Science: Deepwater Horizon vs. Long Island City

"I am not a crook"?

lowery, don't mind Steve - he's just a little sore that I wrote a poem about his neighborhood for a change. Your Realtor poem is epic. Bring on the Shakespeare!

I'm not sore at all, bjw. My only criticism was that I was the only one who realized what you were talking about. Granted what you wrote has little resemblance to where I live today, though 20 years ago it was pretty accurate.

shall I write a poem about the Hell's Clinton I knew and lived in?

Steve, it's a matter of opinion of course, but what I wrote has just as much resemblance to where you live today as your poems do. It's all in good fun though, right?

As I said - it doesn't bother me at all. LICC rants about my "dumpy rental" all the time.

But Newtown Creek bears no resemblance to Newtown Creek?

Hmm.

It's all in good fun, though, right?

I didn't say no resemblance. I said just as much. And it is all in good fun, isn't it?

What would you have me say, bjw? I said the purpose was fun - and fun I'm having!

As much fun as

PCBs ARE / SO MUCH FUN / LONG ISLAND CITY / COME ALL / COME ONE / BURMA-SHAVE

?

now, now, if you don't stop this, I'll model my next LIC oeuvre on "A la recherche de temps perdu" instead of that short speech........

Imagine reading this: "For a long time I went to bed reading the NYTimes Real Estate section. Sometimes, my candle scarcely out, my eyes would close so quickly that I did not have time to say to myself: 'I live in a rental.' And, half an hour later, the thought it was time to buy a condo would wake me; I wanted to move out of the rental I thought I still lived in and break the lease; I had not ceased while sleeping to form reflections on what I had not purchased, but these reflections had taken a rather peculiar turn; it seemed to me that I myself was what the ads were talking about; a lawyer, a banker, the rivalry between Tribeca and Soho."

That's about one third of the first page. Four thousand pages to go............. I'm warning you. Peace and love poems!

I don't understand bjw's point: it would have been fun if anybody besides me recognized what he was talking about, and it took me 3 reads to be sure, and even then I wasn't sure. You can say lots about my nabe - like it's full of polyester tourists for Wednesday matinees - but if nobody gets what you're talking about, you must be talking off point.

Try again, bjw!

I knew exactly what bjw was talking about.

now, now, I warned you! Continuing with page of 4,000+ pages.........

"This belief lived on for a few seconds after my waking; it did not shock my reason but lay heavy like liens on my accounts and kept me from realizing that the rent was no longer in arrears."

Next sentence is a doozy, so stop ...........

Steve, it's not my fault you don't understand poetry. My piece received nothing but compliments. Just seems like you're a little touchy when someone pokes fun at your neighborhood. Classic example of being able to dish but not receive.

"I knew exactly what bjw was talking about."

HAHAHAHA! That's why you chimed in 3 days later.

"it's not my fault you don't understand poetry"

Apparently not. It's Columbia University's fault.

"My piece received nothing but compliments."

Nope. Everybody thought you were talking about Astoria.

"Just seems like you're a little touchy when someone pokes fun at your neighborhood."

Not at all. How many different ways do I have to say it? Make fun on! I wouldn't change where I live for where you and LICC live for anything!

apologies.. i am confused by what bj wrote:

"Steve, it's a matter of opinion of course, but what I wrote has just as much resemblance to where you live today as your poems do."

what was bj talking about?
do steve's poems resemble his apt? in the sense that the layout of the words on the page resemble the floorplan; or possibly the facade of the building; or maybe the tax-lot map of the neighborhood?

maybe im just too literal to get this stuff

That's great Steve - I also went to Columbia. Maybe you snoozed in class too much?

"Nope."

Actually, it did. And with a subtle change to the title, it should be even more obvious that I was referring to your lovely street. Nobody said Astoria. But as the best writers know, you never make your allusions too blatant; the reader has to work as well. I don't agree with LICC on a whole lot, but he's right that you make this too easy.

"I wouldn't change where I live for where you and LICC live for anything!"

But it's a dump! As they say in France, les gouts et les couleurs ne se discutent pas.

"Just seems like you're a little touchy when someone pokes fun at your neighborhood. Classic example of being able to dish but not receive."

Exactly.

steve, no one who owns in LIC would ever prefer to live in a dumpy rental on 52nd and 8th. Fact.

LICcounty, acronyms in American English are usually expressed in block capitals. So
"False Accusation Contrary to Truth"
should be written as
FACT
(Not "Fact.")

