Science: Deepwater Horizon vs. Long Island City

But at least NYC was successful in capping the leakage with the PowerHouse kill shot... we're still waiting on BP

Do you see LICC waving in the distance?

alan, your posts are otherwise great, but I think this is the kind of stuff SE was referring to in their mini-diatribe the other day. The LIC "joke" is more over than the condo boom in those parts.

bjw2103, this is a science article from today's New York Times, and it refers directly to the economic development and health concerns in the immediate area. I didn't even post a comment one way or the other.

Are you looking for cheerleading, or balanced information that people can use in their real estate decisions?

bjw, me thinkz this one is okay. It's got tons of relevance.

1stly its about superfunds and cancer zones
2ndthusly, it's about foolz that bought in fringe areas of NYC, bc of said chem/bio hazards
3rdly... my PH kill shot reference makes me laugh...

You'll just have to color me skeptical given the volume of anti-LIC posts. I wouldn't call it particularly balanced.

BJW
Are you suggesting affirmative action for LIC? :)

BTW, I must have missed the fireworks, I thought the farewell letters was/were the spark to the current SE mood. Did I miss a streeteasy thread?

"alan, your posts are otherwise great, but I think this is the kind of stuff SE was referring to in their mini-diatribe the other day. The LIC "joke" is more over than the condo boom in those parts."

Don't disagree in principle, but I think alan should get credit for the quality of response that his post prompted from w67 (one-liner of the week award for that one, and without using a single z) and therefore be excused from censure in this case

Yup... "Power House Kill Shot" best in show.

wow that article is really scary

there's nothing funny about this

X-Men of LIC.................coming to a theather near you

The mutations have to begin somewhere

by the way....
I've been writing about this toxic zone as long as I've been on this site.
Once it's in the ground it leeches out forever.
The problem is that that Power House is so damn enticing!

Wbottom, I don't understand your comment ... do you see ROTFL, or even LOL or tee-hee or hahaha?

It's a terrible tragedy. We should protect Earth, not pollute her.

I know some people compliment alan on his being funny, but I don't see it. I find most of his attempts at humor to be just stupid. This isn't about the content. I think steve is nasty and wrong about most things, but he comes up with witty stuff that makes me laugh sometimes. Not alan. I find alan's commentary quite dumb.

And alan, have you ever said where you live? Sunnyside? You probably live closer to Newtown Creek than I do.

Ooo! I got a vote of confidence from LICC!

You really should address the heart of the issue, LICC, instead of making it personal. Long Island City is a dump.

steve, we have been through this and you always come up on the short end. LIC is great. Great crowd and mix of people who live here, great new buildings, restaurants, businesses. Great art and local theater establishments. Great waterfront views and parks. Easy commutes.

You live on 52nd and 8th. Theater District. Many people consider it congested, dirty, loud and ugly. Sorry steve, you lose again.

But I do think you say witty and funny stuff sometimes.

LICComment....I agree, Alan really isn't funny. He's witty. It takes a certain amount of intelligence to appreciate true wit.

I also think stevejhx is witty and funny, LICcounty, but I don't understand why you have to bash Sunnyside or Sutton Place West or any other neighborhood for that matter.

If you can't contribute to the discussion about this real estate-relevant article from the NYT Science section, as all the other posters on this thread have, why comment at all?

And how you get from toxic waste to great art is another curiosity altogether ... ?????

"we have been through this and you always come up on the short end. LIC is great."

http://www.wirednewyork.com/queens/images/queensbridge_houses_8feb04.jpg

as long as we are love/hate-festering, i find ah and stevejhx to be hilarious in a witty way--and i teehee/rotfl much re the promoters of LIC

and witty funny bashing is fine with me--i live in hoboken--it's been an amazing investment--have at it

there once was a gal from newtown
who in the creek washed her best evening gown
when it melted away
it fouled her mood for that day
so to cheer self she left stench for midtown

a first--promise better as i write more of these

NYCD- I find alan neither funny nor witty. Just lame. He tries to play on double meanings or reverse words back on you, and it just doesn't work. To me he is a sad figure.

Nice limerick, Bottom!

works for me

flawed limerick: she waited hours for the 7 train and went home, still pissed off

Biking to Gantry
Hoping for a nice hammock
Only 5, too few

Five Gantry hammocks
They hold thousands at one time
Not only people -- bedbugs

alanhart, FAIL!

Strict form:

Five Gantry hammocks
They hold thousands at one time
If you count bedbugs

hahahahaha!

bummer...i don't get it

I've posted several times about the cancer cluster in Greenpoint, which is believed to be due to the oil spill in Newtown Creek.

But there are always naysaysers. That's fine, people should debate, but you know with any cancer cluster you can never conclusively prove causality -- this is true where you have power lines that are clearly associated with cancer occurance, and it's true with illness that occurs over years and years near the sites of heavy oil spills and other pollutants.

