Holiday Tipping logistics

We do double for the super, then the same for everybody else.

I have no idea who our super is, have never interacted with him and don't even know his name, but I'm sure he gets paid much more than any of the doormen or handymen. He will therefor get no tip from me.

Robot, I hear you, but the supers are gonna wise up, and run around the building breaking shit, so they can fix it, with great alacrity, and charm, and helpfulness, starting say..October.

The staff in my building are very good and very friendly. They've done me a number of favors during the months that I have lived here; I have no intention of stiffing anyone. I have about a $600 budget to work with for tipping, but it has to be split between 15 people. I want to make sure it's as equitable as possible, while rewarding the people who really stand out. So does the super get $100, the doormen + concierge $75 each, and then the rest divided equally among the handymen and the porters? Or would that arrangement make some people angry because I was being unconsciously insensitive to rank?

evnyc, there was a discussion a few weeks ago where it was suggested that building porters should get the same tip as doormen/concierge. If you search tipping, you'll probably find the discussion and you can read the different viewpoints on this issue to help you determine what is comfortable for you. Your tipping suggestions of $100 for the super, $75 for doormen and down the line are within normal holiday tipping. Many people can't afford to tip building staff more than a total of $600 so I'm sure that you'll be in line with the tips from other tenants in your building.

evnyc, I would search "holiday tipping" in the discussions.

I'd say that you already have your answer, " while rewarding the people who really stand out." I think I'd start by deciding what I want to give the standouts & then go from there but also keep in mind that you may see the smiling, helpful doorman on a regular basis while rarely seeing the hardworking porter who tends to hauling the trash & removing the snow, even while being rained upon.

Yes, I've seen the discussions, thanks Lobster. But if I take the $100/$75 approach, it doesn't leave much left for the porters. I know they all work very hard, so I'm mostly worried about screwing up the internal rankings, the significance of which are mostly lost on me. It seems to be fairly subjective, so I'll probably just keep fiddling with the numbers until something looks fair on paper.

Thanks all for suggestions.

evnyc, you're correct with your numbers. I always tipped the super the most, then the doorman/concierge, the handymen, the elevator operator and the porters in descending amounts. After reading some of the holiday tipping discussions, I've been rethinking my tipping numbets and have to make a decision soon. Like yourself, I can't spend $1000 to tip the building staff of approximately 15. Maybe NWT's suggestion is the right choice for me.

"Superintendent - gets the most, right?"

Yes. $1000 for him.

Handymen -- $500 each.

Concierge -- $750.

Doormen -- $500 each.

Porters -- $250 each.

Tongue-in-cheek as they are, those'd be reasonable numbers in a fully-staffed building with 10-20 apartments, where the maintenance is $5K-$10K or something like that.

No.

Those numbers are city-wide.

And if you can't handle this "normal cost of living" by forking over $5,000 in "tips" to the building staff, then you'd better figure out some other arrangement. I'm sure the building super and the doormen could think of some creative ways your wife or eldest daughter could "work out" the difference.

Oh, go blow a frog, Matt. I AM the wife.

Matt, you have reached new lows... CONGRATS !

ev, like you i have to play with the numbers but here are my thoughts. the doorman i see the most will get the most, he the person that takes care of the dry cleaning, package pick up, giving the key ect. he is on duty the largest percentage of time i am not home so i really depend of him to keep an eye on things. he is clearly the best and i imagine that is why he has that time slot. the building manager next (although i am disappointed in him) because that is basically insurance and then go from there.

Good point, RE2009. I just also want to be fair to the ones I don't see so frequently. I don't really know what the relative difference in status is between concierge and doormen, doormen and handymen. Just trying not to accidentally do anything wrong, but the only consensus seems to be either more is better for everyone, or tipping is a bad idea altogether. Needless to say I am not of the latter mind set and do the best I can with the former.

My building has a small staff. I give the super and the "major domo" daytime doorman who arranges everyting and keeps the building running in everything but the mechanical sense, the most followed by the evening doormen. What about the 12midnight-8am doorman? My life is so boring, I can probably count the times I've seen him on two hands--half of which were early morning flights. True, he is the first line of security for the building but it seems kind of weird to gift the same amount to someone I don't know as the evening doormen I see everyday and who receive packages, dry cleaning, not to mention dealing with the dinner delivery people.