"Nobody said Astoria."

No. They said Sunnyside.

"but he's right that you make this too easy."

Not really, bjw: as you can see, I don't care what you say about where i live: write away! But next time make some references to things that people will understand. It's not that your "allusions" weren't blatant, it's that what you wrote was as comprehensible as Joyce.

"steve, no one who owns in LIC would ever prefer to live in a dumpy rental on 52nd and 8th. Fact."

I know, LICC - people who own in LIC can't afford a dumpy rental on 52nd and 8th: they've lost all their equity, and then some.

Fact!

HAHAHAHAHA!

If you're comparing me to Joyce, I'll take it. However, if references to red sightseeing buses, tourists, the Hudson River, and crappy stores (not to mention all the pretty sights discussed in the poem) aren't enough, maybe you should look into some Princeton Review books?

I liked your poem, BJ, but I have to admit I thought it was about Long Island City (all the references to squalor), and that you were being ironic in your reference to tourists (because of course nobody visiting New York would want to go to Long Island City -- therein would lie the humor). I was confused by your reference to a street on the Sunnyside, it's true (got me!), but not at all mixed up about "Hudson" ... I thought it was perfectly obvious to all that it referred to Hudson Concrete, at 47-51 33rd Street http://hudsonconcrete.com/contactus.html

Never assume irony. I do love that you got my Hudson reference though! Love their work.

52nd Street, Queens, does not exist in Astoria, so far as I know, and I just studied a map. It was I who thought it might refer to W'side/S'side, but only because I know that part of Qns, and that's what jumped to mind. I got vivid pictures of Manhattan, though, from that superb poem, and thought of E. 52nd St., around First Ave., but again, only because I knew that area well. It never occurred to me that it was a sendup of stevejhx's current address, because the tone of the entire thread was civil and lighthearted, or so I thought. West 52nd Street isn't so different from the rest of Midtown these days, and I always find these smug putdowns of various sections of Manhattan below 96th Street by residents of rival neighborhoods boring. That's why I keep suggesting we bring it on and start lampooning Chelsea, UWS, Alphabet City, etc. But 52nd & Eighth will do, so thank you for that, bjw. James Joyce? Let me think about that ..........

"if references to red sightseeing buses, tourists, the Hudson River, and crappy stores (not to mention all the pretty sights discussed in the poem) aren't enough...."

Nothing to distinguish that as PARTICULARLY my neighborhood: you get that everywhere from Century 21 north to about 72nd Street. Now, if you were to say "Jersey Boys," playing across the street, the Hearst Building (which I'm looking at right now through my office window), etc., etc., then you'll be getting closer. The key to good literature is SPECIFICITY.

Ridicule all you want - say "Wednesday Matinee Polyester Tourists" and you're getting a lot closer than just "tourists," who are EVERYWHERE!

lowery: I know this thread is supposed to be about science and poetry, but you have real talent.
I'm extending an invitation to you, from us: Want to write some songs?

said the spider to the fly.

"because the tone of the entire thread was civil and lighthearted, or so I thought"

lowery, thanks for the kind words. This thread IS civil and lighthearted! Some, like steve, enjoy poking fun at LICComment's choice of address, so I thought it would be fun to do the same for Steve's choice. He doesn't seem to like it though. No complaints about any of the other poems, so draw your own conclusions. I am all for lampooning other neighborhoods however. That was the intent of my poetry slam thread.

"The key to good literature is SPECIFICITY."

Translator and lit crit prof! What can't you do? Seriously though, tetanus fish-hooks are not specific enough for you?

I have an MA in Spanish and Portuguese from Columbia, bjw. Yes, I do know a thing or two about it.

"He doesn't seem to like it though."

Entirely untrue - I don't care. My point is, what do "tetanus fishhooks" (one word, btw) have to do with where I live? I'm not on the water or anywhere near it. That's my point, and others agree with it, as you have read. Time to admit...

"No complaints about any of the other poems."

Wrong again. Read: I've criticised other poems, including my own, remarking where they might be improved, and lauding them where they excel. Complimentary is just my nature. :0

"I have an MA in Spanish and Portuguese from Columbia, bjw. Yes, I do know a thing or two about it."

Yes, thanks for reposting that tidbit. I also have a Columbia degree. Seems like you may have dozed off in class a bit?

"My point is, what do "tetanus fishhooks" (one word, btw) have to do with where I live?"

