when to pull the plug on a broker

Pru: about 8 weeks ago

This was first the fault of the broker for not managing your expectations about pricing in a down market. Broker's that take over priced listings are not doing the Seller any favors. However, now the ball is in your court. The place is not selling and there is one reason...you are priced too high. There is a magic number for everything and you are not there. Buyers are still looking for good deals and if you aren't getting any people looking, it is the price. Also, closing yourself off to Open Houses is a mistake. Wanting to rent your apartment could be a mistake being that there's been a shift again and the rental market is majorally down. If you do not want to lower your price, then you should tell your broker to bring in a stager. These are professionals that come in and actually "stage" your apartment and make all the negatives into more positives. I don't know how much you paid for your apartment, or how much you owe on it, but I do know, if you are thinking that you are going to actually "make a huge profit" in a down market, this could be a mistake. Good luck.

Emrolover: about 5 months ago

Does this broker have other listings that have moved? Or did you hire a friend who is just a very occasional part-time broker?

Riversider: about 5 months ago

Don't forget that rents have dropped this past year.

Another reason for home owners to not believe CPI numbers(they exclude home pries and only look at rent). Now the gov't will tell me my cost of living has gone down!!

wishhouse: about 5 months ago

Don't forget that rents have dropped this past year.

wishhouse: about 5 months ago

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/business/2007_BUYRENT_GRAPHIC.html
Plug in what you will be able to rent your place for, as well as the other stats (taxes/maintenance) and figure out what price it has to be at to make it worthwhile in 5-10 years. This will give you a different perspective on how you've done on the pricing front.

Fluter: about 5 months ago

The price is too high, clearly.

I also suspect the decorating might, might, be seriously wrong for the demographic that would be interested in buying your place.

A broker I met years ago gave me some sage advice: Decorating sells. You obviously love your decorating, and people know that and no one wants to offend you by telling you the truth. Maybe not even your original broker.

Buyers have got to be able to imagine living in your place. It maybe too original for that.

You're wealthy enough to let it sit for a year, you should be able to afford some changes in the decor. You need to find a different broker who gets this and can tell you what to do. Then you need to do it ;) if selling is your goal.

Good luck to you!

romary: about 5 months ago

exc advice also from Squid and Ali.

romary: about 5 months ago

RE2009 is on it - more details otherwise basta.

drdrd: about 5 months ago

It seems to me that you are too defensive about your perfect, mint-condition apartment which hasn't had a nibble in a year. It's priced wrong or it has been poorly promoted or both & it seems that you need fresh input to get it sold.

RE2009: about 5 months ago

this is a ridiculous crytic post.
the market is in the loo and the only way to sell it is to price it right. if you do not want to share the details then don't ask. reread your own responses and you will see how silly this all is.
sorry to be so blunt but someone has to

lo888: about 5 months ago

wonderingtoo - why are you so worried about sending us the link? Is it because of the broker? I think your post should be more about why the unit has not sold but we have too little to go by. Would gladly help if we had more info. Btw, don't underestimate the importance of light. In a buyer's market, apartments with major deficiencies (like limited natural light) will not sell unless they are priced at a very steep discount. What price per SF are you asking and what neighbourhood are you in? (Apologies if I missed this info.)

front_porch: about 5 months ago

everybody who wonders why I'm at a dinky little neighborhood firm rather than at one of the big three, 30 years is one of the reasons. He's forgotten more about great brokerage than most big-firm agents know.

wondering with an o, one thing you don't mention is your apartment's price stratum. I'm not talking about the "is the price level too high" question -- I'm talking about whether a potential purchaser would need to take out a jumbo mortgage. We have seen the market for higher-end properties (let's say above $1.5 million) to be much more logjammed than at lower price points, so if you are above that, you have basically been looking for a cash buyer.

However, there's been some loosening in even that market segment recently, and we're starting to see offers in the higher end.

As far as open houses, they don't sell higher-end apartments. One hour every two or three weeks is fine, because your actual buyer is going to come in by appointment.

For under $1.5 million, I'd say one OH of one and a half to two hours is fine, roughly every other weekend. Your buyer may well come in to the OH, but if you're too available, you'll get more lookers, but not necessarily more buyers.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Squid: about 5 months ago

I haven't read through this entire thread so someone else has likely mentioned this but I'll toss my hat in as well.

It's terrible marketing strategy to allow an apartment to falter on the market for months on end, price cut after price cut. The longer the apartment lingers, the staler it gets and the more it seems like something's 'wrong' with it and potential buyers often shy away without even bothering to look. A lot of this is purely psychological. Small, frequent price chops don't help either--they make both the broker and seller seem clueless.

Your broker was remiss, IMO, in not taking a more proactive approach to moving this apartment. When he saw it wasn't garnering any offers he should have made big marketing changes, possibly drastically lowering the price to create interest. Very likely he allowed it to be priced too high at the beginning, which is also a huge blunder.

