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NWT: does that mean to buy a condo in a building that's 20-100 years old and has been converted to a condo building?
Just make sure that the sponsor isn't in control of the board and then worry less about the "shitbox" problem.
The NYS-required warranty (or a sort-of-equivalent) is only for new construction of less than five stories. To find out how often it's waived -- to put in context -- you'd have to find a lawyer who's seen a lot of such offering plans. There aren't that many less-than-five-story new condos, so the odds aren't good.
The statutory warranty, the implied warranty, and the promises made by the sponsor in the offering plan are all you've got to go on. And then, as semerun said, every aspect of the development business is founded upon avoiding liability and evading enforcement when the inevitable problems crop up.
Read the offering plan of even something as fancy as 15 CPW, by developers with an excellent reputation. You'd think, reading it, that they intended to erect a shitbox and would be nowhere to be found once they had your money.
Then think how ratty and dated that shiny new construction and doo-dads are going to look in ten years. Then skip the suspense and buy a condo that's 20-100 years old, where almost every construction defect has already been found and addressed.
UE98- Forget what you know about warrantee's re: new construction condos. The developer will either be legit or they won't. If they are concerned about their reputation they will step up and make things right- especially on the larger items. The NY A.G.'s office won't go after a small developer unless the situation is downright dangerous.
We considered suing, but the developer set up shop as an LLC- so we were afraid of spending all these $$$ chasing after a company that was never going to pay out.
Our prospectus didn't mention a developer's limited warranty- but it did have a special risk section that went down a similar path. As for speculators- we had nearly half our building as investor apartments- not a good thing in any building, but especially bad in a small building. This made decision making horrible because the investor units wanted short term fixes- as cheap as possible while owner occupied units wanted the repairs and common charges to accurately reflect that this was our home. It took far too long to fix our problems because of this- and it was only when the many of the investor units were resold did we start truly fixing our problems. If you are buying a new construction building- you have no way to know who will be your neighbors. I wouldn't casually recommend buying an investment unit in a small building that is brand new.
Thanks for the responses.
Great information, but I am still trying to find out if such a sponsor-created "limited warranty" is a common thing in new, small condo constructions -- not necessarily details about the law itself. And if it IS a common thing, to what extent the changes should go "safely" (knowing there is no "safe" situation).
(For example, I know materials are covered for 6 yrs, in-wall systems for 2 yrs, and construction defects for 1 yr. But if an offering plan should change this, would it be customary?).
Thats kinda what I'm trying to avoid. Did you also have a developer's limited warranty in your prospectus? What do you mean by speculators and how much did this change the financial burden?
Plan for the worst, hope for the best. The warranty for many small developers may not be worth the paper they are printed on. My building had material defects- now mostly fixed (on our own dime), but it was tough to swallow the repeat, high dollar amount assessments. Owners had to spend more than $35k each on average to fix the worst of the problems. Since we had a bunch of speculators involved- it was far more than they anticipated spending, and we had to force some sales or face defaults. Lucky for those owners- they were mostly able to recoup their investment with a decent return- despite the hefty assessments.
Has anyone had any experience with their condos? My offer got accepted on a unit in one of their new buildings in Brooklyn. I've been doing pretty basic research online and nothing bad has turned up yet. Their buildings have been popping up all over Brooklyn and I suppose they have a reputation to maintain; but I do wonder about the quality of their construction. I realize it's definitely not top-notch - but has anyone had real problems / horror stories?
milenkopekija, there're a few current co-op conversions. E.g., the Carlton House because there's a ground lease. The Chatsworth is going co-op, too. Maybe because the co-op can keep its underlying mortgage, and so buyers don't have to pay as much up-front.
Or those of you who want to buy could join together to acquire it from the landlord, and would then be the sponsors in a co-op or condo conversion.
Sounds as if you wan to do what the tenants of 3 Gramercy Park West did, in 1969. You all buy the building as tenants-in-common, with occupancy rights to your apartments. You'd have a co-ownership agreement setting out everybody's rights and responsibilities. It wouldn't be a co-op, as far as the laws go, so no financing, and the RC apartments wouldn't be automatically decontrolled upon vacancy.
no one converts the building in a co-op anymore...the landlord would go for a condo because its worth more
He cannot sell you your unit - it's against the law. Crazy but true. Your only chance is to get a group together and buy the entire building from him and then convert is per the conversion laws or hope that he converts the building himself.
