Selling

Dear apt4sale,

Yes, it is impossible to sell a NYC apartment without a broker.

Sincerely,
Your local REALTOR (tm)

other than the fact that you are a realtor - why do you think it's impossible?
Even with a buyers broker commission offered?

it is possible -

definitely not impossible.

So what's the best way to approach selling without a broker?
I'm willing to offer 2.5% buyers broker commission.
Do I let them brokers advertise for us?

umm, it's called being facetious - I am not a REALTOR (tm). there's a broker on here - i think keith something - who offers a type of hybrid listing which involves reduced commissions. I don't know the details, but search for him and give him a call to find out what it is. I'm sure there are other brokers who do it as well.

the problem i see, is that by offering say 2.5%, you are saving say 3.5%. but if i were a buyer, who isn't directly paying a commission, I'd feel like I'd want some of that 3.5%, and a buyer's broker is naturally going to prefer a place for his client that has a selling broker (cause a: they want to perpetuate the closed system and b: they'd rather deal with a fellow broker than directly with a seller). So now you have to price it lower than you would w/a broker - so say you are saving 1.5%. which is still a lot of money, but you have to be around for showings, open houses, pay for advertising, etc. And even an accurately priced place is still going to have a range of say 2%, depending on how much the buyers value certain things. And a FSBO is going to have less traffic, so I don't know that you really benefit much, if at all, by doing that.

Now if you go full FSBO, you have another 2.5% to gain, which imo makes more sense.

Thanks - very helpful.
Do you think you get the traffic (buyers) by going full FSBO?
How do you recommend advertising?

I am an advocate for FSBO, however if you are so unsure of how to go about it, you probably will have no success. You seem to fall under the reason that brokers exist. I don;t mean any offense, but if you go look back you will see someone on here who came on and just asked opinion of the website he set up to sell his apartment. You need to know all the facts and gather them on your own then ask for help after you have thought it through.

FYI: Not doing the hybrids any longer.I did have some success with it, one sold one did not. Because of the way the system is set up it's hard to keep the process seamless. I will spare everyone a rant on selling FSBO and selling in general, but feel free to contact me with any questions about the process.

OK I can't help myself, I'll add a couple of things. NUMBER 1 you have to price correctly, if I was selling my own place FSBO I would arrive at the correct price and then cut it by 6%(maybe 10%). No matter how much "better" things are getting(or you think they are getting) it's tough to sell anything but the best apartments at what the market considers a good price and this is using a broker at a big firm with deep pockets and time. Second tier units are taking 4+ months to sell and lots of price tweaking along the way. Third tier.... good luck, few sellers of these units can stomach the real value of their home.

Keith

http://theburkhardtgroup.com/agents_details.php?agent_ID=7619

I also think it depends on how difficult it is to price your apartment. Take a best case scenario - you have a typical type of building for your neighborhood, and a neighbor in the same line on a close floor sold very recently. You probably don't need a broker because its not difficult to value it, there was probably foot traffic and one or two people who would've bought it at a similar price. You are essentially piggybacking off the work done by the broker and owner of the just-sold apartment.
Now, if you have a unique place or the last comp in your building was a while ago, it will be harder to find that price, which means that most buyers will just genericize it and come up with low-end bids. In that scenario, I think a broker is worth it.

KeithB and printer are both correct about pricing your apartment. IMO, that is where FSBO sellers need the most help. If you do not have good building comps for your apartment, it can be easy to price your apartment way above the market.

Aside from putting the apartment in the REBNY system, is there anything else the listing agent does, that can't be done by the owner? Assuming the owner has the time.

You'll get frustrated and fail. Probably call a broker in in less than 60 days from the time you begin to "market" your apt. Few, if any brokers will show your apt. You'll get stupif low offers from bottom feeders. You're listing will get stale. Enjoy

Enjoy the bus.

Need new material.

Cc,Stay off threads you have no purpose being on other than looking for people to insult.

What's your purpose?

In this case to give the op a peek into the next 60-90 days of futility. You're a loser, go away.

Big Jim boner contribution.

