge surprise to us. Great neighborhood feel, arts scene, cafes/restaurants, shops, retail, and there are some great bargains to be had. Just wondering, is there any particular reason that you're tied to Queens? If you're working in midtown, then I would understand - Queens could work better in terms of commuting. But back to your original question - I'm not sure if in 5 - 8 years that Sunnyside's value would hold. I was looking at Woodside, and they had some 1BR condos (in postwar low-rise elevator doorman building, but certainly not your luxury high-rises today) that were going for $350K last year (probably $400psf or so). In any case, Woodside is certainly different market than Sunnyside. I certainly suppose that if you were looking to settle down, I would say Sunnyside seems like a nicer bet. They have farmers markets, parks - its safe, and pretty kid friendly. But I'm willing to bet that LIC will be pretty nice, but it's quite pricey already.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/3182-long-island-city --> Have you seen this thread on LIC? It might be useful to also read other input on the area vs. comparable neighborhoods.

I'm new to this forum. I've also been looking at Sunnyside, specifically at the Phoenix Condo which is what Newhomebuyer has been looking at. I've also browsed the discussion specific to the Phoenix as well and agree with most of what's been said. I was pretty much set on making an offer until today when I decided to take a look again at the neighborhood. While leaving on the 7 train towards Flushing, I looked out the train window and saw the entire west wall of the Phoenix covered in graffiti. The roof of the building next to the Phoenix (Korean Comfort Food) is relatively unprotected, so any determined individual can easily scale up the building. Now I know that graffiti is pretty much part of the neighborhood but my concern is that a luxury condo should have better security (someone will eventually figure out a way to scale the enclosed common area). I don't know if the current tenants have any concerns but just wanted to see if anybody else was concerned about the graffiti/vandalism.

Sunnyside is a good deal. You can't compare new construction condo prices to older coops, which is the majority in both Sunnyside and Woodside and have a lower value but much higher maintence. Plus because condos are difficult to get in Sunnyside, you have something that is valuable. You should be able to get a 2BR for at or under 500k.

If you like these neighborhoods, I would look at coops as well. They also are a good deal and you can get more space for the money.

raymondtlee: We definitely considered JC, however, the biggest drawback for us was the reliance on the NJTransit and the PATH. Although the 7 train is not always reliable, I thought it was more reliable than the aforementioned. Also, I have clients throughout the city and since the 7 train cuts through manhattan, i'm able to get to any place, whether its upper/lower west/east side with relative ease. My biggest concern is what you pointed out. Is Sunnyside going to hold its value especially when development is not as robust as LIC. Only time will tell.

LP05: I lived in LIC for 3 years in a luxery high rise with doorman, security cameras galore, and we still couldnt avoid some vandalism. The neighborhood around the sunnyside building is definitely rough around the edges. I thought the phoenix condos had adequare security. I know that there is a live in super as well as cameras throughout the building. The more walls and fences there are, the more the building starts to look like a prison.

Building - I bought a 2 br unit in this building after shopping around bk, lic, astoria. It's a nice building, nice young mix of people, safe and secure. I am loving my place and the neighborhood so far. As for the grafitti on the building, its unfortunate but this is NY. There is graffitti everywhere. I think the building is very secure but if somebody wants to tag up a building, its hard to stop.

Area - Area is alot nicer and more well established than LIC. LIC's waterfront is really nice but the other areas didnt do it for me. There is another new dev in the area if you want to compare it to something (citiview sunnyside). Aside from them, theres not much else like it in the neighborhood which to me made it attractive. LIC is oversaturated with new dev and I foresee them decreasing in value in the next few years. It will be hard to hold that kind of value with such an under-established neighborhood infrastructure.

Sunnyside - Sunnyside will hold steady in the future. Dont expect any dramatic changes in the neighborhood. You might see some of the older building convert to condos but I cant see alot more new development.

See my other threads for more neighborhood comparison and thought behind the purchase.

