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How about a discussion about the "Supertalls"? Is NY ready for this and how it will impact city and property values. From architizer.com An interview with Carol Willis, Dir of Skyscraper Museum. “I defend these buildings against people who take moral offense because ‘only wealthy people live in them,’” says Carol Willis, the director of Skyscraper Museum. She isn’t talking about Justin Davidson’s... [more]
How about a discussion about the "Supertalls"? Is NY ready for this and how it will impact city and property values. From architizer.com An interview with Carol Willis, Dir of Skyscraper Museum. “I defend these buildings against people who take moral offense because ‘only wealthy people live in them,’” says Carol Willis, the director of Skyscraper Museum. She isn’t talking about Justin Davidson’s epic takedown of the luxury residential tower One57 in New York Magazine a few weeks earlier, but she might as well be. “All they are doing is playing by the rules of the 1960s. To me, it’s fair play.” It’s a refreshing perspective. Preposterously tall, anorexically slender residential buildings are popping up all across Manhattan, like it or not. Maybe I’m out of touch with the zeitgeist of post-Bloomberg backlash, but I think they’re exciting additions to the skyline, and I’m meeting Willis in her museum’s current exhibition, “Sky High & the Logic of Luxury,” to understand why. “It’s about slender, not tall,” she says as we walk to the front of the gallery. “Slenderness is a strategy for luxury.” In an engineering context, “slenderness” has a precise definition: a height-to-width-ratio of at least 10:1 or 12:1. Think of a ruler standing on its end, or the proportions of the 617-foot-high, 50-foot-wide One Madison. Willis points to a collage of eight renderings of super-skinny residential buildings that will soon pierce the sky. It’s about exclusivity, she explains: the fewer apartments per floor, the more exclusive the building, and the more each unit is worth. She contrasts a residential building like the world’s current tallest, the Princess Tower in Dubai, which has more than 700 apartments, with One57, which has only 135—many of them full-floor. “People don’t realize how new this is, but it comes step-by-step out of the 1980s,” she says as we approach a model of the Darth Vader-like, black-glass wedge of SOM’s 1987 Metropolitan Tower at 146 West 57th Street. Until that time, “New York was really organized as a co-op town.” By the '80s, however, buildings like the Trump and Olympic Towers on Fifth Avenue revealed a market of wealthy buyers, many from abroad, who wanted private pieds-à-terre. High-rise condos sprang up all over the city, but they weren’t particularly slender. Then financier Sanford I. Weill sold his penthouse at 15 Central Park West in February 2012 for a then-record $88 million. At $13,000 per square foot, the financial calculus had changed. “It’s the value of the per-square-foot that makes super-slender possible,” she says. “You can spend a lot of money if you think there’s a market that will support five thousand, six thousand dollars per square foot.” The ability to engineer super-slenderness had been around for decades, but the financial rationale was missing. “Everyone thought it was economically preposterous, until people started paying 45, 88 million for an apartment. It’s perfectly logical, but the logic hadn’t been demonstrated until the last round.” Willis walks me over to a model of Rafael Viñoly’s 432 Park Avenue, soon to be the tallest residential building in the western hemisphere at 1396 feet, and the star of the exhibition. On a touchscreen she scrolls across the panoramic views from a penthouse that hasn’t even been constructed yet, the photos taken by remote-controlled drone. She explains how reducing the footprint of the core generates maximum revenue. Compared with an office tower, a residential building—especially one with only one or two units per floor—requires far fewer elevators: 432 Park Avenue has only two, plus one service elevator. Viñoly’s office also designed an intertwined scissor stair that reduced the stair area 10% and generated “luxurious” floor-to-floor heights of 15' 6". The stair, together with the developable air rights that developer Harry Macklowe pieced together from adjacent buildings, accounts for the tower’s breathtaking height. Willis clearly admires the building: “Everything about it is guided by a logic that has a mathematical purity,” she says. She points to its expressive structure, in the exposed concrete grid; to the nearly 10-foot-square windows, at the bleeding edge of glass engineering; and to the recessed wind baffles, which break up the building mass every 12 stories. But the 15:1 slenderness of 432 Park Avenue has nothing on SHoP’s 111 West 57th Street, which zips upward from the courtyard of the historic Steinway Building at a ratio of 23:1. With feathered setbacks at its peak to conform to the zoning envelope, Willis likens it to a feather quill set in an inkwell. The model included in the exhibition towers above my head, almost high enough to brush its reflection reaching downward in the ceiling. I ask Willis whether she expects to see many more of these super-slender buildings, but she says not many. They result from very specific, very limited site conditions. So many cluster around 57th Street because the zoning allows tall buildings there, and the Central Park views appeal to luxury buyers, encouraging developers to aim for loftier heights. 