But you know, there is a certain point where you have to ask yourself, hey here is an obvious source of pollution, it's severe and it could be linked to serious illness over the long haul. So do I really want to live next to it?

I spent some time along the creek 12 or 13 years ago when I was in grad school, doing research. Factories along the creek's edge dumped industrial toxics into the water for more than a century. This included factories that were working overtime during World War II, and completely unregulated factories at the end of the nineteenth century.

Newtown Creek is the most polluted waterway in the country. It has never been remediated. Do you really want to live anywhere close to it? Do you really want to raise your kids anywhere close to it?

The Love Canal Redux.

Bottom: Look up 5 Gantry.

How bad can it really be...

http://www.hookandbullet.com/Fishing-newtown-creek-new-york-city-ny/

Graffiti, I hear you, but I am an inherently skeptical person, so I question some of the thinking going on here. The cancer rates for Greenpoint are lower than Manhattan's for the vast majority of cancer types, and while, as you say, causality cannot be 100% conclusively determined, I find that it severely undercuts the whole "stay far away from this neighborhood" mentality that tends to float around on this issue.

In no way am I downplaying the fact that the creek is, sadly, a polluted toxic mess that is long overdue for major cleaning efforts. A toxin-filled body of water simply makes for a sexier story than even air pollution or poor diet choices, which may well be among the causes of the higher cancer rates in other neighborhoods, and that's why, unfortunately, some seem to latch on to it for humor, sensationalism, or whatever. So I question how much of a direct impact it has on those living in the neighborhood unless they're swimming in it or spending significant time on the river banks, because the anticipated effect doesn't seem to be showing up. If you don't want your kids exposed to heightened cancer risk, I have to think, based on the data, you'd want to leave the city entirely.

truthskr10, http://tinyurl.com/2b7cvdu

Ahart
Wouldn't be so bad if there were some lobsters with three tails though.

It was actually the fishing that prompted action;
http://queens-rules.org/2009/10/01/fishing-prompts-federal-proposal-to-clean-up-newtown-creek-in-queens/

THough nobody said a thing about anyone actually catching anything anywhere.

I think it's nuts that all interested parties in the area don't band together to pressure the government to clean it up now.

Should also take some lessons from China and Hong Kong on expanding water taxis and making them more convenient and viable.

Sheeeeeeet....Trump should have daily water taxis to Atlantic City.
Hydrofoils with slots on them if you decide to make the trip at 10 miles out along the coast.

I hear you, bjw2103. Skepticism is good.

But I think it's useful to go over there and walk up to the creek and look down in the water.

The last time I did this -- which I admit was a decade ago -- the water was completely, absolutely dead. Thick, opaque, gray, static, stinky and dead. No insects flying above the surface, no birds anywhere around. No air bubbles in the water, which would be a sign of fish or other waterlife.

It is a dead body of water.

It's also interesting to tramp around the creeks edges a bit. The whole waterway is an industrial wasteland, there are dead and decaying factories along the banks, as far as the eye can see.

You will get a better picture of what is going on over there if you see it for yourself. As is always the case.

I wouldn't put residential strucutures anywhere within miles of that creek. But since nobody put me personally in charge of development in NYC, I can exercise my common sense on own behalf at least.

And I urge anyone thinking of moving to LIC or anywhere else in the vicinity to visit the banks of Newtown Creek first. Make your own decision but base it on the evidence, and collect the evidence yourself.

GG, there are higher cancer rates in Manhattan than in LIC. And LIC has had a residential presence for decades. Do you recommend that people walk around Manhattan and "see" the air pollution for themselves before moving there?

Graffiti, totally agree, and I would hope it should go without saying that wherever you're thinking of buying property, you'd be well served to really get the know the area in person. And yes, make your decision based on evidence, though collecting evidence on cancer rates yourself is rather difficult. Here's the link I referred to:
http://www.health.state.ny.us/statistics/cancer/registry/pdf/volume1nycneighborhoods.pdf

LICComm, no need to be so snarky.

"there are higher cancer rates in Manhattan than in LIC"

Then why on earth do you tout that the best part of Long Island City is that it's just "5 minutes" away from Manhattan?

Certainly I don't tout that the best part of Manhattan is that it's just "5 minutes" from Long Island City.

Nobody else does, either.

I heard there were limmericks going on here.

These articles are informative. Important to know about.

Here's something that hasn't been discussed:

It's almost a decade since 9/11. Anybody who lived down in that area at the time, or volunteered; Please go to a throat specialist. Make sure you have a good dentist who is taking a good look in there, say "Ahhh" and let the dentist inspect.