It's very unusual for a small landlord to go through the bureaucratic mess this is a co-op conversion so my guess is that your only chance is to get your landlord to sell the entire building and then you convert it.
Understood. That's what I thought.
What do you think of this type of unit/configuration for an investment property? My worry is that the monthly utility costs to the tenants/renters will be discouragingly high. At the same time, are they less prone to creating major problems for the building? (ie, water leakage which would damage exterior walls, etc.). When you mention that they are more for hotel/motel rooms, I worry about their long-term use in a residence.
Primer, care to weigh in?
That falls into the self-contained category. They're designed for motel rooms and spaces like that. The developer doesn't have to engineer a heating system or run pipes. The PTAC goes into a hole in the wall and plugs into a 240 outlet. They're less than $800 apiece, so no big deal replacing them when they're shot.
I THINK the units that will be installed are Friedrich PDH07K3SF (according to the offering plan -- I could go down to the site and take a picture of them). Does anyone know about the reliability or longevity of these units? NWT, do you know which configuration this type of PTAC is? Seems to me that it's all electric. jelj13, during your stays with these buildings, did you, or any of the other residents, have problems with insulation, leaking, the PTACs breaking down, weird smells, etc?
We lived in these apartments. I don't remember the brands or the number of lines.
In one building, we were responsible for all the repair costs. In another, the building paid for the cost of all repairs for the ORIGINAL units. If you replaced the unit, you took on the responsibility.
The utility bills were only high in the summer just as with any a/c. (At first our bills tripled in the summer . We discovered the nanny was turning on all the units in all the rooms at maximum cool. That stopped after we showed her the electric bill.) Since both apartments faced south, bills were not as bad in the cooler months.
I guess your lease would have to cover repairs and the cost of heat. I should add that owners did not have problems attracting and keeping tenants over the heating/cooling. Also, the new PTACs are supposed to be more energy efficient.
There're lots of different configurations.
-- Self-contained heat and A/C. Cheapest to install, tenant pays for both heat and A/C, so pricey for them.
--Heat via 2-line steam or hot-water piping to building system. Electric A/C paid by tenant. Tenant pays to run blower.
-- Both heat and A/C via 2-line cooled or heated water from building. Spring and fall switchover. Tenant pays to run blower.
-- Separate 2-line feeds from building for heat and A/C, so can heat one room and cool another. Tenant pays to run blower. Most flexible, but high first cost limits it to high-end buildings.
I know, it's amazing to have an actual sidewalk. It is Party City, and an extension of a school, and one more tenant, possibly a gym. It's starting to look almost sleek. I can't believe how much those condos above it are going for now.
After 5 years it looks like they are almost finished. Anyone know what's going in the space... please don't tell me party city.
Anyone living there now? curious to know how it is.
What everyone has said here is absolutely correct and now the tenants that have been renting have been told that they must leave at the end of their lease term unless they would like to purchase. The tenants were told about 10 days before Christmas.
People are moving out, but the standards are quite the same - nothing has really changed. As harlemgeek mentioned above, you can hear every conversation from the hallway and the hallways are not consistently cleaned.
So now, these places are going back on the market, but with years of wear and tear. The renters have taken good care, but are pretty much being shoved out.
This place doesn't look lived in at all. There'a graffiti on the outside of the building. A poor attempt at landscaping and garbage and piles of dog poop that don't seem to ever be cleared. I checked out the building and the apartments actually look really nice - beautiful kitchens and nice bamboo floors, even your own washer and dryer. But the hallways are dirty and unfinished and I can pretty much hear every conversation from the hallway. I took a pass.
To aqueductcourtrenter: Which unit are you in? We put down a deposit on a unit in the building and see that it has been rented without our permission. We have reached our 24-month contract expiration and are waiting for the return of our deposit.
I live in 469. Sorry to hear about your ordeals. Looks like the they got a new TC of O now for 479, based on DOB site.
A family member of mine is in contract for a unit in this new development. I haven't see much information about this particular building in the forums. I'm hoping to hear your thoughts and perspectives on this building.
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New opportunity for lajeep405: http://therealdeal.com/blog/2013/10/11/kids-dont-really-see-sheep-in-the-middle-of-new-york-at-a-gas-station-shvo-says-video/
nddd, check out this recent thread, and good luck:
nddd, if you find out any info on getting your money back, could you please post what you find -- for others in your position?
maybe i am naive but what is the allure for new construction. i just went to contract and this is for investment to rent out the cardinal sin on this blog for a gut renovated 670 sq ft condo east 70's gym pool 24hr doorman for 699,000.new granite kichen new bath with jaccuzi and a killer view to the north
Unit 902 went into contract for $1,097 psf at 1.15 million.