Since I have to spell everything out for you, there's a fish market in your neighborhood, not exactly known for its upkeep (http://nymag.com/listings/stores/sea-breeze/ - it's almost like they read my poem!). The neighborhood's dirty; there's fish. Capisci?

"I'm not on the water or anywhere near it. That's my point, and others agree with it, as you have read."

Your point is that you're not on the water. Ok, great. It's not really relevant here, but I think some would have a problem with you qualifying half a mile away as "not anywhere near" but I digress.

"Time to admit..."

To admit what? That you're maybe just a wee bit defensive about this silly poetry thing all of a sudden poking fun at you for a change? Nah, couldn't be.

bj, i am a certified idiot, but this sentence, what gives? for someone with such fine academic pedigree as yours:

"Steve, it's a matter of opinion of course, but what I wrote has just as much resemblance to where you live today as your poems do."

wbottom, sorry if it wasn't clear. The point was that my poem's imagery was as accurate as the imagery in Steve's poems.

"there's a fish market in your neighborhood"

I had to look that "fish store" up.

It's at 40th Street & 9th Avenue. NOWHERE NEAR where I live. Rockefeller Center is closer, & I don't consider that to be in my neighborhood, either.

"That you're maybe just a wee bit defensive about this silly poetry"

Not at all. I (and many other people) just didn't realize what you were talking about. First I don't eat fish, and second, I never walk to 40th Street, never mind around 9th Avenue. There's nothing there. And third, "tetanus fishhooks" (one word) have very little to do with a fishmonger, anyway: commercially sold fish are caught in nets, or raised on a fish farm. How long do you imagine it would take to feed the world by catching one fish at a time?

That was my point. You want to make fun, make fun. But make it specific, and relevant.

Really, 12 blocks is "nowhere near"? Do you take a cab to the subway too? People buy fish and take them home. You might even have seen some of these so called "walkers." The fish hooks (can be two words) are colorful (and specific) imagery. Or do you not get that this is a poem? You might be the first human being to want to fact check poetry. Hilarious!

bjw, time to admit you're wrong: it's 12 downtown blocks and 1 crosstown block, about 3/4 of a mile from where I live. I've never been there. It's not a major place. You have a multitude of people who said they didn't understand what you were talking about (me included, at first), then you say, "You might be the first human being to want to fact check poetry."

No. But if you're going to write a poem about the North Pole, don't put palm trees in it.

I'll tell you what, bjw, since you're so insistent: Next time I see somebody walking around in my neighborhood with a bag of fish, I'll let you know.

[Aside] How say you by that? Still harping on my
neighborhood: yet he knew me not at first; he said I
was a fishmonger: he is far gone, far gone: and
truly in my youth I suffered much extremity for
rent; very near this. I'll speak to him again.

But you're both right: 3/4 of a mile is thousands and thousands of people away in New York (a great distance) ... 3/4 of a mile in County Kings, a few score people away, is just a hop-skip-and-jump.

Just because Steve probably won't get it, that last post was actually telepathically sent to me by Steve and I merely transcribed it for StreetEasy's benefit.

Woe is me, woe is me.

"bjw, time to admit you're wrong: it's 12 downtown blocks and 1 crosstown block, about 3/4 of a mile from where I live. I've never been there. It's not a major place."

I find it remarkable that you: a) have not ventured 12 blocks down and one measly block over from where you leave - get out much?; b) have never even once been to the Port Authority terminal; c) do not consider it a "major place." It's not at all nice (like the rest of your neighborhood, naturally), but not major? Good stuff.

*live* not leave.

So is this going to turn into a biblical parable about fishmongers and loaving Irish carpenters who live off of their condo rents?

It's only the next logical step after poetry.

"I find it remarkable...."

Find what you will. I don't go to the Port Authority much - don't take buses. If there was something there that I needed, I suppose I'd go. But there's not - why would I go to a fish store that you say is filthy? Can't think of a reason. If I liked fish there'd be Gorton's, or the Food Emporium 3 blocks away, which is clean.

Hmm. Decision: 3 blocks for clean fish, or 13 blocks for dirty fish.

Steve's answer: 3 blocks for clean fish.

bjw's answer: 13 blocks for dirty fish.

AH's answer: Irish cod.

"Irish cod": that probably means something I don't understand, and it's probably too racy for me anyway. I'm just a simple country boy from the Upper West Side.

