Existing home sales at highest level since 2007

SteveF has a new name.

Stevejhx demands that you ONLY post bad news that agrees with his myopic view on RE....

Its such a bunch of Negative Nancy's on here, thought I would post something positive. I'm sure the roseary bead brigade wil be out in full force shortly to talk about why NYC real estate will be $2 psf soon!

You think the putative cause, an $8,000 tax credit, has any effect on someone buying a million-dollar-plus apartment in Manhattan?

If so, then I take back my comment!

Thank you for posting this. It is an excellent preview of the Manhattan market in 2013-2014. Volume will surge when prices drop.

I agree with you: a positive outlook is the only way to live.

SkinnyNsweet: I agree with you, but you won't have to wait until 2013 to see significantly lower prices in Manhattan. It is happening now.

yeah Steve that is the ONLY cause in today's market, no reason to even consider historically low financing rates, tax advantages, softness in pricing, great selection......

You wont see "significantly lower prices" in the next few years. You will see price increase and sooner than you think. Then you will see finance rates go up and you will be even more priced out....forever.

Now I'm confused.

Is it positive thinking to point out that prices are lower now?

I thought that was being negative. I don't even know what's good anymore.

I'm going to have to go back to another Rich Dad, Poor Dad course to figure this out.

Is bulldozing considered existing home sales?

good news is when the value of petro's slums is rising. really good news is when his vegas deal breaks even. he is ecstatic when he can raise rents and people have to pay more than a third of their take home pay to him, preferably half.

all of this, of course, is consistent with his democratic ideals.

w67th, no, inventory reduction.

See, bulldozing is negative thinking because those are houses being destroyed. w67, that's why you are so depressed because you are always focused on the negative.

But, maybe no one lived in them. And, maybe the people who have jobs doing the bulldozing are happy to have a job. And, happiness is more important than destruction of things? And maybe clear land is positive because now you can build a new happy home on it?

So, maybe thinking about bulldozing is positive thinking?

Like I said, I'm just so confused about positive thinking.

AboutReady as opposed to your parasitic ideals of taking TREBLE damages when you are not due them or deserve them?

Or how about your ideals of taking from the community and not bothering to invest in it?

Or your ideals of spewing hatred on these boards all day about people you have never met or know anything about?

petrfitz -- don't you think higher interest rates would cause prices to soften? That is usually the way it works.

Your comment here seems to suggest that higher interest rates would only fuel a climb in higher asking pricies....I don't get it. Maybe I misunderstood you?

thanks.

So aboutready is treble and petrofrizz is base?

The gain was likely due to an influx of buyers looking to take advantage of an $8,000 tax credit that the Obama administration made available for qualified first-time home buyers, the report said.

The tax credit was scheduled to expire at the end of November, but it has been extended to April 30 and expanded to include more home buyers.

"Many buyers have been rushing to beat the deadline ... and similarly robust sales may be occurring in November," NAR chief economist Lawrence Yun said in a statement.

Make money in 2010: Your home
But such a spike means December and early 2010 will probably see a "measurable decline before another surge in spring and early summer," Yun said.

Adam York, economist at Wells Fargo, agreed that "it's really a story of the tax credit, and a payback is inevitable."

no Graffiti higher financing rates fuel a climb in affordability not necessarily sales price.

Columbia - they also extended the deal to existing homeowners who have owned for 5 years or more. They can now get I belive $6500 for buying another property.

skinny, is it positive to be happy that you can collect half of someone's take-home income for shelter?

of course it is! it makes petro happy, so it must be positive.

and bulldozing, that would make wonderbra very happy because unsightly shelter doesn't deserve to exist.

Is it positive for someone to want to live in the most expensive and competitive city in the world and expect to not pay 50% of your time or more? Is it positive to want others to subsidized your unrealistic ideals?

Or what ideal goes along with Gluttany? Eating so much food an balooning to over 200 pounds because you were "worried?" Imagine the starving people who could have lived on the food you over ingested....

personal attacks are always nice. as is laughing at major illness.

how do i pay my time? sounds like prison.

go rip off your tenants, petro.

"you will be even more priced out....forever."

If everybody is priced out forever, who will be left to buy, ever? Good luck trying to sell!

petrfitz: higher interest rates = lower prices. Consider also: high unemployment, higher taxes, higher cost of living, lower rents.

about ready ARE YOU SERIOUS???? You started the personal attack on me. Now you claim that I am not nice because I responded to YOUR attack? You are pathetic.

saul - not necessarily. interest rates to prices is not a direct correlation.

petro, you amuse me so.

oh so AboutREady you are denying that you attacked me first?

