Why aren't you buying at these rates?

I just refid from 4.75 to 4 30yr fixed. appraised up 9% from my 2010 purchase.

Transaction costs. Broker fee + transfer tax + mansion tax + flip tax -> it really has to be a good deal to make buying worthwhile if your time horizon is 5-7 years. AMT knocking out any real estate tax benefits hurts as well.

ditto

Only counter I think is that in 5 years nobody is going to be paying brokers 6% anymore.

if you buy at this record-low rates, you have no further option down the road

we should wait till rates reach at least 7% to start buying.

Ask yourself "Why are rates so low?", Grasshopper.

because my circumstances changed. and that variable is as important to a discussion about housing as any other.

Recently refied from 5.375 to 4.5 30 yr fixed. Appraised up 25% from my January 2010 purchase.

Low rates are a big incentive to buy, but only if you can qualify for the mortgage. Mortgage qualification is biggest obstacle for most to purchase and has reduced the buyer pool significantly.

When you consider that people often buy based on on mortgage payment one should be indifferent between 4% and today's rates vs 6% and balances 20% below.

If we are all on the interest rate boat, and we are bc we are a country addicted to consume now pay later. It has to follow the next buyer with a 7% mortgage will demand the same payment as the buyer at 3% mortgage 3 yrs ago, if income is held constant. The P variable must fall to compensate. Likewise. Given historic bubble. Deflation of all bubbles historically tends to overshoot on the down side.

So Riversider. The economy added jobs. Looks like its time to bulk buy all these coops for sale. Now go get em. It'll only go up.

Prepay now of be priced out forever!

The Macy sale will never happen again.

Why aren't I buying at these prices when I'm paying all cash?

Because prices are still dropping.

"It has to follow the next buyer with a 7% mortgage will demand the same payment as the buyer at 3% mortgage 3 yrs ago, if income is held constant."

The problem is the whole if income is held constant part. Rates are unlikely to rise if income does not rise. We do not live in a vacuum where rates rise and fall and nothing else changes. The reason why rates went down is because were went into a recession. Rates are only likely to go up when we pull out of that recession, and incomes rise.

Oh that's right,w67th:
The Macy's sale buyers' discount. If you wore red yesterday you recieved 20% off the sale price of your purchase.

Jhoochie. I'd disagree. The unemployment rate of 4% with a bubble pumping $100k jobs versus the 'new' normal 4% unemployment pumping $25k Walmart jobs ain't the same.

In either case, I've made my bet by renting..... Let's see who serves whom at that old age home in 25 yrs. c u in Florida.

Ask your banking buddies... The bonuses must stop falling bf they go up.

I understand that the economy is in the toilet. Rates went down, and are not rising yet because the economy still sucks and Walmart jobs may be all that is out there. Rates going down is one reason why NYC RE and RE in the country has not totally tanked, and has only had a serious decline. I think that people fail to recognize that the economy will likely have to improve for rates to go up. If rates rise, the economy improving will offset at least some of that negative effect on RE. Depending on the strength of the recovery and the rate at which mortgage rates rise, RE could rise or fall. This view makes me a wild bull on SE. Ha.

"Ask your banking buddies... The bonuses must stop falling bf they go up. "

I am not sure if you realize, but that is kind of my point.

Economy in the toilet?
Have YOU NOT SEEN the jobs report.

The trend is...the economy is getting better.

Keep listening to these idiots like w67thstreet and you'll be in financial ruins.

The smart ones already bought between 2009 and 2011.
Anyone that haven't bought is because THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY OR CAN'T AFFORD IT.

W67thstreet is living off of his parent's and kids.
My gosh.

"I just refid from 4.75 to 4 30yr fixed. appraised up 9% from my 2010 purchase."

There you go! The smart ones already bought and value of their homes are also going UP!

"The Macy sale will never happen again. "

Prices in many good neighborhoods haven't dropped below Spring/Summer of 2009 yet.
Ya. The sale is over. You're just too stupid to not see it.