Brokers think customers suck

Brokers are great

Big Jim boner is the greatest broker who thinks that customers suck

A fsbo isn't a customer. Great or not, few brokers will show a fsbo, hence this one's pointless exercise. Do you know the difference btw a customer and a client cc?

Hey Jim no boner

Do you the difference between a broker and everyone else?

Sure, we run the residential real estate market in this city. You just live here (if you actually indeed do)

So how come you take the bus?

Your mother sucks cock

Is that really how a master of NYC real estate responds?

Oh boy, now are a getting somewhere on streeteasy. Now all we need is apt23 to equate w67th's behavior to Paladino sending emails about bestiality.

apt23, did I spell bestiality right?

Wait, I found it - the apt23, w67 and bestiality posting:

apt23
about 1 hour ago
ignore this person
report abuse i will only respond to constructive, reasoned arguments.

Actually, I found W67's point cogent, succinct -- very well reasoned. Plus his colorful style adds some well-seasoned flavor to many tired arguments. While many might find his comments rather risque, you have to admit the bar for "unacceptable" took a topflight leap higher when our esteemed Republican candidate for governor, Mr. Paladino, sent pictures of bestiality across the internet.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/22685

Apt4Sale:

This is an excellent question. I have worked with quite a few buyers who have first come on to the market as FSBOS so I have a good take on this. It is possible -- if you are priced 'exactly' on point or slightly below market AND you have a unique,coveted property. The odds however are against you. Most people who are pro-FSBO will tell you that if you have the time a FSBO can sell on their own because you could advertise in all the same spots that the brokerages do i.e. The Times, Streeteasy etc. However what they don't understand is most 'serious and qualified' buyers work with a broker and even if you are offering 3%, brokers are not necessarily willing to take their clients to a FSBO unless it is a one of a kind spectacular property and/or their client sees it on their own first. Essentially you are eliminating about 90-95% percent of potential buyers by going out on your own. This is especially true if your property is at a higher price point! Buyers who do not have brokers usually (though not always) think they could get a better deal without one and even if you are priced right will often try to low ball and/or they are buyers that are really ready to buy and do not want the pressure of working with a broker. In my experience I have had properties which were FSBO before they came to be my exclusive that were on the market for a couple of months and we sold very fast once the property was officially listed. I often tell FSBOs to give it a shot on your own for a few weeks and if you get no offers - consider working with a broker (one that co-brokes --very important!) otherwise it will likely take you much longer to sell and it is unlikely you will get the price you want. Whatever you decide good luck to you.

Nicole Elyse Paikoff
Senior Associate /Corcoran Group
npaikoff@corcoran.com

Great.
Thanks.

npaik - one question why aren't brokers willing to take their clients to a FSBO if the FSBO is offering 2.5% commission. It would be almost the same commission if it were a co-broke deal.

Of course you can sell FSBO. There is also professional help out there so you are not getting that 6% rip off. Contact Tom Demsker @ Demsker Realty. He does everything a broker does except show the place(big deal) He will field calls/emails and send them to you for you to schedule a time to be home. He will set up Gotham Photo/NY Times/SE/Trulia etc. He gets volume discounts. He provides solid advice and is always available. He charges a flat fee(about $400-$800) for EVERYTHING. He will list @ 2.5% in the broker listing system. But what he really helps you with is getting that DIRECT BUYER(no broker) then you save the 6%. That's BIG money. Otherwise you pay 2.5% if buyer comes w broker.

All brokers do is pressure you to lower the price. I don't need some high school grad to tell me that. I can lower it myself so what am I paying you that 6% for again? DO IT YOURSELF OR AT LEAST GIVE IT A TRY.

So here's the scenario. Buyer sees your ad on the NY Times, emails Tom, Tom emais you and you agree on a time. Buyer shows up, likes the place, emails tom with an offer, you accept or negotiate. Tom or you then say to the buyer "OK great! Now have yur lawyer call my lawyer" You never see the buyer again until closing and save 60,000 on a million sale.

What a no f'n brainer!!!!!!!

What a no f'n NO brainer!!!!!!!