"no reason to even consider historically low financing rates, tax advantages, softness in pricing, great selection"

I'm only quoting the article.

Here is you attacking me without provocation:

aboutready
about 1 hour ago
ignore this person
report abuse good news is when the value of petro's slums is rising. really good news is when his vegas deal breaks even. he is ecstatic when he can raise rents and people have to pay more than a third of their take home pay to him, preferably half.

all of this, of course, is consistent with his democratic ideals.

This controversy seems very negative.

I'm scared that listening to it may make me less successful.

But being scared is a negative thought. So, I need to be positive about it. There. I'm positive about this thread and controversy. You two can keep being negative to each other. I'm positive, I think.

Is there a device that can help me only think positive thoughts? I'm so confused.

petro, you attack everyone who rents, categorically. and i think that discussing someone's known and reported commentary regarding real estate is different than attacking someone's weight. you ARE happy when prices go up, and you DO like to increase rents. you say so frequently, and with great pride.

clever use of the letters, there, though.

skinny, it's positive that we are spewing our invective here rather than elsewhere.

it's important that you are positive. it's what is necessary for our economic well-being in the short term. so keep up the good work. just remember that anything that is negative can be spun positive and you, and our economy, will be just fine. feedback loops. animal spirits. and all that.

so you are a better person AboutREady for calling me a SLUMLORD when you dont know anything about my buildings or my tenants but I am a bad person for caling you FAT when you have admitted to it yourself?

I am not a Slum lord and have never said I was. You ahve said you were FAT>

I am happy when prices go up because it means that people unlike you who have invested in neighborhoods and took a risk are being rewarded. I like when rents go up because it means the economy is doing well and renters can pay more.

What is wrong with that? You want to pay less and make owners make less money based on the risks they took on the neighborhoods you take advantage of. You want to take payments on damages you didnt suffer.
You want all the advantages of a neighbor and not take any risk or not invest in that area.

You are a parasite.

So says the person who expressed eagerly anticipating waste backflows

such a prince

"You will see price increase and sooner than you think. Then you will see finance rates go up and you will be even more priced out....forever."

No, as others have pointed out, rising interest rates will keep pricing down. Not sure how you came up with that? And the "forever" stuff is so childish (and wrong of course).

"Or your ideals of spewing hatred on these boards all day about people you have never met or know anything about?"

This is a joke right? Coming from the same person who incessantly calls others "morons", "partisan hacks", "serfs", and equates Williamsburg to a "gang-infested toxic wasteland"? No, you definitely don't spew hatred about people you've never met. What a joke.

Oh BJW the guy with a vested interest in pumping up RE values falsely in Williamsburg and who claims that I am the ONLY one who thinks that Williamsburg is a RE disaster - you have any credibility?

OR does your credibility come from your parasitic job in health insurance bankrupting people when they most need the help????

And for the record Williamsburg IS a gang infested toxic wasteland and the epicenter of the RE crisis. There is no lying there and plenty of news reports to back up those statements. Maybe the cyclohexane is getting to your brain BJW?

what rising interest rates? Rates are not rising. Do you live in a box?

Two thoughts.
One the Nay sayers predicting 40% down are looking more and more foolish each day, and second, the current numbers are not "that good"(keep in mind many sales are borrowed from the future...

Never mistake activity for achievement
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/11/existing-home-sales-distressing-gap.html
The initial gap was caused by the flood of distressed sales. This kept existing home sales elevated, and depressed new home sales since builders couldn't compete with the low prices of all the foreclosed properties.

AboutReady lives in a box that she doesnt own and pays over 50% of her husbands take home to live there. She demands to be treated like the owner of that box but is not willing to pay for it or take the risk of owning it.

If anything is a box it is Stuy Town

50% after tax rather committed to housing expense is rather high.

and speaking of interest rates, if you think rates are going to be rising soon, I strngl advise you to read Krugman's op-ed piece today in the NY Times.

No petr, you never attack people. You're so short-sighted you don't see that it's quite evident YOU have the vested interest in pumping RE values (falsely, yes). And then attack a job you think I have (still not sure why you think I work in insurance, but keep trying). As for Williamsburg, as I've said countless times, it's definitely not roses for the RE market there (or anywhere in the city for that matter, including your precious LES), but you love to go for the dramatic and obnoxious in your "descriptions." It's entertaining, but probably not in the way you think it is.

Actually, petrzitz, rentals are great: everything that in a co-op or condo you have to PAY the super & staff to do, they do for free here. Take away moving boxes, fix appliances, leaks, etc.

I LOVE RENTING!

