Lawsuit question on COOP app

Well of course the COOP humpers here will say they have the right meanwhile your qualified buyer will be rejected and they still suck on your maintenence payments. SMH

Did they ask the details of the lawsuit?
If not, I'd guess they were rejected for something else.

(for the record, I volunteered info I was in a lawsuit, more to explain reduced earnings in a particular year for lawyer fees)

No they did not ask details but they were rejected because the board felt they were at risk. This was told to them via a board member who told a mouse etc.

@GuywithBat .. Did you feel your buyer was pretty qualified to make the buy ?

The buyer was highly qualified. This was the sole issue. Does anyone know if you check "no", that you were not in a lawsuit, iff they would actually check to see? Seems like honesty is not the best policy here... Thoughts?

The application tells you to explain any "Yes" responses to questions. Don't lie. Even if the building doesn't use an investigative service, there's always the chance that a lawyer on the board will remember your name or just do a quick search herself. If you'd sign your name to a lie, what else would you do?

A lot of people are in court all the time, just as part of doing business, and there's no opprobrium attached to it. A few people just love to sue, and a few others have to be sued to behave, and those're the ones the shareholders don't want to deal with.

GuywithCat, you would prefer to be a LiarwithCat?

Hb: did you retire gd? Or was the latter becoming insolent and retired?

Guywithcat: Both the co-op AND condo boards I served on asked this question in the building purchase application - and yes, we checked....

In the co-op board, if the answer given was 'no' and the actual truth was 'yes', they were immediately rejected. If the answer given was 'yes', we would simply check to see if it was an ongoing state of affairs (the person sued other parties regularly and trivially) or if had been a while ago and was a specific situation having nothing to do with a real estate, as our response to each situation would be different in each case.

In the condo there is little one can do, but that's also a downside. If someone is super litigious, especially as related to other real estate they've owned in the past, we really had no recourse (aside from enacting the contractual right of first purchase), so all the condo members can do is batten down the hatches and hope nothing happens to piss off the new owner. Otherwise, it can become a very expensive action for all involved - especially in a smaller condo if someone sues repeatedly over trivial issues.

@gRACE jones .. I respect that at least you explain your decisions for a applicant on a co-op board on answering this question.

Catguy: Board prez here. I can't say what other buildings do, but if the lawsuit is reduced to a judgment against the applicant, it will usually appear on the credit report (which is almost always drawn on an applicant). Also, it is not uncommon for board members to google applicants and look up litigation history on judicial websites. Finally, there is nothing wrong, per se, with being a plaintiff or defendant in a lawsuit. (That's almost expected as some point over a lifetime). So, your question that "I have now learned of someone who answered yes on this question and was rejected" is not telling the full story. What was the litigation about? Does the applicant have an outstanding judgment that has not been paid? Does the litigation involve some dishonesty or deceit on the part of the applicant? Does the litigation have any bearing on whether the applicant will be an responsible shareholder? Those are the issues involved and the answer to those issues may lead to a rejection. Hope this helps.

Does this include lawsuits where you are part of a class, even if you shouldn't be?

thanks. This has to do with someone buying a unit we own and we dont want them to be rejected... they sued a few people a few years ago -- minor suits -- they were not sued themselves. We are concerned either way they answer the application

Matsonjones: How do you check? Is there a service? Also if someone was named Steve Johnson or something wouldnt you get 1000 matches? Seems like an arduous task

Some co-ops use companies like kroll.com. The buyer has to pay for it, so you might see some reference to the company in your co-op's purchase requirements. E.g., for 1107 Fifth it costs nearly $2,000.

Again, if you advise the buyer to lie on the application, you're setting yourself up for trouble.

Guywithcat: Please remember that when you fill out a co-op (and nowadays many condo) applications, you're providing your social security number, your credit history, your credit card numbers, your bank and savings account numbers, your equity accounts, and so on -

Have you ever applied for a co-op or condo?!? You sound like you're unfamiliar with the process...

If a mouse was told, my guess is that a cat would definitely be rejected

@Crooks .. that why a GuywithaBat would take care of the mouse :)

Ok this all makes sense but realistically how many coops actually bother to check if you mark "no"?
Small coops on uws..not 5th avenue or anything too high end

who could possibly know the answer to this question?

more importantly, how likely is it that this particular coop will check?

So you own this unit, and it's in a small building, but you can't predict what the board will do ... are you a non-resident owner?

I would bet, sight unseen (just based on my experience with UWS buildngs; I've got a closing in a small building in the 80s tomorrow) that someone will indeed check .. but can you at least get the names of your board members and see if any of them is an attorney?

