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Talk » Developments » Discussing 'The Edge'

The Edge

dh423 - I went with State Farm. Cost will vary depending on your mortgage amount. Your lender will let you know the amount of coverage they will require you to get.

seizure - walls are primed and painted white.

also what is the Bike Storage situation? Is there plenty of space for everyone? is the storage area nice? or all dusty like an unfinished basement?

Same with the Storage units if anyone can comment on these

I haven't been able to see the storage rooms in person but my bf took a picture and they are all located in the basement I believe and are not individual rooms. They are more like cages where you can see through, which I'm not too happy about.

Storage units are the cage variety and you provide a lock. But they are temperature controlled, finished and under video surveillance. When I chose mine (they recommend a storage unit and then you approve it in person), it seemed perfectly standard.

Also, when I asked to see the bike room I was told it wasn't open yet. I can't imagine it would be unfinished or dusty. Nothing in that basement area is unfinished.

how's the sound issue? can you hear neighbors walking around above you? Decent soundproofing?

Bike storage is in a semi finished room. There are hooks that you hang your bikes on. It is pretty clean and not that dusty, appropriate for its purpose. It has been open since at least 5/1.

Storage units are typical of many apartment buildings.... individual caged spaces in a large room.

Seizure - have to say that i don't hear a thing in my apartment from other apartments or the hallways. I know that my next door neighbor has moved in and I believe my upstairs neighbor too, and I've never heard a thing.

the bike room is open and there are lots of bikes in it. they did go ahead and add a few extra storage cages in there, so the space is limited (i am speaking specifically about the south building). there is a monthly $25 charge to store a bike there.

Is there really a monthly charge for bike storage? I was told the only additional charges would be for the spa services. Hopefully there are no other surprises.

How much does a storage unit cost?


Storage unit ask is $25K. It's a 5x5 cage that's 7 feet tall.

Seizure is right, but there is no way anyone in their right mind would pay 1k psf for a storage unit in the basement. The actual sales are usually rolled into the price of your residential unit, so the true costs are hidden. I've only seen 2 closings in ACRIS for separate storage units and they were far lower than 25k in the 5-6k range. Keep in mind that there are additional common charges and the sponsor's attorney may charge you additional since its a second "unit".

Can anyone please advise me on The Edge tax abatement program?
For instance, I bought a unit at The Edge and I'm selling it after 10 years and back to rental.
In that case, should I pay all property taxes I haven't paid for 10 years?
My friend who's also a newbie in real estate world insists that it's true.
I'm confused. If it's true then what's the benefit of having tax abatement?

Re: storage unit. $5-$6k is about right, depending on the size. There are common charges and taxes on the storage unit.

silvermoon: your friend is wrong. To make a long story short, you pay the abated taxes within your respective 25 yr tax abatement period end of story. If you bought your unit now, and sold 10 years later, you would have paid the abated tax throughout and your buyer would continue to pay the abated tax until such time the 25 yr abatement period runs out. The abatement applies to the property, not to the owner. I highly advise you to consult with a knowledgeable RE lawyer familiar with the city's 421 program and/or the Edge project and they can walk you through the entire process. IMHO, educating yourself via second-hand knowledge in order to save you a few bucks now will cost you plenty in the long run if you don't have all the facts when making your purchasing decision. Good luck!

salvydicopa: Thank you so much for responding.
I really appreciate it. As you recommended I'll work with a good RE lawyer to go through things.

Does anyone know a good carpenter who has experience of building a bookcase in Williamsburg area?

17 sales recorded on ACRIS in last two weeks. Apartments are closing rapidly now. Anyone know if sales rate continues to increase?

Sales are definitely moving as they are over the 51% mark. The entire project has also been Fannie Mae approved, so there are more financing options. Each time I walk by the sales office, it's busy.

Well I can tell you that people are constantly with sales agents looking at the building at all times of the day, so things are moving along well it seems

sales in NSP2 are now at over 65% sold. from 40% in feb to 65% now is a pretty good move. and the sales staff are still busy apparently with very little room for negotiation. i would think this puts the likelihood of NSP3 and edge tower 3 happening sooner than most were expecting, any thoughts on that? does anyone know how long the brooklyn flea lease is on that piece of the edge property?