You mention the lack of view and light--these things are absolute deal-breakers for many buyers, regardless of how 'lovely' the apartment may be. But, there are at least strategies that can help, such as doing away completely with clutter, painting in light, sunny colors, and installing excellent lighting. You can even put sheers over windows that look into brick walls to 'soften' the effect. Has your broker ever suggested any such improvements? If not, he's not doing his job.

It may at this point make sense to take the apartment off the market, do some tweaking, and put it back on in a month or two. No, it won't wipe out your history of languishing and cuts on sources like Streeteasy, which track all activity, but it will look fresher on your broker's site at least.

30yrs_RE_20_in_REO: about 5 months ago

"The math is pretty simple...apartments that are priced right given all of the variables are selling."

And then there are brokers who are selling apartments that "shouldn't be selling" (according to the SE group think), but the broker doesn't laugh at ludicrously lowball offers of 30% off (like they should according to the SE group think) but instead end up negotiating a deal and closing it. But how could that happen when we all know it can't? ;)

30yrs_RE_20_in_REO: about 5 months ago

"30 Years - forgive me if this is known and I just missed but what company do you work for you? I always find your advice to be extremely good - I didn't know you were a broker, I thought you were a private investor."

I have a desk right next to Ali/front_porch. I have my Associate Brokers License hung with that firm. But in general (as Ali will probably confirm), I'm not really a "retail broker"; I offer a fairly diverse array of services, including "standard" RE brokerage, but mostly to a more institutional clientele, as well as trading on my own account. I've known the principal of the firm for 20 years and he and I have an arrangement where he provides certain services for me and I for him (like deal doctoring any office deals where anyone wants my help without my usual fee for doing so). It's actually a funny coincidence you ask: just last week I had 3 Sponsors (of past offering plans who still control a fairly hefty portfolio of unsold shares each) walk in to my office unannounced (separately, not a group of three) simply because they were in the neighborhood and wanted to a)pick my brain, and b) see if I had anything for them to put money into.

cleanslate: about 5 months ago

I think if you don't price an apartment right and there are drawbacks like no light/views, buyers tend to get turned off by that. And then they don't even bother offering or even try negotiating, as they don't find the place impressive enough, esp. for the price. I think you need a new broker who can lead you to a realistic price point that will sell your unit.

tandare: about 5 months ago

wonderingtoo -- personally i think open houses less than 2 hrs are useless, a lot of people won't be able to make it or will assume that after trying to get to see a few other places the same day it will be cutting it too close to missing it, to bother coming to yours. If you look at your watch and calculate that you MIGHT make the open house, you might not bother -- will it be worth it to rush over, show up totally sweaty and end up with 10 minutes to see it, when you might like to spend 30 minutes there? I think 2hrs minimum is better just my opinion. If you are worried about a dearth of activity making it look bad, perhaps there are some friends of yours, or neighbors who could be enticed to visit during the open house?

Also, if you broker is the one pushing for an open house, I think that's your problem -- if you really want to sell it, lower the price. Price, price, price.

You say it's a great apt, except for light/view. We just looked at an open house last weekend we truly expected to love... the renovation was very well done, nice details, but it was dark. The only room with sunlight was one of the bedrooms. The living areas where you spend the most time were very dark. Unless the pricing really drops I don't think we'd be interested as a result.

Call another broker, ask them to do a 2nd opinion. Use comps of recent closed sales, not listing prices, then reconsider with or without your broker what to do next. If you really want to sell it, lower the price.

smacstein: about 5 months ago

The math is pretty simple...apartments that are priced right given all of the variables are selling. Lots of have gone to contract...time for a new broker.

ab_11218: about 5 months ago

in my experience, there are people coming in 15-30 min late to a 2 hr open house. i usually stayed for 15 minutes only. if the open house is not in the beginning, 11-12 noon, or the end, 3-4 pm, of other open houses, there's a lot more chance of people just not bothering.

wonderingtoo: about 5 months ago

interesting ab_11218... I feel the same way though B says a one-hour is better as it allows for cross-traffic and psychologically a sense of more interest.

I think there's validity to both. Again, this is why I'm throwing all this 'out here' - I need some total objective opinions.

I really like the ethics and MO of my broker. But when is enough, enough? And when do we know if is it not about the broker and more about the timing and current market climate.

As you can imagine, I'm wondering...hence my name :)

ab_11218: about 5 months ago

ok... one out of 4 is not bad...

open houses should be at least 2 hrs. by providing only a 1 hr window, you end up missing a lot of people who just misjudged the train, the kids, the.....

i've seen people spend upwards of 40 minutes in the apartment they were interested in, that's most of the open house time right there.

wonderingtoo: about 5 months ago

ab_11218 ~ the location is solid.

wonderingtoo: about 5 months ago

Timeline

1) July-August 2008: price too high, made reduction
2) September-November: reduced price got no offers, Broker says economy to blame

took off market

4) Spring 2009
Back on market with new reduced price
no offers
Some interest, but Broker feels the lack of light/views, and tepid economy is the reason for no offers.