That, plus it only costs $3,600 a month, when at $1,200 psf to buy it would cost $1.44 million to buy.

That is NOT the case in the rest of the country, where prices have been falling a lot more than here. Miami is dead cheap right now, if you're interested.

Pres, I don't think anyone here said rates will rise soon, but our dear pathological friend petr opined that when rates do rise, it'll mean people will be "priced out forever." Unlikely.

bjw2013 just said rates will rise half an hour ago.

nice fuzzy numbers there steve...sureeeeeeeee

and i said that rising rates means more difficult affordability but BJW doesnt know how to reach and jsut likes to attack people

and when rates do rise BJW it will mean alot of people will be priced out. It doesnt necessarily mean prices will rise or fall. Just that the cost to borrow will become more expensive. You tool

The discovery of water on the Moon will really sink Manhattan prices. I heard H and H is already opening up a stand. No reason for Wall Streeters and foreigners to buy here when they can get land, water, bagels and cream cheese over there.

What's fuzzy about this:

$1,200 psf x 1,200 sf = $1.44 million.

"It doesnt necessarily mean prices will rise or fall."

When interest rates go up, prices go down. Remember that, petrzitz. Same thing that happens with bond prices (and the price of everything else).

This is agreat development as on the moon AboutReady will be 150 pounds lighter, Steve could be the first poof on the moon, and BJW cvould finally live in a place without gangs and hexcyclomethane contamination.

Steve you are completely wrong "When interest rates go up, prices go down." there may be a correlation but no direct relationship. You are a tool.

Yeah Steve. Way to be positive, dude!!!

If you think positive thoughts, you will be successful.

And, Peter -- yeah, for you. Positive thoughts, too. Prices will rise. Hurray for positive thinking.

See, if you only think about yourself, you can be positive all the time.

"Today's Housing Numbers Do Not Tell Us Anything About The Economy"

"() the only people helped out by the sales of existing homes at low prices are real estate agents and banks collecting fees on new mortgages."

"The only legitimately good news in today's home sales numbers is the decline of overhanging housing inventory to seven months"

http://www.businessinsider.com/todays-housing-numbers-do-not-tell-us-anything-about-the-economy-2009-11

"there may be a correlation but no direct relationship. You are a tool."

Oxford: "correlation: a mutual relationship of interdependence between two or more things."

I see. A correlation but no relationship.

Oh petrfitz, you are such a tool!

Skinny, I'm extremely positive.

Positive that prices still have far to fall.

Steve, I'm beginning to doubt your positive attidude.

You didn't use any exclamation points in your last post!

Remember: focus on the positive.

Emotional judgements aside, prior history shows rents bottom out aprroximately 2 years after the recession is over. I the end of the recession was in Sept. 2009, then the rents should trough in Sept. 2011. I assume a similar dynamic will take place with selling prices. The above, however, is based on US as a whole with individual markets subject to their own variations.

Can't help but respond to the call for positivism. There is too much 'positive' emotion out there already; some know it as the spin put on by the real estate industry (I include here sellers, landlords, banks, brokers, etc.). Although there is definitely a degree of negativism on this site, it nonetheless offers the invaluable role of being the 'devil's advocate' -- making us all challenege our own thoughts and looking more deeply into the maze of NYC real estate. Evene though I agree that from time time there is some ax grinding going on here, SE remains an important venue that can be used for making real estate decisions.

Positivism? We talking Skinner here?

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20091122/FREE/311229991

There have been 150 sales so far this year in the financial district. At that pace, it will take up to five years to absorb the inventory, according to Kelly Mack, president of Corcoran Sunshine Marketing Group. Recent Crain's research shows there are at least 1,400 units there that are either for sale or about to enter the market.
...
Unless both prices and sales volumes pick up considerably, more developers are expected to follow his lead and that of landlords in other markets around the country, where the residential real estate crash hit long before it did here. Mr. Gollinger said he has done $500 million worth of auction sales within the past 12 months throughout Florida and California, and in cities including Chicago and Boston.

“New York was the last to get hit,” says Andrew Gerringer, managing director for Prudential Douglas Elliman development marketing group. “We are surrounded by auctions in Boston and New Jersey.”

AR - where are your !!!'s?

"bjw2013 just said rates will rise half an hour ago."

Where? Can you share some of those doobies?

"and when rates do rise BJW it will mean alot of people will be priced out. It doesnt necessarily mean prices will rise or fall. Just that the cost to borrow will become more expensive. You tool"

You can't follow simple logic? When rates increase and people are "priced out", sellers will need to keep their prices down in order to sell.

