be@Schermerhorn

Just wanted to throw in a word and suggest that anyone eying Toren/Oro/Be@ also look at Belltel. It doesn't have the smaller, sub-400k units Be@ does, but for those eying bigger spaces, it's comparably priced, which is why I bought there after looking at all four options. It has drawbacks (want windows in your bedroom? try elsewhere), but also has some key advantages -- including the tax abatement, developers willing to bargain on prices, and reasonable common charges (mine are 55 cents/sq foot).

Dmar, I'm not sure how accurate this information is listed on Street Easy. Do you honestly beleive that their developers/sales agents are constantly updating this information every day or week? Not sure, I've always been very suspicious.

Either way, I think 42% is very good (if true) so far. I mean we're talking about almost 2 months with sales. Yes, it's been around for 2 years, but we can't count that since there were other reasons for that failure.

Regarding tax abatement, I feel positive that this building will get it too. It wouldn't make sense if they had been rejected because I don't how their place is any different than their competitors Toren/Oro/BellTel/Fort Greene applying for this exemption?

Let's just say..their tax abatement had been approved. You had mentioned about closing costs..and I'm just curious at what cost/% do you want their developers to pay especially if this place is listed already at a lower asking price than others?

If you take a look at a Toren/Oro, it might seem like you're getting a better deal b/c of their longer tax abatement (guaranteed), more ameneties *available* and closing costs to be partially paid by your developer, but I guess at the end of the day, are you really buying your place at the right price? Isn't that what is important? The total price you're paying affects your downpayment and mortgage payment.

Remember, when it comes down to the common charges/fees, taxes, etc,. these are not fixed as you know, but since I'm sure that most of these places won't tell you their projected rates.....but I can almost bet that your place with all of these 'additional' ameneties/options willl impact your monthly bill.

Read this article. It was written a long time ago, but I still believe that it will continue to apply regardless of the economy situation. http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/low-fees-for-new-condos-think-again

Just wanted to explain my reference to the article. These places like Oro/Toren are probably going to offer more luxury services, but there will be a price to pay for it.....It's a scam in disguise.

Actually Oro recently lowered their monthly common charges... As for closing costs, I wanted more covered than just the transfer taxes and sponsor attorney fees. I'm sure since it was a north facing one bedroom they were not willing to budge since those are the lines that are selling fast. As I said, in Williamsburg a couple of the waterfront condos are willing to cover my closing costs... so even though they cost about $50 more per sq ft than the unit in Schermerhorn I was looking at, the upfront costs are similar for me so obviously the decision to go negotiate with the Williamsburg condos made a hell of a lot more sense. Better view, better area, 25 year tax abatement, better amenities at similar common charges. For a while I though Schermerhorn was a great deal since it had some major price chopping, but in reality after Toren's price cut to the $600 per sq ft range I realized that was just the market for Dobro. Schermerhorn is just a little cheaper because the units are smaller though decently laid out. And for what you Think you save in common charges over the years, you'll pay in taxes in 15 instead of 25 years. You're looking at an extra $6,000-10,000 depending on size yearly without the abatement. I also just fear how well the building will sell once the lower prices units move, as like I've said no W/D will make the 2 BR's harder to sell to families.

Just visited the building last week - though small, their layouts are very functional. agent informed me they just needed 3 more contracts to start closings with the preferred lenders (no waiting for the 50% mark). I'd say the building's only plus at the moment is the location (and potential increase in value due to atlantic terminal/stadium complex and fulton mall revamp). A big minus for me was lack of ventilation in both the bathrooms and the kitchen - air just gets recycled back into the apartment. Though i suppose most people looking to buy in that area wouldn't be cooking at home, so that's ok.

BklynChick - check out some lines with kitchen windows (I think higher up A line). That way, you can air out after cooking quickly. As for windowed bathrooms, that's tough for any new development nowadays. I would be surprised if be@schermerhorn did not even have a vent (that is connected to the outside) in the bathroom; I think that would amount to a building code violation.

dmar - Care to share a link to the unit/building at billyburg?

sorry i dont cook much but why do you need kitchen windows don't the ducts suck away most of the air?

Just to clear up the exhaust issue, all of the bathrooms have exhaust that is vented to the roof. This is a NYC DOB code requirement. This kitchen exhaust is recirculated via an exhaust in the microwave unit. This is very common in high rise buildings because the space vented kitchen exhausts would take up in a building out weighs the benefits to developers. The lack of a fully vented kitchen should not be that big of an issue. If there was a viking range then there would be a exhaust issue.

Closings - for those that have taken the plunge - i have heard that closing will not be starting till October. I don't believe that offering plan has been made effective by the AG. Anyone heard different?

It looks like most of the 2 bed/2 bath apartments in the C line have sold. These are family or starter family apartments. So it looks like there is going to be a blend of of singles, couples, starter families and small families.

There is lots of washer/dryer talk. Has anyone noticed if the in unit washer/dryers at Oro/Toren are vented?

What do the gyms at Oro/Toren have that Be@ does not? Is is anything major that can not be purchased by the condo board after people start moving in?

bklivin the "gym" is just a small room with a few treadmills (around 10?) and machines... On the bright side the Dodge YMCA is down the street, but that's like $60+ a month. I was unable to get a decent discount on a 26th floor 1 BR because I guess the F, G, and H lines were selling fast. the sponsors final offer was around $685 per sq ft and transfer taxes/attorney fees. I asked for all closing costs covered.

