60 White Street #2W
2 beds•2.5 baths•1,962 ft²
Condo in Tribeca
134 West 46th Street
1 bed•1 bath
Rental Unit in Midtown
160 Leroy Street
Which is best. Been looking.
None is "best" hands down. I love my super ultra quiet bosch. My friends like the silverware tray in their mile although it seems annoying to me. It is personal choice since different features appeal to different people.
Anything I've read says that the Bosche & Miele are quiet, and have more features, but I'm reading anecdotal stories about more frequent breakdowns and expensive repairs.
My friend loves that his Bosche is so quiet, but says it works a lot better if you take the time to scrape your plates.
we have Miele in the city and Bosch in the country. Miele is quieter and dry better. Bosch was less expensive.
best one we have had is a top of the line in whirlpool -- sorry but I have tried all these and the whirlpool model was quieter, used less energy and lasted longer -- cost was similar to Bosch
Since this is anonymous:
1) KA cleans the best, and has the ability to handle "deep" rimmed bowls with its racks. Neither Bosch nor Miele has the wider "American" style racks - which means it's hard to get cereal bowls clean.
2) Miele is the quietest. I can't even tell it's on, unless I look at the light. Miele has unparalleled customer service.
3) Miele and Bosch have that completely integrated model, which I love. KA may have this model by now, I don't know.
Bottom line - depends on your priorities. If you want a real workhorse and have American style plates, go for KA. If all your plates are thin and stack well in a Miele, go for Miele if you can afford, esp. if noise is important.
chowhound.com has a board that discusses a lot of kitchen appliance questions. Lots of wisdom there. One thing I heard about Bosch is that they recently changed where they manufacture and ever since, the quality has gone down hill. That said, I love my Bosch dishwasher, but purchased it before the change.
We bought the Miele Optima for a new construction house. It is great. At first I hated the cutlery tray as Kyle says but I have come to think it is far better and once you get used to it more convenient than the traditional basket. I still don't like the fact that it takes almost 90 minutes per cycle, but that is the case with most newer machines that use less water. The racks on the Miele can be adjusted vertically so it can fit anything. We went with the Optima because I like to be able to see how much time is remaing, rather than the full stainless fron panels. We have a KA in our apartment that is just fine but in my experience it does not come close to cleaning as well as the Miele, and is far louder but shorter cycles. Look at gardenweb.com if you want to know everyone in the world's opinion about appliances.
Riversider...we have had an array of dishwashers over the years in various houses and apartments. With this renovation, we put in a Miele and i am astounded how much i like it. i thought i would hate the cutlery tray but now find it is a major convenience. It gets the dishes so very clean with a bare minimum of scraping. And it is so quiet i never know when it is on until it beeps that it is done. I have not had a Bosch but there is no comparison with the KA. Also have the stackable Miele washer/dryer and again...astounded how much i like them.
I love my Miele Slimline. I can't comment on the others, except to say that at one point many people were saying that KA was resting on its laurels ... also, Bosch seems to have a wider range of models, including HD/Lowes pricepoints, and I suspect their quality ranges along that continuum.
Dishwasher noise is a measured and published phenomenon, so you can compare that point on specs rather than opinions.
Just did a major gut apt and put in 2dishwashers - both bosche -HATE them! When cycle is done - still very wet, sometimes smells and find it impossible to load as the dividers are too close. Didn't get the miele because of the cutlery rack - am regretting
We like our 15-yr-old Bosch. We loved it when it was whisper quiet, but it started getting noisier about 3 yrs ago. It still cleans great, but we always do a quick rinse before we load since we only run the dishwasher every other day, so things would sit and set. We've had it repaired once 5 yrs ago. The electric panel short-circuited. It was a $180 repair.
leelaura: European dws leave the dishes wet. I prefer it because they use less energy. I open up the dishwasher at the end of the cycle and let the dishes air-dry. As for the smell, try cleaning out the food filter.
Our Kitchenaide is good, was here when we moved, based on my experience with it I would not buy one.It gets the job done fairly well but is certainly noisier than the Miele/Bosch. The pot scrubber mode made quite a difference when I had a full load including some seriously dirty bake ware and pots. I seem to get a little bit of a film/residue occasionally when I don't use the high heat wash cycle as well.
