1st time buyer - questions on negotiation & making offer

How much is the place listed for?

If it's more than $500K, this is an awful lot of nickel-and-diming. If I were the developer I'd reject your offer just because you were being such a pain in the ass.

wolf... try acting like it. FYI, get a borker, a legit one w/ some reputation, show some deets on your ability to close quickly. make up some crap about how you need to close by X, send out 20 bids (all Lowballz w/ no hair on it)... then stand back. In a buyer's mkt, you are not paying the 3%... the seller is....

Trust me, I've been on here for like 1 yr...maybe 1.3yr... i've had girlfriends that lasted less than that... speaking of which...where is that FB acct?

List is in the 700s. Have plenty of money in bank, good job, great credit, etc. so would think we'd be good residents. Will hire a real estate lawyer to handle contract and have hired other experts as needed, but just doesn't seem worth it to use broker when I can probably save $10-15k by handling the negotiation myself, and when I know exactly what unit and what building I want to buy in.

What % of the bldg is sold? If the developer is sitting on hundreds of units, it would certainly be worth his while to accept below ask...most are. Have there been closings already or is bldg not complete?

Wolff - It sounds like you really want this unit. Is the ppsf higher because it's on a higher floor, or is a better unit in some way? w67th's advice is a great way to get a good deal, but it won't necessarily get you the place you want. And Matt is right - too much nickel & diming can turn a developer off.

My suggestion - offer full asking price less 2.5%, and ask for them to pay their closing costs (xfer taxes and seller's attorney). Do NOT ask them to pay your mortgage tax or attorney. Do not ask them to pay your common charges for any period of time.

Whatever you do, do it soon. And be polite. And let us know what happens.

Tina
(Brooklyn broker)

WTF? Good deal is not the unit you want. Learn to fn read. The dude is bypassing a buyer broker for 2.5%. R u reading it in chinese, or is reading notrequired for a borker in bk? Holy mfker.

I wouldn't hire you to walk my dog. Fn a.

Take the time to read this thread; it can only help:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/8657-negotiating-better-fundamentals-of-effective-negotiating

Whatever you do, don't lose sight of the fact that you don't HAVE to get this apartment. If it works out, fine. But if not, an even better one may come along soon enough for even less. Try to keep feelings of urgency at bay. Rewatch Godfather Part II and learn how to handle yourself from Michael Coreleone.

Kill your brother by sending him out fishing with your hitman on Lake Tahoe?

RIght. And then watch him deal with the senator. THAT is keeping your cool.

"all other units (albeit smaller) have went for list." Says who? The broker?? S/he is lying. Based on closed comps? So what, those deals were made months ago. Did the broker see that report that prices fell 10% in the 4th quarter?

"broker came back telling us there was another offer and that their counter was list." Here is lie number 2 and number 3. Never heard that one before. In this market, an offer at list is not an offer, it is an acceptance of the seller's offer. The broker wouldn't still be talking to you if someone was paying full price. Does the broker think you are going to bid above ask?

As Kylewest says, don't get fixated on apartments. I have bid on lots of them. I would tell the broker you have basically no more room in the budget other than that money you were saving for a trip to Europe, and look elsewhere without putting more money on the table.

Wolf - Most posters here are brokers so few will tell you not to use one. I personally though had positive experiences going it alone. Other experiences may be different.

Is this the only apartment that you and your wife can be happy living in? If not, I would follow Kyle's advice and play a bit of hardball. Stress that there are other units you like and are considering. Be honest that you plan to bid on other apartments just as they plan to show this unit to other prospects.

If you can absolutely get a mortgage (which not everyone can these days), they shouldn't let you go. I wouldn't worry about "nickel and dining" a developer.

Good luck and keep us posted!

After 50 open houses, my partner and I found the PERFECT apartment with incredible preserved views, great layout, blah blah. It was terribly overpriced. No deal was had. We were a little crushed, but had a strategy and specific budget going into the negotiations and we adhered to them scrupulously. No broker talk swayed us or surprised us--we were ready for it all and had strategized how to respond but alas we were too far apart.