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

columbiacounty
35 minutes ago
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who could possibly know the answer to this question?
more importantly, how likely is it that this particular coop will check?

What a surprise? C0C0 with his nasty background looking at angles around legal disclosure.

Non resident owner. About 30 or so units .... Maybe 40...don't know anyone....

I think your best bet might be to call the board president (who of course can't speak for the full board, but should be something of a bellwether) and privately run the situation by him/her before accepting the offer.

ali

Anyone else here a board member who can tell me about their experience with the question as a nboard member?

I wouldn't advise lying on your application. Most co-ops will check and they have the means and resources to check. Like it was stated before if you lie and they find out you will be rejected, thats for sure. If you tell the truth and provide the reason (if prompted or not), they may easily look past that lawsuit depending on its nature and the situation.

I am not the one applying... We are the sellers

can someone ON A BOARD please tell me if they have actually checked and HOW they did so?

To anyone thinking of buying a COOP, take notice. When you want to leave, the decision is not yours. Enjoy.

Guywithcat, what is the mystery? Do you think the COOP board wants to allow someone into the club who actually was a party to a lawsuit? "Oh gosh golly, they MUST either be litigious or actually GOT SUED EVEN WORSE!!!".

Based on this, I wonder how any lawyer was ever approved for a COOP purchase?

It's incredible that I cannot get an answer from anyone ON A BOARD. Can someone ON A BOARD please tell me if you investigate when someone marks "no" and if you do investigate, how do you do it?

We've been on a few boards, but not the coop. And we had a lawsuit on our record within a few years preceding our coop application, and it was disclosed it and it was a non-issue.. And it was housing related.

Guywithcat: I believe that both I AND oldgreyhair above both answered your question(s) and we both have done board service (also as outlined above).

"...tell me if you investigate when someone marks 'no'..."

Yes, we investigated in every case for the veracity of the answer.

"...and if you do investigate, how do you do it?..."

There are a variety of ways - some times the managing company we work with does that. Sometimes a lawyer on the board does that. Sometimes it appears directly on the credit report. Sometimes googling the applicants and look up litigation history on judicial websites answers the query. Sometimes kroll is used. There are many methodologies to to investigate this aspect of the applicant's application.

What happened in your lawsuit, aboutready?

guywithcat, is your question basically... how can you find out if someone ever was party to a lawsuit? Are you kidding?

Yes, it can be done and it is not hard. lexis nexis? PACER? background check? easy. why dont you call the managing agent and ask them, lol.

We hired a lawyer to look this person up and it came back 25 lawsuits in their name and no identifying info beyond that. Many are clearly from different people as this person has a common name.. The lawyer says we need to pull the actual cases....anyway....whatever.... Thanks everyone for the answers. FYI....if you sue someone else it will not show up on a credit report.

Guywithcat:

1. if your buyer has not lived in the states wherre some of those lawsuits
were filed he was PROBABLY not a party

2. if buyer lives in Manhattan check the plaintiff-defendant indexes in
Civil Court, 111 Lafayette Street, Supreme Court, 60 Centre Street
and federal court, which is just east of Supreme Court

3. the computers in Supreme Court might cover all five boroughs

4. Civil Court disputes dont involve much money and are usually not
relevant to a person's financial capacity or character

5. Supreme and federal courrts deal with cases such as securities
fraud, money laundering, major theft. and sex offenses

6. you can also check the Criminal Court docket record at Centre
Street

http://www.pacer.gov/

Public Access To Court Electronic Records... it's all there

Gcondo pacer didn't show the actual suits just the indices....maybe we didn't access hings there properly

I accessed court cases and document via a pacer subscription - havent used it in a few years though.

For NYS courts, no need to go downtown. Use https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/webcivil/ecourtsMain for everything. The appellate courts are on a separate site whose URL I forget, but if they got that far they'll be googleable anyway.

For other states, use WestLaw or LexisNexis, but they're expensive. Good for cases where a decision was reached.

PACER is for Federal cases (bankruptcy etc.) but you have to register first and pay ten cents per page.

The companies doing research for a living must have other resources as well.

@GuywithBat .. did the Coop want him to be 3x worth the price of the apt to qualify for purchase ?

3x worth of the apartment? I don't have a relationship with the board but that seems a little excessive, no?