"it seems kind of weird to gift the same amount to someone I don't know as the evening doormen I see everyday and who receive packages, dry cleaning, not to mention dealing with the dinner delivery people."

Actually, what REALLY seems kind of weird is to "gift" people who aren't your friends or family, who you're paying a regular salary to do all of the above.

Liz, in my building, there seems to be a rotating crew of guys who do the late night doorman job as the landlord owns a bunch of buildings and moves people around. The day and evening shifts have the same doormen. Not a bad idea to tip the doormen you actually deal with a little more. To expect someone to be able to give a building staff several thousand dollars in total seems out of the reach of most people, but maybe that number is more common when you own as opposed to rent. But if there's a definitive way you're supposed to tip, it seems that no one knows what it is.

matt, tell us where to forward your tip for all int insightful advise you have given

A rule of thumb suggested a few weeks ago was to spend about 1 month's maintance on tips - you decide how to split it. I personally give every staff member the same.

Yes, but for those of us in rentals, there is no maintenance to key off of.

Liz - I know where you're coming from - also rarely see the night doorman, who also does very little for us compared to the guys on the day shift - so we're doing a little more than half to the night guy of what we give the day shift.

EVNYC - I think there is a reasonable range of maintance that is easy enough to figure out. Take a look at a few comps in nearby buildings. $500/studio; $700 for a one bed; $1300 for a two bed, etc. are fair broad ranges. I like this formula because it helps to equalize the building size component. ie: if you live in a huge building with 20 staffers, you probably won't give them $250 each. But if you live in a small building with 3 staff members, you easily might. And it somewhat evens out - the huge building 20 staffers have plenty of residents to pitch into the pot but the smaller building staffers need their few residents to chip in more. If you just take your maintance (or a comp) and split that amount up, it is a fair guide to use as a starting point.

"A rule of thumb suggested a few weeks ago was to spend about 1 month's maintance on tips - you decide how to split it."

OR ... you could just use that money for Christmas presents for your family, and bake Christmas cookies for the building staff members.

re: night doorman

Even if you don't see him or her, they are still working to watch over the building while you get good night's rest.

If you think the building is just as secure without a night doorman, I could see not giving him or her a tip. However, if their presence is a "must" on your list, then tip them!!

Yeah, y'know, I see the weekday night doorman a lot due to my personal schedule and my dog's digestive schedule, but I still don't tip him quite as much as the day guys, who are dealing with all of the deliveries and packages and whatever else I've got goin' on.

Although . . . the guy who does *weekend* nights will step outside to keep an eye out if I'm walking the dog at 2 or 3 in the morning, which is probably entirely unnecessary, but very much appreciated.

My bottom line is if these guys are making an extra effort for me, that's my rationale for giving them a bigger tip.

So if the day shift doorman does more for you on a day-to-day basis, why isn't he getting tipped as much as the super?

In my case, he is.

"Actually, what REALLY seems kind of weird is to "gift" people who aren't your friends or family, who you're paying a regular salary to do all of the above." Hey Matt did you ever consider that you actually see these people 365 days a year. Im sure you see them more than your friends and most of your family members except the ones you live with. Thats why its ok to gift them at at xmas. I still cant believe you did away with xmas /gifting at your buidling. Somehow, I think it was your preference and not the majority of the building. I can just see you at the board meeting telling lies about how we make 60k a year.

I forgot to mention that to some tenants we are their only friends and family.

NYCMatt - get a life. Seriously you troll every tipping conversation like some obsessed scrooge. Pick up the pieces of your pathetic shattered life and MOVE ON.

"I can just see you at the board meeting telling lies about how we make 60k a year."

Who's "we"?

"My bottom line is if these guys are making an extra effort for me, that's my rationale for giving them a bigger tip."

Define "extra effort", please.

No.