Now if bjw wants to write a limerick about my neighborhood referencing 13 blocks for a dirty fish, he's more than welcome to. It'd be original, and funny!

Oh, dear, now I do feel humbled - I was too embarrassed previously to confess that bjw's divine poem conjured up memories of fish on Ninth Avenue. But, you see, it was a NONSPECIFIFC conjuring, precisely as MARCEL PROUST would have done (see pp.200-210 of "Le temps retrouvee," folio classique paperback edition) - this is what made the imagery more "real" to me, because it described, or took me closer to, the real impression which lay dormant within me. Embarrassed, because I thought I was dreaming of the wrong neighborhood. You can buy fish at markets like that in Queens as well, somewhere on Greenpoint/Roosevelt Blvd, but I can't be SPECIFIC.

Truth, how did you know I'm a musician? I'm afraid you couldn't call my dreadful attempts at composition "songs," though, and I'm definitely neither "pop" nor popular. Steve, get out there and buy some fresh fish. Dags and Food Emporium and Whole Pay Check (oops, Whole Foods) are just not the same thing.

What on earth have I started now? An esthetic debate on "truth" in literature. Well, if it's any help making this a real estate thread, Proust was evicted once!

There once was a man in Hell's Kitchen,
Where the air was so bad he kept itching.
Walked a dozen blocks for some carp,
Set his foot on something quite sharp,
Man, is that tetanus bitchin'!

lowery, that is some brilliant stuff. Screw Shakespeare, bring on the Proust! I am ok with keeping it in the original language.

Oh, almost forgot - you will notice I apologized profusely for my Raven/Realtor poem, because I did not intend for it to ridicule or needle or provoke LICComment, who, as I've stated before, may end up being the one with the last laugh and the biggest equity of all of us. There are unique things about that condo corner of Hunter's Point. The first time steve harped about Newtown Creek and posted links about its environmental dangers, I thought he was overdoing it. But recently I've begun to rethink this, as a result of alanhart's posted link. I think steve may be right, that it's not a safe place to live. However, Greenpoint would be just as risky, and I think steve said that cancer rates are off the charts there. But if you were to magically clean up hazardous wastes in the area, I would sell Hunter's Point for its QUIET. There are not many residential areas that are that quiet in all five boroughs, let alone in the ring around Midtown. I am not so impressed with subway access, because it doesn't matter how short the ride is if you can't get a place to stand on the train, and the #7 has had renovation project after renovation project for 20 years or more now. Another selling point for LIC might be that you can zip over to Williamsburg for your night life, but not have to live in the middle of it. The views are fantastic. And the fact that there was next to no community there before City Lights means that the future critical mass will create a new community. If the new world created by wired young professionals is what you want.... it's LIC's political views which are worthy of trouncing upon.

lowery, cancer rates are actually lower in Greenpoint than in Manhattan. Imagine that.

lowery, you're absolutely right, and add to that what happens when there's a massive infusion of government handouts, as happens when a site is gifted Superfund status, and the area will simply explode. Top THAT off with the rock-solid construction that the new buildings employ, and you have a well-monied altogether quiet place to live. Further enhancing the value of that waterfront niche will continue to be its proximity to Roosevelt Island's landleased cooperatives. "We live in the best of all possible worlds" will be Long Island City's new motto.

I believe I've mentioned that I have/had a button (from 1970 or so, I'd guess) that reads "MARCEL PROUST IS A YENTA" ... I want you to have it. Maybe I'll find it.

The cancer rates are lower for LIC than in Manhattan too.

And the 7 train is one of the most reliable in the city.

But reliably WHAT???

and don't forget how successful we've been in afghanistan.

That's much, much better bjw - and I even got a laugh out of it. But as mentioned earlier, no winning limericks can start out, "There once was...."

Way overused.

LICC moved for the train
Treks through the slush and the rain
For Manhattan is close
And Long Island City is gross!
Thus he's forced to decamp to stay sane.

Never happy, are you Steve? Let's amend "There once was a man in" to "A fishmonger reluctantly moved to".

This was posted days ago, bjw: read the thread! "There once was" is an automatic disqualifier.

"A fishmonger moved to Hell's Kitchen,
"Where the air was so bad he kept itching...."

Now THAT is very clever, and it makes me laugh. Far better than your prior efforts.

stevejhx, you've outdone yourself - perfect

stevejhx!
It's Tricky to rock a rhyme, to rock a rhyme that's right on time, It's Tricky
BRAVO!