Apt4Sale, most of the people who sell FSBO are normal, nice, smart people who just want to save some money which is completely understandable. That being said, there are FSBOs that will be happy to try and cut the broker out of the equation and deal with the client directly. I have not personally experienced this but it does happen. Most of us work very hard on behalf of our clients and would not do anything to jeopardize that relationship. I do think there are brokers out there that will bring clients to FSBOs (myself included) with a signed agreement but will generally only go through this if the property is really special and priced on point. FSBOs are often off on their pricing. You should also be aware that there are services/companies that will approach you saying they could get you listed on the broker's databases and brokerages that approach you saying they will sell for a nominal commission, you should be aware that most agents still know these are FSBOs on our system and the brokerages offering you major discounts MOST of the time do not co-broke or will claim to co-broke and do everything possible to discourage another agent from bringing a client to them in order to get both sides of that 'discount' commission --these things basically do nothing to help the seller -you might as well sell on your own. Co-broking is the major thing missing from the FSBOs ability to sell on their own. Apt4sale if you have any questions please feel free to email me direct. I am happy to be of assistance.

Nicole Elyse Paikoff
Senior Associate/Corcoran Group
npaikoff@corcoran.com

Of course you can sell your apartment yourself, if you price and market it correctly. The biggest problem is that owners have a hard time seeing the moles on their own babies, so they price too high. I saw a recent FSBO of a straight studio that wasn't selling because the owner was using alcove studio comps. Or FSBOs don't see that they need renovation, and ask for move-in ready prices.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Apt4Sale - I agree with Nicole from Corcoran. I have even advised 'friends' to give it a shot on their own if they feel up it. After a few weeks of having random unqualified people walk through their apartment and professional open house visitors (those that just like to see how other people live) and countless brokers show up to your open house asking for the exclusive they ultimately decide to list with me. 5 – 6% commission may sound high to you but the reality is that we earn every penny of it. (specially the listing broker) a solid company will spend several thousand dollars on direct marketing alone. Post cards, flyers, professional photographs and video, vine and cheese events at open houses, feature listing fees on various websites. Those are all cost that the listing broker will incur. But the marketing does not stop there. A good broker will ensure that your property is listed in every possible website, ie; Street Easy, NYT, Zillow, Trilia, Craigslist, etc…. Additionally, in today’s age the power of networking is greater than ever. Exposure to your property can be limitless via social media sites such as Facebook, bebo, Hi5, Yelp, Twitter, Linked In, Youtube etc… Your property can be view by at least 100 people from each site, so you do the math.

The bottom line is that us brokers understand and sympathize with your intentions to give it a shot on your own. We (well most of us) are honest and excellent agents, but most of all we love what we do. Therefore, putting a home on the market for the first time is exciting and we work hard to get it sold. The way I’ve put it to a few past clients is that you can always represent yourself in a criminal case so why pay a professional lawyer $400 per hour to speak on your behalf.

Best of luck.

Elkin J Serna
Lic. Real Estate Salesperson
The Real Estate Group NY
Email: eserna@tregny.com

I've done 2 FSBO's, and all the brokers that called me (and, there were a LOT) told me to price HIGHER. Not a single one suggested a lower price. For the record, one of them sold, and the other didn't.

I am sorry but seriously comparing yourself to a criminal attorney? I mean there are lawyers who deal with the SEC who get $800 an hour but that is because they have access to people that you do not and get a result.

So unless you are stating that your connections will net me out a sales price that is 20% higher then it should be, then your cost is not justified.

You are taking a large cut of someone's sale price and not one real estate agent on here has given a legitimate argumaent about what the costs are and what you make in the end. Take your example, you just said several thousand to market, maybe another few thousand on food, website fees, etc, call it $5000 or so. Then you have open houses, at 2 hours stints, call it 5-10 times, still only 10-20 hours. Now you sell a 1 million home and get $60,000, you are telling me that it is not outsized to what you actually put in?

Would you pay your accountant $400 an hour for their time to meet with you and prepare a semi complex return or would you rather have a set fee that makes sense? That has always been my point, you are providing a service, no question, however while i appreciate skill, no one is worth a 6% commission on each and every sale. The seller is just getting killed and you all make it so we have no choice. As you said it is impossible to get qualified people through the door because the system at the end of the day is rigged in favor of the brokers.