Poor Matt, at this time of year that medication just doesn't help. I'd PAY to see the meltdown if our Matt didn't get HIS year end bonus. Poor Matt, a sad case -

i have an issue with tipping my handyman in the building.. he's done two things for me in the past year and has charged me to do both..

You're expected to tip him so that in the future he'll be *AVAILABLE* to you to do those things for which he'll charge you.

I am living in a building with 500 apartments, so if every apartment tips the super $100, the super will earn 50k after tax with the tips along! And he is working as a super for another building with 500 apartments as well. Isn't that too much?

With 500 apartments, you've most likely got a lot of staff to divvy it up among.

There's no consensus here, but a starting point might be to take the money you've allocated for tips and then determine upon a ratio for distribution. E.g., if $600 and 19 guys, then $50 for the super and $25 each for everybody else. Or $20 for each with a few $40 for the ones you favor. Or any number of other ways.

Matt. The we I was referring to is the staff. I am a concierge/doorman. Hey bb10024. Im not sure what he fixed for you but there are some things they have to charge for and some things they are not supposed to charge for.

I see, Kevin.

So why do you feel you're entitled to tips, when you're working a secure job with health and pension benefits?

are you familiar with the term: custom of the trade? that's why.

That's not an answer.

It also used to be the "custom of the trade" for business owners to pay "protection" or "association fees" to the mob.

that's ridiculous and hopefully you know that. do as you choose--as you've boasted so many times, you've shut this down in your building.

Yes, but my mission won't be complete until ALL New York City residents are free from this mob-style shakedown every December, just to ensure building staffs do the jobs they're already PAID TO DO.

I actually think you guys are being too harsh on NYCMatt. He has valid points. It really makes me cringe viscerally to have to give tips to these anonymous workers in my huge rental building when they are getting paid on benefits. I've never met or spoken to the super so he gets nothing. I do interact a little with a few of the doormen and maintenance people so I figure I'll give them a few bucks (maybe $25 each). I can't see spending more than $200 total for tips.

Bottom line- Stop jumping on Matt because he does make good points.

1. so don't tip them.
2. tip them a minimal amount
3. likening this to a mafia payout is an over the top exaggeration.

I *like* giving tips to the guys who work in my building. It makes them happy and I enjoy rewarding them for a job well done. If it's making y'all sad to give these guys money at the holidays, just don't do it. If giving people tips/bonuses makes you cringey, and you feel that they're already well-enough compensated, why would you even contemplate tipping?

I think tipping is the easiest solution to the question of thanking those who help you out, and probably the method these guys prefer. Frankly, it would be much more inconvenient and annoying to bake them cookies as someone else had suggested.

can someone please fill me in on why you're giving your super so much? no disrespect to mine, i'm sure he's a great guy, and i'm sure he really helps you out (if you need the help) but he's done nothing for me since the day i moved in--yes i see him in the lobby once in a while, and he says 'hey, have a great night' but beyond that nothing. to be honest, he probably stands toward the bottom of my list behind doorman, and probably in line with porters

"If giving people tips/bonuses makes you cringey, and you feel that they're already well-enough compensated, why would you even contemplate tipping?"

Because part of this lovely New York City "custom" is that often if you DON'T tip, the super will "forget" who you are when your toilet backs up, and the doormen will "forget" who you are when you're being raped by an intruder in the lobby.

Well, then, that's a good reason to tip. I think that makes it pretty much a slam dunk decision, unless you want to live in poopwater.

"Well, then, that's a good reason to tip. I think that makes it pretty much a slam dunk decision, unless you want to live in poopwater."

No.

It's a good reason to outlaw the practice altogether.

But Matt makes a valid point: why should we have to live in fear of not getting the service we pay for if we refuse to tip. Basically, they've got us by the balls because they know where we live, so to speak. If you tip poorly in a restauarant after you've gotten your meal, you might get some snide comments from the waiter/tress, but they're not gonna follow you home and beat you senseless. Maybe they won't be so attentitive next time you come into the restaurant, but that's a minor inconvenience. If your building-workers put you on their shit-list, you are screwed.

This is a complete shakedown and everyone knows it goes on.