BTW, leelaura, if this is something you hate and it's in the budget, replace them. Dws are something you use frequently enough, that when you do replace them, you will wonder why you didn't do it sooner. I started off in my current place with Fisher Paykel dishdrawers. I loved the idea of running a wash after every meal instead of accumulating dirty dishes. In real life, it didn't work. Dishdrawers couldn't accommodate very much at all, and there was wasted space due to having 2 separate drawers as opposed to one full-size dw. I lived with it for a year, before giving up and buying a full-size Miele. My only regret was not doing it sooner. And I sold the FP dishdrawers on Craigslist in one day.
I love my FP dishdrawers. Live alone, entertain rarely. Two for dinner yesterday. The greasy cooking/serving platters, silverware, plates fit easily in one drawer. The glassware and non-greasy things I loaded into the 2nd drawer to run with this morning's breakfast dishes. I often use the upper drawer as a drain tray for the many items that need only a quick rinse, e.g. measuring cup, saucer, many serving bowls. I always use the short cycle in eco mode - 38 minutes - and air dry. When I had a traditional DW it often took 2-3 days to fill it, whereas I now run a drawer daily without feeling guilty about the water and energy. When I do entertain, prep dishes run in one drawer while we eat and are done before dinner is over, so it would be easy to run more than 2 drawerfuls for a dinner party if needed. I chose the drawers for space reasons: open the drawer a few inches to add and retrieve items without blocking the aisle. I would never go back to a traditional DW. For my kind of household, the drawers are perfect.
Reading all above, I realize the USER will drive the choice of what is best in many circumstances. I, for example, live only with my partner so don't run the machine but twice a week--maybe 3 times. Very different than a family of 4. Also, I can't help but give plates a quick rinse. So caked on mac and cheese is not a relevant test for me of what a machine can do.
As far as quiet goes, I don't get how a silent machine can be quieter than another silent machine. My Bosch makes 10 seconds of gurgle noise once during a cycle and otherwise I have to look for the red dot being projected on the floor to see if it is even on. I don't get how a Meile can be "more" quiet than that. I have an open kitchen and can sit anywhere in the livingroom or dining room and not hear anything from the dishwasher. It's is the custom panel Bosch btw.
As for "features" mmost users will find that 95% of the time they hit "regular cycle" and walk away. The washers have dirt sensors and automatically adjust washing to address how dirty the plates are so there is just no need for the other cylces I find. On RARE occasions I may hit the pots/pans button if stuff is extra dirty. But my pots with anodized aluminum shouldn't go in dw so I wash them by hand and don't put them in the machine.
For silverware, mine comes out clean in its "basket" style insert. Maybe a tray gets it clean too. But how much cleaner than clean is clean?
Again: get one that is quiet and that you like the looks of. I'm extremely picky and research all to death typically. Once you are dealing with the top models of these brands, there isn't a bad choice among them.
I hand-wash my own dishes.
Even after dinner parties with stacks of dishes, soup bowls, silverware, and service platters, the longest it has ever taken me to wash, dry, and put away the dishes is 30 minutes. I have yet to see any dishwasher do better.
Oh yes, and no dishwasher can truly *scrub* the dishes like a pair of human hands.
Matt, I'm sure if you carefully plan out your kitchen design before the next renovation, you can find room for a dishwasher.
Alan, I already have a dishwasher.
I use it to store gift wrapping supplies.
I have the custom panel Bosch, too. I've had the same experience as kylewest -- it's totally silent; the only way I know it's running is by looking for the red dot on the floor. Mine has the cutlery tray -- maybe a fairly new feature for Bosch? I like the tray a lot so far, if only because it frees up useful space in the lower rack.
I love my miele. If you load the silverware tray properly --spoons all together, etc. -- it makes putting silverware away extremely easy. .
Just too your advice apt23. Put it off as long as I could..
Check out Asko, too. Barely audible, very high quality components (mostly steel), 3 rack / 7 piece design with silverware tray basket knife drawer that can accommodate an amazing amount of dishes in whatever configuration you choose. I love mine.
Miele wins hands down. Also - Miele refrigerators are better than sub-zero. Better design, more usable space, cool interior lighting. Miele has fantastic customer service.
Subzero frig has great features, but don't have the reliability. For frig , hands down winner is architect series kitchen aid
i recently replaced my noisy, unreliable whirlpool with a bosch and love it. Very quiet and works like a charm. I did my research and was told that it's more reliable than Meile, and more affordable. It might also depend on the model.