The LIC train is rolling. Anyone bought this building a few years back just had a cool 40-70%.
Hello, any news about this building? There are some recent re-sales. Just wondering.
I do live in LIC. 14 years.
I'm not sure about how to make the convo private though. I don't think there's a private inbox on this site.
I'd be willing to chat as I almost bought at both buildings at one point or the other. Looked at studios in The Yard too....the building behind the Powerhouse. And The Industry, down on 44th Drive.
Yeah, I felt exactly the same way, torn between Vere's roof deck gym lobby & "cold storage" vs 1VJ 2nd floor terrace and weird gym basement 1970's fridge, but the location is great.
Do you currently live in LIC? Is there an option to take this convo private?
I read about the leaks and other stuff in the comments section of curbed or the real deal.
I actually like both 1VJ and this building. I think Vere has it over 1VJ though in terms of a rooftop deck and the gym. The gym at 1VJ is practically nothing really.
On the other hand I really really like 1VJ's location, so I guess it's up to you in terms of which is more important, bigger/better gym or better location.
But you know what they say about real estate...location, location, location. Hope this helps, let us know which one you choose!
Has anyone heard further news on retail tenants at 670 Columbus in addition to Party City, or better yet when the construction will finish? The school is finally starting to look like it may be nice.
Any updates on this subject? Thank you.
"Its better than a buzzer, but worse than a doorman. ... Its not for me, but its like I said better than having a buzzer alone. At least there is a camera and a person on the other side of the camera."
As for the package room, that sounds to me like it's more trouble than it's worth. Missing deliveries is one thing -- at least your package is still in the custody of UPS/Federal Express/USPS. Once it's delivered to your "package room", however, it's YOUR responsibility if it gets stolen.
Seems to me that it's much safer to either:
-- have valuable packages delivered to your office
-- pick them up from UPS/Federal Express/USPS yourself
-- open up a box at a UPS or Mail Boxes Etc. (do they even still have these?) for future deliveries)
-- Arrange to be home to accept the delivery for really big important items
Yes, it's a pain in the ass. But if it's that much of a problem, spend the extra $$$ and just move into a doorman building. Or hire a full-time housekeeper who'll be home to accept any and all deliveries for you.
Or quit your job and just stay home all day.
But lots o buildings have this kind of stuff. In mine you can also wathc the doorman, in the elavotrs and outisde.
My friend lives in a building where they have a camera trained on the front entry, and everyone can see who is there on a dedicated TV channel. She keeps the "front door channel" on all the time. It's better than reality TV, and really freaks out visitors when they're greeted before they even ring the bell!
For the service provided it is grossly overpriced.
Technology has grow leaps and bounds with the ability to install computer/cellphone access by owner into buildings/apartments.
I was going to dive deeper into the systems for my building but got busy and have put it off.
Right, it's a land lease, but the landlord isn't the diocese. It's an LLC whose care-of person is a member of the family that's owned it since at least 1966. She lives in Lincoln Towers.
The lease is for 157 years, ending in 2163.
Trinity Chuch, or the Episcopal Diocese of New York, or something like that, owns massive amounts of land in that area, so landlease might indeed be what's happened. Although I'd think it would be widely reported. I'm too lazy to look. NWT?
This has a better explanation: http://therealdeal.com/blog/2014/02/28/extell-plans-hudson-square-project-with-affordable-housing/
The general idea is that the market-rate cooperators don't subsidize the affordable-rate renters ... instead, the tax breaks and higher-floor taller-building allowance made possible by having affordable rental units wind up subsidizing the market-rate cooperators.
REMom's explanation might be how it works technically for this Hudson Square new-construction building, with the sponsor paying maintenance for each affordable rental unit.
All of which is the only explanation I can think of for it being a cooperative and not a condominium. Unless it's a landlease.
For the rent stabilized/controlled units in a building that has units for sale, the sponsor would be responsible for the maintenance based on whatever allocation was determined at conversion.
I'm not aware of buildings with market and affordable rate units for sale. Brand new construction with both are rental. Existing building with both that convert to condo or co-op usually have a non-eviction plan so that rent controlled and stabilized tenants are permitted to stay if they choose not to buy.
What is going up in the huge vacant lot?