Steve you are completely wrong that higher rates = lower prices. Do you want to take it back before I make you look like the tool you are. Do you want to think about your statement?

Go for it - how in this economy, is the average buyer going to suddenly scrounge up more money to buy a home? Let's hear it, genius.

How did I miss this? I don't care about prices up or down, inventory up or down, affordability up or down.

What I like is a good fight with an entitled toilet whore. Looks like petrfitz has picked up on some of these nice points.

So, let me get this straight, aboutready has more stories about her toilet than any NYer, she wants money from her landlord even though there have been no problems with her landlord (who was gracious enough to even replace her toilet seat that SHE broke), she doesn't work, she got a free education at an Ivy League school but gives nothing back to society, she doesn't do charitable work, she complains about the AMT (tax) that her husband pays but she wants more money to go to the poor (who does it come from, not toilet lady), she tells you about her 230 pound former frame AND about her addiction to McDonalds but then doesn't want anyone else to mention it or see causation, she throws out names of psychologists as if psychology has any use unless you get a PhD (and barely at that) and is basically otherwise a MRS, she has only one child and still wants to control this child for the rest of her life, ... oh, lastly, what got me interested, she's a Yale educated lady who uses the word "irregardless".

Oh, but it's all ok, she's a limousine liberal .... er, I mean woman of the people. StuyTown's very own Evita. Maybe more like Tammy Faye

ps - I'm not responsible for any nasty words, aboutready says I'm only 15.

gee. i can't imagine that today's interest rates are unusual in the slightest. what with the fed buying shitloads of rmbs's to keep the market pumped. and keeping the target rate at about zero.

no, it won't affect the market in the slightest if the fed has to raise rates or discontinue its shopping spree. really?

when you think about the dollar, think about oil prices. think about inflation/deflation and why the US and others may have wanted the oil/gasoline issue to affect the value of the dollar. and think about why now the powers that be may be overwhelmingly happy to have a bit of inflation. this is all very complicated.

whoops, I shouldn't say lastly.

There's more ... for another time

hfscomm1, you're one of those people who not only bring nothing to the table, but you run off with the entrees, cutlery, tableware, chairs, and perhaps a couple of table legs, aren't you?

Hfs. Dude it's thread #69!!!!!!!!!

hfscomm lies, repeatedly and extremely. distorts. and calls me a liar. funny that. hfs, you've become a total caricature of yourself. you took one comment that i made, which i said was sarcasm, and you then told me that i lie.

now you only produce lies and exaggerations. you are happy with your limited purpose in life? i'm not reading you, at all. but i can tell what you're spewing by the responses of others. can't you sense how welcome you are?

How's the green shoot treating all you housing bears?

New 52 week closing highs on the Dow.

If there's no double dip, then the path of least resistance is up.

I "distort" you being a liar? Seems like a bit of a nuanced statement. Why equivocate?

skinner.

You want double dip...

There you go...

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=SHIAX#chart4:symbol=shiax;range=2y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
(the housing bears call this a useless indicator)

Junk yield has fallen over 60% and it isn't letting up one bit.

abouttoiletwhore, should I take from your new statements that you aren't having fun with me like you said you were last week?

of course i'm having fun with you. you didn't get the skinner reference i take it.

good lord you're stupid.

and now, spew away. off the radar. just try hard not to lie and distort, OK? not good for the soul.

Ericho, I never said equity mkts rising did not benefit me. I just said NYC re is shits and by extension ph is diahhrea.

In the history of our beloved country, has one person ever stood for the unique combination of toilet, welfare and limousine better than aboutready? (throw in The Simpson's Principal Skinner too if you want)

"You wont see "significantly lower prices" in the next few years. You will see price increase and sooner than you think. Then you will see finance rates go up and you will be even more priced out....forever."

Good to see Perfitz is still a moron....

Home buyers' credit is about to expire and the little pick-up in activity that we saw nationwide is driven by last-minute buyers. Unless this program is renewed, there is an increased likelyhood of an additional dip in prices. Most people outside the real estate and banking industry seem unaware of the 'extend-and-pretend' game that is going on in the commercial real estate sector. Basically US banks are doing largely what their counterparts in Japan did a few years back. We all know how that worked out. More specifically to NYC, there is much real estate coming on line + with the exception of Goldman Sucks bonuses will be low. There will be hiring in 2010, but it it will be only in 2011 that Wall Street will see total compensation resempling the pre-crisis levels. My money is on more downside to NYC real estate prices.

hfscomm1: "she's a Yale educated lady" I call bullshit. Are you sure?

yale, or lady?