Compared on paper to:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/494317-condo-22-n-6th-st-williamsburg-brooklyn
The Edge which has ridiculous prices, however before I was committing to Schermerhorn I checked out all Brooklyn condos with city views. If you check out any of the Edge threads they're long overdue for the price carnage DoBro has already endured. You can negotiate 10-15% off the price, and the sales agent told me a lower unit on that same line sold for $30k less and All closing costs covered. That comes out to $735 per sq ft, with an amazing waterfront city view (though it'll be obstructed in 5-7 years with Edge Phase 2), 10x the amenities for only 7 cents more per sq ft, high quality finishes, and a 25 year tax abatement. I didn't bid on this unit but this is just an example of why I decided to wait a little longer before I buy. Just my personal opinion but with GDP coming out today at 2.4% which was slightly below consensus confirming a sharp slowdown in the recovery, a lack of job creation, and soo many foreclosures on the horizon... I plan on waiting 4-6 months for Williamsburg price chopping unless I know for sure I'm getting a great deal. I just didn't feel that way with Schermerhorn. I think once Toren had those major price cuts a few months ago, I just didn't see Schermerhorn as a solid deal anymore.

dmar - I'm not so convinced that Edge has superior value or is a significantly better place to live than Be@Schermerhorn as you claim, but it sounds like you are assuming that when Edge cuts prices, they will continue to pay all closing costs. I hope your strategy works out but don't be surprised if their attitude towards closing costs changes after the price cut.

Be@'s value proposition is fundamentally based on the lenders having been paid off at significantly below par. Other developers have begrudgingly lowered their prices to remain competitive and is partly made possible because early movers overpaid. You need to also evaluate whether the rate of opportunity creation vs. expiration lies in your favor in waiting. Who knows, they might try to wait things out if they can - Wall Street bonuses this year might end up surprising people. And Be@ might be sold out by then. In the end, I personally wouldn't sweat the small stuff, i.e. a few grand of closing costs; people make real money picking the right investment, not haggling over closing costs...

I have been watching this one. I just could not see a lot of resale value for this place. I have been hearing all these great things about downtown Brooklyn. But the fact is that as long as the government agencies are here to stay. The neighborhood will not change much. The court will always be here. The disability office, the welfare office, HRA, etc. etc. As long as there are dirt poor neighborhoods in Brooklyn, their residents will travel here for services. The dividing line used to be Court/Atlantic, for good reasons.

The government buildings won't make a difference. Housing prices shot up in Boerum Hill right next to the housing projects. You're not going to loose money on your investment. Fulton Mall won't be the same in about 10 years time. H & M is already getting ready to move in there next year I think and Apple has been eying downtown Brooklyn for a new store. You have a lot of transportation options close by too.

I just went into contract on the waterfront in Williamsburg for only $15 more per sq ft compared to what Be@ offered. Better view, area, etc aside, I obtained triple the discount offered by Be@ including a closing cost credit so the upfront money required was the same. I'm posting this for anyone who is considering purchasing on the higher floors. Unless you're getting $600 per sq ft, you can get more for your money.

Does anyone know where Be@schermerhorn is in the selling and closing process - when is it for instance likely to get information on actual selling prices, when can buyers expect to start moving in and so on?

@dmar: Seems like you got a good deal, what particular building in W'burg did you buy into?

Thanks
Pretzel

Two Northside Piers- it's currently one of two developments on the northern Williamsburg waterfront. The other being The Edge which is literally right next door. 2 NSP is priced a little bit better than The Edge but the consensus on the message boards here is the Edge is slightly better quality. To me the most important things were view, location, and price. Their online listings compared to Be@ is very expensive, however both places in Williamsburg are essentially giving 10%+ discounts because of the ridiculous oversupply in the area and lack of demand (35% sold each in the new towers after 2 years of little price cutting). I was disappointed with the 4% discount Schermerhorn was remaining firm about, so before I accepted their offer I visited Williamsburg condos just to be sure. And wow am I glad I did! I thought I wouldn't be able to afford a unit there since online they are $800+ per sq ft. Some lines in both buildings will have partially obstructed city views in 5-7 years due to additional phases being built; but truth be told in 2 NSP the view was impacted far less. These future obstructed lines were listed around $730-$800 per sq ft. Take 10% off that, and you're looking at now $657-720 per sq ft. Now consider these buildings have nice views, amazing pools, piers, etc, and my common charges are actually 9 cents less per sq ft than Schermerhorn... add an in unit W/D and a 25 year tax abatement, and the decision was so easy.