Anyway, I have done some more digging. I realize two board members here told me they search, but I have now spoken to half a dozen brokers and another who tell me they regularly tell their clients to mark "no" and that boards rarely search. I have also spoken to five more board members from different buildings and they all said they never check up on this question. The brokers seem to argue that the odds are better that you will get rejected if you say yes, than if you simply lie. Seems absurd. And I am not one to lie, ever. But coops are absurd. Boards focus on the tree and not the forest. So it's a no win.

I have now searched on Pacer and courts.state.ny and westlaw (at cost to me) and so far, only indices come up with reference to a case but no other identifying information besides parties to the suit and their attorneys and the decision or whether it was disposed.

I realize a whopping two board members here have weighed in but frankly I am not convinced that even they checked all the time. Kroll is terribly expensive which leads me to believe that only park avenue buildings would use it. So the rest of everyone is left with these search engines which seem to reveal nothing you can use to confirm anything about someone with a common name.
If buildings are going to go the extra yard of mental illness to get every single case in someone's name, then it is probably best that I am getting rid of this place.

Thanks again everyone. And would love more comments if you have them.

GuywithCat:

1. coop boards in Queens and Brooklyn where I own do perform litigation searches
2. I have been on Coop boards several times (I have since convinced the Devil to stop being so hard on me)

3. for me lying on an application is automatic grounds for rejection of an application
4. if an application's truthfulness is sworn to it can also be a crime

5. as to substance of lawsuits involving applicants, my primary concern would be if they
evidence conduct which is fraudulent, dishonest, criminal, mean, or demonstrates contempt
for the rights of others

6. I wold ignore most divorces and custody cases, because most dont say that much about a person
7. criminal convictions I would treat on a case by case basis

>4. if an application's truthfulness is sworn to it can also be a crime

Sworn to a private corporation?

thanks rb345. It's not a crime. swearing is what you do in court or on an affidavit, not a coop application. At worst it would be a civil issue meaning that if damages could be proven, and that would be very difficult, a suit could be filed. The suing party would need to prove the person lied, that damages were incurred and the board member(s) would need to testify. I cannot imagine any of this happening. In any event, the person applying for our coop sued someone else for fraud. The issue for the board, from my understanding, is that they don't want someone in the building who sues others because they would consider such a person a risk, in that the person could sue them. Again, this is kind of nutty but most boards contain petty, insecure people because it is the perfect home for them to express their emotional problems and be told by those around them that it is all for the common good.

I am just kidding. I don't mind board members at all. but its fun to poke a little bit.

>And I am not one to lie, ever.

Really?

Then why are you asking about this?

to bother you

Guywithcat
3 minutes ago
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Member since: Apr 2011
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to bother you

Troll

Guy with Cat: I am on our coop board. Med. building (70 units) upscale but not elite. We check always and if someone answered no and the background check said yes, we would definitely investigate further. If we discovered that the applicant lied, we would reject them on that basis alone.

Hi all. I actually disagree with almost everyone. My husband and I were basically defrauded twice in a five year period. In one case someone did not honor their part of an agreement and in the other the person basically took our money then would not take our calls. We filed suits against both of them after trying for months to resolve things. In both cases they immediately gave in and we withdrew both lawsuits. We applied to two coops and wrote very clear letters about why. Our broker and attorney told us we had ideal financials. In both cases we learned that we were rejected because the coop did not like that we had instigated two lawsuits. And this was after 8 or so months of looking for apartments, getting mortgages, paying for appraisals and going through all the stresses of the process. Despite what you may think, we don't live in a world of lawyers and lawsuits. We simply felt we had no other options. Anyway, we applied to a coop again, and simply said we had not been involved in any suits. And in fact we were accepted. Once we were in the building we learned they did not check. So I would say I disagree with the board members making their suggestions.

CO-OPS WILL MAKE YOU COMMIT SUICIDE !!! http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/banker_leaps_over_th_ave_dog_fight_qHJsW7JboakuFOczFzlOTN

I checked no lawsuits and the prospective managing agent a search and found an old civil court action from over ten years ago that I knew nothing about. I went down to the court to get a copy of the file and it was in storage. Luckily nothing came of it but it was uncovered.

this is all very interesting. Others? Can any board members let me know that they DONT search?

bump?

dude, if they ask, you should assume someone is going to do a background check. If the action is in another state, for which prior residency is not indicated on the application, it is likely they will not search the state level for every state. however, I would expect NY and Federal level actions that made it to court to be discovered... I think you should "go" on that assumption.

Now, it seems likely you were the one that is party to a lawsuit and you cant figure out if you should check the box. Want my advice? Buy a condo.