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Can someone update stevejhx's numbers? 10D sold for $2.3MM about 17 months ago. 14D for $2.95 2 months ago. 8D listed for $2.5 about a year ago but didn't sell.
"Never buy a place that costs more than it would cost you to rent it, out-of-pocket, because if you wouldn't buy it to rent to someone else, why buy it to rent to yourself?"
I like this as a rule of thumb. If I find a place that's no more than $2k above equivalent rent, I'd consider buying; if it's $5k above, I won't buy.
"all I'm saying is that in the past 8 years the reason to buy has changed"
but thats not all you said. Again I would agree that as buying gets more expensive relative to renting that non-economic factors will be more likely to be outweighed by the extra economic cost. That is obvious. That is very different then saying those non-economic factors no longer exist which is what you said.
"as you read my reply your initial respone was probably"well of course they expect to make a profit eventually...thats normal"
no not at all.
"but at the price levels we saw, no one with a brain was doing that"
another clear value judgment. you might say the same thing about someone who paid 10k for a 42 incg plasma 7 years ago or who pays a 500k initiation fee at a country club. and thats fine for you. but you're imposing your values on others.
I actually agree with flmd's sentiment. Its not 100% clear in the way he wrote it... but, yes, the motivations have definitely shifted away from non-financial in the last few years.
Mainly because the prices were too high to buy without the financial assumptions. I get that some folks see other benefits from owning, but at the price levels we saw, no one with a brain was doing that.
ccdevi: all I'm saying is that in the past 8 years the reason to buy has changed...it is so subtle (you dont even realize it) and yet so strong...as you read my reply your initial respone was probably"well of course they expect to make a profit eventually...thats normal"
all I'm saying is that thought process involving profit is a very recent change...in the past people did buy using just the non-financial factors you discussed...that has changed but everything eventually resorts to the mean. That is nature.
>Thanks steveF! Hopefully, you also took advantage and made a similar killing.
Why? How do you know you really like SteveF and wish him well? This is New York City, statistically there are people who agree with you on any given issue that you otherwise despise.
Thanks steveF! Hopefully, you also took advantage and made a similar killing. I'm pondering my next upgrade. It was definitely a trip down memory lane, browsing some of the old threads that have continued for years... haha. I don't understand how the bears are still around, having been SO wrong. All you have to do is look at West81st thread on comps to see just how many zeroes they were wrong by. =P
aifamm...wow bringing back memories. A bunch of us tried to reassure those who's fear took over. That now is the time to buy not sell. However the vast majority of people let fear take hold and it was every man for himself. The smart level headed courageous ones then were offered the opportunity of a lifetime and swooped in to take the rewards. But It's been that way since the dawn of time and will never change......But anyhow, thanks for the memories, enjoy your gains and good luck!
I haven't been on here in years. I only came back because I was stunned to hear that my condo is up like 50%. It's quite amusing to see the same doom and gloomers spreading the same fear for years. A friend of mine sold her place for a loss after Lehman (due to fear). She was shocked to know that if she held it until now, she would have made at least 500k. Think for yourself, buy smart and ignore the noise.
And today paper talks about people who are getting past the statute of limitations and may get their home free and clear despite not making payments for 5 years.
LOL. I remember this thread. I guess the bulls are laughing all the way to the bank now eh? Ca-ching!
This far into the bull market ... still bullish over the next 12 months?
tell us about your family.
Here's to you C0C0. You and your family.
that's not new either, is it?
do you have any new material?
@uptown_joe : thanks for the update.
Hudson Heights!!!... All these made up names!
I'd recommend Hamilton Heights over Hudson Heights. Dollar for dollar Hamilton Heights is just better.
I did a buyer representation in HH (oh, Washington Heights, for heaven's sake) recently, and seller's agent was Paul Chapru of Corcoran. I don't know if he does rentals but you might ping him. He was great, and lives in the area.
The NYT did a neighborhood profile piece last fall.
Weekend maintenance on the A train (where it ends at 168 with a shuttle beyond) is rare recently.
Groceries haven't really changed; there are several new restaurants in the last few years.
