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Crime-ridden. Drug infested. Section 8.
The general rule of thumb about Brooklyn: Open up a map. Draw a line along Flatbush Avenue. Anything north and east of that line is undesirable. Anything south and west of that line is a safe bet.
Thanks NYCMatt, you have been very helpful on all my post.
Great advice Matt. Here's some more: read Matt's post. Draw a line through all the words. Re-read what's left. Anything left is a safe bet.
Seriously though, there are different sections of Bed-Stuy (like most neighborhoods), and things can change pretty drastically from block to block. The area does have a reputation, though I think there are some really nice sections of brownstones and a decent amount of gentrification (for better or worse, depending on your view of course). Train access can be pretty spotty, especially in the northern sections (Tompkins Park area), but gets better if you're just off Fulton. Stuyvesant Heights is generally regarded as the "nicest" section.
Thanks could you suggest other areas to check out that are reasonable in price.
Tx, be wary of all these politically-correct posters who will try to steer you into the slums of New York. They are desperate for the gentrification that will never come.
Do you live in Bed Stuy bjw2013?
No I do not am not familiar with Brooklyn at all, gotcha NYCMatt, I'm no fool, thanks.
Stay away from Bed Stuy at all costs.
Can u suggest some areas
I'm not that familiar with Brooklyn, but I know Queens quite well. Have you considered Queens? I like Forest Hills, Kew Gardens, and Fresh Meadows.
I'll check it out thanks
Look, in general, lower real estate prices are lower for a reason: the area isn't as desirable. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's a dump. Bed-Stuy is most certainly not Tribeca, but to dismiss it, and rather insultingly so, as "Crime-ridden. Drug infested. Section 8" is shallow, narrow-minded, and not exactly accurate. It's not a "slum," despite what Matt may have you think. It's stunning/hilarious that he lives in Washington Heights (which I like as well) and say these things about other neighborhoods and "gentrification." I do not live in Bed Stuy, but I certainly know people who live there and love it. Anyone interested should really check out a neighborhood for themselves before taking anything on these boards as gospel, especially pronouncements that are so utterly ignorant and 100% dismissive.
I agree you have to check out at and everyone is looking for different things. I thinking that I would like a house and it seems that Queens is the place where the prices will work for me. It's funny that Matt lives in Washington Heights cause he's been dogging it all day. I like Washington Heights and would like to know what areas in Queens might compare, thanks for the input.
I think Bed Stuy has a negative reputation for a reason; Yes there are some good pockets but overall, not a safe place to be. People speak of gentrification there but I am sure it would take years before it a safe and enjoyable place to be in.
Other areas of Brooklyn....agree with Matt...anything south and west of flatbush. I would also add Fort Greene to the list. We live there and love it :)
With regards to Queens...some nice areas; however, whatever area you pick, make sure it is accessable by a good subway line.
Go to http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map
and type in zip codes 11216 or 11221 .
I hope you're good at dodging bullets.
nice map sledge--clearly tons of lead in the air in bed stuy--little or none flies in wash hts
only thing that flies, yet again, in bj's windy post, is nonsense
sledge, worth pointing out that the data go back to 2003.
Bottoms, yet another thread where you've added nothing of value except your whiny run-ins. Whatever is right!
It's great you mention that BJ as 2003 was a booming year in our economy. As you may know, during an economic crisis, crime usually rise. That means that those numbers should be much worth today.
To be more precise, during an economic downturn, crime usually rise as the 1st people to lose their job are the one with low to no education, and Bed Stuy has a LOT of that!
sledge, awesome. Anymore blatant generalizations you want to throw out there?
Then why were there 30% less murders in 2009 than 2003?
Here's your answer:
bed stuy is great for kids....awesome schools...and teachers that really care about their students....did i mention that i am selling the brooklyn bridge for a really good price?
a few questions:
Where is Styvesant Heights, exactly? Does anyone know the streets that form its borders?
Second, I have the impression that Bed-Stuy (on its better blocks) is somehow safer, more liveable, etc., than Crown Heights, where I know that I wouldn't want to be.