M'kay howzabouta

DUTCH KILLS / LIC / TOXIC WASTE KILLS / MORE QUICKLY / BURMA-SHAVE

alanhart, how could we have failed to mention Roosevelt Island? I think it only fair in the interests of promoting historical awareness to restore it's older nomenclature, "Welfare Island." I've always been fond of those almshouse ruins at the southern end of Welfare Island, as well as promises to transform this set for the old TV series "The Prisoner" into .......... well, the set for a new series called "The Prisoner." Ah, the only place in NYC where one has waterfront jogging trails less than a block from one's bathroom. And that does mean EVERYONE's bathroom. No matter where on Welfare Island one lives, a bracing morning jog is just steps away, literally, from one's shower. In fact, if one has a windowed kitchen, one can reach out and touch someone on each and every Circle Line Bus Tour!

And the view of Beekman Place and Sutton Place are even better than from Gantry Park!

Oh, dear, sentence #3 of Swann's Way does beckon me so............

it's = its
my keyboard did that, not me

not me = not I
except in French

Keyboards are the scourge of proper language.

I'm more partial to Hart's Island (a different island ... the place where you go after you've lived in Long Island City), but LICcounty thinks I'm all about Welfare Island. Welfare Island's prior name, Blackwell's Island, has a nice elegant sinister ring to it, and conjures up "bottomless pit" imagery.

well, so long as you are not a convalescent on Randall's Island or Ward's Island (I get them confused), then I suppose you're okay..................... that's where people go after they've spent too much time in the club scene, I imagine.

They merged and are now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Carl Icahn Industries ... but they're net-leased to the ultrawealthy via a syndicate of Upper East Side private school soccer (Communist football) teams.

ah yes...the lovely hospital on ward's....for the criminally insane

perhaps the workings of another facility on the island could go LICC's wishlist for newtown: sewage treatment

and re welfare island..did you know there is treasure buried in the silt of the south end?

woops...."off" the south end

damned keyboard

no, did not know about buried treasure - swimming distance from Gantry Park?

lowery, EVERYTHING is swimming distance from Gantry Park!

true, alanhart, the River Cafe for a light afterswim dinner, the Newtown Creek for a date with the Lorelei, the #7 train tube, the E train tube, a few pairs of concrete boots, the heavily guarded UN, buried treasure near the ruins of the asylum at Welfare Island, the relocated Pepsi sign, Silvercup Studios, the Circle Line tour boats, the 34th Street helipad, Trump's UN Plaza condos, why, the possibilities are endless

Call it "The Great Escape."

Can't you see the ad copy already, Steve and Alan?

"Continuing Long Island City's long tradition as a storage place for cargo, fuel and unsold retail merchandise, as well as its historic preeminence as a manufacturing center, Condominium [..fill in name...] offers today's harried New Economy workers a convenient place to store their possessions and build a new community to reflect their unique New Economy identity in a setting where their daytime workplaces are never far out of sight. Come to Long Island City, where you can keep an eye on your workplace through binoculars from our floor-to-ceiling Chinaplex windows while hoarding your stash of pointy-toe shoes, bamboo Chinature and precious $7.00-per-gallon Northern Alberta Sand Oil fuel. Relax and unwind not quite away from it all, by taking a bracing afterwork swim in picturesque Newtown Creek (just granted Superfund status!) and rest assured that your better-than-the-best children will be safely warehoused under lock and key where they will never have to mingle with natural-birth offspring of non-Whole-Foods-nourished stock. Come home to Hunter's Point, so remote and isolated, and yet so close."

I personally am not crazy about lic I think it is still overpriced, there is a lot of poor quality construction, lack of ameneties etc. but having said that there seems to be people who like it and live there, what I dont understand is all the hating of lic if you dont like it thats understandable but why is there so much arguing over this neighboorhood

Big Allis
Big Allis
Goddess of LIC!
With petrochemicals leaching out
Why pay for her 'lectricity?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Alice

Yer LIC values plummet fast
Ya sit in Queens just like a lump
Yez moneys never will return
Youse need a bad poem, and gratuitous bump

"LIC values plummet fast"

You're not only stupid, but outright retarded.
Prices have gone up over the past 15 months.

Where are the sub 500 psf prices????

'A' for effort, CarolSt! One poem and you're already a much better poet than you are a real estate sales agent. Congratulations!!!

carol, that is so beautiful--you have touched me

When is CarolSt's latest tome of poem being published? I eagerly await.