For rentals look through the local brokers (Stein-Perry, Simone Song and maybe one or two others) as well as the usual internet listings. You could also call your way down this list I found googling:
In general up the hill and northerly (Fort Washington, Cabrini and Pinehurst, toward 190th) is going to be pricier and often nicer than down the hill (Bennett, Overlook) and southerly (181st or a bit below), but it varies of course. Evaluate the individual building on BISWeb, apartable, DHCR, etc. for complaint history and so on.
as long as the walls aren't in really bad condition, i wouldn't bother spending the money painting. take some magic eraser to major scuff marks and do a good deep clean and leave it at that. you are right that whoever moves in will paint anyway.
just have the apartment professionally cleaned. If it is an unusual, difficult to visualise layout, it might be worth staging. Speak to your agent and they can usually help. In Dumbo you should have no issues finding a buyer... unless the building isn't financially sound or the listing is very expensive!
I just moved out of my 1bd apartment in prime Dumbo for the suburbs. The market appears to be hot as every unit in my building goes into contract within 1-2 weeks of being put on the market. I will be putting my apartment on the market soon. My question is, should I even bothering hiring someone to put a fresh coat of paint for the open house, or just do a standard cleaning? The condo was built in 2005, and I'm assuming any future buyer would probably end up renovating it to their own taste anyway. The walls are plain white, I never did any crazy wall paper or paint colors.
340 West 86th Street #3A: Pre-war five-room condo with lovely period details. Resold 23.5% above 2008 acquisition price. The 2008 contract was post-peak, pre-crash. Not much work done on the apartment during the intervening years. The building shows better than it did in 2008.
10/09/2003 Previous Sale recorded $967,500
04/11/2008 Listed by Douglas Elliman $1,895,000
05/04/2008 Price decreased by 5% ↓ $1,795,000
08/07/2008 Listing entered contract
09/25/2008 Sale recorded $1,700,000
09/12/2014 Listed by Corcoran $2,300,000
10/17/2014 Price decreased by 5% ↓ $2,195,000
02/03/2015 Listing entered contract
03/31/2015 Sale recorded $2,100,000
I'll play: 305 West 98th, #5DS, 1,200 sf Convert-3, 2-BA.
Purchased 12/2007 for $1.16M
Sold 3/2015 for $1.325M
Any new comps from West81 or others? UWS?
215 West 88th Street (Merrion Condo), low floor "G" units with sponsor renovations. 73.4% increase from the 2009 low, for a unit one floor closer to the street.
---------- Recorded Sales ----------|---------- Previous Listings ----------
09/09/2014 #3G $2,774,731 11.2% | . $2,495,000 3 beds 2 baths 1,676 SF
08/18/2009 #4G $1,600,000 -15.6% |↓ $1,895,000 3 beds 2 baths 1,676 SF
Correction: The Sellers' acquisition date for 90 RSD #11F was 2006, not 2005. The 2005 estate-sale buyers resold without renovating.
Agreed steveF. From what I've seen, for lower priced units the numbers can quickly head up and over 100 in areas where inventory is lowest
Used to be like 4 saved in 3 days.
Whoa Streeteasy jumping in. Front porch I agree with the all eyes on new listings comments especially for the smaller segments(studios/ 1 beds). You look at a new studio listings fairly priced and in 3 days 30 saved users. These are by far the highest numbers I've ever seen. Granted I'm only looking at Condos but I'm sure it's condops and coops as well.
Interesting discussion and great points by front_porch and urbandigs (per usual). In Manhattan we certainly see seasonality in recorded sales volume - late spring it picks up before relatively slower July-September only to inch up again in the fall. The strength of these peaks and valleys change by year, but the pattern is most certainly there.
Thanks again front_porch and urbandigs. Perhaps related to front_porch's point, fewer people willing to take the profit and move/buy outside the city? I wonder what it will take to change the equation.
Dollar is way up, maybe this changes the picture?
So you're suggesting that the Times RE people are stupid, rather than corrupt? Possible. Or it could be both.
With Eyn you don't really have corrupt as an option, so you're pretty much left with stupid.
Anyway, I don't know why Eyn is wasting his time helping Europeans buy in NY. He should be helping New Yorkers buy in Tokyo where their dollars are worth 82 times as much. I also hear that Harare is nice this time of year and the USD does crazy far in Zimbabwe.
> I don't know who's stupider: Mr. Eyn for saying it or the NYT for publishing it.
or the foreigner that feels the need for an address in manhattan and hence pays for our services: thank you snob!
