21 South End Avenue #728
1 bed•1 bath•562 ft²
Condo in Battery Park City
28 East 21st Street
1 bed•1 bath
Co-op in Flatiron
Luminaireаt 385 First Avenue
Condo in Gramercy Park
RENTER BEWARE! 135 Charles St is owned and managed by Bernic Enterprises. It took almost 20 phone calls to get to speak with Mr. Bernic. They charged me $1300.00 for "repainting" when I moved out, despite a verbal agreement not to do so and despite the fact that I had been there over three years and he was obligated by law to repaint any way. He also let painters into my apartment before I moved out, and they stole my clothing, and destroyed my furniture. He did not even apologize.
It's good that you're posting your complaints. Hopefully owners, brokers will be bullied into being a little staraighter.
Um, "good shape" isn't good enough to rent to a new tenant. I don't care how clean you are, new tenants demand a fresh coat of paint -- especially after five years.
§27-2013 of the NYC Administrative Code requires that Landlords of units with multiple dwelling repaint every three years. I was there more then 3. So he had to paint by law.
"Good shape" never entered into what the OP said. Landlord sounds like a scammer and is probsbly wearing your old tee shirts now.
benwellington, you do know that applies to only rent stabilized apts, right? otherwise the lease defines when and if a landlord shoudl paint and what moron landlord woudl impose a duty to paint an aptartment every three years on him/herself....get your facts straight before you start spouting the law.
CondoPresident, I do not see the portion of §27-2013 that says it is for Rent Stabilized Apartments only.
I would love more information on that and why you think that is the case; it would be very strange to me if the city had different painting guidelines for rent stabilized and non rent-stabilized apartment.
Still waiting on CondoPresident to help me "get the facts straight"...
Google: how often must NYC landlord repaint an apartment?
The search turns up, in about 1 minute of poking around, any number of sites that make pretty clear only rent controlled or stabilized apartments carry a 3-year repainting requirement for owners. I have no horse in this race but took the time to google it because I was curious based on the post. Curious why the original poster who has money involved in this couldn't do the same thing.
From, http://www.roberthill.com/questions.htmlwhatever that is:
"Question My friends told me the landlord has to paint the apartment I just rented.
Answer A New York City landlord is only responsible for painting a rent stabilized apartment once every three years. A New York City landlord is not responsible for painting a non-stabilized/coop/condo rental apartment."
From the NYC Rent Guidelines Board website, http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/hmc/hmc.html:
"NYC Rent Guidelines Board Apartment and Loft Guidelines apply to leases for rent stabilized apartments and lofts located in New York City." And from http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/hmc/sub2/art3.html which is their page about painting:
Sec. 27-2013 Painting of public parts and within dwellings: ... In occupied dwelling units in a multiple dwelling, the owner shall:
... Repaint or re-cover the walls and ceilings with wallpaper or other acceptable wall covering every three years, and more often when required by contract or other provisions of law."
And from a website for rent stabilized or controlled housing, http://www.tandn.org/Q_A_rent001.html:
"How often must an owner paint my apartment?
Once every three years; owners cannot demand deposits or collect additional fees for fulfilling this obligation."
Thanks for looking into this kylewest, and for your ability to Google things!
Any way, I still disagree with you on this.
While those two lines ARE on the website, they are also pertaining to different sections. One pertains to "Rent Guidelines" and the other is "Housing Resources".
Note that the line you quoted (and gave the wrong url too): "NYC Rent Guidelines Board Apartment and Loft Guidelines apply to leases for rent stabilized apartments and lofts located in New York City" is taken from the "Rent Guidelines" section of the housingnyc website. It says that the "RENT GUIDELINES" only apply to rent stabilized apartments. I agree that that subsection applies only to rent stabilized and lofts.
(correct URL: http://www.housingnyc.com/html/guidelines/guidelines.html) Luckily, the code I am quoting is not a "Rent Guideline", and is not in that section.
Sec 27-2013 is taken directly from the "Housing Resources" section of the site:
"The publications, texts and tools listed below are resources to help owners and tenants find answers to their questions, understand their rights and obligations, and the regulations that govern rental housing in New York City."
I respectfully disagree with Robert Hill's Q&A, given what the housing code says.
I know kylewest and CondoPresident have said what they think, and put others down in the process, but does anyone else have any compelling evidence here? It seems like a common enough problem. Would love to learn more or be convinced that my interpretation is wrong, given what I have found. Of course, I definitely may be mistaken, but from what I have read, I still think I am correct.
This is absurd. A call to 311 would likely provide you with the answers or resources you seek. Meanwhile, you are dragging this out for no reason and appear to have failed to take what actions you could. Like that call to 311. Or find a definitive answer from a legal services organization. The question is very straight forward. I googled around for a minute, which you are obviously capable of. Certainly, a few more minutes would lead you to an answer you are comfortable with versus those offered here. And if workman truly unlawfully entered and/or destroyed or stole property without a right to do so, then you also might have attempted to file a criminal complaint with the police for criminal trespass and criminal mischief and petit larceny. Filing a claim with an insurer would be another thing to do.
Your suggestion that I "note" certain things is nonsensical since I clearly already state them in my post. You are merely reiterating what I said as if it were news. And the links I provide are absolutely correct and take you to the general website and painting provisions. I have no idea why you are choosing to focus on nonsense invented issues in my response. In any event, the reason you cannot find legal authority for the proposition that a LL MUST repaint every three years in non-controlled/stabilized housing is that no such requirement seems to exists. It is also why your lease appears to be silent on the issue.