The articles I read point to Bosch outsourcing parts and building in America vs Miele building in Germany and producing all parts exclusively. Don't know if that's hype or relevant, but that's what they claim.
lad, asko is great. we have two and super quiet.
you have two dishwashers?
Matsui, That is correct and highly recommend that if you have space. Also, you can easily wash your stemware in a dishwasher if you position the glasses properly so that they do not move easily.
Bosh vs. Lebron vs. D Wade?
European Dishwashers: These include brands like Miele, Asko, and Bosch. All three are considered a premium model and in the past were typically priced higher than the domestic options. But recently, the domestic brands like Kitchen Aid, GE Profile, etc. offer models in the price ranges of the European brands. They use a unique style of filtration using a series of stainless mesh filters that help clean the water before it drains. This is very energy efficient and eliminates any extra moving parts. European models are also typically quieter than your average domestic models using more insulation in the door, the tub, and around the pump and motor. European dishwashers also differ from US models in the way they dry. They do not use an exposed heating element. They rely on the residual heat from the final rinse, and a series of fans (with the exception of Bosch) to use condensation in the drying process. It does not “bake” the dishes, which saves a ton on energy but it can take a bit longer to dry. All things considered, European dishwashers are built to a higher standard than that of a domestic machine, which improves the longevity.
Domestic/US Dishwasher: These brands like GE, Kitchen Aid, Maytag, Jenn-Air, and Frigidaire. Most of these models use a hard food disposal which takes the place the filtration system that the European models use. This is a full-proof method of grinding any large food particles to bits so not to impede the drain cycle. There are no filters to remove or clean which makes a lazy person happy. They also use an exposed heating element for drying which leaves no doubt that the dishes are dry. It uses more energy and vents the moisture out of the front or top of the dishwasher, but is considered a “better” dry than a European machine by many.
The life expectancy of a typical appliance depends to a great extent on the use it receives.
Moreover, appliances are often replaced long before they are worn out because changes in styling,
technology and consumer preferences make newer products more desirable. Of the major appliances
in a home, gas ranges have the longest life expectancy: 15 years. Dryers and refrigerators last about
13 years. Some of the appliances with the shortest lifespan are: compactors (6 years), dishwashers
(9 years) and microwave ovens (9 years).
Apparently ASKO is significantly less reliable than Kitchen Aid & Miele
Went with the Miele and I can tell you its better than kitchen aide.
What kind of china, stemware, and silverware do you use everyday?
Have the Miele, and while it is not optimal for larger serving pieces, it is great for everything else. Even put Baccarat crystal in, using very little detergent, and the lowest temperature setting. No damage.
ceramic plates, Reidel Wine Glasses, Oona flatware. Plus some odds and ends, All comes clean
we have nine children and had an asko dishwasher for twelve years. usually run dishwasher twice a day...it was great.... never a problem. when it needed to be repaired after twelve years, we just opted to get a new one. we were talked into the kitchen aid as we were told that it has a larger tub (which is true of the american dishwashers as compared to the european dishwashers). we were also lured by the disposal which is built in...sometimes our kids dont rinse before loading. we have had nothing but trouble...leaking, not starting and worst of all, it doesnt fit flush in the space our old one was in due to the larger tub(or so thats what the installer says)..it has been a huge disappointment..i say stay away from kitchen aid.
What kind of car do you drive?
Yukon xl..used to drive gm 15 passenger van but the motor went out at 100,000 miles and we were so disappointed. we bought a refurbished motor and it never ran right so we sold it. We now have three children out of college and one in college so those that are still home fit in the yukon...otherwise we take two cars.
Had German, American and two Japanese.
The American had the softest ride and worst reliability
The two Japanese had the best fuel economy and while reliable the cars showed wear
the German best handling, best reliability(surprised even me)and .... best audio system.
The days of going Japanese are over, but some of the new American cars are interesting.
Cadillac ATS looks interesting.
ph41: isn't your full-sized Miele dishwasher like my compact Miele dw in that the bottom rack has flipdown tines to flat-bed accommodate serving pieces and pots and the like? I think one side at a time, for more flexibility.
ah - no, my Miele(s) don't have flipdown tines. I do have one that has one of the two bottom plate racks removable so it can be replaced with a rack that accommodates cups and glasses.