Is there any validity to this? Are Bed-Stuy's better blocks really appreciably better that Crown Heights' better blocks?
Finally -- I know a handful of young hipster-type women who rent in Bed-Stuy, either solo or with roommates. These types of renters -- young females who have to travel to the train alone, etc., are usually pretty sensitive to issues of crime. They won't move into areas where they feel they are likely to be threatened.
All the women I'm referring to are responsible, employed types. So why do they feel relativley secure in Bed-Stuy, if it's still so edge-y there?
"I know a handful of young hipster-type women who rent in Bed-Stuy, either solo or with roommates. These types of renters -- young females who have to travel to the train alone, etc., are usually pretty sensitive to issues of crime. They won't move into areas where they feel they are likely to be threatened.
All the women I'm referring to are responsible, employed types. So why do they feel relativley secure in Bed-Stuy, if it's still so edge-y there?"
Because they don't know any better.
Just because they're doing it doesn't mean they're reflecting some sort of truism.
I see plenty of 20-something women yapping away on their cell phones, walking right into traffic without looking. That doesn't mean it's safe to walk into traffic without looking.
there are "good" pockets of bed sty. the issue is that you share the same train stations and ammenities. so if your block is safe, just take a cab everywhere and walk just on your block.
i've read numerous articles of how safe it is and then, there's a sentence that states that these people take a cab once it gets dark (at night). so, when you get off work in the winter, just take the train to the safest spot that is close to home and then take a cab the rest of the way.
i would actually change Matt's logic a little. stay west of Ocean Avenue until Avenue J, after that, it's safe up and down 95% of the time.
"I eat Avenue J."
-- The Lords of Flatbush
"i've read numerous articles of how safe it is and then, there's a sentence that states that these people take a cab once it gets dark (at night). so, when you get off work in the winter, just take the train to the safest spot that is close to home and then take a cab the rest of the way."
As if there are cabs just waiting outside the "safe" subway stations in Bed-Stuy.
ab, you're talking a totally different part of Brooklyn here.
That's funny NYCMatt, I thought the same thing -- how could you find a cab on most of those blocks in Bed-Stuy? I'm guessing the cabbies don't pick up a lot of fares there.
I'd still like to know the borders of Stuyvesant Heights -- is that the part of the nabe that is closest to Clinton Hill? Does anyone know?
I have a friend in Clinton Hill. She has a big townhouse, she has lived there many years. She raised her kids there. She talks about how much better it is there now than when she bought in. Local People would walk up to her on the street and threaten her, a very mild-looking white lady.
She says it's not like that anymore, she can go out and sit on the stoop and talk to passersby, things are much friendlier and more accepting.
But is it improved like that in Bed-Stuy, or Stuyvesant, Heights, wherever that is? I wonder. I am a mild-looking white lady myself, not looking to be a target. If there is a strong vibe that white folks should stay out, then I would respect that. I'm not enough of a "pioneer" to be willing to fight that.
"If there is a strong vibe that white folks should stay out, then I would respect that. I'm not enough of a "pioneer" to be willing to fight that."
Right. White folks should "stay out" because the blacks somehow have a God-given right to -- what? Their Section 8 and rent-controlled (landlord subsidized) rentals?
I'm the opposite, Grammarian. I'm always up for a fight. However, eventually, the fighting gets really old.
Not as fast as the particular "always-up-for-a-fight"er in question, though.
Not sure there's general agreement on these boundaries:
oh thanks alanhart, I had not thought to look there. Sounds like it's a winding twisty border....
People who don't live in BedStuy, like Matt, love to talk about it. I wonder if he's ever been to Bed Stuy?
Anyway, the western section of BedStuy near Clinton Hill is seeing some serious growth. Tons of new restaurants along Bedford Ave, Greene Ave, Franklin, etc. Reminds me a lot of Fort Greene 5-6 years ago. I like it.
Don't let people on here scare you away. Only you can know. Go check it out. To some people, the Upper West Side is incredibly boring.
By the way, put 10031 into that homicide map, where Matt lives. Murders on every block.
"People who don't live in BedStuy, like Matt, love to talk about it. I wonder if he's ever been to Bed Stuy?"