Well, another 25 open houses later, we found the next PERFECT apartment for 35% less which left us a ton of money in our budget to renovate and for the next 30 years we have MUCH more manageable payments.

Lesson: There are a lot of "perfect" places. Know what YOU want to end up paying and what the place is worth to you BEFORE the broker babble begins. Once you know yourself, it is like being nearly impervious to the broker babble because you control the game. Once you start changing your game plan and what you'll spend based on things like "Oh, there's a full price offer," and "There is no room for negotiations down from ask," you have all but lost.

If you are not a seasoned, skilled, practiced negotiator, this process can eat you alive. Much wisdom in the above-linked thread worth reading.

"Well, another 25 open houses later, we found the next PERFECT apartment for 35% less which left us a ton of money in our budget to renovate and for the next 30 years we have MUCH more manageable payments. "

congrats, kw.

yes, it can be hard if you have very specific needs. I feel lucky that I'm not tied to needing something specific, and that will save me money long term, but nice to know that even folks with specific wants can save tons of dough by playing it right and not buying the broker babble.

wolff009- if you are buying in a new development make sure you find out EXACTLY what percentage of the total units are sold and closed. I find it a little far fetched that as soon as you put your offer in, at only 5 percent below ask, that another one suddenly appears.. I would look up in Acris the most recent closed ppsf for units and bid according to what you are comfortable with and seems reasonable.

Wolf - Most posters here are brokers -

Scoots, what the hell have you been smoking? Most people on here are NOT brokers; stick around, you've got a lot to learn.

Wolf: I am with those who say the broker is being untruthful. An offer submitted immediately after yours seems suspicious, especially in this market. My suggestion is to assume that it is bullshit. Also the 'fact' (if it is a fact) that other units sold at list may be because they sold when prices were higher or may simply be another lie. Finally, it would help your cause if you were not 'married' to this apartment. Make your offer, be polite but firm, and give them a deadline. If they decline, walk. You may be surprised with a follow up call in a month or so when the apartment 'suddenly' becomes available. By the way, if this does happen, then you will probably be in a position to really lowball them. Good luck and please keep us posted. Would be interested in learning how things worked out.

wolff, kylewest's advice here is best, I think. Determine what you're comfortable paying and stick to it. I'm surprised that new development is going for ask anywhere, but it may just be that the asks are reasonable (unusual, but it happens), so I wouldn't be fixated on x% off list - it's not a good principle in general. To add to kyle's anecdote, I found a fantastic 2BR co-op in Nolita, end of 2007, which was priced well enough (especially considering how strong the market was at the time). I bid about 3% under ask, was told by the broker that she had drastically better offers, so reluctantly upped to full ask when a best-and-final deadline was imposed (remember those?). It eventually went for 8% over ask, and while I was a bit upset I lost out, I ended up with an equally great place for much less and am quite happy. Even if you think "this is the one," there will eventually be others.

Yes ---- kyle is right.
And I personally want to thank him because again I've been having a hard time disconnecting my sorry ass from SE but his mention of Godfather 2 is inspirational ----- think I'll rewatch it tonight ----
Thanks, kyle

"we found the next PERFECT apartment for 35% less which left us a ton of money in our budget to renovate and for the next 30 years we have MUCH more manageable payments."

I'm guessing that anyone who can afford to BUY their home in New York City doesn't -- and most certainly SHOULDN'T -- need to rely on "tips" just to make ends meet.

Am I right?

no

kylewest's thread is one of the classics on SE.

Read it!

It has certainly helped me in my own negotiating.

"WTF? Good deal is not the unit you want. Learn to fn read. The dude is bypassing a buyer broker for 2.5%. R u reading it in chinese, or is reading notrequired for a borker in bk? Holy mfker."

W67th,
For someone that hates broker as much as you do, i'm shocked by your response.