I agree that the latest round of economic data shows some signs of improvement. I think helicopter Ben is still a little hesitant to take his foot off the accelerator until he sees how Europe shakes out. It would be pretty stupid to start talking hawkish and then have to unleash QE 3 if the EU blows up.

When dropping money from a helicopter...do you use an accelerator? I don't fly one so I don't really know.

Jhoochie. U r missing my point. When I was banking, MBS desk secretaries made bigger bonuses than some of the other I bank junior bankers. Those desks no longer exist.

Banking will shrink as a % of GDP. Nyc, with maybe the exception of London, was the greatest beneficiary of the re bubble. No bubble, smaller bankers and smaller compensation. Ergo 'better' economy / jobs # but not compensation to pump up $1mm studios. Sorry ain't gonna happen.

But you knew he was going to drop the load out of the sky.
Why are you fighting it?

If you don't want to hit the toilet tomorrow, THEN STOP EATING.
Why are you trying to eat like a sumo wrestler and then need to hold your chit all day!

"When I was banking"

hahahahahaha...

You consider prostitution & pimping as banking?!??!
WTF!!

The only banking you're doing is taking money out of my 70 year old mommy and daddy's pocket and depositing it into yours.

lmao

W67th

I agree that finance will struggle to reach bubble levels, and it may never happen. Banking hopefully will shrink as a % of GDP. Bears just look at the bad though. They never see the good things happening. NYC is seeing good growth in tech right now. Silicon Alley is growing, and those are high paying jobs with the potential for huge payouts to those with stock options. My wife worked in real estate finance, and now works for a tech firm in NYC. Her starting compensation is down about 10%, but she was given options that could be worth nothing, or could be worth something significant. Bears only see the job losses and never the gains. Bears only see potential for rates to go up, and ignore the underlying fundamental strength that would be required to cause the increase in rates. I just think people should not have blinders on.

http://bronx.ny1.com/content/ny1_living/real_estate/155381/tech-boom-upgrades-expectations-in-city-s-housing-market

http://www.businessinsider.com/silicon-alley-100-2011

http://venturebeat.com/2010/12/22/google-new-york-office/

"My wife worked in real estate finance, and now works for a tech firm in NYC. Her starting compensation is down about 10%, but she was given options that could be worth nothing, or could be worth something significant. Bears only see the job losses and never the gains. Bears only see potential for rates to go up, and ignore the underlying fundamental strength that would be required to cause the increase in rates. I just think people should not have blinders on."

You nailed it.
I saw this thing turn in March 2009. I even went and bought a place in April 2009 (closed in August 2009). Yes, i put my money where my mouth is.

There are some bears that understand and did see the other side (bears that bought in 2010 (example Marco_M). They're not all the same.

ericho: You must type at the speed of light.

w67street is a joke.
He lives at home with his parents. You need to stop talking to him. Mock him yes. Reason with him..no.

"ericho: You must type at the speed of light."

There's a realestate term for this.

pinned up demand

lol.

w67th is a character.
I don't know where he lives or if his parents support him.

The only reason he's still on this thread right now is because huntersburg is busy.
Otherwise w67th does a flyby and drops in to post a comment. huntersburg swats him away.

there's an RE term for ericho...... UNDERWATER

"there's an RE term for ericho...... UNDERWATER"

lol
Show me a new development in Hunters Point, LIC that sells for below 550 psf.

I'm listening.

*rolling my eyes*

It's still cheaper to rent than buy. What I'm looking for I can rent for $3,500-4,000 easily, but it would cost me 1.3 or 1.4M to buy. I don't want to put $400,000 of "key money" to potentially lose upon resale. When/if the ratio becomes more favorable to buying, I will reconsider.

@hooch if you graph potential economic output, we were way way way above due to bubble economy. For 5 yrs the fed has kept interest rate low to mend and give time to own up to the realities of this fact. Some understand and sold. Others took the wrong side of this bet.