99.9999999999% of a sale in re = pricing.

99.9999999999% of a good outcome in medicine = brain power /experience of doctor.

99.999999999% of a career in re brokering = failure in one's original chosen field which one has gone to school for and strived for years for.

so w67 - have you already gotten your broker license, or are you still studying for it?

Mikev,

In your example, the single broker is not getting $60,000.

It's 60,000 split between two companies assuming a co-brokered deal (which happens more than 80% of the time), so, that's now $30,000 for each company.

The listing agent then splits that with their company; a net of $15,000 that the agent takes home.

ejserna,
r u f'n kidding me? postcards and wine & cheese?!?! all for the low price of 60k. Give me a break! The only reason you guys exist is b/c the buyer THINKS he/she is getting a free service. Once buyers realize they are PAYING YOU then solicition of real estate brokers will stop. Looking on your own will be the norm. This will happen swiftly. Once word gets out it spreads fast. Everyone will be going solo. "You're using a broker? Ar you nuts, do you know how much you're paying for that "free service".....we are getting there.

Shea, who care the seller is paying 60k totally to the broker community. Who cares how you people split it up. The seller/buyer rthe ones who lose not you guys. But that is changing.

We all understand the math. I do not care how it gets split. The fact that a buyers broker could show their client 2-3 apartments and get a split of the $60k is mind blowing to me.

You clearly misunderstand the point the costs are way out of line. whether 5 people split or 10 people split. You are taking 6% of a price, what is the real justification? You will find none. Not one time on here have i heard a valid reason that 6% should be normal when you are selling manhattan real estate. It makes sense when you are selling maybe a 100-200k home, but we are talking $400k to many millions here. the fee is out of line for services performed on a breakout of an actual hourly fee.

I have never seen a sales pitch in my profession and going to a client telling them we need to charge more for an audit because they have to split the fees between many partners. If you try and raise fees clients will go elsewhere. The problem is there is no real elsewhere in the real estate world because all of them fix the fee at 5-6% and tell you that is the best they can do.

It is just to bad that selling and moving is a part of life otherwise it would be nice if we could have a general boycott against the fees.

And Shea just as a question how much do you think a brokers time is worth and be careful with your answer because many of us are professionals with extensive additonal training. Because that $15000 of time even if you assume that overall you have worked 60 hours on selling and all is $250 per hour and that is still i am sorry to say to high of a fee for a broker. I would even be generous and say a broker's time per hour is probably worth $75-150 per hour depending on the type of home you are selling.

SteveF,

Mikev said "You are taking a large cut of someone's sale price and not one real estate agent on here has given a legitimate argumaent about what the costs are and what you make in the end"

I was only answering his question as to what the individual agent makes in the end.

and i should add my buyers broker was useless and i am glad i bought a new development without a broker getting a cut. When i went to open houses over the weekends he would tell me to go by myself and then write his name as my broker. I am sorry, first off i saw the same listings he sent to me, second what is he then doing for me to earn the fee.

I think the 50/50 split brokers do is just stupid as the sellers broker is the one doing most of the work. buyers broker helps their client with a board package if necessary and that is all. that is why i do not care how the $60k gets split, it is the fact that is just to high.

Mikev says: We all understand the math. I do not care how it gets split. The fact that a buyers broker could show their client 2-3 apartments and get a split of the $60k is mind blowing to me.

Right on Mikev. It's totally unbelievable! Wake up buyers! LOOK FOR APTS ON YOUR OWN AND DEAL DIRECTLY WITH THE SELLER.....smarten up. This will give sellers who want to FSBO the tools they need for success. Knock the brokers cut out of the transaction. They just get in the way. Set your compelling price, negotiate offer/acceptance then hand off to the lawyers.

ejserna,
I can do everything you do to "market" my property(including serving the wine & cheese) and save $59,500. Transparency is coming/ignorance is leaving so is your job.

printer...... hypocrite... ring a bell?