Let me know if you have any specific questions about the building. I'd be happy to give you more info.

newhomebuyer - I bought in Sunnyside north near Skillman since 2005. The neighborhood is convenient, safe, and quaint. When the Phoenix opened, I almost made an offer on a 2bd/2b, but decided not to because of possible noise issues. Phoenix was the second new development in the area, there are several in the works as well. I think with the credit crisis, some of the constructions are slow going. (There is another one on 42nd St on the north side; and the one on 44th St is fully sold or rented.) Though the price is relatively inexpensive for the Pheonix, I think you will have a better selection when more condos/coops come to the market. Or, you can pay less for a pre-war coop on the north side and renovate it to your liking like I did. A lot of the prewar coops in Sunnyside north are well kept. The neighborhood has changed and is still changing since 2005...it seems like the old Irish neighborhood gave way to gentrification (expanded organic section at the Met, Starbucks, New York Sport Club, farmers' market, hipper restaurants/bar/grills/diners/cafes, organic shops, etc -- all changing on the north side. So I think if you are to buy in Sunnyside, buy in the north side...the value may hold up better.

ladi - you are misguided if you think LIC apartment prices are going to decrease in value in the next few years. It really isn't oversaturated with new development because there was no development before. The infrastructure and amenities are coming in fast and will happen as more people move in. You should hope LIC values don't go down, because the higher values in LIC are one of the reasons Sunnyside prices will stay strong.

I disagree LICComment.. LIC is overpriced for all the buildings that arent near the waterfront (I'm talking about HV, OHP, 1050, etc). If the infrastructure/amenities/stores improve, then its a different story. I wouldnt foresee much change for the established neighborhoods like Sunnyside, Astoria based on the fact that the outskirts of LIC go down.

Just my opinion and what led me to my choice..

LICComment- What do you make of this? I can't figure it out perhaps you can shed some light on possible reasons for all the rentals at View 59. It's over 30% of the building.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/3937-view-59-in-lic-12-units-for-rent

ladidadi123: thanks for your comments. now that you've been living there, have there been any problems that you didnt foresee. Perhaps you can address the following questions. (1) How is the train and street level noise. I did stay to listen to some trains pass by, but not during the morning and evening rush hour when the express is whizzing by. (2) i noticed that the floors in several of the units that i visited were a little uneven and creaked in certain areas. do you have the same issue with your unit and was the sponsor willing to address this? (3) Any concerns that a significant portion of the units have been reserved as rentals? (4) Did you hire a home inspector prior to purchasing and if so, were there any significant findings, and (5) most of the people on the thread have pointed to the north side of queens blvd as being preferred. The south side seems a little more gritty. After living there, any concerns of safety living on the south side.

RE08: I do agree that the north side is more pristine and better kept than the south, but we really dont want a pre-war fixer upper. We're relatively young and dont want the hassle of renovating nor do we feel capable of doing so. If this wasn't our first home purchase, then i would be more inclined to. we had a short list of must haves: new construction, short commute to city, close to subway, close to shops and restaurants, 2b/2b. Phoenix just seemed to fit the profile, perhaps its just a little too close to the subway and cant avoid some of the noise.

LICComment: I agree that Sunnyside residents should hope that LIC prices skyrocket. I currently live in LIC and am getting priced out. I make a decent living and LIC is getting too expensive to rent or buy. Many on this thread seem to be of the older crowd (30's, 40's++) and more estblished. Young professionals like myself (20's) cant afford to buy an LIC new development as a first time home. Not only are the asking prices too steep, but add in the closing costs, especially the transfer tax, forget about it. So yes, i do hope that LIC either sustains, or thrives so that people like myself get priced out and leave for surrounding neighborhoods such as astoria and sunnyside. By then, hopefully sunnyside is ready to reap the benefits.