5) Summer 09
Reduced price again, no offers.

Broker feels it's a combination of lack of light & views/market hesitancy/and price

Rethinking new strategy.

I have had no problem whatsoever with price reduction. Broker is being the conservative one, not me.

Question, is the 'classic' Sunday open house usually one or 2 hours long. Is there feeling as to the benefits of shorter vs. longer.
?

ab_11218: about 5 months ago

price, location, no views and no light.

cleanslate: about 5 months ago

I am curious about this comment.

"I like the broker very much and their argument(s) as to why the unit hasn't sold seem valid."

So what are the arguments why he/she thinks it has not sold?

SkinnyNsweet: about 5 months ago

Did anyone notice this line from Wondering:

I've received the broker's stats in comparable listings and my ask price was right on target. Under, even.

In a frozen market, shouldn't the comps used to determine your pricing be based off of sale prices, not listings? Or, maybe you use the bottom 5% of the listings, etc.? It sounds like this was based off the average comparable. Perhaps that could be part of the problem? Those other average listings aren't moving either.

gcondo: about 5 months ago

brokers.... remember, their job is to line their pockets. They corner the market and collude to shut you out. They will spend 2,000 to make 100,000. 6%/5% just doesn't make sense anymore.

Make them lick your boots before you sign that exclusive.

raddoc: about 5 months ago

Whenever one is on a ventilator ? :)

bubbles: about 5 months ago

I listed my apt last may and the broker was a greedy pig and overpriced it. I thought the orginal price was too high but he swore up and down it was the right price. Six months, one offer feel through and two never made it to contract i kicked him to the curb.
Hired two new brokers, we all sat around and said this is a great apt, well priced ect, ect ect... Three months later the brokers said, take a deep breath- you want to sell lower the price A LOT. We did and it sold.
It's a new world in RE and we have to get our heads around that, for good or for bad.
Wonderingtoo- i said ALL the same things you said, great apt- i just need the right person. In the end it's the price. Let me know if you would like the names of these amazing guys

Riversider: about 5 months ago

Some clients will go with the broker who estimates the highest selling price and then get upset when their unit languishes...

scoots: about 5 months ago

30 Years - forgive me if this is known and I just missed but what company do you work for you? I always find your advice to be extremely good - I didn't know you were a broker, I thought you were a private investor.

30yrs_RE_20_in_REO: about 5 months ago

"unlike 30yrs, we're cheap AND easy :)"

What are you doing on Friday night? ;)

Downtownster: about 5 months ago

wonderingtoo - unlike 30yrs, we're cheap AND easy :) If your apartment is downtown, we'd be more than happy to pop by and let you know what we think of your broker's ability. After seeing about 60 apartments, we've got quite a few opinions on brokers :)

Shoot us an email at downtownyblog@gmail.com.

http://downtowny.blogspot.com

splaken: about 5 months ago

This is amusing but the ending solution is also amusing - rent it for 6 months or a maximum of 1 year? Who rents for 6 months in all but the most special circumstances (and I always wonder why the owner bothers). The whole thing is simply to the owners' convenience and ignores the market. Who is going to pay the broker fee for this rental? Will it be offered at a slightly below market price to get someone in immediately, or will it rent over the market because it is such a prize and then suffer price chops over a few grand in annualized rent???!!

30yrs_RE_20_in_REO: about 5 months ago

If I had a seller who wouldn't listen to my advice and thus I couldn't sell their apartment as a result for over a year, I'd fire the client.

looking2return: I've done that (but I'm not cheap).

wonderingtoo: about 5 months ago

interesting advice. Although, I know this broker now personally, and cannot imagine them only being professional.
Question: how long should the classic Sunday open house be? 1 or 2 hrs?

looking2return: about 5 months ago

You could potentially hire a professional "shopper" to go see the apartment and evaluate the broker for you. Where to find such people? I don't know.

Perhaps I'll start a service!

wonderingtoo: about 5 months ago

thanks evnyc -and by simply one vowel.

No worries, I got much from it and am grateful for all who contributed.

evnyc: about 5 months ago

Oh, this was such a good thread until whatever idiot out there who gets a kick out of impersonating others hijacked it.

wonderingtoo: about 5 months ago

My plan is to take it off the market temporarily. I can rent it out for 6 months to a year until I get a sense of what the market dictates. I appreciate all of the advice and will re-read the thread above, minus the b/s and nasty posts. And begin next time with most likely a new broker and better strategy. Thanks again for all the feedback.