There are people walking around, with all kinds of stuff growing. My dentist found a little thing growing behind my uvula. I went to a specialist. He found that the little thing was bigger than could be seen by my dentist. I volunteered for quite a while after 9/11. The thing was excavated out of there.
It's alright now. But, get checked.

I think the air quality in most of LIC is actually better than in Manhattan. This report from the City indicates lower quantities of almost every air pollutant.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/eode/nyccas_master_report_12_15_09.pdf

However my concern is with some of the projects like HV, OHP, and Murano being so close to LIRR diesel engines, LHaus (busy intersection, bridge), and Foundry (midtown tunnel ventilation tower). Can someone tell me whether these are legitimate concerns about air quality? Please only non-sarcastic posts.

Are you sure those trains use diesel? I though the US electrified its trains in the 1950s.

Choo-Choo Charlie for mayor of Long Island City?

Yes the LIRR trains use diesel after Babylon. The diesel trains come as far as Jamaica. New Jersey Transit & Amtrak also use the Long Island City rail yards, and they, too, have some diesel engines. They must, because the LIRR uses a third rail, whereas NJ Transit, Amtrak, and Metro North use overhead lines.

stevejhx: You stealin' my material?

Good post, Alan & good info, Graffiti.

It's outrageous that this place has not been cleaned up.

A friend of mine, who is a reporter & investigated Newtown Creek, also told me that Williamsburg is extremely polluted, but, I don't know if that's true.

No, Truth: I invented Choo-Choo Charlie for Mayor of Long Island City.

He lives at Arris Lofts.

pls dont tell me you all are reformed

i'd hoped for another run of limericks and haiku

at least someone should compile a cut/pasted collection--so much good material hiding in SE'a servers

One should not diss Long Island City too hard.
It has done the impossible.
It has risen like a Phoenix from the ashes of toxic waste of the most polluted site this side of the Mississippi. It has found people to turn a blind eye to the obvious health hazards and raise their children there.
It's the NYC's answer to a Three Mile Island Condo/retail complex.
Does the ground glow at night?

How about installing some Mississippi flying asian carp fish for an attraction.

For those who have no idea wehat I'm talking about
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mississipi+carp&aq=f

Actually come to think it, people will think the fish are trying to jump out because the water is so polluted

stevejhx: Oh, I thought that you were nominating Choo Choo Charlie.
He's retired from that Good&Plenty gig. He's got enough money to live big in Manhattan. Date some models.

When Choo-Choo Charlie ran for mayor
He promised to answer LIC's prayers.
He said, "Down with the trains!
"The sludge and the planes!
"Secede from Manhattan, those haters!"

Not bad, stevejhx. You came up with that one real fast.

Well Bottom asked for some poetry, so poetry is what he got.

Lovely, too, ain't it?

Very.

It happened in fine LIC
that ill-regulated chem industry
polluted newtown's shores
put at risk of foul sores
those who bought new homes or from old ones did not flee

does that work? i'm new at this

Good work, bottom. Go to the top.

the no-caps is kind of an ee cummings thing im working on

he's my girlfriend's fave pornstar

that's I.C.U. Cumming, I think, bottom. :)

Very good on the limerick front. Last line maybe has a few extra syllables, but I like how you twisted English syntax to get it to rhyme. Shakespeare would be proud. (Think: "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet": who talks like that?!)

A Superfund site?
Perfect, Long Island City!
But we're not there yet ... ?????

wbottom: " The boys I mean are not refined..." (e.e.cummings, look it up. Nice poem.)

"Beyond the blue horizon lies the risin' sun..."

AH, you must move beyond the haiku to, say, the sonnet, or perhaps an "Ode to Long Island City."

You up to it?

The Arris Lofts appear
to cost a price so dear.
Yet they look
upon a brook
there sailing a flotilla of bier.

There once was a man from Standard Oil
Who destroyed the Earth as he toiled
The dump, Newtown Creek
Till today it still reeks
No matter how many dimes, it's still spoiled

to set the record stright:

Choo Choo Charlie was an engineer
stuck his finger up his mother's rear
his mother said, "G-d bless his soul"
But, he better get his finger out of my......

falcogold and stevejhx: Neck and neck.

falcogold: "Out of my right ear...?"

I beg to differ, Truth: excellent though falcogold's limerick is, any limerick starting with "There once was a..." is automatically disqualifed from the contest. Like starting a joke with, "What's up with...?" - overdone.

Now then, if he said, "Rockefeller founded Standard Oil..." then he gets Brownie points.

Rules clear?

Oh, yes; stevejhx: You are the master of the form.

But, you're a professional funster. Give a break to the parvenues.

steve...I agree
Had a harder time with the limerick than first I thought.

falcogold: You are the list-master. Everybody has their area of expertise.
Work yours, falcogold.
Work it.