I know Edge #3 is not even a thought for at least 7-8 years from now. Not sure what Toll is thinking. I believe the Brooklyn Flea is only for a year, but they'll almost certainly renew if it stays as successful as it's been so far.

Hi everyone--I have been following the comments about the insurance but I am still unclear. Do we really need 2M in aggregate liability? Checktest, can you please let me know who you used at Allstate? We can take this discussion off-line too. Many thanks in advance.

I was told the 1mm is required and the second 1mm, some sort of additional umbrella policy, isn't being enforced by the edge (yet) for people to close on the unit. Please correct me if I am wrong. I believe this is what my agent at Allstate had told me.

Hi dh423, thanks so much for the feedback. My attorney is checking with the Edge again on this but it is helpful to know that the 1M liability may be ok for now. Have you already closed with the policy and has it been confirmed by the Edge?

I have not closed yet on the policy as I am awaiting an update from my attorney on the title report. I think after we get that we will complete the policy and have it sent to the lender. The agent I am working with has dealt with many closings at the Edge so she seems to know what is required by the sponsor. Feel free to email me at if you would like her info.

People have closed with only $1m liability that's a fact. The sponsor's offering plan also states that residential owners are required to carry $2m aggregate liability also a fact. Therein lies the "enforcement" issue, i.e. you can close, but the board (currently controlled by the sponsor) can compel you to purchase additional insurance at any subsequent time. The practical concern if they decide to enforce is that if you are an Allstate customer, you will be forced to purchase a separate umbrella policy (because Allstate can write up to only $1m personal liability) or dump them and find a carrier like State Farm that can write up to $2m personal liability. Either way, it's a hassle, but not the end of the world. I went with State Farm so I could be done with all this once and for all but if you want to defer paying for the higher premium or accept liability in excess of $1m, then no harm in going with Allstate. Apples to apples coverage, they're priced the same, only their underwriting authority distinguishes the two.

thanks salvy for the clarification. I needed it!

Hi salvydicopa--thanks a lot, this really clarifies matters. Very, very helpful. I think we'll stick with Allstate for now with 1M in liability and just see if they ask for more liability later. I really appreciate the detailed response. And thanks again to dh423 for the helpful information provided.

I hate the thought of paying $175 a month for the parking garage. Has anyone had any problems parking on the street? Thanks!

np321: $175 is the garages' promo price as the normal rate is $250-$275. Look, all I can tell you is that a bunch owners on the owners message boards have complained about their cars being robbed and broken into when parking on the street so the answer to your question is a definitive YES. This stuff happens, after all this is still Brooklyn. If you think your car is going to be safe on the street, then IMHO the odds of you getting a rude awakening are high. At what price is security worth to you? Given the slew of break-ins and theft stories I've heard from victimized Edge/NSP owners, I gladly pay the $175/month for peace of mind. Granted your liability insurance should cover, but who likes to have their stuff stolen??? It's up to you.

There is another garage 2 buildings down that is a $25 cheaper, but I would not recommend parking on the street. When all the nearby buildings are fully occupied and there is constant foot traffic maybe a different story, but if you are stuck parking on N. 5th or a similar quiet block without residents you will be a target for petty thieves looking for car stereos and GPS units.

I've learned my lesson parking on the street in Manhattan, don't do it. Eventually someone will smash your window, or the car will get hit by someone else trying to squeeze into a spot. I had three separate incidents in the East Village so now I just park in the lot underneath the building so I don't have to worry.

Pay for the garage. I had my car parked on the street waiting for them to complete the garage. The day before the garage opened my driver side window was smashed and my gps and some loose change was stolen. I was parked on N7th literally right in front of the doorman and they still did it. Not worth the hassle, frustration, and time/money to not pay for the garage, which is still very reasonably priced.

Hi Salvy and others--has everyone been able to get the waiver of subrogation for the insurance policy? I've gotten a good rate from State Farm with 2M liability, but they are having troubles getting clearance to insert this waiver. Any advice whether this waiver has been enforced for closing would be very helpful.

I'm pretty sure every insurer I asked laughed at the audacity of that requested waiver. It was not an issue at closing.

Hi treetownal--thanks, that's good to know. I suppose if they insist, we can switch our insurance provider, but I figured I'd ask since State Farm indicated that they do not issue such waivers and I know that State Farm, Allstate, others have insured units for the building.

Does anyone know of an insurance company that will give a waiver of subrogation?

I echo Nibur's question--please let us know if any of you know of an insurance company that will include a waiver of subrogation in the policy. On my part, I have yet to find one.

I would definitely like to know more about this waiver as I have not come upon it until this forum.Is this something that is required or necessary? What is it for?

Hi dh423--Yes, the sponsor requires the waiver per the offering plan. We were reminded recently as well that we need it. Currently discussing it with our attorney as it has been impossible to get. The waiver basically stipulates that in the event that a third party was responsible for something that happened in related to an insurance claim, i.e. fire, the insurance company is not allowed to sue the third party and thus waives their right to subrogation. So here is one scenario: you have insurance company X, which has provided a policy with a waiver of subrogation. Your apartment catches fire, and you make a claim to replace your appliances, etc. in your apartment. Insurance company X pays you, but then they find out an Edge maintenance staff caused the fire. Under ordinary circumstances, and insurance company would be able to sue the maintenance staff to recover the funds they paid, but due to the waiver of subrogation, they are not allowed to.

So this waiver really only hurts the insurance company, which makes it natural that they would not want to issue one. It does, however, protect tenants, as they are included under the waiver and thus could not be sued either. Basically applies to all third parties.

thanks edgyedge

treetownal- when you said it wasn't an issue at closing do you mean you didn't need it to close or your insurer finally caved at closing and gave it?

No insurer would provided it - I asked several and they laughed said no way. It is way off market. The seller reviewed my insurance at closing and I closed without it. We otherwise satisfied the insurance requirements, including the umbrella policy.

To all, do you guys know where in the offering plan it indicates the requirements of the 1 million or even the 2 million total liability coverage?

only state farm will write 2 million policy all state only will write 1 million without auto policy
director of state form confirmed they will not give 'waiver of subrogation'

salvydicopa- regarding what you were saying about Allstate not being able to write a 2mm policy and state farm can. I was told by my attorney that the additional 1mm umbrella policy is separate from the H06. This means that they have to be two separate policies correct? If that is the case, it should be ok to stick with Allstate and get the original 1mm H06 policy and then a separate 1mm umbrella policy. Please clarify if I am mistaken.

You are correct.

All I know is that umbrella coverage does not come cheap so you may get some sticker shock should you ever have to pickup the extra $1m.

thanks salvy

would anyone mind letting me know how much it is (estimate) currently for the total 2 mm policy at statefarm?

Hi dh243--It depends on how much building insurance you need to get, as that affects the overall premium. Lenders generally ask for 20% of the appraised value. As others have already said, getting 2M liability for your policy as opposed to 1M liability and 1M umbrella is much cheaper by at least a few hundred dollars a year.

I'm confused. My attorney said the 1m umbrella is separate from the 1m H06. So how is it you guys are getting a policy that is 2m liability at statefarm?

Also, does anyone have a statefarm contact familiar with the Edge units? Thanks

dh423: I think the price for 2m of liability was around 100/year as part of a policy that provided coverage for loss of property.

did you mean 1000?

Hi dh423--Nibur probably does mean 100. He is giving you the estimate for the liability portion of the premium. For 2M I also found quotes of 75-100. But then you add the other coverage on top of that. In comparison, you are probably finding quotes of $600 at least for the 1M umbrella coverage alone.

edgyedge or anyone else using statefarm, could i get your agent's info so I can get a quote as well? Thanks so much

Sure, I'll send it to you offline at the address you previously gave me. I can also send you a contact at Chubb.

dh423: Let me try to help. Edgyedge is right and so is your attorney. Personal and Umbrella are two separate policies. Umbrella sits on top of your personal liability so what Allstate is trying to tell you (which is perfectly in conformance with the offering plan) is that they can get you to your $2m liability requirement IN AGGREGATE by selling you a $1m personal liability policy and a separate $1m umbrella policy which IN AGGREGATE gets you to your $2m liability coverage as required by the offering plan. State Farm has underwriting authority to write up to $2m personal liability coverage so it would be unnecessary for you to purchase a separate umbrella policy, which means you need only one policy which makes things more efficient for you and the insurer. Make a long story short, the offering plan expects you to carry $2m liability coverage, they don't care how you get there.

Like Edgyedge said, your premium will vary based on the 20% of your purchase price factor so don't go by what other people paid. Get quotes from both Allstate and State Farm and make them compete for your business, because if you get competing quotes based on true apples to apples coverage to ascertain the true price differential between Allstate (with umbrella to get $2m aggregate) and State Farm ($2m aggregate) may not be material, so nothing to lose by shopping around.

Here is the State Farm agent that I used and they are very experienced with the Edge and NSP. They priced my premium on the 20% of my purchase price, $20k personal property, and carrying $2m on personal liability. Hope this helps!

MJ Kim
State Farm Agent
2102 Jericho Turnpike
Commack, NY 11725-3008
Available 24hrs/7days week
Commack Office hrs M-F 9-5PM
Phone: 631-543-0400
Fax: 631-543-0433

We closed back in October and were required to have the subrogation clause. Also keep in mind a 1MM liability on the base policy and the 1MM Umbrella policy are two different things and not the same as a 2MM liability on a base policy. The reason they want this is for coverage for your finances if something happens away from the condo, for example you own or rent a car and get into an accident and are sued. Your auto policy covers a portion but assuming in our litigious society you are sued for way more than your auto policy then your umbrella policy kicks in. This would not happen if you just had more liability on the base policy as they would say your home owners policy has nothing to do with a car accident. They want this and to be honest even a 1MM umbrella is probably not enough because they want you to be able to still pay your mortgage and common fees if you are sued from a situation like that.

That is also why they want the subrogation clause all of which they asked for and checked at closing, at least back in October. We used Chubb which was the cheapest and best value coverage we could find and only $119 for the year for the extra umbrella policy. The premium was slightly more the State Farm but they pay cash on personal items like jewelry rather than making you go through their vendors and they even have a clause giving you ransom money and private security/investigators if someone gets kidnapped, HOW COOL IS THAT! The rep info is:
Jay M. Persi
Senior Sales Executive
The Coughlin Group
52 West 22nd Street
Ground Floor
New York, NY 10010
212.593.0200 Office
917.699.9093 Mobile
914.834.0853 Facsimile

He was very helpful.

Also something I recently found while car shopping and auto insurance shopping is if you own a home or condo and have umbrella coverage you need to select $300k/$300k on the auto liability not the normal $100k/$300k most people take. That is because the umbrella policy won't kick in until a penny over $300k. If you choose the lower you will have a gap and could be on the hook for the $200k difference.

Hope this helps.

Hi mswildma--Thanks a lot for the detailed description of the factors you considered in picking your insurance policy. You've made a great case for the umbrella policy, so maybe I'll get one after all, we'll see. Funny point about the ransom money. At this point I know that Chubb has an acceptable subrogation clause, but just as you found, the State Farm premium came in a bit lower. If State Farm is deemed acceptable by the powers that be as well, then I may go for them, but I have heard many good things about Chubb, so it will be a tight call. In any case, thanks for the additional information, very helpful.

EdgyEdge....My pleasure!

the minimum deductible for an owner occupied state farm policy is high at $1000 and $500 on an investor owned unit however they will not offer the subrogation clause

Looks like there is still conflict between a 2m base policy and 1mm base and 1mm umbrella.

mswildma- so are you saying I have to get two separate policies instead of the 2mm policy salvydicopa has indicated?

Hi All,

I am looking for a good real estate attorney to help me w/closing at The Edge. I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations. Thanks.

dh423, read section 6.1(g) of the Bylaws, which requires owners to have $1 mm in personal liability and $1 million in umbrella liability coverage.

Since many insurers will not provide $1 umbrella liability coverage unless you have other coverage with the insurance company, it is difficult to obtain that kind of coverage. Some owners have developed a work-around by purchasing $2 million in personal liability coverage. I am not sure this work-around complies with the language of section 6.1(g), but the Sponsor has not been challenging it at closing.

I also went with State Farm and used an agent in the neighborhood, Mark Butler on Grand Street. I don’t have the number handy, but I am sure you can Google him.

I obtained quotes from almost of the major insurers, and State Farm and All State were the best priced. I ultimately went with State Farm because they could provide $2 mm in personal liability coverage.

I count over 35 closings on ACRIS for May alone, wow!

joseesq- thanks for the clarification. Were you able to close without the waiver of subrogation as I know that State Farm does not provide it? Was it an issue on closing day?

Jim Khani Esq 212-371-0330. I used him and he did a great job.

From what I'm being told you can ONLY get the umbrella policy IF you also have an auto insurance policy.So if you don't own a car you can NOT get the umbrella policy correct? And if you can not get the umbrella policy getting a 2million personal liability policy is suppose to cover what the sponsor is asking? It just doesn't make sense if the sponsor is asking for one thing in their plan, but yet not everyone can get it. It should specify an alternative right? I just don't want to go ahead with a 2 million personal liability policy if 1) I don't need 2 million personal and 2) If that will suffice for closing day 100% without issues.

i think folks are over thinking the insurance. i asked the agent at the edge and metlife (who i used for my mortgage) and both recommended allstate. the sponsors attorney had no issue with whatever coverage it is they gave me.

The thing is that state farm's quote for 2million personal is A LOT cheaper than Allstate's which was another concern of mine. It's a few hundred dollar difference which was shocking,

Acer: I closed with Randy Chang Esq. He's closed a ton of Edge/NSP units, has a great relationship with the sponsor and is really knowledgeable about the 421 abatement and closing requirements, and charges a great rate for his services. I highly recommend him.

Randy Chang, Esq.
7 Chatham Square, Suite 302
New York, New York 10038
Tel: 212-766-4336
Fax: 212-267-3028

dh432 - I closed with a $2m State Farm policy sans waiver of sub no problem/no questions asked by the sponsor/bank's closing attorneys.

Comment removed.

salvy- so regardless of being able to get an umbrella policy the sponsor is requiring 2million for the policy correct?

@dh423 That is correct you end up with two separate policies. A Homeowner's Policy and an Umbrella Policy.

Also correct about the auto insurance requirement for an umbrella policy. I did forget about that in my first posting on the subject and it took me awhile to get my head around it too. Most insurance companies will write you what is called a Non-Owned Auto Policy. This is a liability only policy that covers you when driving any car rather than the car owner's uninsured motorist coverage in their policy. It also allows you to say no when renting a car on the car rental liability insurance. I admit it's a crazy thought and something I am sure the writer's of the Offering Plan didn't think about but it is all doable. That is where Chubb beat out State Farm. With State Farm, and I dealt with Mark Butler on quotes I needed 3 polices, the Homeowners, the Umbrella and the Non-Owned Auto to be able to get the umbrella. Chubb builds all the features of the Non-Own policy as part of the base policy automatically, just like the ransom feature so they were able to simply write the Umbrella policy with nothing else needed. Plus they have no problem putting the clause on the policy.

But let me say again the 2MM in the base policy is not the same and if you are thinking of not bothering to get the umbrella policy I wouldn't bother getting the extra 1MM on the base policy, unless you want it. If the Sponsor ever decides to check and verify policies, perhaps on 1yr cycles for unit owners I can't imagine they will think it is the same and would just say you do not have the minimum requirements, meaning you wasted the extra money on the premium.

Hi everyone--it's clear that the way they have written the insurance requirements in the offering plan have left some flexibility with regards to what the owners can get. I have been in touch with about 16 agents, my attorney, my lender, the Edge's attorney, and Clinton Management and they have all told me different things. What I went for in the end was 2M liability with Chubb that has a policy that contains waiver related language that has been approved by the management company. I would just try to get something in writing by either the Edge legal department or the management company confirming that your policy is acceptable to them before you close--I just like to be safe. It's clear though that they are accepting different variations in terms of insurance policies.

Buyer2312--35 closings--very impressive. You're sure those were just the deeds? Either way, good numbers. I noticed there were some price drops and increases recently, so maybe that is also creating another flurry of activity.

Ditto with mswildma. I wouldn't spend any more time wrangling over $2m vs 1m base + 1m umbrella. Yes the sponsor (on paper) is requiring $2m but from what I've heard not enforcing it. So if cost is a priority, just go with the $1m with Allstate or State Farm and deal with getting the additional $1 coverage later if the board ever comes knocking on your door. I got my policy in less than 24 hrs from my initial call so this should be easy breezy once you know what you want.

mswildma- so you're saying those people who got the 2million personal liability will probably be eventually asked by the sponsor to get the additional umbrella policy as it DOES NOT fulfill the sponsor's needs in the offering plan? What about those who went with Allstate and State farm that does not provide the waiver of subrogation? How did they close without it? And if the sponsor eventually requires it does that mean all those that have closed without it MUST switch to an insurance company that will provide it?

It's getting a bit frustrating as my attorney is not assisting with clarifying for me by going to the sponsor's legal team and asking what IS suffice regarding the policy. I had to do so myself.

All I need/want to know is what I will need to close. Can I close with a 1million personal liability policy without the umbrella and deal with getting the 1 million umbrella later when it is enforced, saving me a few months of extra premium? Or do I need to have a total of 2million to close? I know people have said they have closed with JUST personal liability, without the waiver and without umbrella. Is it worth it to not close with these items now, if the sponsor accepts it, so that I can save from what looks like a few hundred dollars a yr?

thanks for the input

@dh423 Let me put it this way. I have no idea what the future will hold on the policies and potential reviews. Our closing way back in October when they were still getting their feet wet last about 6hrs, most of which my wife, our attorney and I just sat there while the sponsors rep and attorney, title agent, and bank attorney went around in circles over things. In the end the thing they were concerned the most with was getting a check before they released the apartment so for the insurance they just asked if we have a paid receipt and binder letter, I doubt they looked too closely at anything aside from the giant red paid stamp on the receipt. Heck you could probably get away with a tiny policy as far as the building goes but the bank too wants a policy to cover their losses and they have their own clauses to add to the policy. What I can't guarantee is what will happen and if they make you get the other policy because you didn't have the umbrella the first time or get a new carrier because you didn't have the clause the first time. This may never happen or could happen in 5yrs. Right now they want to close units for the first time and get off the hook for their construction loans.

In our case the price wasn't too much more to go with Chubb and the agent was nice and since we closed early enough this forum wasn't filled with this info to change my thinking so I wanted all my ducks in a row and just got what I felt was the letter of the Offering Plan. If I could go back, I suppose I still would go with the Chubb policy to get the clause because that seems to be a bigger bit in the a$$ to change carriers to get it but maybe would have skipped the umbrella. But as I wrote earlier the umbrella policy was only $119 so it too wasn't alot of money and no headache is worth it to me.

The quote i'm getting from Chubb is around 900ish with everything and the state farm 2million personal liability quote without umbrella or the waiver is 500ish. As you can see my dilemma is in deciding which to go with. A 400dollar or so difference is quite a lot of money.

Thanks everyone for the information. Definitely super helpful!

edgyedge - 35 is correct, all separate apartments. Most closings I've seen so far, the building is over 60% sold at this point and moving quickly

dh423, I would echo mswildma. I closed this year. At closing, the Sponsor's law firm just asked for a receipt and insurance binder letter. The Sponsor’s law firm main concern was that I had a bank check and the bank attorney had wired the funds.

I understand your frustration as I went through the same thing. My attorney asked the Sponsor’s attorney what were the insurance requirements and we were referred back to the Bylaws. When I asked the management company they just referred me to several insurance agents, who all had different takes on what was required to close at the Edge. So no one, including my attorney, could give any guidance.

The Bylaws clearly say one thing, but it is nearly impossible to comply as Umbrella liability is generally not offered as a standalone product. So what I and others have done is to make a good faith effort to comply by getting $2 million in personal liability coverage. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Bylaws were changed in the future on this issue.

joseesq- were you able to close without the waiver on your closing day? I'm looking to just get the 2 million from state farm (as it is the cheapest thus far)if it seems as if many of you have closed without umbrella and without the waiver.

thanks again everyone for the help

I also closed with State Farm w/o the waiver. Everything went smoothly.

cranberry- did you get 1million or 2 million?

2M. It didn't cost much more.

Hi everyone, sorry for getting off topic but we were wondering if anyone has any feed back on shade installation. We've purchase them from The Shade Store and had our measurements done by M&N, their preferred company. The quote we got for the installation is quiet expansive as they charge by the foot instead of by the window regardless of how long it takes. If anyone here has used the Shade Store I was just wondering if you also used M&N for the installation and if you would recommend them and feel that it's worth the extra money... Otherwise if you have used someone else for the installation that you would recommend I would appreciate if you could give me the info.

dh423: per my attorney, you DO NOT need umbrella insurance per se, just $2M aggregate. That's why I got a $2m base policy with State Farm rather than get $1m base $1m umbrella.

I'm a little surprised your attorney is not fully holding your hand on this issue, I mean, that's his/her job! The offering plan is quite dense and very confusing, not for the faint of heart, and my attorney held my hand and fully educated me as to what the relevant requirements are, i.e. good faith. I would be very annoyed if my attorney glossed this over.

It seems like you want to do the right thing and I commend you for being so proactive. However, getting $1m vs $2m is not going to sabotage your closing. If closing is all you care about, just get the $1m base policy with either Allstate or State Farm and deal with getting the additional $1m (base or umbrella) later. It's not like anyone's going to be throwing you out on the street because of this! However, if you want long-term peace of mind, get the $2m base with State Farm. Per my attorney, umbrella is a totally separate animal, it's a great "catch-all" for any contingency, but unheard of as a requirement for typical new developments. Umbrellas are common in the commercial/high net worth individual realm but not from a residential perspective. Like wilma said, umbrellas are usually bundled with your auto policy, and if you are not keeping a car here, then umbrellas don't make much sense. However, from the sponsor's perspective, they just want to make sure that residents are fully "gapped up" (no gaps in their coverage) because stuff happens and when it doubt people sue first ask questions later. My attorney thinks the sponsor is going a little overboard from an umbrella perspective and assured me that $2m HO liability coverage is good and plenty to be in full accordance with the offering plan.

FF2010: I don't know anything about the Shade Store, but I used an independent contractor recommended by my interior designer and he did a fantastic job. Give him a call to talk about your needs and budget and best of luck to you!

Mr. Mel Harris
Harris Decorators
256 Pearsall Place
Lawrence NY 11559
917 359 8355 Tel
516 371 2243 Fax

salvy- agreed. I definitely am a bit peeved at my attorney. I think I will be getting the same as you, a $2 million personal liability policy with State Farm. Thanks for the info!

Idk if my insurance had a waiver, but I doubt it as I didn't request any waivers.

we used Curtain Call and were extremely happy. They have done a number of units in the building at this point

Curtain Call, Inc.
(Tel) 646.505.0730

Hi Salvy--I've been in the same situation as dh423, as my attorney has also not been helpful with regards to several matters and did not even go through the offering plan with me. In fact, he even basically declined to help me with insurance related matters. Needless to say, I'm not using him again. I've made note of your attorney and the one recommended by checktest for future reference.

dh423--As Salvy said, just go with State Farm if you want and you can always change your policy later. I chose Chubb because of the type of coverage provided and the reputation. Did you end up contacting the agent I recommended?

Joseeq--your situation is exactly what I went through. I contacted all relevant parties and no one could give a straight answer. As you said, the important thing is to make a good faith effort to comply with the offering plan and take it from there. And you're right, it's very likely the by-laws could be changed later once the home-owners board comes into effect.

Woah, going through an offering plan with your attorney is par for the course so I'm completely flabbergasted as to how your lawyer didn't think it was his job to go over the OP with you. Totally unacceptable and you should have dropped him on the spot. If you haven't closed yet, it's not too late to switch lawyers you know. Sure you may lose your deposit (unless you paid upfront) but in the grand scheme of things, it's better to take a sack and punt than throw an ill-advised interception that costs you the whole game you know what I mean?

My attorney was the hand-holding type which is exactly what I was looking for because I didn't know diddly squat about buying a new development with a 421 abatement when I first started my journey. My guy went the extra mile and still responds to my one-off questions to this day (I try my best not to push it). One thing I have learned from all this is that your RE lawyer is your most valuable service provider in a RE transaction and alls I can say is that my guy was worth every penny.

I encourage everyone to shop around when it comes time to selecting a RE lawyer, I'm firmly convinced a good one is worth their weight in gold so good references are an absolute must!

I cannot agree with Salvy more. We used a very detailed oriented and careful attorney and it helped us understand the pro's and con's of what we were doing as well as make the closing flow smoothly. Find a good RE lawyer!

sidenote: for those who have moved in I read somewhere people usually change their locks after they get the keys. have you guys done the same? or since it is a new unit you have not?

@dh423 If you change the locks after you move in you will still have to give a set to the front desk, it is a requirement of the By-Laws so since they use good locks and clearly no one else has a copy since there is no previous tenant it is probably a waste of money to change the locks.

gotcha. thanks mswildma!

I went to a locksmith to make a 3rd personal set of keys (you are issued two on move-in day) for my parents in case of emergencies and was told by the locksmith that the keys are registered so they can't be copied.


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