Lived in Brooklyn for 11 years, thank you.
VERY much aware of Bed-Stuy.
FYI I don't live in 10031.
Matt is such a pill. I don't care for Bed Stuy much because of the lack of services and amenities, but I lived there for a time and never felt threatened.
1. Flatbush Avenue runs east-west: west of Flatbush is the East River
2. there are nice areas of Brooklyn north of Flatbush, e.g., Fort Greene and Clinton Hill, BAM
3. there are also rougher areas south of Flatbush, e.g., the project west of Third Avenue at 4th-7th Streets(?)
4. I know Bed-Stuy well becaise I have been in it many. many times
5. most recently when I walked up Myrtle and then east to the Bed-Stuy Home Depot two weeks ago
6. much of Bed-Stuy has gentrified into very expensive housing, e.g., $2500 and up for 2-bds
7. most if not all parts are less safe than Clinton Hill and Fort Greene
8. as a rule those areas also have fewer and less desirable amenities
9. rental activity in Bed-Stuy seems to very fast-paced these days
"Lived in Brooklyn for 11 years, thank you.
VERY much aware of Bed-Stuy."
Oh I see. That's great to know, especially since Brooklyn is so small and you'd have to go through Bed Stuy all the time when you were growing up in, oh, I donno, Gerrittsen Beach.
Your responses are typical of someone who left Brooklyn for Manhattan hoping things would be all Sex and the City and realized that it's just become a sterile Mall of America.
Native Brooklynite Bed Stuy has it's good & bad however it's on the come up
"Here's your answer:
sledge, I'm quite familiar with that story (This American Life did a great segment on Schoolcraft), but if you honestly think that issue is wholly exclusive to that precinct, you're mighty gullible in my view. malthus' point is quite valid and really undermines some of the malarkey being tossed around on this thread. Of course, bottoms will disappear from this thread now.
"Where is Styvesant Heights, exactly? Does anyone know the streets that form its borders?"
Graffiti, it's a good question - I'm honestly not sure what the exact boundaries are. MacDonough and Stuyvesant seems to be the center, but looks like there are varying opinions. Regardless, it's pretty clearly the "nicest" section of the nabe.
"Second, I have the impression that Bed-Stuy (on its better blocks) is somehow safer, more liveable, etc., than Crown Heights, where I know that I wouldn't want to be."
I know two couples in Crown Heights but admittedly have never visited, so don't know how it compares to Bed Stuy. But like you, I also know a fair number of people who feel safe living in Bed Stuy. What's happened, in my view, is that the reality of the improved neighborhood has not yet trumped the stereotype. I mean, this thread is a great example of that, although I'm glad to see some of the more recent comments don't reek of hatred and stereotyping.
sledge--incredible series of articles--disgusting, frankly--i hope this story does just go away
woops--"doesN'T just go away"
Bottoms, definitely give this a listen. Couldn't agree more on how disgusting it is: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/414/right-to-remain-silent
thanks, bjw. I can see that I need to spend a sunny Saturday walking about Bed-Stuy to form my own opinions.
Thanks to all.
"9. rental activity in Bed-Stuy seems to very fast-paced these days"
Gee, I wonder why.
I see Section 8 is popular in Bed Stuy...
"6. much of Bed-Stuy has gentrified into very expensive housing, e.g., $2500 and up for 2-bds"
What's the vacancy rate? 99.9%?
Honestly, who'd be dumb enough to pay $2500/month to live in Bed-Stuy?????
1. please dont belittle or mock other people's rent decisions
2. I was simply trying to help OP txredrider
3. I dont own in Bed-Stuy but I follow much of its market closely because I own in Clinton Hill
4. the reason rents are so high there is an explosion in new super high-end rentals or ex-condos
5. and the reason people rent them is that rents are higher in Clinton Hill and Fort Greene
6. parts of Bed-Stuy are also definitely safer than parts of Washington Hts or Harlem
7. in fact, parts of the western end are now Orthodox Chasidic Jewish and stiflingly boring
8. unless your idea of excitement is to watch a tortoise solve a calculus problem using
a technologically-outmoded abacus
"the reason rents are so high there is an explosion in new super high-end rentals or ex-condos"
The reason for the "explosion" in new "super high-end rentals" is precisely because they are ex-condos ... because there weren't enough people to (insanely) shell out half a million dollars (or more) to live in Bed-Stuy.