FYI, coming from a poor background... my only goal in life was to have a lot of money and retire at my choosing.... don't see me holding open houses, does we?

minutes ago
ignore this person
report abuse Mikev says: We all understand the math. I do not care how it gets split. The fact that a buyers broker could show their client 2-3 apartments and get a split of the $60k is mind blowing to me.

Right on Mikev. It's totally unbelievable! Wake up buyers! LOOK FOR APTS ON YOUR OWN AND DEAL DIRECTLY WITH THE SELLER.....smarten up. This will give sellers who want to FSBO the tools they need for success. Knock the brokers cut out of the transaction. They just get in the way. Set your compelling price, negotiate offer/acceptance then hand off to the lawyers.

according to streeteasy there are over 20,000 active sales listings in nyc. only 85 of them are fsbo. i think our industry is safe.

yep....that's exactly what the chairman of penn central said about the trucking industry.

Wow… sounds like some of you are quite bitter. Experience, loyalty and an overall pleasant experience is priceless when you’re going through one of the biggest transactions of your life. Perhaps some of you have had some bad experiences, but I can guarantee you that fees my past clients have paid me have been worth every penny to them, otherwise they would not be returning customers and they would not refer me to their friends and family.

You are paying for a service and no matter what the splits are or who gets what at the end I personally execute to the best of my ability to ensure that everyone wins and everyone is happy.

To W67thstreet – Perhaps I’m the .000000000001% but I spent 14 years in a ‘successful’ career on Wall st. during that time I began to dabble in real estate and managed to build a very successful real estate investment portfolio. Three years ago I decided to do residential real estate in Manhattan full time because I truly do love it and because it allows me the flexibility to manage my own business and spend time with my family. So it’s not all about losers who have nowhere else to turn to.

MikeV – Sounds like you’re an auditor. You’re doing a great job at auditing the RE business. Perhaps you’re right. A percentage of the listing price set at 6% for every property may not be appropriate. But try explaining that to Carrie Chiang from Corcoran who has almost $500 million in listings. Her clients are more than happy to pay her…… As you progress in your career and become a manager and then a partner (if you’re not already) you will be worth more and more and no one will take that away from you.

SteveF - Since the late 90’s thousands have embarked in the quest to make the real estate broker obsolete. For example, Foxtons and similar outfits. Where are they now? The transparency is there and I’m always happy to empower my clients with every tool they may need if they wanted to sell their property on their own but websites don’t have the personality, patients and negotiating skills a real person has. Good luck with your quest….

These forums are here for people to learn and exchange ideas. Not to bash or discredit anyone for trying to make an honest living. Best of luck to all of you.

Cc, by what percentage do you expect fsbo listings to increase in 2011? Think they"ll double?

ejserna,jim hones, yes, your industry is safe...for now.
Did the 90s have the technology we have now? The tools are there for "Direct Buying". It's just a matter of time before the public wakes up to "Direct Selling". Sorry to be so blunt. I know this is your career but better to be aware of what can/will occurr then to be complacent and get run over.

go read the tipping point and get back to us.

to ejserna:

you said:

"Since the late 90’s thousands have embarked in the quest to make the real estate broker obsolete. For example, Foxtons and similar outfits."

really? thousands? you cited one. now, we only need 999 more examples to get to a mere thousand. or is that typical broker exaggeration?

Foxtons! Any time I saw a rare listing of theirs, I assumed I wouldn't like it. It appeared as though their brokers gravitated towards crappy listings, but I realize it was the other way around.

I think once the public becomes aware of the cost of using a broker the change will take off just like anything else that is beneficial for the consumer. More people will move if the 6% is gone. Leading to more spending(renovations etc)

Stevef, I'm as frightened by this as I am the boogeyman. The technology has been avaialble for YEARS at this point. 85 fsbo's, 20k listings. Use some computational skills and figure out the percentage. Tripe/quadruple in ten years. Still won't mean anything. People can't be bothered doing lots of things they can do for themselves, for any amount of money, yet they continue to do them. When human nature changes, then I'll be nervous.

so jim no boner.

you're in your early 30"s right?

do you figure that in ten yrs you will have screwed enough people to be able to retire?

or are you going to go out into the job market with a resume as a key turner? good luck.