NYCROBOT - could you please help us out by sharing a few of Matt's "good points"? Was it the mafia one? Or the many sarcastic ones? Maybe the "bake cookies" suggestion? All I see is a sad lonely cheap loser.

i mean i understand your point re: tipping supers, but i am such a low-maintenance tenant, its just hard to rationalize. combine that with the fact that i live in a newly renovated apartment, with high end appliances, etc. i know the main rebuttal to what i'm saying is that you want him to be available in the event something does go wrong, and i do understand this. but in that case, i'd probably go directly to a handyman anyway (or just put in a work-order request--which i'm not sure if that goes through the super or straight to the handymen). in any event, i'm still confused as to how to allocate to a staff of 12+ people

Kevin, the OP was concerned about causing offense by not tipping appropriately. In your experience, how likely is it that this info is shared amongst the staff? ie.if you gave $25 to the super & $100 to that terrific Kevin who is always so helpful.

"i know the main rebuttal to what i'm saying is that you want him to be available in the event something does go wrong"

That's why he's paid a SALARY.

Robot, Matt MAY make some valid points BUT he comes on a little strongly with them and I think it would be different if he said, "I've never gotten a Holiday Bonus & I don't see the need"; however, year end bonuses are pretty common in all walks of life in this society & our Matt has yet to mention HIS.

So much anger!

Was this all unknown to you when you signed your lease or purchased an apartment or parked your car or ordered at a restaurant or took a cab or got a haircut? If you hate giving people tips for a job (well?) done, at least take some solace that in the case of building staff, it's really only once a year.

I'm thinking that this is a little more holistic - if someone doesn't tip at Christmas because they're a jerk, that jerkiness probably manifests throughout the year in other ways. Commence poopwater. We will all cry a river for that misanthropic soul.

"parked your car or ordered at a restaurant or took a cab or got a haircut?"

Valets, waiters, barbers, etc. are all working in extremely low-paid service jobs and rely on tips just to pay the bills.

Not so building staff employees working secure union jobs that pay overtime and offer generous health and pension benefits.

If the notion you're arguing is that discretionary cash bonuses should only be paid to those in financial need, please let me be the first person to welcome you to New York City, friend.

W93rd, thank you.

Here we are living in some of the most expensive RE in the world, and yet looking to stiff the staff? I just don't get it.

You can be either a mensch or a cheap tight parsimonious slinflint. Whichever works. And there's no penalty for being the latter! The building guys have seen it all -- the whole range from generous to cheap -- and just shrug off the percentage of tightwads that every building has.

"Here we are living in some of the most expensive RE in the world, and yet looking to stiff the staff? I just don't get it."

You're' right.

So how much are you tipping your kids' teachers? Your doctors? Your attorney? Your insurance rep? Your accountant? The mailman? The FedEx guy? The UPS guy? The garbage men? The ConEd guy?

Absolutely nothing, as it's not the custom. If it was, I would.

ok just having a hard time with this ,it's been a rough year.. ok.. moved into a large building 250+ apts.. renting from an owner.. just got the list.. appropriate??? $100 super. $50 for the 6 doorman/concierge/ $20 for the 6 porters / $40 for the handyman... am i being cheap when he comes to the porters? thanks so much

do what you feel comfortable and can afford. don't let matt's crazy exaggerations influence you. there is no magic number that makes you ok. treating everyone with civility and respect also goes a long way. even if matt were a tipper, no doubt the whole staff would hate him anyway.

Isn't ROBOT the one who started the food stamps thread? I seem to recall him/her jumping on the Matt bandwagon at least a few times in the past.

As NWT states, it's the custom.

bb10024 - I'd bet that you're well within the meat of the bell curve. If you're comfortable with those amounts, I'm sure that you'll be fine.

But if you think that you're not reflecting the amount of appreciation you intend to project, a Starbucks run for the guys in the lobby a couple of times a year will probably go a long way. I get DVDs at work that I give to them as a little "thanks."