"2. I was simply trying to help OP txredrider"
No yo were not. You were trying aggressively to convince him to move to Bed Stuy. YOu were trying to ram Bed Stuy down his throat.
where are these $2,500 rentals in Bed Stuy? Anyone have a link?
$2600/month for 2 bed/2 bath.
But it makes me cry just thinking of what it'll look like after just one Section 8 tenant.
"because there weren't enough people to (insanely) shell out half a million dollars (or more) to live in Bed-Stuy."
Newsflash, Mattie: this happened in many neighborhoods. Not exclusive to Bed Stuy.
"No yo were not. You were trying aggressively to convince him to move to Bed Stuy. YOu were trying to ram Bed Stuy down his throat."
Socialist, you're just wrong here. The only forceful posts here are from those who are beyond adamant that Bed Stuy is a "dump" that should be avoided at all costs. Very helpful, right? I suspect a little bit of good old fashioned prejudice (the r word usually riles people up), but am not terribly surprised.
graffiti.. you can spend the Saturday afternoon in the neighb. the problem is at night. my advise would be to come in the evening, 8ish, for dinner and then take a stroll on a nice night.
there have been many people who fell in love with the neighborhood during the day just to run after a few months. they realized that the "activity" starts once the sun goes down.
1. numbered paragraphs 7 and 8 of my first post in this threat specifically said that Bed-Stuy
is not as safe as Clinton Hill or Fort Greene, and has inferior amenities.
2. please explaim how those statements condtitute "agressively" trying to get txredrider to move
Bjw, you couldn't smell shit if it was served on your plate. There's nothing racist about flaming a hood like Bed Stuy. This is a black Ghetto and no matter how much sympathy your "liberal open mind" have for these fringe neighborhoods, you will deal with High Criminality mostly due to low education and low income. What's wrong with this neighborhood is that its community is made of a large group of people who have absolutely no sense of civism. Just noticing how much they litter on their own streets shall give you some hints. Don't trust me? Go on Nostrand and check for yourself, it's a dump! More dirty than Williamsburg on a Sunday morning, exept that over there, it's all the time like that. And this has nothing to do with ethnicity, dear, this is a question of education! EDUCATION!
Your hypocrisy is also blatant as i'm sure you would NOT move there even if i'd provide you with free housing.
sledge, but there definitely seems to be some of that in these comments. I am not sure where you're getting your education stats, but I'd love to hear how a college degree teaches you to pick up trash. These comments are beyond ridiculous and show more than a little prejudice in my view. "Black ghetto"? "High criminality?" It's a joke. About your free housing offer: make it and let's see. As I said above, things can change from block to block, and there are nicer sections of Bed Stuy. So maybe instead of shooting your mouth off and making a blanket "ghetto" statement about a neighborhood, you could put a tiny bit of thought into your post. I'm not sure that's too much to ask, is it?
"I'd love to hear how a college degree teaches you to pick up trash."
This is not what sledgehammer is talking about, I do believe.
"Education" in this sense is not formal education, but that which parents teach their children about how to live like a productive and civil human being.
THAT is what is lacking in the ghetto.
That's exactly what i meant, Matt.
"That's exactly what i meant, Matt."
Your context was pretty misleading: "you will deal with High Criminality mostly due to low education and low income." Those are demographics that are somewhat measurable and verifiable. What you're talking about, it seems then, is "productivity" and "civility". And here you guys are declaring that an entire neighborhood is severely lacking those traits. That declaration is based on what, exactly? Your impression? Gut feeling? Some actual data (unlikely)? Maybe you can start to see why some might see this as a bit of prejudice. Very classy stuff.
If you like Classy, don't move to Bed Stuy, you'll be disappointed! Lol!
So you're backing off on your offer of free housing then? As long as it's equal value to what I've got now, I'm totally up for it.