NYT: For Europeans, with the euro trading at 1.34 to the dollar, “their money is worth 34 percent more now; it is a very safe bet for them,” Mr. Eyn said.
I don't know who's stupider: Mr. Eyn for saying it or the NYT for publishing it.
Any foreign buying weakness because of the Dollar's strength?
NYRENewbie, Manhattan real estate today is all about Orson Welles.
stevejhx, your posts are always "out of this world". Thanks for bringing a smile to my face. Wasn't Whitley Striber a New Yorker, way ahead of the curve in showing his apartment to aliens?
Yes, cliff, this will be Orson Welles' "Bidding Wars of the World" again.
You though it was scary over the radio!
I'm not sure about Martian buyers, but many brokers I've dealt showed signs of being from some other planet.
Not as expected.
What does it mean a building has a environmental restriction designation in nyc?
everything that cc2015 said is what I would strongly agree on before buying... But I just assumed those were all too obvious to mention.
If you have good financials and a stable job I would try to buy. Another thing to consider is family. If you have a family with children, there could be a VERY big difference in the school districts when buying vs renting.
If there is even a small possibility that your finances will change or you will have to move before 2 years I would reconsider. It can often take up to 6months to finalize a sale. If you can't afford 2ren'ts/ mortgages I would be very careful.
All things set aside prices will probably be higher in 2 yrs
Agree w/ jelj13. Try the NYT buy vs rent model. You enter in your purchase costs, time frame, tax rate, etc and it will tell you what comparable rent would make you agnostic. Lower rent, you rent. Higher rent, you buy.
If you can afford it... Buy it! for MANY MANY reasons which can't be described with words.
Have you looked at the "buy vs. lease" model on the NY Times Real Estate section? I found it helpful.
*below 50 day moving average, not 200!
Oil below $50, 10 year below 2% Dow and s&p below their 50/200 day moving averages. That said I just wanted to say Happy New Year to all the SE folks for adding to the always interesting discussion on NYC real estate. It has certainly been a wild ride and quite entertaining at times!
The Burkhardt Group
And here comes the volatility.
Buy the dips or sell the rallies? I'm flat just watching...
cra, than's for your 2 valuable posts on Streeteasy since February, 2008.
If it doesn't sell it is likely to grow to 900 square feet
I have been looking at a magical apartment. From the floorplan (640) to the original listing (725) to the latest listing (740), the square footage grows like Pinocchio's nose.!
For what it's worth, I just had a bank appraisal come in at 45 sq ft (about 7%) more than the listing...Based on the above it doesn't really matter, but figured one "happy story" would be fitting (in light of the holiday season)
To use the mezzanine example, what happens if there's an official regulation that says spaces with less than 8' (or < 7'6") ceilings should not be counted toward square footage?
Let's suppose there's an 800 square foot unit where 200 square feet have high ceilings and 600 square feet have 7'5" ceilings. Can the unit owner, whose offering plans says 4 rooms, go back to the co-op and sue for share reallocation based on material breach because only one of the four rooms would meet this new legal criterion? I know share reallocation is tough, but it has been permitted in cases where an apartment was falsely described in the offering plan.
Can the co-op then sue the city for tax reduction because a certain portion of the square footage that's currently counted is now deemed to be "unofficial" square footage?
I see all kinds of problems with using too stringent criteria, especially with older, grandfathered buildings that do not meet current code.
Fairly certain, but maybe not. Too lazy to look it up, so easily can later say you weren't wrong because you didn't look, then its the other person's fault, not yours. Maybe, I guess, possibly not, depends.
"Do they include outliers? I thought they didn't, although that might be miller."
Once again, not sure.
Rhino and aboutready talking about price trends is like Cheney and Kristol talking about what we should do in Iraq...
"still, it's shocking how little most save and how much $ they waste on housing. puzzling behavior. "
Millions of people make their livings in New York City, but quite a few of those millions cannot afford to live anywhere in the city, and many more are just barely making it, "wasting" their money on housing without having anything left over to "save".
I suppose everyone in the middle class who makes their living here in New York City should consign themselves to three hour commutes, living in Reading, Pennsylvania, so they can avoid "wasting" money on expensive housing here in the city?
meant "households should be saving 10%-15% at least in average"
expert, no doubt. housing should be saving at about 10%-15% given how fast boomers are retiring. still, it's shocking how little most save and how much $ they waste on housing. puzzling behavior.