3 Hanover Square #11D
1 bed•1 bath
Co-op in Financial District
333 Rector Place
2 beds•2 baths•1,299 ft²
Rental Unit in Battery Park City
Luminaireаt 385 First Avenue
Condo in Gramercy Park
This spot is going to be truly nice for families. The building and the finishes are modern yet not overstated. And the layouts of the apts look like they will be very accommodating. The location is great and will offer a good balance for those looking for easy access to THE PARK and public transportation, a plethora of quaint and delicious eateries, and, most importantly, a safe environment for the wife/kids.
Hyatt on the inside. Ramada on the outside.
As for the layouts, it's a matter of taste. The percentage of floorspace dedicated to bathrooms and closets seems unusually high. If that's your thing, ParkColumbus could be up your alley.
I visited the sales office today for a closer look, and to get the current status. Occupancy on the first renovated units is late 2008 (probably VERY late). Salesperson said upper floors should finish in early 2009. She naturally claimed that the units that have been released previously have sold like hotcakes.
ParkColumbus is a refurbished 80s rental, and it shows. The building has no curb appeal whatsoever. YL has chosen some nice interior finishes: The Poggenpohl kitchens are well-equipped; the bathrooms are handsome, plentiful, and big. The teak floor in the master shower might be a double-edged sword: it looks great, but after a few years you might start wishing it were plain old tile.
If the market had stayed hot, the nice interiors would probably have been enough to draw buyers at price points from $1100-$1700/sq.ft. The way things are, though, higher-end projects like the Harrison (for those who can wait) and Ariel (for those who can't), seem likely to crowd this puppy out of its target price range.
aboutready, you are right. I was using the term safe too broadly and the point that I was really looking to make was that the location is embracing and inviting for families. I am not sure how much you can argue that Columbus Avenue from around the high 70s to the low 90s is quite appealing from this perspective. Also, the children's playroom that will be next door to gym in the renovated courtyard looks like it will be convenient.
The floor plans don't seem challenged in the least. The spacious bedrooms and closets are a big plus. And as highlighted by West81st, the kitchen and master bathroom are gorgeous and I would like to add that they blow away the finishes at the likes of the Harrison which are pretty awful.
That said, the exterior could use some work and doesn't come close to the new buildings in the area. But this seems to be balanced a bit with the $1200 average price per square foot of Park Columbus being in range of the older, non-renovated apartments for sale in the neighborhood that worth looking at, which much lower than those newer buildings (Ariel - $1300s; Harrison - $1500s) and other conversions (Avonova - high $1300s; Merrion - $1400s) in the neighborhood.
JB: The $1100-1200 price point at ParkColumbus is a teaser price for some units on the second floor. The sales office quickly upsells customers to units that are priced in the same range as the Harrison and Ariel. Also, there's no tax abatement, so the monthly costs are very high from day one.
The Merrion is an intriguing comp, three blocks away in the same school catchment. The early sales seemed reasonably priced for 2007. Not sure why - some insiders, perhaps? The units released recently are priced sky-high, so we'll see what happens there. Merrion seems to target a different buyer than ParkColumbus, stressing pre-war charm over amenities, although the interior finishes in the renovated units appear similar, if slightly less upscale.
Avonova aspires to compete with the Harrison. I think might wind up competing with the Sabrina instead. In fact, the simlarities to the Sabrina are striking; that's a topic for another thread. The point is, every broker I've spoken to considers Avonova the most overpriced building on the UWS, and it's not selling. May things will pick up next month, after the condo is declared effective. For now, it's not very useful as a comp.
If a softening market leads to concessions and price cuts in the new buildings, I think the conversions are in for a rough ride. Although I'm not a big fan of Harrison or Ariel, when compared to them ParkColumbus and Avonova definitely look like "lipstick on pigs". Merrion is bit nicer, but has a lot of the same underlying limitations when compared to new construction. Sabrina will probably set the price floor for UWS conversions, and the others will eventually be priced off that floor, based on the premium buyers will pay for better amenities and a location 10-20 blocks further south.
That's just my two cents from the front lines of the UWS standoff.
A few perspectives on the Park Columbus from someone who's been looking for an UWS 2BR/2BA pied a terre. FLOOR PLANS: There are some good ones and some bad ones. Coming from the burbs, the larger bathrooms are appealing, and closets can always be eliminated. FINISHES: Kitchen is very slick, with top shelf appliances. Floor to ceiling stone in the bathrooms has an earthy feel. No ceiling lighting in main rooms is a bummer, but from what we've seen this is not so uncommon. CURB APPEAL: This is personal...for me, it's what's inside that counts, but I agree this bldg is drab. PRICING: A bit high at first blush, especially with no tax abatement. They need to sell units to file the plan, so they may be getting hungry. I like the fact that it's not huge like the Avanova.
