Newbie at open house

I wouldn't worry about it too much: what you can afford vs what you're willing to spend are two entirely different things. Things to actually worry about:

1) Don't fall in love with just one place, be willing to walk.

2) If you're that close to where the asking price is at the limits of what you can afford, it might be too much. What happens if you're out of a job for several months or have to take a significant pay cut?

3) The broker cannot legally have your interests in mind during negotiations. On the other hand, you're providing a one-sided deal, so the broker is incentivized to have you buy for a lower price rather than someone else at a higher price. Play very tough hardball.

4) Although much better than a year ago, price vs rent is out of whack still, so fundamentals are bad. Outlook isn't great as downward mentality has taken over, glut of new construction coming online, etc. Be prepared to see your entire down payment go to zilch and then some: not a certainty, but somewhere between a possible and a likely scenario. Can you step into that level of risk, with little potential of upside vs waiting a couple of years?

Best of luck, just remember to work through the high-level strategy before you worry too much about the low-level tactics.

nycgal2009--

when you submit a bid you'll have to submit that information anyway. If you're represented by a broker, the info is breezed through it in a line or so ("oh, my client is an engineer who makes $75K") because the broker's professional duty is to check it.

If you're unrepresented, though, you'll have to file a financial disclosure form that asks you about your job, your years on the job, your credit card bills, your 401(k) statements, etc...so that stuff is all going to have to show up.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Never let a broker (or anyone else) convince you of what you can or should spend. It doesn’t matter if you have $100 m in the bank. If you are only willing to pay $500k for a property then you should bid $500k and stand firm. The owner will ultimately decide what he or she wishes to accept. Who cares if the broker goes back to the owner and says, “we should push him, I know he makes $5m a year” – they can push all they want … you stay firm on your offer and let the seller decide. Good luck!

I've seen far less push-back from listing agents lately - they'll be happy to get your offer. As long as you weren't planning on some stony-faced lowball, you've improved your position by demonstrating an ability to pay.

I've been ridiculed on this board for it, but I think showing sincere enthusiasm for a property is a good negotiating tactic. As long as you are absolutely firm about how much you are willing to pay, showing a little love for the place will help grease the wheels.

Tina
(Brooklyn broker)

I would absolutely agree with Tina - a seller is more likely to accept a bid from someone who really wants the property than someone who he/she fears may walk.

nycgal: Yes it was foolish of you to give this information. Not damaging, but foolish. Next time that is asked of you, respond by asking for the brokers social security number. If she asks why? simply state that it is policy of nycgal and that it is no big deal. Usually just use it for background checks about ethical and criminal violations, you know, usual stuff.

In the future, I wouldn't disclose your financial info at the initial meeting. They're going to get that soon enough if you decide to put in an offer. Also, in my experience, it's generally best to go in with a bit of a poker face, even if you love the apartment. Show interest ("amazing views!") but temper it with concern ("kitchen and baths need full gut reno")--if they think you're head-over-heels and a sure thing, they're less likely to negotiate.

That said, I don't think you've messed this up if you want to pursue making an offer. But as others have pointed out, come up with a number you think is right and stick with it (offer a bit under so there's room to come up). Look at comps so you have as clear an idea as possible of what the apartment's worth before putting in a bid and don't let yourself be bullied by the sell-side agent.

Nice, patient09. That attitude will get you far. Yes, we have a fiduciary duty to our sellers, but nobody likes a meanie.
Tina
(Brooklyn broker)

Ugh! I'm so tired of listing brokers asking personal financial questions from the get-go. For us it's "what's your budget"? I used to say, "it depends on the space", but now I just tell them, "my budget is however low this owner is willing to go". I'm sure rentals are different from sales, but I'm sure you could come up with an elusive, yet matter-of-fact response to such awkward questions.

how about:

1. not on the first date.
2. none of your business

nycgal2009, you are not a fool, maybe just a bit green about brokers' methods, and it's OK don't worry about it!! You are on a learning curve, lots to learn when buying an apartment. Know in the future you can give a very general answer to a broker who asks about your financial status. Or you can say, I'd rather not discuss it. The broker's job is to try to sell the place, and they should be more than happy to answer all your questions without you revealing your salary or savings. Good luck!

The market is crazy and you seem sane now, so try to stay that way.

Nice for the selling broker that you came on your own. He/she won't have to share the commission.

Check out time on market, previously selling price, last sale date, etc. on Streeteasy and/or Property Shark.

When you negotiate or make that offer, try to put a dollar figure on the fix for what you don't like:

So, instead of saying the pink tile in the bathroom is ugly (or stained, cracked, etc.), say I think I might need $1000 to repair/replace the tile. Or suggest the cost to refinish the floor or paint or whatever. They may respond that the price already reflects the work that needs to be done and then you have to check comparable sale prices if you can find them.

Still sane? Some things you just can't work with: if you don't like the view, or the apartment is too dark or you really prefer a higher floor or a south exposure or it's no pets and you might want that pooch some day, keep looking. The cost to purchase and sell is so high these days try to aim for most of what you really want.

Good luck!

So when you submit an offer do you have to reveal ALL of your financial information? I know you need to reveal your source of income and how you plan on paying for the apt. whether it be cash or a mortgage but do you have to tell the broker about all the money you have put away for your retirement, all of your stocks, CDs etc.?

yes, because the co-op board is going to want that information. The board package is essentially a financial strip search.

What if it's a Condo Board, do they want as much info as a Co Op Board?

The condo boards usually are similar, maybe not as thorough in terms of the documentation.

As far as asking financial questions, I always do before showing a property, my own included, unless it is an open house. The questions are not "What is your salary?" and "How much do you have in liquid assets?", but "Do you make more than $X" and "Do you have at least $X in liquid assets?".

When a broker asks you those questions initially, you can ask what are the minimum requirements for this board, for this apartment, at the current price. Once you go through with an offer, you will definitely have to reveal information.

"Nice, patient09. That attitude will get you far. Yes, we have a fiduciary duty to our sellers, but nobody likes a meanie.
Tina"

Tina: are you for real. Do you really believe that one smart ass response to a broker will stop an owner from wanting to sell their apt? And I would hardly call my comment being a "meanie" I think you are just jaded by being an insider. You probably havn't had to tolerate the endless garbage that most buyers have endured. I am by no means an expert, but I have bought and sold more than the average knuckleheads worth of property in my lifetime. I simply don't have the time or inclination to tolerate idiots. I try as hard as I can to be nice, usually I am successful, not always. The times I choose to be nasty, it is probably helpful to the agents in the long run.

Most agents can't spell fiduciary, much less detail what it means to them w/respect to their relationship with the property owner.

And btw, I think it is a good idea for an agent to have a legitimate watchdog and code of ethics and not that garbage from the REBNY.