Here are some potential caveats to the decision to buy there. There is already a huge amount of new housing supply in Williamsburg, and even more on the way; similar to what Oro, Toren, Forte, and Schermerhorn did to the downtown Brooklyn area (and obviously 2 had financial issues). One more waterfront condo, the Domino factory, was recently approved by the city and will probably be around in 3-5 years. Northside Piers is building a 3rd tower in 5 years, and the Edge will too in 5-7 years. So really I'm buying now because I plan on living there for a decade; if you resell anytime sooner you'll have to compete with new inventory. It's incredibly hard for new developments to get a tax abatement from the city though, so to me that is a huge reason why I'm okay with purchasing now.
Another caveat is The Edge just started closing a week ago, and most buyers are waiting for a big round of price cuts (they had a very small one earlier in the summer). 2 NSP will start closing in October, and who knows if the economy just sputters along for the next year or two I have a hard time imagining no price cuts to this whole area. However to me since I got a solid price on one of the few remaining 1 BR that I liked and could obtain for around 450k, I pulled the trigger because I don't want to wait 3-5 more years to live in a Brooklyn condo with nice city views.

Wow I wrote a lot, I guess that's my purchasing decision story hope it helps. Again, I think Be@ is good value if you get a unit for $600 per sq ft (and only because of its location- the lack of W/D and taxes could be a deal breaker in the future especially when compared to Toren)

"the Domino factory, was recently approved by the city and will probably be around in 3-5 years. Northside Piers is building a 3rd tower in 5 years, and the Edge will too in 5-7 years."

re_guru, Domino has stated they won't be done until 2021 at the earliest. I don't believe NSP or the Edge have committed to a 3rd tower yet, even though their original plans called for those. I'd guess they're on hold for at least that long and may well never get built given the inventory that's sitting around next door.

bjw2103 I really hope you're right, but I recently looked over the offering plan for 2 NSP and it clearly outlines a third tower. The sales agents just say 5 years, but I'd take that with a grain of salt since the Edge was supposed to start closing a long time ago and kept pushing the date back. Could be much longer, but it'd behoove them to not capitalize on that land sometime in the distant future. Also Domino won't be finished till sometime in the next decade, but they being construction late next year and I assume they'll sell in phases.

I would probably think twice about purchasing a place at Williamsburg. I read this article which was written 8 months ago and it does appear that their condos are more than likely to become rent control..I guess this means that you're going to half of the owners (who purchased a unit) then the rest of the place is going to be rental allowed?

I think Schermerhorn is more committed to make it less likely for the building to become 'rental'later since you actually need permission to do so in the future.

I know because I've seen it written on document before you can sign off...

Although, yes, you're getting a better view, washer/dryer, and a longer tax abatement, etc., I still find it very hard for someone to sacrifice more $$$ per square feet unless you have it.

How about location? Williamsburg is nice, but it doesn't have that many options to get there without transferring...

And let's be frank....all those MTA cuts happening lately with their services, etc. I wouldn't be too surprise if they shut a line down which affects their area...

I only say this because Williamsburg has been sort of up and down kind of area, but don't you want to invest your money in an area where you know your next door neighbor's condo has dropped 60% in last couple of months....It just seems more risky.

Schermerhorn is in a much better position for the future since you probably all know that a new stadium is getting built like 4 blocks away from it, plus it's near the shopping district of Brooklyn etc. If Lebron had signed with the future Brooklyn Nets, then this would have boosted all the prices around that hood...

That's my two cent.

oops...I meant to say I "know" Schermerhorn is more committed to make it less likely for the building to become 'rental'later since you actually need permission to do so in the future", not I think...

Doh...I did it again. to be clear, you do not want to invest your money in an area where you know your next door neighbor's condo has dropped 60% in last couple of months....It just seems more risky.

dmar...whered you end up? what view did you end up with (brooklyn or manhattan south or north or north to lic etc)...

i think comparing williamsburg to downtown brooklyn is strange. WB is totally amenity heavy, and there's no project, flatbush avenue, bad stores, etc... there. downtown brooklyn is going to always be kinda gross. the edge in particular is right next to a park including a brand new childrens' area and in way safer and nicer hood.

I only go to Billyburg to go to Lugers so I don't particularly know the area well but overall it seems fine. It definitely doesn't seem as gritty as downtown Brooklyn and seems less dense and perhaps less diverse. Limitations in subway transportation prevented me from ever considering it as an equal to downtown, but I suppose many buildings are comparable and should be compared against as they are both up-and-coming areas progressively becoming younger and more hip. But if I have to say the obvious - ultimately, in new constructions, it matters not what you think individually (which seems to be influenced by amenities, views, etc.), it only matters what the market thinks and whether the building is successfully sold as a whole. You may have gotten a great deal, but if you are one of few holding on to that deal, and the building lacks the critical mass or momentum, it is a financially perilous situation to be in.

As for be@schermerhorn, according to NYT, it seems to continue to do well, with accepted offer count at 140 (with 90+ formalized via contract). Available here and relevant portions copied and pasted below: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/realestate/22cov.html

At be@schermerhorn, a 246-unit condo in downtown Brooklyn that stood unfinished and vacant for most of 2009, a new owner started selling apartments in the building three months ago, after deciding to broaden the target audience of buyers and also creating amenities like storage space and a roof deck.

"We retooled the project to what we think fits the market today," said Michael Phillips, the creative director of Jamestown Properties, an original investor that has now taken over both the building and the troubled mortgage of the developer, SDS Procida. The changes that Jamestown made were "less about grand gestures and more about sensitivity to consumer interest," Mr. Phillips said. "Maybe in the last economy, big, glossy marketing and overpromising was acceptable, but that’s really not relevant for buyers today."