Have a read at this: http://bed-stuy.patch.com/articles/crime-in-the-stuy-a-look-at-the-neighborhood
While i don't consider blogs to be proper journalism, the writer tries to stay impartial and i don't see any reason why the stats he posted would be false.
Here's some more:
sledge, from your own links: crime is DOWN 14% at 79th Precinct YoY, and crime is up 2.7% at 81st, but that "may have to do with more accurate reporting this year" due to that little investigation you mentioned earlier in this thread.
What would be awesome is if this thread had comments from people who actually live there. Like, oh, I donno... me! I love it here, have never had any problems with crime (actually had more issues when I lived in Fort Greene), and I'm pretty sure the only reason people like Matt and Sledge don't like the area is because they're racked with ignorance and fear. Don't come to Bed Stuy. We don't need your closed mindedness at our block parties, cafes, bakeries, and locally-owned restaurants. Goodbye.
Interesting that today is your first post stencil right when we are talking about Bed Stuy. IS "stencil" an alias for bjw2103? Nah, it can't be.
What'r you talking about, Socialist? Look further up this thread.
Socialist, I can guarantee you it ain't. But stencil is spot on - it's even more on display with this latest bit of paranoia. There's no way more than one poster can like the neighborhood! Must be the same guy! Hilarious. Especially coming from a guy who's changed his screen name more times than I care to remember.
This Matt guy seems to be quite a character. Anyhow, I have lived in Bedford Stuyvesant since February 2003 after living in Queens and the Bronx and I love Bed Stuy. I have never felt threatened and I have seen the neighborhood change for the better over the last 8 years. I am an avid traveler and when I tell people I live in Brooklyn, they usually think it is a war zone and I laugh. Every borough in New York City has crime as does practically every city in practically every country in the world. I entered 10031 in the map and Washington Heights seems to be quite bad. Anyhow, the longer people take to find out how wonderful my neighborhood is, the longer I will be able to afford to live here, so I hope people like Matt keep talking and steer clear of this side of town. Please stay up there in the much more desirable Washington Heights...lol.
Ahhh the joy of life in Bed Stuy !
sledge, that's a horrible story - pretty sick of you to inject that into this discussion as "evidence" that the neighborhood is what you say it is. But clofitas has it right - it's probably for the best if you just don't set foot there, even if you "known every corner of Bed Stuy and know what [you're] talking about." Convincing stuff.
"I am an avid traveler and when I tell people I live in Brooklyn, they usually think it is a war zone and I laugh."
We're laughing too.
Dropping a little royal we, Mattie? How noble.
I don't know what's sicker BJW. Posting links depicting reality in Bed Stuy or being in complete denial and try to convince 1st time buyers to move there to turn a buck and leave them deal with their misery!
The only positive articles about Bed Stuy i've seen were in the NY Times Real estate section. Do you ever wonder why or is it too difficult for you to figure it out?
sledge, where did I try to convince 1st time buyers to move there? And to "turn a buck and leave them deal with their misery"? Where are you reading this stuff? All I've done is counter some outlandish commentary, seemingly based on prejudice, denigrating an entire neighborhood. Nothing more, nothing less. A handful of other posters, who actually live there, have said as much as well. Are they trying to turn a buck too? Give me a break.
is it racism to illuminate that williamsburg is largely populated by trustafarian hipster children of the wealthy, living in the midst of what will be a developer's paradise, if all the unfinished unsold crap ever clears??
where the is currently an excellent supply of good weed, and will always be room for supply of more real estate to develop??
"Racism" = Politically incorrect truth.
Politically incorrect "truth" = lazy, misinformed stereotyping. Which, incidentally = racism.
Bottoms, wrong thread.
I have lived in Bed Stuy for 3 years now and as one of the gentrifying population would say this about those new to the neighborhood. First of all Bed Stuy is a complex neighborhood, and really three or four neighborhood combined into one so it can vary quite a lot from region to region and even block to block.