My well thought out point cc, is that even if, in 10 years 400 fsbos, 20k listings, it's still terribly miniscule. won't change a thing. And human nature isn't changing in 10 years either. Most people can't be bothered. And I'm in management know by virtue of both talent and education. I might change careers before 10 years, who knows.

I am sorry but that is the dumbest thing i ever heard. Because a bunch of super wealthy people don't seem to care about hundreds of thousands of dollars the masses who are not making that sort of money should be happy to pay 6%, because the super wealthy do not think it is a big deal.

Honestly i do not to badly, no not a partner, but I still have issues with the fee structure and i always will.

And please do not name a broker who has all these listings of the fabuously wealthy because we all know they would pay someone anything as long as they do not have to deal with anything at the end of the day.

but for the rest of us mortals who do not have all this excess wealth, that $60k is a lot of money, especially if you have a mortgage and are buying a new home.

So once again i ask for a valid reason that a normal person in a average priced apartment should be paying 6%?

mikev, do you wash and iron your clothes? press your suits? polish your shoe's? what do you figure your dry cleaning bill is every month?

Columbiacounty – to clarify: What I meant by ‘thousands’ it was in way of people and not companies and I did read the tipping point. FB and Apple are the is the greatest examples of a tipping point.

SteveF – No the 90’s did not have the technology we have today but I did say “since” the 90’s. When you’re buying a home you’re not buying it at costco. So, whereas the idea and the revolution of direct buying is coming at us faster than a cat 5 hurricane, the reality is that you will always need people involved to assist with the transaction. The purchase of a home is a complicated transaction. A buyer and a seller don’t sit at a table and exchange keys for check. The public is aware of the tools that they can use to sell the home on their own. If they are not, like I said earlier…. I make sure to educate them. It comes down to a service. Those who are adamant about selling their home on their own can very well be successful. If they have the time and educate themselves about the process and don’t get emotionally involved in the negotiating process they will. In today’s society we don’t have the time and prefer to have someone else do many or our daily tasks for us. Don’t get me wrong… I don’t close my eyes to changing time and I also don’t believe for one minute that things in this industry are not going to change. I do continue to provide a service that my clients / customers need while reinventing myself in the process. A good example is the rental business…. 4 years ago it was ONLY 15% of the yearly rents, last year the owners were paying the broker fee, now there are all kinds of websites that encourage you to skip the broker. Ie: skipbrokers.com, urbanedge.com, etc…. they provide you with the management company’s web and phone number so the person can call on their own. I think that’s great. Lucky for me that I only work with people that need a rental and don’t want to be bothered calling and walking the streets in search of a good deal. They pay me to find them that deal and not waste their time. Bottom line is that the public is aware of the options and a service is only as valuable as the consumer is willing to pay for it. I can’t begin to tell you how many other services I think are overpriced. Do I still pay for them…. You bet. I pay for wash and fold….. can I do my own laundry? Yes! I pay for cable… Can I watch regular TV? Absolutely! I pay for a cleaning lady…. Can I clean my own apartment? Sure can. Would you challenge the waiter / waitress for the customary tip of 20%? All she did was take your order and bring it from the kitchen to your table. The boss boy picks up your plates serves you water bread and is the one who’s mostly around.

Mikev – it’s not as much as you think. A quick breakdown. $60,000 split between the listing and buyers broker. $30,000 to listing broker minus $5,000 for marketing = $25,000. That is split with the house. Depending on the structure the agent will get 50 – 60% of that. Using 50% that’s $12,500. After taxes agent gets $9,375. If it takes three months to sell the property the agent is looking at less than $3200 per month. And believe me….. not every property I sell is for $1mm. Does that sound like a lot of money to you?

thousands of people? really?

come on. that is a crazy exaggeration.

when did SE start? 2006, I think? what was available in NYC before that? nothing that i'm aware of. so, we're four yrs into this.

how long did amazon take to get profitable? 6-7 yrs? i think Amazon started in '95 or '96....now Borders is on the verge of bankruptcy and B&N has major issues. when amazon started the geniuses in book retailing said that you couldn't possibly sell a book to someone who couldn't touch it.

in the late 90's the newspaper business was considered the king of cash cows. now take a look.