Based in part on your odd parsing and misreading of my response, I strongly suspect there is more to this than the one side presented. In my experience, when someone describes illogical, outrageous behavior by another party, the other party usually has something to add that. While a legitimate dispute may exist--in my experience once one hears both sides of most disputes it becomes clear that neither party is completely insane or malicious. People do tend to be rational actors for the most part. So here, I just wonder what the whole story is because I feel we're getting only selective facts.
While Googling around IS one way to approach it, and a pretty common one, I have found reading the law itself is more useful.
I have also found in the past that one or two things on the internet are not true! (see http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_everything_on_the_internet_true for more info on that!)
The law seemed pretty crystal clear to me, which is why I cited it to start with. But others, like you, seem to think the law is only applicable to Rent Stabilized Apartments.
So why not turn to the law to answer this question of what it applies to?
To find out what Chapter 27 Applies to, why not look under the "27-2003 - Applicability."
"The provisions of this chapter, except as otherwise provided, apply to all dwellings."
(http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS &QUERYDATA=$$ADC27-2003$$@TXADC027-2003 &LIST=LAW &BROWSER=BROWSER &TOKEN=17482602 &TARGET=VIEW)
Last I checked, and lucky for me, non-rent-stabilized apartments are dwellings too! Otherwise, I might not be considered a "city dweller" which would be sad...
So, unless 27-2013 states otherwise, it applies to all dwellings.
And it reads:
"In occupied dwelling units in a multiple dwelling, the owner shall:
(1) Paint or cover the walls and ceilings with wallpaper or other
acceptable wall covering; and
(2) Repaint or re-cover the walls and ceilings with wallpaper or other
acceptable wall covering every three years, and more often when required
by contract or other provisions of law."
Once again the relevant law I cited, 27-2013, is here:
http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS &QUERYDATA=$$ADC27-2013$$@TXADC027-2013 &LIST=LAW &BROWSER=BROWSER &TOKEN=17482602 &TARGET=VIEW
I guess I should have asked "Does anyone see how I am misinterpreting this law" as opposed to "Can anyone find a bunch of urls using Google of people saying different things and post them on this thread".
As I said before, I may be wrong on this, but I am looking for someone (even kylewest!) to point me to the section of the law which would support the claims made above that this is only or Rent Controlled Apartments! To me, it clearly states otherwise, but then again, I'm not a lawyer.
How come when a contractor or sub-contractor gets screwed by the owner they can put a lien on the property but when a tenant gets screwed he or she can't? That power should be given to tenants as well.
does "how come" also mean "why"
Boy TOP is DENSE. CALL 3-1-1. Pick up the phone. Dial these numbers: 3. Then 1. Then 1. Leave us alone.
CALLING 311 will let you speak to a city employee who will answer your question. How many times do we have to tell you this!!!
benwellington is a little biatch. Doesnt he know your landlord is allowed to walk in and steal your cloths? Welcome to NYC. Also, he can charge for anything he wants. Especially a paint job, how else is he supposed to cover up all the mold and water damage?
Thanks Jason! Glad you have added to the chorus of nice people giving useful advice. I agree with you that dialing 311 can be difficult for some. Glad you are able to share those dialing instructions for those here who need the help. I'm sure you are just passing on advice that someone gave you when you confused about how to dial 311! Always a good citizen!
Before I posted, I had already spoken with 311 and they referred me to the website with the law I stated above. But people like CondoPresident and kylewest, not only told me that what I learned from that was wrong, they also told me
"get your facts straight before you start spouting the law"
" I have no horse in this race but took the time to google it because I was curious based on the post. Curious why the original poster who has money involved in this couldn't do the same thing".
I figured if someone were to speak in such a condescending way like that, they MUST be more knowledgeable than both where 311 pointed me and myself. Otherwise, they would just look foolish. And since sometimes you get conflicting information from different sources, and both COndoPresident and kylewest seem to be VERY knowledgeable in tenant law, just like you are in dialing instructions, I was just asking why they think what they think, given the what the law says. Very excited to learn more about their take on it.
Unfortunately, 311 can't tell me what CondoPresident and kylewest are thinking, although that would be awesome. I called up and they said "Condo WHAT? Kyle who?". However, if you get confused, they, like you, can tell you how to dial 311! I asked them. Very helpful.
Any way, you seemed to have missed the question itself so I am reposting:
I am looking for someone to point me to the section of the law which would support the claims made above that this is only or Rent Controlled Apartments! To me, it clearly states otherwise, but then again, I'm not a lawyer.
boring, banal OP, gave up/give up. Cry eye, take LL to small claims if you think you have hand.
benwellington, you're looking for legal advice from strangers on the internet, and clearly, with your own words, you are not satisfied with this advice. Give up. Hire your own real estate attorney who is well-versed in the law, and follow his/her advice.
The fact is whether or not he should have painted does not matter if you did not ask him to actually paint while you were living there. If he took money to paint out of your security deposit and it was not because you say damaged the walls and did not repair, then you probably have a decent small claims case that you could file and attempt to get some money back. The question is how much is it worth to you in terms of time. As for letting painters in prior to moving out, did he actually notify you that he was having workers come? If he did then he is well within his right.
There is really nothing to "give up". I have already dealt with all of this stuff that you are saying I should do, and the matter is settled. That's why I never asked anyone on here what I should do about the situation. Note I was just warning future tenants of my experience, when someone told me I was wrong about the law.
My only question, which came later, was asking why people have been offering contradictory information to the info I received from some lawyers/law etc. I thought, due to how they spoke, they might have some information I had not heard. Not all lawyers agree on all things. But no luck on that...
Any way, thanks for the suggestions. I hope they are positive for future board readers well, even if many of you have been quite negative in the process! I do find most people are on here are pretty helpful in general.