ladi - newhomebuyer is the perfect example. I've met lots of people that wanted to live in LIC but couldn't afford it so they then looked at Sunnyside and Astoria. If LIC crashes, you better believe that Sunnyside and Astoria will feel it. However, LIC is in the beginning stages of a big long-term upswing. Those buildings may seem overpriced to you, but they are not overpriced for the buyers who are comparing it to Manhattan. It is two different worlds of buyers. The more LIC gets developed, the more the amenities will come in and the more exposure it will have to Manhattan residents and midtown workers.

newhomebuyer - I think Sunnyside is a good investment for you. I am a big proponent of owning your home, especially if you will stay there more than 2-3 years. I bought a small place right out of school 10 years ago and upgraded twice, rolling the profits into my new places. I have a big, beautiful place now in a great area and my mortgage is very low. You build equity, get significant tax breaks, control your living costs and you are in the market. If prices rise throughout the city, your property will likely rise as well and when you are ready to upgrade it will be much easier. I'm not sure about your particular building and you should always check comps and make sure the numbers work for you, but the area is great for a starter home.

(1) How is the train and street level noise. I did stay to listen to some trains pass by, but not during the morning and evening rush hour when the express is whizzing by.
Our unit is in front of the building so my info is based on that. The back/side units are quieter. From my unit, with the windows closed, I hear very little noise. With the windows open, the noise is noticeable but not too bad for us as we are accustomed to this (lived in brooklyn 4th ave, manhattan 54th street, etc). If you are a person who is easily stirred by outside noise, the front may be a problem. Spend more time in the unit and take a good listen. Go in the evening, weekends, etc so you can see what your relaxing time will sound like.

(2) i noticed that the floors in several of the units that i visited were a little uneven and creaked in certain areas. do you have the same issue with your unit and was the sponsor willing to address this?
There was one particular spot in my unit with this issue. I had a bunch of back and forth with the tenants and they did fill and staple which addressed the problem to our satisfaction. I suggest you get any particular fix you had in mind in writing prior to going into contract.

(3) Any concerns that a significant portion of the units have been reserved as rentals?
I was concerned at first but it was mainly because of potential financing issues. It turned out I had no problem with financing due to the owner ratio being 51%+. Alot of new dev do this apparently.

(4) Did you hire a home inspector prior to purchasing and if so, were there any significant findings.
I did not hire a home inspector. I've been in the unit for 2 months and no issues have popped up for whats its worth.

(5) most of the people on the thread have pointed to the north side of queens blvd as being preferred. The south side seems a little more gritty. After living there, any concerns of safety living on the south side.
I feel safe at all hours in this neighborhood on the south side. In fact, the specific location of phoenix was more appealing to me than north side. Northside seems a little too quiet and tucked into an older style community than Phoenix's location. I looked at alot of co-ops on the north side and they didnt appeal to me location or apt style wise. I didnt have time or the patience for trying to renovate one of the older co-op units. If I found something on the north side that suited my taste, I would have strongly considered it tho. Citiview was definitely an option but the layouts were not that great.

I've been in Sunnyside for over 5 years and I believe it is indeed a hidden gem. I get to work in midtown including my walk within 25 mins. Living in Sunnyside, I have the liberty of owning a car which we use on weekends to go on our weekend getaways. We can totally survive without one because everything we need is nearby.

I'm on the south side which is a bit grittier, but more convenient in terms of shopping along Greenpoint Ave. Overall, it is still a very safe area. Most of the newcomers are young professional like yourself. I would not count out a co-op building because once you renovate the kitchen and bath, it's almost as good as a new apartment.

I'm wary of new construction. The reason is that when the tax abatement expires, you'll be the one holding the hot potato with noone to toss it to. Find out how much taxes are after the abatement is over and factor that into your buying decision. New construction is assessed differently than older buildings and you definitely want to know the value of the actual taxes. For the Phoenix, I'd imagine at least $4k per year for a 2br/2ba.

Unabated tax currently on phoenix is $3000 for 2 br/2 ba. I'm sure that number will raise by time abatement expires.

See the NYTimes article on the couple who bought a 3 br 2 ba coop in Sunnyside. Maybe someone can post the link.