Sale at 331 West 87th Street - Townhouse $3MM

jojo10: about 10 months ago

The block of the 129 W 69th Street house is great. It's also right across the street from a pretty church. The West 70th Street block is nice, but at least the outside of the house doesn't compare to the 69th Street house. If I had the means (which I don't), I would definately choose the West 69th Street house over the West 70th Street one.

nyc10023: about 10 months ago

Yes, because a 4-bedroom Trump at 200 RSB would have taxes around the same level (19k) if not more - I think that 10-year tax abatement has just about expired.

uwsmom: about 10 months ago

So, do you think $19k/yr is low? This block of W 69th is lovely!

nyc10023: about 10 months ago

Huge tax difference. What I'm saying is that you can't count on the taxes staying proportionately lower.

uwsmom: about 10 months ago

Hmm, so taxes here are $19k/yr. http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/361448-townhouse-129-west-69th-street-lincoln-square-new-york

Equally nice street (In fact, W 69 might be nicer). That's a pretty significant tax difference, no? Maybe not.

nyc10023: about 10 months ago

In the case of 132 W 70, the market value jumped based on property values of the nabe in general. Nothing to do with any improvements, from what I can see of the tax history.

nyc10023: about 10 months ago

Nshipley - this is why the neighbors matter. If they have been contentedly paying 40k+ for years and years, filing tax cert not going to help.

uwsmom: about 10 months ago

So, re: taxes - one can assume that 132 W 70 has had many updates & a place w/ $2k montly tax probably has not (assuming none are single family homes)? or is that too simplistic?

uwsmom: about 10 months ago

West 81st - that is also my favorite UWS TH. The first picture is great. Interestingly, this was listed as sold a day or two ago. Now it's still on the market.

nshipley: about 10 months ago

nyc10023: I was referring to a tax certiorari, when you can petition to have the taxes reduced.

West81st: about 10 months ago

If we're picking without regard to price, I'd probably go with this one:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/360030-house-327-west-76th-street-upper-west-side-new-york
Down 28% from the original ask.

nyc10023: about 10 months ago

Ah, I agree.

happyrenter: about 10 months ago

i'm not saying it shouldn't be taxed at that rate. i am merely pointing out that it **is** taxed at that rate, and that taxes have to be taken into account.

nyc10023: about 10 months ago

But to put it in perspective, it's not that outrageous - why shouldn't a property that sells for close to 5 million dollars be taxed at 40k+?

nyc10023: about 10 months ago

Nshipley - sorry, they don't get reduced when you consolidate. The tax rate changes and you are assessed on 6% as opposed to say 45% of market. But since you have to file reno permits with the city, etc., you then get hit by a larger increase than you would have normally be hit with.

uwsmom: about 10 months ago

yuck - the tax talk is ruining my fantasy (seriously - the info was helpful. Thanks!).

Another small dive on UWS, http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/361448-townhouse-129-west-69th-street-lincoln-square-new-york

nyc10023: about 10 months ago

Without looking at the records for 132 and its neighbors on the block - first off, there are at least 7 units in the building which means that tax is based on a higher % of the assessed market value.

But if you think you're going to save money by converting into single family, think again - the assessed value will go up, and you won't be protected from the year-over-year increase because you would have filed something with the bldg dept.

Bottom line - property taxes in Manhattan are sky-high (Bk hasn't quite caught up even though there are many multi-m properties) and townhouses bear a disproportionate load compared to larger apt buildings like prewar co-ops. Condos have hefty tax assessments as well.

nshipley: about 10 months ago

Multi units bring higher taxes. Also, if it's transferred recently, the taxes go up...many multi family units have very high taxes. You can apply to have them reduced if you consolidate, but it's a long process and I don't think it ever works.

nyc10023: about 10 months ago

It's a fixed % based on "market value" and type of building (1-fam, etc) and there is a limitation on how much it can increase year-over-year. Be forewarned that any job filings with the building dept and the sale transaction (as well as other sales on the block) will trigger a raise in the market value. Also, the "lower" taxes on some buildings reflect exemptions that the previous owners may have been entitled to (senior citizen, etc.). For a 5mish townhouse on the UWS s. of 96th, in general, the tax bills will be high.

A cursory search on NYC property dept website will tell you exactly what the tax bill for each property is and its neighbors, as well as the previous 2+ years of tax history. Careful inspection has shown me that the properties with the lowest taxes generally belong to long-time owners who have not filed any jobs with the building dept.

uwsmom: about 10 months ago

why would the taxes be so high at 132 W 70?

uwsmom: about 10 months ago

I have no idea what determines tax rate.

happyrenter: about 10 months ago

sure you can compare the west 70s to the west 90s. depends on the block. in general the 70s are more coveted, but you have to do more analysis.

uwsmom: about 10 months ago

didn't even pay attention to that! I only noticed that it was coming down. You can't compare West 70's to West 90's, right?

happyrenter: about 10 months ago

uwsmom, the taxes on that one are 43k/year. that's awful.

uwsmom: about 10 months ago

lovely!

Another chop, http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/349484-multi-132-west-70th-street-lincoln-square-new-york

happyrenter: about 10 months ago

if i bought a townhouse i'd want a garden, so :(. i think that one next to the church is rather gorgeous though, don't you?

West81st: about 10 months ago

HR: Wow. If you buy it and keep it as a multifamily for a few years, can the kids and I live in the smaller unit?

happyrenter: about 10 months ago

if we are talking price chops on UWS townhouses, i'm a fan of this 25% cut--albeit on a more expensive house on 75th street:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/355584-anyhouse-311-west-75th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

uwsmom: about 10 months ago

Yeah - this is a great space. I've seen quite a few price chops this week.

nshipley: about 10 months ago

tiny back yard. Literally on top of the church.

West81st: about 10 months ago

Around the corner on West End between 90th and 91st, the Greek Orthodox Church just knocked 14% off the asking price for the old house next door.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/300844-multi-631-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

nyc10023: about 10 months ago

Exactimundo.

West81st: about 10 months ago

nyc10023: Maybe they'll throw in a few nice dinners. ;o)

nyc10023: about 10 months ago

BTW, just to make it clear that I don't think 3m is a realistic price for 331W87, but it's a world apart location-wise from 220W85. W87 bet. RSD and WE is gorgeous.

nyc10023: about 10 months ago

Based on the occupations of the sellers and their various dealings on ACRIS, I would be surprised if they hadn't overextended themselves... Possible that there's family money, but then why sell?

nyc10023: about 10 months ago

My gut feel is that if 331 lowered to 1.995m, they'd have more than one bid over ask.

happyrenter: about 10 months ago

nyc,
what did you find in your google search that i missed? i guess i am not as google savy as i thought.

nyc10023: about 10 months ago

There aren't many of those on the UWS. I think 312 W 90th is going to be interesting to watch. The sellers have probably overextended themselves as a cursory Google search will inform you :)

happyrenter: about 10 months ago

nyc10023,

i agree that width is not everything--a narrow house with a low stoop and center stairwell can be absolutely lovely. but lets remember, in this case you are not getting the entire house. you are getting three vacant units. i'd also add that this is 14 ft house, not 18 feet. so while width is not everything, that's not the only problem with this house.

uwsmom: about 10 months ago

I'm a sucker. I would suffer in a 14-15 foot wide townhouse =)