99 Church Street, a Four Seasons condo-hotel designed by Robert A. M. Stern, the architect of 15 Central Park West, and the condo tower 50 West Street, by Helmut Jahn, both fall within one of Lower Manhattan’s high-rise zoning districts. Diller Scofidio + Renfro’s Tower D will be located in the Hudson Yards insta-neighborhood. And Herzog & de Meuron’s 56 Leonard Street, an anomaly in predominantly low-rise Tribeca, used up the air rights from New York Law School next door. With a shiny, derivative bean wedged next to the entrance, the targeted buyer is clearly the art collector who has no taste—and it’s working. As I write this, all but five units are under contract. “All these things work together,” Willis says, meaning land price, zoning, air rights, celebrity architects' fees, engineering and construction costs, views, art, and the number of apartments per floor. “The logic is exclusivity, but it’s supported by a simple math.” In a way, she's simply extending the analysis of her excellent 1995 book Form Follows Finance: given certain conditions of market demand, zoning, and engineering, the basic shape of a skyscraper is almost a fait accompli. Don't like it? You might as well rage against the tide. And bemoaning the height of these buildings as anti-urban blight misses an important fact about the transfer of developable air rights: “These buildings use up the low space—they use it up forever.” That is, relocating the stratospherically wealthy into the stratosphere, paradoxically, brings more light and air down to the rest of us. “I think these really add enormously to the city,” she says. “All these buildings end up being one more chapter, one more card in the deck of the extraordinary type that this city spawns.” [less]
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Supertalls help reinforce the status of the city not just for the superrich who can afford such trophy apartments. Very few people will live in them. Far more will crane their necks and look up in awe. New York city will be richer for them. 56 Leonard is even a beautiful structure. 423 Park is also starkly interesting.
If people want to spend $50k in taxes and another $50k in monthlies for pied-a-terre as well as periodically visiting and blowing a few thousand at stores and restaurants, that's all fine by me. As well as the constuction jobs and all the associated costs of building these places, it's all money flowing to our great city that woulnd't otherwise have come.
I think that 432 Park more than any other is iconic and maybe even symbol of New New York. For the longest time it seems like there was nothing new. The International Style that was so popular in the 80s & 90s looks so dated and tired. These new supertalls, elegant, and thin make a strong statement. I don't think it was meant to be a coherent approach but no other world class city is taking such a unified approach. Look at the mess in China, grandiose projects for only the sake of trying to outdo the other guy.
@Oxy, nobody at One57 will be paying anything near $50K in taxes, because the building has a 421a abatement. Per the New York Times, the penthouse buyer will pay slightly less than $18,000 a year in taxes, at least to start. The cheapest one-bedroom is projected to have taxes of $1,157 a year.
To give you a measure of what a *shonda* that is, the property taxes on my condo studio (which is three blocks away, and, um, more than eighty years old) are a shade under $7,000 per year.
ali r.
DG Neary Realty
Hahahaha. Yeah but you got your tax abatement 50yrs ago.
What will have a bigger impact on nyc Re. Abating abatement? Or 100bps rise in mortgages?
Hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa
When I glanced at the subject line, I thought this thread was about huge elections.
FP, don’t get me started. If the Boudreaux hadn’t kicked in I’d quote something appropriate from the Fountainhead.
alan, do you drink Boudreaux?
greenberg, Zillow is a family website ... keep it clean.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudreaux
a family web site?
Just think of the real estate taxes the city will collect going forward. Many of the buyers aren't thinking about them, true, but they have twenty years to adjust. Wait, some of the shorter-term abatements are close to ending now. Oops.