There's a trick to limericks: if you're Irish, and/or drunk (same thing, more or less), it's natural.

But yours was an excellent first effort!

Give props where they are due.

who was to know
the tennis courts would go?
replaced by the masses
annoying the asses

bottom, there's a poet laureate nomination in this thread for you!

one cant force fine art like this--i have been patient, and now it's just spewing from me

merwin better get some stuff out soon--there's certainly plenty to write about

do you think he'll do something on long island city?
i dont think real estate is in his wheelhouse, though he has a history of touching on environmental issues

oh and i am irish and might still be a little bit drunk this morning

i guess the planets are aligned

Yes, the planets: Mars in Uranus, or something like that. Auspicious for Long Island City real estate, I understand.

Welcome to my world.

There once were developers all walks of life stemming
Sales pitches and tactics all fraught with red herrings
Built on unicorn tears
Quite the marketing racketeers
With an endless supply of ripe lemmings

i planted a tree
in long island city

it died

how old are you now?
to have once planted a tree
and to have lost it?

Bottom wins Round 2.

jeeez tough crowd

ooooo, the Arris Lofts limerick is on a par with the platypus or whoever waddling out of Newtown Creek - breaking new grounds in LIC limericks - but what about Williamsburg? LES? Chelsea? "Clinton"?

lowery, no place in on par with LIC ... those places don't inspire poetry. I guess Chelsea had its little rhyme about mice that don't move and some fat hobo who climbs in through the chimney to eat chocolate chip cookies or whatever, but still ...

Okeh, I guess other places ARE on a par with LIC and deserve literary mention. But it's so hard to find words that rhyme with Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Love Canal, Passaic River, and Bikini Atoll.

Roses are red,
Earth's air is free,
But don't try to breathe
In Long Island City

[Okeh, now do *I* get to be SE poet laureate? No?]

There once was a man from Newtown creek
While cleaning his yard found a leak
The malignancy , Grand
The tumor grew out of hand
He barely lasted the week

falco, excellent!

Next poet/poem?

we have a new winner, ladies and gentlemen - stevejhx, you may now turn your crown over to falcogold1

and now for a less rigorous form:

Chernobyl's haunting silence is disrupted in its sister city
by the grinding and banging and screeching of new construction;
But soft! What twin yonder in Pennsylvania beckons with its
primal scream of sympathetic vibration?

Could it be the ghosts of Three Mile Island?
No, it's too annoying.....

The groaning of Love Canal mothers grieving their children's
premature demise?

Is it only the gentle lapping of the Passaic River,
its sad, its lifeless waters' lapping filthy shores
echoing in faraway LIC?

No, it is only the scream of the Lorelei, beckoning to
Midtown office workers seductively.... come to me, oh,
foolish sailors, come with me to Newtown Creek, and
we shall swim together to our final resting place
in the Bikini Atoll.

Again, people: no limerick beginning with "There once was..." is eligible for the Triple Crown.

Lowery - excellent. I cede the crown to Lorelei and the Bikini Atoll - that will be hard to beat. I may have to contemplate this on the beach this afternoon, see what I come up with.

It may require Alexandrine verse. That's tough to beat. (Though it makes crappy poetry in English, it does sound good in ancient Greek.)

Long Island has it's own city
The toxicity makes it a pity
So close to Manhattan
You can feel the attraction
I wouldn't live there for three fitty ($3.50)

steve, stretch yourself - cast off formalaic metrical strictures and plunge into blank verse

lowery: Wow! Professorial.

falcogold: Nice work for a Saturday.

bottom: Climb back to the top. What else do you have?

Truth, I thought that the sentiments about LIC were more of pathos, pity, lots of postindustrial angst, and alanhart, whose opinions I respect, pointed out that LIC is sans pareil within our five boros, that it was in a league with.... so I tried to broaden the horizons of the SE Poets' Corner to take in more than just tired little Let's Make a Set for The Jetsons and Live In It.

I do feel that the poetic talents of this forum could sharpen their talons on other neighborhoods. We pick on LIC too much, so I think we should poke fun at something more like sacred cows - Alphabet City, Chelsea, Upper West Side, Park Slope.

And just to put things into perspective, which is lost when people make derogatory remarks about what they consider "bad neighborhoods" -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtI-En92Xso

lowery: Very nice, very nice. And I mean it, really.

Long Island City, Long Island City
Tragic village of woe
Who could have guessed
Being so blessed
Your prices could reach such a low

Big sheets of glass
And a trendy new bath
"Amenities" up the waz-oh
But open your eyes, admit there've been lies
That salesperson was just a big ho'

People: you are to be congratulated! This is TRUE ART!

Gold stars for falco and ah!

alanhart, in the immortal words of Robert Schumann in his early 1830s article re: Frederic Chopin: "Hats off, gentleman, a genius!"