The most affluent part of the Stuy is the South below Gates Ave. between Classon Ave in the West and Stuyvesant Ave in the East and Fulton Street to the South. And that's not to say there aren't other blocks that are nice but this is just the highest concentration of good blocks and affluence. The area I'm describing has historically been home to more tight knit block associations that keep watch over their blocks raising generation after generation while protecting and maintaining the beauty of their blocks and community. The area know as Stuyvesant Height falls within this region as does the area know as Bedford Corners. Many of these block are middle class African Americans and are well taken care of to remarkably beautiful. Here you will find some of the most beautiful "brownstone" row houses that Bed Stuy is famous for. For instance just walk down Hancock St between Nostrand and Tompkins and you will know what I'm talking about. This would be the "Bedford Corners" area just north of the Nostrand Ave. A train stop at Nostrand and Fulton Street. You will find many other beautiful block off Nostrand in Macon St, Hancock St. and Halsey St. this area is currently in the process of trying to historically preserve the beauty of the surround blocks through NYC Landmarks Commission. (http://www.bedfordcornershistoricdistrict.org/home.html) You find a number of artists and hipster in this area because the subway access is excellent with the A train at Nostrand 15 mins to Tribeca and C train at Franklin Ave 25 mins to Tribeca. There is also a number of start up galleries opening up as well.
The Northern part of Bed Stuy north of Gates Ave. is a rougher area with less affluent community. If you look at a Satellite map of Bed Stuy via Google you will notice that most of the Housing Projects are north of Gates Avenue as well. The Western Edge along Classon Ave adjacent Clinton Hill is at the forefront of redevelopment, new cafes, bakeries and lounges open up here monthly even despite the recession. These new business continue to blossom throughout Bed Stuy concentrated in the Western edge and South of Gates Ave. Just look on yelp for the concentration of 4 to 5-star ratings and you will see where the new business investment is. (http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=&find_loc=Bedford Stuyvesant, Brooklyn, NY#bbox=-73.96459579467773,40.67198047947061,-73.93876075744629,40.68831821478072) I guess that's the amazing thing about Bed Stuy, while other areas like Red Hook and Bushwick have seen a bit of economic regression during the recession, Bed Stuy continues to see investment from new businesses and new neighbors.
The one thing that has always impressed me about Bed Stuy are the people and community. For a neighborhood that has seen its share of crime and poverty the people are remarkable kind and genuine. I call this neighborhood the "deep south in NYC" because people are so friendly here. Great sense of community, new people are welcomed as brothers and sisters. I have never received so many smiles and hellos, plus total random welcoming conversations with total strangers on the streets of NYC. The people here have really great hearts.
A local business owner who occasionally hired the victim for odd jobs said Mr. Lee probably died for one of those comments.
'' People do not realize words will get you killed around here, said the woman, who refused to give her name for fear of retribution if she spoke out against local violence.
She said she heard the shots that killed Mr. Lee, but she did not flinch.
' 'They shoot over here constantly, she said. It is so bad over here. I did not even move because I am so used to gunshots...
sledgehammer, your blatant prejudice is pretty disgusting at this point. We get it - you're on a crusade to prove that Bed-Stuy residents shoot at each other constantly, spill trash everywhere, have no education, and generally lack "civism."
It's all very interesting, except you seem averse to answering a couple basic questions, so I'll post them again:
"sledge, where did I try to convince 1st time buyers to move there? And to "turn a buck and leave them deal with their misery"? Where are you reading this stuff? All I've done is counter some outlandish commentary, seemingly based on prejudice, denigrating an entire neighborhood. Nothing more, nothing less. A handful of other posters, who actually live there, have said as much as well. Are they trying to turn a buck too?"
"What is it about Bed-Stuy that makes you think it's prone to litter, loud music, violence, and drugs? Please explain. Where does the lack of civism come from? And why is civism apparently so prevalent in other Brooklyn and Manhattan neighborhoods (you know, despite the litter, music, violence, and drugs that go on there)? And what is it about Bed-Stuy that makes you think property values are not properly accounting for these things?"
While you're at it, you may want to compare crime stats in Bed-Stuy with another area I'm guessing you think is rife with civism:
I have to report another unfortunate crime - sadly, sledgehammer was the victim of theft this time: