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I'm completely confused about the so-called "pet law" in which in co-ops with an explicit no-dog policy, if an tenant owns a dog "openly and notoriously" for 3 months they are immune from doggy-based eviction.
Does the "pet law" cover owners as well? Or can a Board decide to enforce a no-dog policy with respect to owners/shareholders at any time - if it's on the books?
Here is an excellent article that should help:
If you find a more informative source online, please let me know... so far, that is the best. I noticed he added a consultation service now... hahaha, looks like there's quite an interest in his web page. IMHO, he deserves it.
Petlaw, you sound like a charming person & the PERFECT tenant/neighbor. Why would you choose to create such a contentious situation with your fellow co-op investors? You must have known about the 'no pets' policy when you purchased. Oy! Grow up!!
I like dogs, but I find it truly remarkable that NY has the worst dog owners in the world. The basic attitude is that nobody in the adjoining area (elevator, building, next apartment, park) has any right not to think the dog's (and owner's) misbehavior is anything but adorable. The problem is especially bad near Riverside Park and in the West Village -- two neighborhoods that otherwise have very little in common; go figure.
Alan..Why the suprise? It is no different in that all of these "Yummy Mummys" think their screaming children and babies with stinky diapers that havent been changed are just the cutest. No matter that the new enormo stroller requires that everyone else exit the elevator
Karen, I agree with you there. I don't like children, but I like nephews and nieces. Nephews and nieces are little angels, and don't do any of those things. I like nephews, nieces and dogs, but not children, dog owners, or yummy mummys.
Yeah, I have to agree with Alan. We were stuck next to a nasty couple who had a nasty bulldog who barked all the time. Thankfully, all three of the nasties moved off the floor, eventually. The people were clueless that their dog could possibly disturb other people.
There was that story I recounted on another thread where we were looking at an apartment and the agent was going on about the no pets policy. In the background, a dog barked continuously. Finally, I brought up the subject of the barking dog and was told that the dog had been grandfathered in under the new policy. We didn't buy that apartment.
In case everybody thinks I hated dogs, I like dogs, if they're well-behaved. I owned an 80 pound lab-shepherd mix when I lived in a suburban house. I went through four 10-week training sessions with that dog when he was a puppy. It was a lot of work but the dog's behavior improved immensely as a result of the training.
At the same time I was taking this dog to obedience class, I talked to some guy at a party who had a 100 pound Rottweiler. When I asked the guy how the obedience training had gone, the truth came out that he had never done anything because he was busy and his wife had had a baby. So, the guy had a huge aggressive dog that they would lock in a room. The dog would throw himself at the door in order to try to get out. Truly frightening.
It is still a little beyond me why so many New Yorkers want to cram dogs in their small apartments.
The link posted is for tenants - I'm wondering about co-op owners (aka shareholders) - are they covered?
Found a better link
funny that this is being posted on day two of the dog show.
If you live in a co-op building that prohibits dogs, chances are HIGH (whether you're an owner or a renter) that you have signed a piece of paper agreeing to abide by the house rules. The co-op, depending on the building, can have a number of responses to violations; usually they start with fines.
Secondly, you're violating your proprietary lease, so the board can give you a "dog goes or you go" ultimatum.
While it's true that open and notorious harboring of a pet is something of a defense, I wouldn't rely on it.
I doubt if most Manhattanites could get their dogs into the dog show. I was on a bus back from New Jersey last year during the dog show. This woman got on the bus with a beautiful white Siberian Husky and talked the driver into letting her ride with the dog. The dog was incredibly well behaved. The woman stuck the dog under the seat and the only thing the dog did during the whole trip was emit an very high pitched noise, which most people probably did not hear but I noticed. The dog did not bark, move, or cause any problems whatsoever.
nice petlaw... that was one of the sites i also encountered when i was going through some questions about pets... but the author of the other site provides a point of view from a lawyer who actually went through the ordeal of going to court and all the details involved, as opposed to a listing of a,b,c's from a committee.
in any event, good luck!!
if you get a letter from a doctor saying that it is good for your mental health to have the pet -- the building cannot force you to remove the pet -- regardless of the coop policy. Medical exclusion. Too bad for them
Then your neighbor can get a letter from a doctor saying that it's bad for his mental health to have a dog owner in the building, and the coop will have to accomodate his handicap by evicting you.
A reporter for CNN lives in a co-op downtown and she and other tenants are suing to have an owner give up their dog.
I heard about that, julia. Apparently the neighbors are upset because the dog is unkempt, or smelly or both.
I think they are allowed to evict the owner, but not the dog. Go figure.
"if you get a letter from a doctor saying that it is good for your mental health to have the pet -- the building cannot force you to remove the pet -- regardless of the coop policy. Medical exclusion. Too bad for them"
It works the same way for medical marijuana. You (and your 100 pound mental-health dog) can blow trees all day long, and as long as you have a doctors note that says it's for chronic pain or depression the co-op board can't do anything about it. I recommend noting this intention in your co-op board interview...
"I heard about that, julia. Apparently the neighbors are upset because the dog is unkempt, or smelly or both."
With so many doggie salons in town, there is no excuse for a pooch to get all smelly and unkempt. It's only money. Just forego your own food and medicines and keep the pooch smelling good.
>>if you get a letter from a doctor saying that it is good for your mental health to have the pet -- the building cannot force you to remove the pet -- regardless of the coop policy.<<
You'll need a lot more than a note from your doc. You'll have to be able to prove a condition that requires you to keep a service pet, especially when you find yourself in the middle of a lawsuit.
I'm the secretary of a well established co-op board, for a large 280 unit building. The answer to your question is it depends on your proprietary lease, but generally yes. We have invoked our proprietary lease to legally force an owner to remove a dog. We are a VERY pet friendly building as well, and this dog had been in the budiling for quite some time. If the dog is unruly, consistantly barking, causing quality of life issues for other shareholders or has attacked, regardless of the pet policy, the dog has to be removed from the building, it's a huge legal liability should something occur. As a dog owner, I don't think there is ever a bad dog but rather bad owners.
only if the dog gets fat and ugly :)... .that's also for the shareholder in my co-op... Only beautiful people need apply :)
gramercygrl...love the gramercy area..are prices coming down in the area that you've heard of.
It is nice to know that there is some recourse when a dog is a continual nuisance to the other people who live in the building. I am not necessarily anti-dog, I just like to see the rights of the other shareholders balanced against those of the shareholders who have dogs, especially when some of the dogs cause trouble.
Well said, Gramercygrl. You are 100% correct that if a pet becomes a nuisance to other shareholders it can legally be removed. Personally, I prefer a building that has a no-pets rule, though I currently both own and rent in pet-friendly buildings. Next time I buy, though, I plan to go Fido-free. Who needs the potential aggravation?
if the dog is a proven problem (bites, etc) that is different than just having neighbors say they do't want a dog in the apartment next to them. Alanhart - as usual -- your arguments are glib and weak.
Let me start by saying that I am an animal lover (dogs esp.).
New York has some of the worst dog owners in the universe.
If your building/Coop has a no dog rule...byby Fido. I hope you can place your dog in a loving home.
Now for the rest of you who think that NYC is one giant toilet for your pup, you are wrong.
CURB YOUR DOG! That means dodo and pepe happen in the street! Not on the trees, not on the doors and fronts of stores and residences. That adorable cute piss machine that sprays our sidewalks where are children play need to be curbed. I could rant like this for hours!
If your building/Coop has a no dog rule...byby Fido.
Not true...if you bought when the building allow dogs you are grand-fathered.
Get a lawyer to write a letter to the Board through the managing agent and...
woof woof fido
I sold my apartment last summer when my co-op "called me out" for rescuing a dog that was bigger than the building policy. No biggie...well within their rights. I would however, double check what the policy really is. My co-op had different rules posted all over the place...propriety lease didn't match the posted house rules, which differed from what they put in writing to me regarding the dog. And I agree, bad dog "humans" are awful...and ruin it for the rest of us. Having a dog in the city is a big commitment and expense. Do you homework BEFORE you bring home your bundle of joy. Oh yeah...same applies to your kids.