Once again you missed the point. I do not care if there is a house, a split, etc. the end result is that they want 6%. It is not up to me how it gets split, who makes more, etc. why the house gets 50% since it is just name recognition you are getting is what it is. of course there is overhead expenses they need to cover, all the offices, admin staff, etc, i get all that. But once again not my problem.

So if we try again and say what is the value of services provided you actually just hit the nail on the head about 1%, which is your $10k you went home with. so the other 5% is pure ridiculous overhead that should not concern me. Even if you wanted to call it 2%, i could live with that. it is the other 4%.

by the way your food service example is a bad example as that is a service where it is known that waiters, busboys, etc, are underpaid and the difference is made up in tips. They could change the model if it would make you feel better and just gross up the cost of the food.

how much do you pay your cleaning lady? She works just as hard as you do and probably does a much better job at cleaning, do you pay her $100 or more per hour? And sure we can talk about dry cleaning but at least there is competion and i can find it from anywhere from $1 to 2.50 per shirt. both come out just fine, just a matter of convenience. I do my own laundry, cable tv is just another bad example as what the hell does that have to do with what we are discussing. You are off target as we are trying to describe services that are provided and the value put on them.

Lets put it this way i can sew and hem my pants, but it will not come out great, so i will ask a tailor to do it. I can and wanted to sell my apartment on my own, however the system is rigged so even if i wanted to, it is almost impossible. See the difference, I could price my apartment correctly, however since a broker will come in on the buyers side i get killed because even if i price slightly below if i give in and pay the fee i am screwed, if i price higher knowing this, i get killed because then people say FSBO overpriced.

Seriously the crap that is said to justify the 6% is getting more and more ridiculous.

the fundamental problem is the percentage fee structure.

if i'm selling a $2 million property, what does the broker do to justify the increase if fee over a $1 million property?

could be the key being turned is a bit heavier in the more costly spread??

If the contents of the more costly property are of similar greater value, the property might warrant a more secure lock, with a heavier key to carry arround and turn from time to time.

kind of a stretch, but i cant think of another reason

This is my last post and I have to call it a day because I have to get to work and earn my 6%.

Columbiacounty – I honestly don’t think that “thousands” of people is an exaggeration. Regardless that’s a stupid argument… that’s like me trying to explain to you how many people worked at foxons, and how many people had the same idea. That is what I mean.

Like I said… I’m not denying that times are changing. If you read back I don’t mention that at all. Those who will succeed in this business (and any other for that matter) are those who are constantly reinventing themselves and I’m definitely one of them so I’m not afraid. I have always embraced change and without change life would be stale.

Mikev – When you believe in something as strong as you do, no matter who I put it to you or how I paint it you will not accept my response or explanation and I can commend you for that. The greatest things about debates are that they stem from peoples believes and convictions. I can also sympathize with your opinion on the rates…. You think the service provided by a broker is not worth much and I can continue to give you examples of those services that I think are overpriced. We can challenge many industries and services that people can do on their own…. This is simply one of them.

As a matter a fact I’m going to take a poll about what services people think at overpriced and if so why do they still pay for them…

Have a great night…..

So....why don't more than 85 of 20,000 people market their property themselves. It's easy right? If selling 1 million dollar dollar apartment or a 2 million dollar apartment was so easy, why aren't there 8500 fsbos's?

67, That's very 2008. www.insurent.com.

No one here has done anything to explain why there are S0 FUCKING many fsbo listings. Anyone?

because we haven't reached the fucking tipping point, you fucking retard.

Oh, so it's just something a some people think will happen in the future? I remember when I was very young, I could have sworn we'd all have flying cars by now.....what's going to happen to change it all cc?

did you read what i said above about amazon? have you heard of amazon? did you read what i said about newspapers? do you know what a newspaper is?

have you at least heard of the tipping point? its a book.