In early 2009 the project went over budget, lenders cut off financing, construction stopped and contractors put liens on the property. Curbed.com dubbed it a "zombie building," and when given the chance most of the 40 buyers took their deposits and ran.

Jamestown assumed control in late 2009 and decided that the original marketing plan aimed at 20-somethings was too limited. "We wanted to cast a wider net and appeal to young families and empty-nesters and maybe be a little less trendy," Mr. Phillips said.

The first brochures had pronounced, "be@ is not just an address, it’s an attitude," and had shown beautiful young people dining out or shooting pool. New marketing materials promise "clean styling and attractive pricing," and feature a child reaching for a juice box at a local market and an older gentleman leaving the building with his dog.

Inside the building, bold design colors were traded for more neutral ones; part of the parking garage was converted to 60 storage units; and six private roof cabanas were turned into a common roof deck. Jamestown also cut prices by 25 percent and obtained approval for loans through the Federal Housing Administration to help buyers get financing. After three months back on the market, they have about 140 accepted offers.

Tarsha Carvey and her partner, Iris Mulero, stuck with the building, despite being offered three chances to cancel their 2009 contract for a one-bedroom for under $400,000. "I knew that 80 percent of the people were pulling out," said Ms. Carvey, who works as an executive assistant at Nickelodeon, "but I don’t like to follow the crowd." The couple now are looking at a larger one-bedroom with a home office for the same price, with the building’s blessing. "The whole energy of the building now is very classy," she said, "and it’s a lot more high-end than I ever expected it to be."

The storage units and the roof deck were big selling points for Andon George and Paula McCreedy, who are nearly empty-nesters, as their son, Alex, is a recent college graduate. They are in contract for a two-bedroom for $542,000, and they also bought a storage unit "for all the records and files that one accumulates over a lifetime," said Mr. George, who is an architect. The deck, with its expansive harbor and city views, helped them imagine living beyond the walls of their apartment, he added, because "we can have people over for dinner and start with a drink on the roof."

re_guru-which line in NSP did you end up purchasing?

dmar-which building did you end up purchasing in?

NYCRayz-can you cite the article about the rentals? Most developers can rent out SOME (but not all units) to buy them time while waiting to sell. If/when they eventually sell all the units, it will not have a big effect on resale. I know NSP1 rented out units, but they are almost done selling (90%+ sold). Isn't Toren doing that now? Also, I disagree with your statement below.

"Schermerhorn is in a much better position for the future since you probably all know that a new stadium is getting built like 4 blocks away from it, plus it's near the shopping district of Brooklyn etc. If Lebron had signed with the future Brooklyn Nets, then this would have boosted all the prices around that hood"

Has Madison Square Garden made the area around it more pricey than Soho? Amenities like nice restaurants, stores, decent schools, art galleries, grocery stores make a neighborhood more expensive. I agree with wisco on his/her points. The Edge/NSP2/80 Met offer better value for the $$$ compared to be@ if you factor in their 25 year tax abatements and if you look at the apartments from a rent vs buy perspective. Other buyers like dmar/re_guru agree. North Williamsburg, where all 3 buildings are, is even nicer than South Williamsburg (where Peter Luger is) and another poster got angry at me when I compared the two, claiming that comparing South Williamsburg to North Williamsburg was like comparing Harlem to Manhattan below 96th St. There is no chance that they would cut the L line as people in eastern Brooklyn and Manhattan are also dependent on it. Additionally, the city will provide water taxi service near the Edge/NSP.

I'll need to search for the article again. It was written early this year around March 2010.

Not sure if I understand your point below, but it's definitely price around MSG. However, it would be kind silly to try to compare it to Soho, Chelsea, etc. There's more office buildings located around MSG than residential buildings.

Anyhow, my point is that this be@area will become more busy and popular because of the new stadium. It will create new restaurants, stores, galleries, etc. Don't get me wrong, there will be negatives too like traffic congestion/noisy crowd.etc. I don't know if you follow sports much, but that's pretty much the main reason for our mayor pushing to have a Jet's Stadium on the westside within the last few years. Do you how much revenue/business it would have created for the city? Okay, I know we don't live in Cleveland, but like I said, this will create alot of attention and opportunities.

With regards to Williamsburg, I don't think I've disagreed with the asking price for it, but I can't say the same for the future value. Williamsburg is a nice hood, but they need 'something' to give it a stronger boost compare to Brooklyn. Waterfront view just won't do it.. Like maybe build a seaport or something? Otherwise, it will end up like NYC FDR Riverside...nothing to do there except you have a nice view.

We considered the Williamsburg buildings as well, but the decision ultimately came down to transportation. After living in Brooklyn for 13 years in a couple different neighborhoods, the correlation between access to multiple trains and happiness is really strong. I read nothing but complaints about the crowded L train vs the many trains within a few blocks of Be@ that access everywhere in the city without transfer. This was really important in our decision and I imagine it will also be helpful in the resale value of Be@.

In terms of the area itself. The much discussed Atlantic Yards will bring more residences, office and retail space in addition to the arena. There are many projects in development for the area, examples:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/04/01/2010-04-01_from_drab_to_fab_in_bklyn_art_park.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/04/01/2010-04-01_barneys_coop_joining_trader_joes_and_urban_outfitters_in_downtown_brooklyn.html

Dowtown Brooklyn is poised to explode; I just don't see evidence of this in Willyburg.