West81stst - "lipstick on pigs" I can't wait to use your expression,if you don't mind. It was wonderful! Keep up the good work and info., it's fun and informative. It's really nice of you to share your knowledge of the area and market. Good luck in your search.
Anybody know the status of this project?
Financial problems. Better to leave it.
are all the listings from this building sold? or as paolo said is there a financial problem.. does anyone know the update?
Looks like the conversion is kaput.
wow thanks. didn't know this one was another one of Yair Levy's disasters.
Does anyone know what is going on with this property? Is it for sale? Is it being developed/converted?
Anyone seen these apartments? I believe they have been re-marketed but difficult to get pricing info.
The new Corcoran-Sunshine listings are now on Streeteasy:
The apartments have been renumbered to dissociate the new offering from the 2009 failure to launch. Some units may have been combined and/or altered as well.
West81st can you give me some color on the building and the area? How do you feel about pricing?
I also am curious about these apartments and the pricing. There are so few new / converted condo buildings within a block of the park (that I know of) for comparison purposes. I've been looking at other apartments (older condos, co-ops) in the area and the pricing seems reasonable relative to what I've seen. Does anyone familiar with the neighborhood have any thoughts?
Despite my last post, this thread is still showing up way down the list of threads. Hope this bumps it up!
We've just visited the sales office and really like the apartments. The location is perfect (for us), the finishes are comparable to some of the other luxury developments, the layouts are very efficient (the model home feels bigger than the 1790 sq ft listed, very spacious living room). For all that, the pricing is very reasonable. Is there some downside we are not aware of???
Oh, and one more thing, I agree the original building is ugly, but with the additions and the structural embellishments on the facade, it looks like the final product will be a handsome building.
carrotcake - is the model apartment ready? Last I heard, it would not be finished until February, but maybe they are showing it to prospective buyers in its unfinished state? I did a walk through in other units, but they hadn't put the walls up yet. I had a similar reaction to yours, was impressed with efficient layouts (2-3 bdrms) & nice finishes and of course, the location is great. Unfortunately, I won't be in a position to buy until next year & don't expect there will still be availability then. It sounds like you haven't signed a contract (or maybe you have), are you considering buying a unit there and if so, which one or which line? I understand this may be a sensitive thing so feel free to ignore my question. :)
We saw 2 model units, a 2BR and a 3BR. We were looking at the 3BRs. The 05 line really feels very spacious, all 05 units on the lower floors are already in contract :(. We are still in research mode...but this really seems like the best value for money from everything we've seen so far...
I see why the 05s went quickly (dual exposures & great light), but I remember thinking the other 3BRs were pretty nice, too. My recollection is that there were at least two other 3BR lines (I could be wrong) that had multiple exposures and the 15 line appealed to me because it faces the courtyard and will be QUIET. The 07 line has the 3rd full bath & split bedrooms, which will be nice for a family (no squabbling over sharing a bathroom). Good luck with your decision!
What do you guys think about 3 bed 3 bath investment in this unit? Also, any opinion on the fact that 10 units are still rent controlled and those people will continue to live there post renovation and pay rent to the sponsor? Not sure the demographic profile of these rent controlled units but anyone have a view?
Yoonsun21: If the long-term sponsor holding is really just ten units in a 72-unit building, it's probably not a big issue. Future buyers will have to jump through some extra hoops to get financing, but a 14% concentration isn't too bad. On the other hand, if the ten-unit figure is just a rough estimate provided by a salesperson, be sure to verify it.
By the way, I doubt there are any rent-controlled units in a building of that age. I didn't even know that any of the rent-stabilized tenants had stayed on through the bankruptcy, sale and expansion. Several press reports have described the building as "vacant" or "empty".
As for the apartments, they are what they are: where YL tried to sell luxury, Bazbaz is selling efficiency, which probably makes more sense for a 1980s building on Columbus. On the floorplans, the rooms look rather small, and the square footage seems quite inflated by allocations of common space. In a supply-starved market, I guess the units will sell; but whether they are a good investment is more a question of cash flow analysis and rental income than potential appreciation.
These look like nice, efficiently-designed units with smart finishes, but based on a >$1,400 average per square ft. listing price, I would be hard-pressed to buy one as an investment. The building will always be a 1980's rehab...neither a prestigious pre-war with old world charm nor a posh new Related-style project loaded with amenities. It's obviously in a great neighborhood but that block of Columbus is (currently) devoid of any upscale retail/bars/retaurants. Not a slam dunk, but not a high risk either.
Speaking of Columbus, what do people think of the avenue a few blocks up, around 93rd street to 95th street?
We were told same thing - 10 rent stabilized units, 4 are negotiating to buy from sponsor, at a discount, I assumed. I'm not overly about that as it is only a small percentage of entire building as West81 pointed out.