We just got the holiday card and we have 16 people in that list. We moved to our place this August and I've probably seen about 5-6 of them and I barely know their names. I'm a little concerned about tipping all these guys when I have 20+ relatives (litlle cousins, godchildren, nephews and nieces) to buy gifts, most of them will be there during the family xmas party. I wish you just put your contribution in a bucket for the staff and not give individually.

Cleanslate, you are perfectly within your right to not give any of them a single dime.

Just because it's "custom" doesn't make it right. These are well-paid union workers who don't need your charity.

no matt, it makes it customary. it is certainly not necessary to spread holiday cheer to the staff where you live, but many of us engage in the custom. and in my case i am certainly not doing it to ensure service in the upcoming year. i do not feel manipulated, or angry, or otherwise disgruntled about the gifts. if i did, i wouldn't be tipping.

i recommend we do not respond to matt, it only encourages him

What I'd like to know from Kevin5 (apparently the only one who actually has WORKED in a building): 1) do you guys share your tip stories with the other workers in the building and 2) Realistically, if you got a meager tip, say $25 from a tennant- would that make you disinclined to go out of your way for them during the next year? Or do you not really care b/c it's the thought that counts.

this is such bullshit. what does go out of your way really mean? if the super doesn't act appropriately, there is always recourse to the managing agent or the landlord. tip, don't tip; do whatever you want. matt is the one pushing the extortion crap.

Hey Matt I never said I feel ENTITLED to receive gifts/tips. Unlike scrooges like you some of the tenants actually like to show their appreciation. This is the one time of the year where it usually happens. Like I have said previously I treat all tenants with respect and fairness no matter what I am given or not given.

drdrd. unfortunately there are some members of staff who openly discuss what they get. They wont discuss every single gift they receive but they do talk about some. In my building the building manager/super has no idea what we get unless he is given a check to distribute the amounts to the staff.

robot. it really depends on the person. I have one doorman that jumps through hoola hoops for the tenants that give a lot and for those on the board. When it comes to those who tips less he is a step slower. It really disgusts me and other co-workers. It just happens that this guy is obsessed with money. Then I am fortunate to work with 2 other guys who are like myself and will treat everyone the same no matter what.

"I have one doorman that jumps through hoola hoops for the tenants that give a lot and for those on the board. When it comes to those who tips less he is a step slower."

And you have just proven my argument why the practice should be abolished altogether.

This guy should be given the pink slip, not a tip.

what specifically does he do for those who pay vs. those who don't?

its actually kind of funny just watching his body language. He will attempt to try and carry anything they have even if he knows they dont need or want him too. He will open the front door of the car for the board president but not others. I personally think it would be annoying to have someone open the front car door for me unless it is pooring out. Its like his attitude is totally different. Hey Matt one person does not make your point valid. He does not represent the majority of workers in the building. I would have no problem if this guy was given the pink slip and Ive worked with him for 10 years.

Bubbles, the "ignore" function is a be-yoo-tiful thing. Sometimes I peek since he's so darn nasty. NastyMatt, more like.

Is anyone else wondering if Matt gets a bonus at year end??? Im sure he would say its unnecessary and promptly return it. Matt is highly paid and can afford to live in a doorman building so he does not deserve a bonus lol.

matt is a retired postal worker who hasn't gotten out of his robe in six months.

so---matt the face of extortion.

pay up or:

i won't attempt to try and carry anything even if you know i don't want you to
i won't open your car door (not a problem for you matt because no doubt you don't have one)

wow...that sounds far worse than a bullet to the kneecap.

Ive also seen him ask the drivers of tenants when they are leaving or coming back because he knows he will get a good tip for their luggage.

not even a little spit on the shoes? or better yet, tripping you as you try to juggle the packages he won't carry?

matt: if afghanistan is a 10 and the economy is a 15; where would you put this on the matt scale? minus 4,015?

I try to be as generous as possible..our staff is really great and pay a lot of attention to the seniors in the building who have been here since pre-conversion and I doubt have the resouces (or the sense of current economics--my mother used to tip her super, the only building employee and who treated her like gold $50--I always supplemented that amount behind her back) to be as generous as peopole who moved into the buidling recently, like me, and paid "boom" prices for their apartment.