How do you think the reopening of the jail on atlactic ave and smith st. will affect Be@?

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/08/12/brooklyn_jail_with_retail_plan_gets_sent_to_death_row.php

It will have zero effect. It's been there for years and in fact up until 2003 it was still in use. There's luxury condos next door to it already. If it mattered than Brooklyn Heights and Cobble Hill wouldn't be as nice and expensive as they are now.

Also, it's funny people talking about downtown Brooklyn being gritty and dirty. Wasn't Williamsburg pretty much a crap hole only about 10 years ago? Someone sort of hit the nail on the head about Williamsburg though. The train lines on there suck. The two mentioned projects are on the L train. The L Doesn't go anywhere useful unless you work on 14th st. The irony is you'll be right on the water but it will take you longer to get to midtown or downtown than someone who lives further into Brooklyn. Not to mention if you go out in Manhattan at night taking more than one train at off hours is hell.

I don't doubt the buildings are nice but there's a reason they offer a lot amenities because it's hard to get out of the neighborhood.

E line. Oddly enough I know the neighborhoods, but the number of reviews on Yelp.com played a small role in my decision.

http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=&ns=1&find_loc=brooklyn#bbox=-74.15084838867188,40.479336856947604,-73.73611450195312,40.79405848578324&places=NY:New_York:Brooklyn:Williamsburg_-_North_Side,NY:New_York:Brooklyn:Boerum_Hill,NY:New_York:Brooklyn:Cobble_Hill,NY:New_York:Brooklyn:Downtown_Brooklyn&sortby=most_reviewed

The link above is the top 20 reviewed places in North Williamsburg, DoBro, Cobble Hill and Boerum Hill. 15 of the top 20 are in North Williamsburg; (29 of the top 40, and 42 of the top 60). It's definitely a younger slightly different demographic in North Williamsburg inflating the number of reviews online, but to be honest I like the younger female demographic hehe :P Smith St is nice and so are the multiple train lines, but those were the only pro's for me buying in Schermerhorn :(

Another important point I wanted to make is standard economic growth models in the long run. It's basically a function of labor (population) and capital (equipment). Also the amount of savings is equal to the amount of investment. It's hard to juxtapose that into micro real estate markets, but in my opinion Cobble Hill and Boerum Hill are mature markets since they've had million dollar brownstones for decades (I'm associating Be@ with this area since it's on the border- you will probably frequent this area, not DoBro). Census will come out soon and I'm sure all of us wouldn't be surprised to see big population growth in Willamsburg. Couple that with all the new condo buying (people with a lot of savings) and I'd say Wburg is growing faster. One thing DoBro has going for it right now is a lot of city investment into flatbush, fulton mall area, the arena (private and public investment) etc. Point being city investment can only last so long, whereas private investment and savings is sustainable and in the long run improve the (micro) economy.

re_guru -- based on your economic growth assessment, isn't it weird to pay more per sq foot in a developing market than in a mature market? wouldn't one buy in a developing market to save on the purchase price relative to a mature one?

good observation; a few huge factors aside such as city view, tax abatement, in unit W/D, more amenities for less, Toll Brothers vs Jamestown, same upfront costs, prime Wburg vs border of Boreum / Cobble Hill, etc... a mature market is closer to a steady state, meaning slow and steady growth. A developing market is riskier but at the same time can grow at a much faster pace. This probably reflects why I received a bigger discount in the growth neighborhood; it's just riskier. If you just look at StreetEasy neighborhood median values data, DoBro and Wburg are similar in pricing and inventory. So all things being equal, I'm taking the growth investment. I could be a little biased though since it's silly to take any risks in this environment lol. But at the end of the day it came down to me just liking everything about my unit at NSP, it had soo much more to offer for only $10 more per sq ft...

re-guru, what PSF are you getting at NSP if you don't mind sharing? Are you on a high floor?

$680- not a high floor, but not on the bottom either- closer toward the middle. This comparison applies to people considering the upper floors at Be@.

re_guru,,,i assume at that price you didn't get any outdoor space

The Fulton mall area is great... you can get sneakers, gold jewelry, and cell phones at almost every store!
I think the crappiness of DoBro is very different than the crappiness of Williamsburg. In general terms, W'burg is more gritty, industrial and barren, while Downtown Bklyn is more ghetto-like. Both have their [de]merits, but I think it's a matter of which is less worse.
On a related note, I'd be shocked if that supermarket near Be@ can stay in business... it's really expensive, and seems to cater to a very small demographic.
Disclaimer: I live near DoBro, but I go out in W'burg a lot.

Loving this conversation guys, thanks a lot! I'm also considering a studio at the Edge or NSP2 or Downtown Brooklyn within the next year. So thanks for all the food for thought.

I'm still torn though. As it stands now, I'm thinking either Oro or Be@ if I go for Downtown. NSP2 if I go Williamsburg.

I currently own in LIC, so I see the merits of being on the water, but like the pricing at DoBro.

Decisions, decisions. Lol

LIC-Queens
Interesting,I just bought at the View in LIC. Why the move to brooklyn? And why stick to new developments? ever consider brownstone coops in Brooklyn Heights/Cobble/Carol/Boerum/park slope? Does LIC not offer enough for you?