Someone's got to collect taxes to pay for that undeserved windfall that you received at taxpayer expense and at the cost of higher rent payments by others.
Ali, One57 isn't affordable housing; what's the rationale for not having them pay fair taxes?
Ali, I agree that the system for setting property taxes is crazy. It should be linked to value. The current system isn't at all fair. My taxes are around $24k a year. Even after abatement the penthouse may be $180k a year. I can assure my apartment isn't worth anywhere neaer $10MM. I think the penthouse should be paying closer to $750k a year.
However, that is my beef, not the 421a. 10 years is a relatively short period. The city gets a benefit far, far greataer than the 421a abatements as a result of the development of this site.
I guess the point I was trying to make that all things being equal, a mega-tower will yield more taxes than the prior property and the incremetnal demand on city services as a result of the extra population will be negligible.
peeps, check out the 432 Park website
http://432parkavenue.com/
I literally have to digest the scale and potential impacts of that thing before I can formulate an opinion.
Wow! Gonna be a whole new city in our lifetimes.
@drdrd, the building (along with four others) was granted a special exemption from that rule by the state legislature. It's been alleged that that carve-out was probably worth $50mm, and was tit-for-tat in exchange for political contributions of about $1.5 mm to both parties. Beyond my scope to say whether that's true.
The more interesting question is whether @oxy is right -- assuming that the purchasers in these hyper-luxury buildings are pied-a-terre owners, do they contribute more economically to the city than the people they displaced (presumably middle class/upper middle class permanent residents). Is it worth more to the city to have poorer people paying income taxes (as well as sales taxes on whatever their day-to-day purchases are), or richer people showing up for brief periods of time, presumably doing some high-level shopping, and paying sales taxes on those luxury purchases?
I don't know the answer -- but I bet think-tanky people do.
ali r.
No one was displaced in the case of 432 Park which is being built on the site of the tired Drake Hotel.
West34 - Yes, you are correct. In a few weeks 432 will rise above the surrounding plateau of around 500-600 ft and people will start to take notice. This is very striking design that will tower above all else. The total height of 1400 ft is totally usable. No fake tower or antennae here.
There will be a spine of several supertalls along 57th. One 57 will actually be the shortest!
Re: There will be a spine of several supertalls along 57th.
Consider the new highly perspective-centric skyline. View from east or west at 57th street latitude and it's "one" huge skyscraper. Drive north and they become a wall blocking the ESB, Chrysler, lower Manhattan etc from view. And the Central Park shadows as recently reported in the NYT are gonna be insane.
The best renderings of the future:
http://gizmodo.com/four-of-americas-tallest-buildings-are-being-built-on-1327172554
Live amongst the billionaires for less than $800 psf!!!!:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/addison-hall
(best long-term investment in town right now?)
uwsbeagle, I am SO old I remember when the Drake was a nice hotel.
@West34.
The rendering is good but doesn't it now exclude the Nouvel building next to Moma? Only 1,000ft high but will still change the view.
I think the other interesting thing about these new mega buildings is that none of them are in truly desirable locations. 56 Leonard at least has the cachet of Tribeca but all the rest are in midtown. 432 Park is on Park but south of 61st the feel is certainly not Upper East Side.
I think some of these project may start to fall flat. The trophy apartments will sell but the lower floors (as the rumor is with One57) will need to be priced competitively. The only draw to some of these buildings is the view above everything. If you don't have that, you're ultimately in apartment much like any other box of glass. Ok, Addison Hall may not be the best comparable, but I can't think of too many who would want to pay $3,000 a square foot to live in midtown without a central park view.
WTC vs. Banksy
First as a Bostonian in transition, how about those Red Sox!!!
Banksy calls the WTC “104 floors of compromise”, and a “shy skyscraper”, and says “the terrorist have won”. What do you think?
Personally, although this may offend some, I’ve felt that way and didn’t know how to express it, and think it is a poor and compromised design. Moving the emphasis to Midtownn with the new supertalls balances the sky line putting the apex in the middle of the island.
Also, all the midtown development will result in an increase in property values and the tax base.