My guess is if "holiday tips" were outlawed per Matt, the next round of contract negotiations with the building workers union would be extremely contentious, maintenance would go up radically and it place a burden on some of those seniors and others. I don't know where Matt gets his $60K figure, he might live in a different class of building, and that may be an all-in number in terms of cost to the building (social security, benefits etc) but the cash salary our building manager quoted as average for an employee was MUCH lower. Clearly if that is is the wage, then "year end bonus", is as critical to total compensation as it is to a sales executive or Wall Stree type.

Btw, what does the super do? He's one of those people if you don't need him, he's probably doing his job. Are the mechancial systems in your building working? Do you get heat whenever appropriate (more of an issue for older buildings)? Does everything appear to be serviced on schedule? You super is doing his job.

Yeah - as far as the super goes, their real skill comes into play when keeping other building staff on the ball, as well as doing a good job mediating tenant vs. tenant issues.

You've noticed that Matt addresses everybody else's bonus but his own. What kind of a year end bonus do YOU get, Matt? Your myriad admirers want to know.

maybe matt's bonus was eliminated a couple of years ago. would explain a great deal.

I just finished writing out the holiday cards for the staff in my building. I thought that we had 15 on staff, but actually it's 19. I wanted to thank Scoots for your guidance about what would be a comparable maintenance amount for a two bedroom as a total amount for tips and also NWT for her suggestion about how she tips the staff in her building. Both comments helped me figure out what to do in my case.

Good on you, lobster. We're still waiting to hear from NYCMatt about HIS holiday bonus.

What about a live in super that has a salary and gets housing paid?

Matt: saw you your earlier posts and am not sure what to make of them. In one post you indicated very high tip numbers ($1,000 for super, $500 for handymen, etc.) that you claim are the norm. A bit later you chide Kevin for expecting tips.

Although I have no stats to back this up, I would guess that the tip levels you claim are normal are normal only at 740 park Avenue and maybe a couple of other buildings. Your post implies that you are a generous and willing tipper. On the other hand you submitted a post in which you chide Kevin for expecting a tip.

So, which one is it? Are you a generous and willing tipper or do you frown on building staff for expecting tips?

As for my $0.02 regarding tipping: my building budget is about $500. I will give about half to the doormen and the rest will put in an employees fund. Yes, the doormen will get paid twice, but they pulled a few favors for me, so they will end up getting a bit extra. I may also slip something to the handyman if I ever get a chance to talk to him. I have tried a few times finding him, but but the guy is elusive to say the least. However, when I leave messages for him to fix things, it gets done. Our 'relationship' is such that whenever I need something fixed, i leave $10 near the broken item, then leave a message for the handyman. Most of the time, when I get home, the $10 is gone, but the problem is fixed. I feel it is a bit strange, but it works. Anyone else have a similar 'lomg-distance relationship' with their handyman?

NYCMatt is a scrooge with an ax to grind so his post about big tips was facetious. I think he once said that he works for one of the big TV networks so I'd be shocked if he didn't get a year end bonus from his employer but he has done away with them at his co-op building, where he is on the board, & would like to dissuade everyone else from tipping. He refuses, however, to address the topic of his own holiday bonus so he is apparently a hypocrite as well as mysoginistic.

"Btw, what does the super do? He's one of those people if you don't need him, he's probably doing his job. Are the mechancial systems in your building working? Do you get heat whenever appropriate (more of an issue for older buildings)? Does everything appear to be serviced on schedule? You super is doing his job."

Good for him.

Millions of other people are doing THEIR jobs too, without shaking down their employers for a "tip".

just who the fuck is shaking down anyone? other than you, robot and a couple of others do you get the sense that we feel we are being taken advantage of?

that's what i don't get, matt. you keep on referring to this near extortion. most of us don't do this to "guarantee" service. we do it for holiday cheer and custom. my super hasn't asked for a cent. nor have i ever heard that he's given ANYONE poor service, and i know that many people here don't have anything to tip.

and, NYCMatt, while steadfastly refusing to mention your own year end bonus; a nasty miser, indeed.