Similar situation as many here...going back and forth between a 1 bed in Be@ or WB Edge/NSP. Prefer the Edge neighborhood but love the Be@ price. Be@ not negotiating much on price below 3-4% though. I'm finding the price per square foot is almost equal between the 2 buildings. Seems Be@ is filling up fast though.

Has anyone successfully negotiated 10-15% off at Edge on a lower floor 1 bed? I can only get 10K off asking though they are paying closing costs?

@LIC_Queens-if you buy in dobro/bburg, what are you going to do with your place in LIC? do you think you can sell or rent it w/o losing lots of $$$? btw, only pointing out housing market prob, not trashing any of the 3 neighborhoods.

@riptide-a potential strategy would be to find a similar 1br in NSP2, negotiate 10%+ off asking price & closing costs and then point out to the Edge sales staff that their competitor is offering you a better deal, watch as the price on the Edge 1br drops. Same thing could work with be@, esp. if you show them this thread and how their unwillingness to go a lower on price and pay more closing costs has already cost them two potential buyers. Remain firm on price and don't settle for less than 10% off list at NSP2/Edge, unless it is a freshly reduced unit.

You say you get more amenities for less but have any of these buildings actually transferred the condo board from the developer to the owner yet? At this point you don't really know what the finances are for the condo and a lot of these places underestimate their monthly fees to make them more attractive to buyers.

I think there was an article in the NYT a few months back about a lot of new developments ditching amenities they advertised because they were just too expensive and no one wanted to have their fees hiked to pay for them.

This is an interesting thread ..

If re-guru paid 680psf, and I value a balcony at say 60,000$ [for me it is worth that for sure, and roughly recall either edge or nsp telling me they used that figure] then thats another 100 psf of value for the apartment i am looking at. Just trying to make rough comparisions but it is hard because there are few balconies at nsp.

@broadwayron - this should not be news but the grocery store is doing well.

http://www.brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?category_id=5&id=37167

@LICman-I love LIC, but I want a change of pace for a bit. Been there for 13 years and will rent out my 2 places, so no need to worry about selling and then buying. I'm more of a new development person, honestly. I like being near the water and Billyburg reminds me of LIC when I moved there, except more places to eat/shop/hang out in. I also like Toll Bros. They seem to put out a quality product from what my friends in the Toll Bros. building in LIC say.

Did you find that TF Cornerstone was good with negotiating with? I am so looking forward to the next condo they build on the waterfront there. I have a feeling it will be amazing. I'm by the View a few times a week and they're really working on expanding Gantry Park.

@asdfas1234-Rents will cover my mortgages and main., etc.

"W'burg is more gritty, industrial and barren, while Downtown Bklyn is more ghetto-like. Both have their [de]merits, but I think it's a matter of which is less worse. "

This is the most honest assessment on this thread of the 2 areas. I also live in DoBro and go out in Wburg. They both have trash and grit and are changing. DoBro has the projects and Williamsburg has tenements, squats and warehouses. You can pick your poison.

Over 50% sold in 3 months...

http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/31993?utm_campaign=Feed%3A+trdnews+%28The+Real+Deal+-+New+York+Real+Estate+News%29&utm_medium=feed&utm_source=feedburner

edit: *almost 50%, they sold 102 units in 90 days. They "project" being sold out by december.

This is one condo that really has the amount of signed contracts they claim. It seems like every other condo is claiming nowadays to be almost 50% or over 50% but be@schermerhorn's numbers are real. I've been keeping close tabs on this one and a sell out by the end of the year doesn't seem unreasonable at this pace. A very good indicator on whether a building is officially 51% in-contract is Fannie mae approval. Fannie will only grant a final approval once they verify a building has 51% sold. sunny.hong@bankofamerica.com

It appears that listing prices of many units have gone up by approx 3%. This is great news for people already in contract (i.e. those who took the leap of faith before the critical mass had been formed). This building has been getting a lot of good press lately and I'm happy to see it do well. Kudos to the marketing team.

wow, it does look that way. seems like maybe they are catching up with ORO/Toren prices now that they have a good portion sold.

does anyone know how much rent we can expect for a 650sq ft high floor 1-bedroom without a den in this building?

the atlantic stamp building down the street should give you a good idea:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/the-atlantic-stamp-building

I'd say around $2,300

Does anyone know if they've started closings yet? Any buyers out there get an actual closing date yet?

I was told closing letters would start going out this week

i was told the same thing - that closing letters would go out in about a week or 2.

on another note - the seller's attorney is a GIGANTIC doucebag, and seems to resent the fact that we are making him do any work at all. We chose NOT go follow their "advice" - which was to use their recommended attorney, mortgage company, or title company. Which turned out in our favor. We have a WONDERFUL real estate lawyer who is looking out for my best interest, and is doing a fantastic job of getting me a good contract. The only problem we have is an issue with the construction liens, and how they will be getting taken care of. We have been going back and forth for weeks about a 1 bedroom apt, and getting their attorney to respond is absurd. He actually got the real estate agent to ask why my attorney kept bothering him. I was like "HELLO! When one attorney contacts another one to discuss a contract, its called....DOING THEIR JOB, JACKASS" His fav M.O thus far has been to agree to everything verbally, then refuse to put anything into writing. It was only after i cc'ed the sponsor in an email and told them that the only hold up in me signing my contract was the ridiculous amount of lying their attorney was doing that we actually moved ahead and got anything accomplished. 20 minutes after i sent that email we somehow magically got our contract written the way WE wanted it.