So because some other industries have seen better times it ABSOLUTELY means mine will? Please. 95 percent of people can't negotiate for a better table in a restaurant, no less a real estate transaction. You think that you can do it, so you're making the assumption that a bit of technology means AnYONE can do it. Yet our phones keep ringing....think about it. One of my gifts is presenting something in the most obvious manner that even the biggest knuclehead, or the most biased person can't help but admit (to themselves at least), that I'm right.

you think you're invulnerable?

so did all of the other businesses.

good luck.

enjoy your 40's.

Tough comeback cc. Still have the better part of my 30's to get through, comfortable in the knowledge that a good middleman will always make a living. Meanwhile, happy hour. Smith and Wolly's today, then a haircut at John Allens (At Saks). If you can find your way from Manhattan Valley on the trains, I'll buy you a drink, or treat you to a shoeshine.

It's sad to me that selling without a broker is so difficult.

This thread has been very thought provoking for me.

what about redfin? they are not in NYC (yet), but have experienced success in many other states. They have a rebate model where the buyer gets half the commission.

boner--i actually feel sorry for you.

What broker then worth their salt would be interested in showing their listings (assuming they can get to nyc)?

boner---go take a look at the history of the stock prices of barnes and noble and borders.

Apt4sale, there are some really smart people that would try and convince you that it's a snap. I guess you don't believe them. Neither do I. I mean, if it was so easy, why would there by so few brave souls to even give it a go. Good for you, seeing through the rhetoric.

Do you think using a broker who is willing to list the apt for 4% commission is okay?

apt4sale-here is an example of a successful FSBO
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/22621-listing-apartment-fsbo-welcoming-opinions

If you price your property appropriately, have a good website, and have the time and patience to do it, you can be successful at selling FSBO. Good luck!

Cc-why? As proof of what? Failed business models? Because lazy fat people can point and click their way to the same books? Don't forget blockbuster. All that does for me is make me feel more secure. Most people can't even get off their ass' to go to a fucking bookstore---let alone navigate a home purchase. You're making me feel great! A second single malt is in order!

sorry, I meant to say what is a good example of what "a successful FSBO should do".

In nearly a year, you have failed even once to make a single valid point, and my career has continued on a great trajectory. What does that say?

hey boner---you win...enjoy your riches.

you are a genius.

Mikev, you pay the cleaning lady 100 a week. Great. 5200 per year. You could take a nice vacation with that. Make a lease payment on a Mercedes. Over a number of years it could potentially pay for your kids education. But u don't. You make a decision to have it done for you. Why? Time? Effort? Expertise? A combination?

5200 a year

shitty vacation.

1/2 to a 1/3 of a mercedes lease payment

tuition for your kid is 30K per year. looks like you'll be out of money for a while on that.

I sometimes wonder why I pay to go out for a meal. I have a stove. I have access to millions of recipes online. I even have a knack for it. But then I think about the dishes, the effort, the clean up, and I go out and have someone do it for me. Even though it costs me a lot more than it would have had I done it myself. Usually, I'm happy to have paid.

i don't think the amazon/b&n comparison is the most valid. the most valid, imo are stockbrokers - take a look at what has happened to commissions over the past 35 years. back in the day they argued vehemently that the discount model would never work - after all investing involves a lot money, stocks are complex to value, etc. but now we have a mix of discount for those who prefer to put in the time and effort to do it themselves, and full service for those who'd rather pay 1% for professional assistance, and other things in between. that's what will happen to real estate.

how much has the volume of stock trading gone up since the late 70's when deregulation went into effect? i have no idea.

Maybe I slum it, but I can have a great vacation for 5k. You're proving yourself to be an elitist cunt. C class mercedies regularly advertised at 399 per month. 5200 x 10 years is 52k. Assuming jr doesn't go to a state school, that's almost 2 yrs of higher ed, assuming you don't invest the $. To have someone pick up your dirty underwear. Why?

c class?

Google it bitch.

i know what it is.

my question is why would anyone buy one?

Further proof of you being an elitist cunt. Just because you don't want one, doesn't make it not a mercedes for less than 5k per year. What else would you like to be proved an ass about?