Now we are tracking 'closer' to potential economic output, what you term 'Good things'..... But the 5yrs of zero rates have lulled ppl into a false sense of the new 'normal'. The normal workings of capital formation does not work at 0% rates. Who would save? Then where is the capital to invest in the next miracle product to make our lives easier?

Here is a simple question that should shed light on my economic thesis.

As a cash buyer of a $2mm condo, are you a stronger bidder at 0% interest rate or 10% interest rate? And as a society should we reward those that have 'earned' enough to save $2mm or someone who can make a promise to pay back $2mm.

I've always looked at this bubble in philosophical terms, even of my own pockets would be hurt from the bubble imploding.

@truth. What r u 8yos? Hey w67 I had to wear red to get Macy discount. What you don't wanna talk to me, w67 u r a fking pussy.
Truth stfu and fk you. You fking loser.

"It's still cheaper to rent than buy. What I'm looking for I can rent for $3,500-4,000 easily, but it would cost me 1.3 or 1.4M to buy. "

Example?

Ericho. U crack me up.

'my LiC condo bought in 2007 is doing fine!'

'i refinanced!'
Omfg. U crack me up.

2009 my friend.

Why I'm not buying?

Take a look at this horseshit deal in Bklyn. It's a condo on Pacific Street in Crown Heights.

It's a neighborhood where you can't walk down the street in the daytime without looking over your shoulder. And at night, you're going to take a car service home from the subway EVERY SINGLE NIGHT.

The square footage is crap. It's billed as a two-bedroom but the bedroooms are side by side and each one's width is 8 feet -- this was a one-bedroom that was converted into a crappy two.

And the ask is $350k -- a price that will never hold up 5 years from now, or 10 years from now. We're in the middle of a Japan-style recession where at best we are going to remain steady, with high unemployment and no growth, for at least 10 years.

Not to mention what's going on the broader world -- there is a revoluation brewing worldwide, in Russia, the Middle East, China. China, Reuters says, sees NINETY THOUSANND PROTESTS PER YEAR.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/648051-condo-1263-pacific-street-crown-heights-brooklyn

Wish rates would go up - cash purchaser - low rates, shmo rates.

if rates go up, i can switch from 80% down to cash..... that would be lovely.

"I saw this thing turn in March 2009. I even went and bought a place in April 2009 (closed in August 2009). Yes, i put my money where my mouth is."

And your mouth has been chewing on cud instead of steak. Your intuition about the crisis / turn in confidence was right, but your poor analytical skills and antagonistic attitude towards it led you astray. Look at the SE index, we are flat w.r.t. 2009: the couple percent compared to the 2009 lows have been eaten up by negative carry.

What you missed, OTOH, is a doubling of th S&P since March 2009. That's where you should have put your money, where you would have if you understood the concepts of net income vs. income growth vs. price in different asset classes.

"is a doubling of th S&P since March 2009."

hahaha
What makes you think i wasn't over leverage on stock and gold? pluzzeeee

For a person that saw nothing and now complains about everything, i give you a F for intuition and another F for execution.

The fact you still live in LiC says otherwise. .....

Flmaozzzz

Flmaozzzzz

I had one more z

And you with you parents is far better?

lmao

riversider, My view is that people are still nervous about the job situation and future prospects. In addition, there is an element of "there is no rush to buy as the prices are not going up any time soon and mortgage rates are going to stay low". Economy is turning, NYC Wall street turn remains to be seen but looking at the bank stocks and SPX, it is happening. Next 6 months will tell if the sky is falling.

Within the next 6 months there may be something big falling from the sky.
Actually, launched is the word.
Because if Israel does it they won't be commended but they won't be condemned.
Somebody has to have the balls to take Iran out of the nuke picture.

why don't we just send you?

I missed the love comment from w67th to me.
I haven't been to Macys in a while. Don't wear much red either.

Hugs and kisses to you too, w67th.
How can you be a loser when your parents are supporting you?