I realize that this is probably the way real estate and lawyers in general are, and i will not let enormously pompous jackass get in my way of purchasing real estate.

From what I understand, sponsor's attorneys are absolutely swamped (receiving multiple contracts everyday for months) - while this does not absolve of them of what nycgirl2 accuses them of, a bit of patience probably goes a long way.

I am interested in the construction liens though - I thought the lenders had been paid off and that any liens related thereto would have been released, unless I am missing something.

I'm curious about the lien situation too, I'm also wondering what people think of the parking lot directly across the street and the impact on south facing views if/when that lot gets developed?

I've heard several different takes, but it ultimately depends on what Abby Hamlin wants. The latest is to turn it into a park, which would be great.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/04/01/2010-04-01_from_drab_to_fab_in_bklyn_art_park.html

I have also read that a market rate rental building, a hotel and a school were planned (last paragraph).

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/realestate/26post.html

I'm not aware of any height restrictions on that parcel but if so, that would also tend to have an impact.

as of about 3-4 weeks ago, there were still liens on the property. big 1 - when did you hear that they were released?

nycgirl2 - I'm considering signing a contract for a 1 bedroom also. What additions/revisions did your lawyer suggest making? I too want to use a different attorney than their recommendations. I would love your lawyer's contact information and any advice. Thanks!

A lien on the property can be placed by a contractor or other business who has not been paid for their work. Construction on this building came to a halt and resumed when the project changed hands. Could be that some contractor from when project started did not get paid and placed lien on the property.

nycgirl2-- I too would like to know who your attorney is as I am going into contract.

bjk12/ veritas - call me paranoid, but is there any way me giving "legal/congract" advice can in ANY way be considered breaking the law, breaking my contract, etc? Basically i dont want to give that lawyer any reason to not sign my contract.

nycgirl2-
You're not giving legal advise or breaking the law-- just stating what your attorney found in the course of due diligence, which is what a good attorney is supposed to do. Sponsor would have to give you a better reason if he wants to not sign contract.

veritas - you sound like a lawyer...... =)
fair enough, i just wanted all my bases covered. The only issue we had with the deal was the liens and getting a marketable title. My lawyer put it in our contract that the seller had to have an escrow account that would cover the liens, which would theoretically lead to at least an insurable title if not a marketable one. This is to protect me in the future if i want to sell the property. No one in their right mind should or would buy an apartment with leins. Their lawyer literally had a fit when we informed that of that, and pretty much accused my lawyers of being an ammature and a shit-stirer. They literally had to the gaul to tell me that "none of the other people in contract asked for that! THEIR lawyers know what they are doing and they know the liens will be taken care of" to which i replied "a) this is not my lawyer's first time at the rodeo, and b)if the other people jumped off a bridge..."
Perhaps they are right and maybe we are being overly cautious, but in this market, i have absolutely no reason to trust them, and absolutely have to look out for myself.

nycgirl2: Just curious, what do you think of their preferred lenders? Have you started talking to them yet?

there are a few reasons why they are preferred. It boils down to the fact that because this is a brand new building, not every bank is willing to finance, some require x amount down, etc. I am not sure that i could coherently explain what what in turn explained to me, and i will not try because i do NOT want to mislead anyone. Bottom line, this is the only "preferred" component i am comfortable with, if that makes sense.
Amalgamated didnt return any of our phone calls, but the other 2 are friendly, responsive, and patient. I have not gotten a closing letter yet, so i have not officially applied for a mortgage, but based on the talks i have had with the other 2 companies, its my opinion that you cannot go wrong by using either one of them.

The way contract is drafted, you are allowed the mortgage contingency only with "preferred" lenders. That means you can walk away from the contract if you fail to get approval from these lenders. This gives incentives for the sponsor to choose preferred lenders who have easy lending criteria. It also doesn't mean your fate is sealed to only preferred lenders.

Assuming you have good credit though, and given the FHA approval of this building (which opens up a large pool of potential lenders), I would go with a lender that provides the lowest rates and fees, unless you have a relationship bank in mind. If you plan to shop around for the best deal, do your homework and check at least the lendingtree.com. You need to get smart about it fast and in my opinion, nothing is better than getting different data points from multiple lenders and looking and comparing different sets of GFEs. If they are competitive throughout (and the rates also change everyday...), go with the responsive and helpful bank, which may or may not be a preferred lender. I understand that Amalgamated does not do FHA loans.

Maybe you can hit up bofa with Sunny!

Developers bring in preferred lenders so buyers can work with a lender that has familiarity with the condo. Many times buyers think theyll get a higher rate or pay extra fees to the preferred lenders but it's actually quite the opposite. Developers want lenders to offer special incentives and rates to buyers in they project. Which is what we are working on with be@schermerhorn. The incentive for the developer is that they have lenders who know the offering plan, the contracts, and the building which at most times means a smoother closing. Always compare rates and costs and see who's offering the best deal that day with the preferred lenders and outside lenders. sunny.hong@bankofamerica.com

by the way, thanks big1.

nycgirl- did you do a title search? Does the amount of the lien get disclosed?