Just for yucks, let's compare this to the Cash for Clunkers incentive:

"According to an Edmunds.com study released October 28, the program actually cost Americans nearly $20,000 more per car than the maximum rebate. Only 125,000 of the 690,000 purchases would not have been made without the incentives". But what I take away from this is that about 18% of sales were due to the stimulus. Has someone run the numbers and seen what happens to number of total home sales if 18% of the sales with the $8,000 tax credit went away? I couldn't get a quick answer on the number of sales made with the credit; anyone have it?

_________________________

David Goldsmith
DG Neary Realty Ltd.

calculated risk had the analysis, i'll try and find it.

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/09/pending-home-sales-increase-in-august.html

NAR estimates that about 1.8 to 2.0 million first-time buyers will take advantage of the $8,000 tax credit this year, with approximately 350,000 additional sales that would not have taken place without the credit.

but that was prior to the extension of the credit.

Manhattan Inventory Now Less that 9000 Again!!!

http://www.urbandigs.com/

Newman
about 14 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse hfscomm1: "she's a Yale educated lady" I call bullshit. Are you sure?

aboutready
about 14 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse yale, or lady?

She has claimed both. She's been known to lie about some things aka "sarcasm"

"Steve you are completely wrong that higher rates = lower prices. Do you want to take it back before I make you look like the tool you are. Do you want to think about your statement?"

No.

Go ahead, make me look like a "tool". You're getting worse than LICC.

30 Yrs - great comparison because in actuality, the cash for clunkers program was derrived the home buyer credit program. NAR and the Auto industry share the same PR agency.

Steve what happens when you have higher rates and much higher financing availability? Meaning more funds are available for financing at slightly higher rates but more people can borrow more money with less qualification???? More people can buy and compete for choice properties.

Does the higher rates in this case automatically mean lower prices?

Please explain Steve how in this case higher rates = lower prices?

Steve you tool please answer

Steve are you just accepting your tool status? Funny how you NEVER respond when you are proven WRONG

"Meaning more funds are available for financing at slightly higher rates"

Well done, pterozitz. "Slightly" higher rates? Please - we're talking about at least a point or two here (and almost certainly more in the long run), which would dramatically reduce a buyer's purchasing power. What do you think happens then? Price increases? You're utterly clueless.

Sorry petrzitz, but I'm not at your beck and call, and I don't get posts sent to my blackberry.

No I don't accept your scenario. People are approved for mortgages based on their PITI ratio - increase any of the PITI factors, and the price must fall in order for the housing expense / income ratio to remain.

Basic maths, basic economics, basic finance. Sorry, you bad.

The 2 biggest tools on SE! You both are morons. If ther was ever a time where we can see rising rates and rising sales prices it is over the next few years. We now have 2 years of buyers not getting loans due to the credit crisis. We now have historically low financing rates. We now have sales prices dramatically depressed and near botoo.

When the credit starts to thaw we will see rising interest rates (gradually controlled by the FED), we will see more people getting loand and we will see rising sales prices.

You two are just too much of tools who want to be right all the time to ever admit that you were wrong.

Steve you are the biggest tool ask anyone who knows economics and they will tell you there is a thing called Supply and Demand. You are wrong that rising interest rates ALWAYS equals decrease in sales price.

TOOL

BJW is always wrong like buying at the top of the market in the gang infested toxic wasteland epicenter of the RE crisis Williamsburg!

Steve you are COMPLETLEY wrong - just admit it you poof. You even contradicted yourself previously you said that interest rates were the only factor in decreasing sales prices now you back track and say interest rates AND expense to income ratios are a factor. What a TOOL. You just proved yourself wrong!

Financing Availability will play a HUGE role in sales prices over the next few years possibly even more so than interest rates alone!

What about the buyer who has not been able to buy over the past 2-3 years because of lack of available credit. He has saved and save3d over those 3 years, now he can afford to pay a higher interest rate because he has more cash in the bank. But he cant borrow at lower rates with low availability, but when rates go up and availability goes up he and a ton of other people like himself can now buy.

Hence rising interest rates and rising sales prices. TOOLS!!!!!!!

Oh zitz, you've officially gone of the LES edge! Just because you can't figure out how to make money in this real estate market, don't blame us.

And certainly I'm immune to name-calling.

pterozitz, you always have to resort to the same old BS to avoid facing the truth, huh? You apparently have no understanding of purchasing power and its effect on pricing. For this holiday, I am quite thankful you dislike Williamsburg. The further you stay away from my neighborhood, the better. How's that overnight doubling of your money on Pitt St working out?

complete f ing tools

steve and bjw admit that you were wrong and the people on this board will have a little respect for you...not much but a little