According to OM, square footage is not inflated by common space. I calculated the area of one of the apartments by adding up the stated widths of rooms and multiplying by stated length and came up with 10% shortfall of stated sf and this does not even include exterior walls. If there is any sf inflation, it is minimal.
What do you guys think about the fact that the building doesn't allow central air and just has PTEC units for heating/AC? I've never lived in an apartment PTEC units - are they ok?
A building like this does not have the pre-existing infrastructure (i.e. ductwork, etc.) to accommodate C/A and a developer is unlikely to sacrifice square footage for mechanicals rooms in each unit. That is one of the advantages of new construction. Though they will never rival the combination of C/A and hot water/steam heat, PTAC's are far more palatable than window A/C's. And newer units are quieter and better calibrated than the ones that were installed when these buildings were built. There is also something to be said for having the ability to control separate zones from an energy usage standpoint.
Some new construction like the Aldyn also use PTAC's.
are PTAC's a nightmare? Water issues? etc. Anyone buy a condo with PTACs and regret it?
They're usually self-contained, like a through-wall air conditioner but with heat too. They're good for hotels because the builder doesn't have to install heating and cooling risers for every stack of rooms.
In a condo, you save on initial cost and on CCs, but on the other hand you're paying directly for the electricity for cooling and heating. The offering plan will describe the system and estimated costs.
Anyone buying here?
seriously considering...selection is getting limited
Carrot, would you buy at the prices as advertised? What are other buyers in the market saying? What do you think about the 07 line? 907/1007/1107
Yoonsun21: Is the distance from the front door to the living room window in #907 really just 19'7"? Maybe I'm misinterpreting the room dimensions on the floor plan. If the apartment is only twenty feet wide, then the footprint is only about 1300 SF. Maybe that's OK, but it's a long way from 1300 to 1803, and the difference in price per SF is enormous.
I think the prices are attractive, don't know if sponsor will consider lower than offering prices. We've been looking for some time , not just UWS but UES and downtown as well. 101W meets 70-80% on our wish list (price being top of that list :) which ranks it above the other developments for us. 05 and 07 are our two fave layouts. the South/East views are fantastic from those high floors, there's a price jump from 9th to 10th, so 907 is a steal in my opinion.
the distance from the living room to the door for 907 is 26'. 19.7 is distance from windown to the end of the kitchen table.
I just wonder if the low ceiling and PTAC is a big issue at resale
You are right. 07 better than 05 then.That's why the living room will be very spacious for an apt that size. It will feel bigger than some of the 4 BR's living room. In the model unit, the 8 ft ceiling felt fine to me, higher is better of course. Same ceiling height other developments, like the Manhattan House and those are selling at much higher prices, diff location of course. I guess that's why the jump from 9th to 10th, if within your price range, 1007/1107 would be great options with the high ceiling. I think PTAC is quite acceptable, unlike a window AC. It's not that uncommon nor would it put the property in a disadvantageous light imo. At the Aldyn they use PTAC's and the 3BR we saw was closer to $4MM (river views but W facing, not my fave). Did not like that location at all.
I agree with carrotcake on the ceilings & PTAC, they are not big resale issues. You often see one or both in luxury new development and here, at least you know why the developer went this way (i.e., conversion, working with existing bones of building).
Carrotcake: I doubt the sponsor will be open to lowering prices, at least on attractive lines, as they have been increasing prices. Given your last post, are you leaning towards the 07 line then? Great layout & I love the bay windows!
What does everyone think about the one bedrooms? It seems like the 04 line is going very quickly...does anyone know what is so special about those?
04 is south facing, building on SW corner of 87 is low, it will be bright, and it looks like the distance from the door to the window will be close to 30". That's a huge open living/dining/kitchen space for a one BR.
Any idea if the units are selling at asking price?
The building is over 50% sold in a month with price increases on some lines, I doubt they are taking under ask just yet.
This building is nice. But you should check the listings with FindMyBuilding com regarding units in this building
Does anyone know if this building has started closings?
Yes, some people have received closing notices. Starting October 4th.
does anyone have an update on closings? Thanks.
This is a very nice building : bright, cozy, open views even on the lower levels , surprisingly quiet for units facing Columbus. Perfect UWS location. Glad to become the owner of the 2 beds on the 7 line. I was debating myself before my 10% down payment early last year because of the no windows bathrooms. But I love it now.
For those who have closed, are you happy with your apartment? What about the building?
I love it! Perfect location. My apt facing Columbus on the lower level is quiet, bright and cozy.
I love the building. I bought on the 5 line. Its so cozy, warm, , and such a great layout. I have 2 exposures, south and east. Its a perfect location, and their are great restaurants and retail popping up everywhere. I am so happy here. My unit is fabulous.
Is the sound insulation between units enough? Can you hear footstep noise from upstairs?