Thanks!

Were any of you able to negotiate an inspection of your unit or property in the contract? I'm not talking the normal punch-list items but actually hiring a home inspector.

NYGUY7, why would you need to hire a home inspector on a new condo? The new condo must follow specific guidelines and requirements. It's different from buying a house.

"Many times buyers think theyll get a higher rate or pay extra fees to the preferred lenders but it's actually quite the opposite"

This may not be true for all brokers, but if we're speaking specifically on their preferred lenders, you must pay a point and you are paying for a higher rate. From my last conversation with them, they are offering a 5.25% rate compare to the 4.6% market rate.

So, with that being said, doesn't this conflict with your statement above?

nycrayz, youre right, that does conflict with my statement above. I guess I should have just spoken for myself and not other lenders. However, typically, that is the case and the reason for preferred lenders. I am a preferred lender in several new condos and my statement above holds true. It will also hold true for be@schermerhorn purchasers. With good credit most buyers should be able to get a much more competitive rate than 5.25% and probably some closing cost credits from BofA.

Also, we have special incentives for purchasers that will buying their unit as their primary residence and have a household income is less than 78k yearly. They can qualify for up to a $5000 credit. This can be used to buy down the rate further or help pay closing costs.
sunny.hong@bankofamerica.com

Just a heads up for those with a northern city view:
http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/09/14/brooklyns_next_tallest_tower_back_on_track.php

Sometime down the line you could be obstructed by a 58 story beast next to the brooklyner :\

NYCRayz, you do realize that just because they're supposed to do things to code means they actually do it.

Here's a whole article about new construction condos with problems.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/realestate/25cov.html

Has anyone been able to get a loan outside of their preferred lenders or non-mortgage brokers?

NYGUY7, I think it really depends on the developer and their recent projects/history of craftmanship. Thanks for sharing the article.

I haven't gotten my mortgage yet but have been shopping around and found a few ppl willing to lend. Wells Fargo, Bank of America, HSBC, and Sovereign Bank. Wells Fargo and Bank of America both told me they'll be on the preferred lenders list soon. The rates are pretty good and similar for all the one's I named.

nyc gal i like how u r assertive and interested in whats going on i am in contract on a small ph one br and look forward to meeting new neighbors. so r we close to 50 percent in contract? wells fargo offered a great rate but needs 70% in contract. any feedback?

i own a 2br in the kent and want to sell at a good price its a beautiful apt any interest?

They are officially over the 50% mark, but closing letters are not going out until the end of the month now.

Does anyone know if this is true or not? To apply for a loan within BOA, Wells Fargo, or HSBC, etc. It's not based on the % contracts signed, but instead, it's on how many are units are sold? In addition, there's a requirement for # of individuals living in the building as well.

How anyone attempted to apply for loan yet for this building?

Aboo, per your statement above, Wells Fargo and Bank of America both told me they'll be on the preferred lenders list soon...

Do you know how soon?

Nycgirl: Any chance you could send me the contact info on your real estate lawyer? Freeman5k@gmail.com thank you!

hi nycgirl, I'd appreciate it much if you could send your lawyer's info to me as well. quietstorm730 < at > aol < dot > com. thanks!!

Is anyone else ready to move in, just waiting for closing letters? I am. Pretty anxious to get in there. I propose a be@schermerhorn "meet the new neighbors" happy hour at Angry Wades on Smith St. Anybody interested? Thursday 9/23 after work?

i like the proposal for thurs. i would be there but i work 3-11.

I like the happy hour idea. Say 7:00 at Angry Wades?

Sounds good. My name is Jim. I'll probably be there more like 5:30/6, but that sounds good.

take pics and post feedback anyone computer savvy and want to make a facebook page or is that silly?

im all for it, but isnt that a little cart-before-horse-ish? i propose many neighbor happy hours, dance parties on the roof deck, etc, in say 3 months when we have all moved in. I dont want to jump the gun - we are shopping for a mortgage but i wont consider myself a resident at be@schermerhorn until I have been handed the keys to my apt.

nyc girl is focused and smart. yes we r all excited...

@ tlobklyn - thank you!
Good luck ( i guess that's the appropriate thing to say ) to everyone who is in contract/looking for a mortgage/thinking about buying at Schermerhorn.

what type of apartments do you guys think will be the easiest to sell back in about 4 years ? Studios ? 1 bedroom ? 1 bedroom office ? 2 bed rooms ?

1 bedroom office. It's only because the prices are more decent and affordable. It's not easy to buy a 2 bedroom condo unless you're making six figures along with your partner and you are able to get a huge amount for loan.

Studios for rent, not to sell.

Most families would consider a house for such a price and space...etc.

Posting this question again:

Does anyone know if this is true or not? To apply for a loan within BOA, Wells Fargo, or HSBC, etc. It's not based on the % contracts signed, but instead, it's on how many are units are sold? In addition, there's a requirement for # of individuals living in the building as well.

How anyone attempted to apply for loan yet for this building?

has anyone gotten appraisals back yet? wondering how they have compared to negotiated purchase price.