It turns out that any apartments which were decontrolled before June, 2009, were improperly removed from regulation based on the owners' J-51 tax abatement. Thus, market rate tenants who were in their apartments then may be entitled to renewal leases and have been asked by the Tenants' association to call the DCHR to request that a copy of the rent roll be sent to them. 718-839-6400, option 1 for English and then 6, leave message requesting rent roll.
Here's the link to the Daily News article: http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/real-estate/upper-east-side-towers-trade-500m-article-1.1837864
They did not fire Jenny, but since she works for Schneider & Schneider, her days are probably numbered. There is supposed to be an issue with improper deregulation of apartments, but as of now, there is only a single lawsuit by a single tenant and the DCHR has not commenced any type of investigation, nor has the attorney general. If they are able to get rid of the market rate tenants before a lawsuit is filed, the problem may not hurt them. Chetrit is not averse to gut renovations and dumping huge amounts of money into buildings--Flatotel, Sony, for example. The doorman report that there are now 140 apartments vacant and that the "sister" building at 160 East 88th Street is going to be converted to condos.
They're getting on the Stuyvesant Town bandwagon.
The building was getting a J-51 abatement for a while. In 2008, that was down to $907 on on $4,400,000 tax bill. RS had dropped to 300-odd units.
On the 6/2014 tax bill, the RS count is back up to 677.
Looks as if they've already conceded that none of the 300 apartment should've been destabilized while the building was getting J-51. If it's like Stuyvesant Town/Peter Cooper, there'll be a huge process to determine who were the during-J-51 market-rate tenants, and how much they get back. Big lawyer bucks there.
Hopefully they fired jenny
Good evening. I am trying to figure out if this potential project makes sense. R6 zoning. Lot size is 18 X 80 = 1,440SF. Maximum buildable SF is 3,531. Corner lot. Would this work for a 3-unit walk-up condo? Is there a chance of fitting 3 parking spots there? I am estimating that in this area (undisclosed) I can get 315 per square foot (total SF, not usable). Based on the potential 3,531 buildable SF, the purchase price would come up to roughly $119 per square foot. What is the rough estimate of construction costs, etc. per square foot? Thank you,
there is a waste station going up on 90/EEA
Looks like something is happening there. (Might be a block or to off. West side of ave.) I past the other day and it seems a bunch of small buildings were taken down and know id a construction site. Anyone know anything?
Is the sound insulation between units enough? Can you hear footstep noise from upstairs?
I love the building. I bought on the 5 line. Its so cozy, warm, , and such a great layout. I have 2 exposures, south and east. Its a perfect location, and their are great restaurants and retail popping up everywhere. I am so happy here. My unit is fabulous.
I love it! Perfect location. My apt facing Columbus on the lower level is quiet, bright and cozy.
For those who have closed, are you happy with your apartment? What about the building?
This is a very nice building : bright, cozy, open views even on the lower levels , surprisingly quiet for units facing Columbus. Perfect UWS location. Glad to become the owner of the 2 beds on the 7 line. I was debating myself before my 10% down payment early last year because of the no windows bathrooms. But I love it now.
Does anyone know if the "Hudson Boulevard" has been approved? Took a walk in the area the other day and there doesnt seem to be any progress change on the blocks north of 33rd st. How with this impact 34th, 35th, 36th in that general area?
What are everyone's feeling on the Hudson Yard project which now underway?
How will it affect North Chelsea and the surrounding neighborhoods?
Yes, NYCMatt "hit the nail on the head." He always does. Wish he were the President of my Board (now that I am no longer President)!!!! LOL
NYC Matt, you hit the nail on the head.
The problem with buying new construction *before completion* is that you lose most of your leverage once you've made the offer and put down the deposit. They've got you in the bag, and they know it; there's no longer an incentive to attend to the business of finishing your apartment with any degree of urgency.
I'm closing on a new development in a few days and I will say that it hasn't been the best experience. They are over 9 months delayed. We went on our walkthrough two weeks ago and the floors still hadn't been sanded, some appliances weren't in, and there were scores of detail work that hadn't been attended to. They are now saying that they are ready and are urgently pushing us to close (even after being delayed for 9 months) because they are cash strapped. They are really unscrupulous - saying that they sent us a time is of the essence letter when they didn't and can't produce the certified mail receipt showing that they did. Still, we would rather just close and get it over with than litigate at this point. The apartment building itself seems quite well constructed and once the apartment is actually finished it will be beautiful. I'll find out soon enough.