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Huge Erections

Started by ieb
about 12 years ago
Posts: 355
Member since: Apr 2009
Discussion about
How about a discussion about the "Supertalls"? Is NY ready for this and how it will impact city and property values. From architizer.com An interview with Carol Willis, Dir of Skyscraper Museum. “I defend these buildings against people who take moral offense because ‘only wealthy people live in them,’” says Carol Willis, the director of Skyscraper Museum. She isn’t talking about Justin Davidson’s... [more]
Response by Oxymoronic
about 12 years ago
Posts: 165
Member since: Dec 2007

Supertalls help reinforce the status of the city not just for the superrich who can afford such trophy apartments. Very few people will live in them. Far more will crane their necks and look up in awe. New York city will be richer for them. 56 Leonard is even a beautiful structure. 423 Park is also starkly interesting.

If people want to spend $50k in taxes and another $50k in monthlies for pied-a-terre as well as periodically visiting and blowing a few thousand at stores and restaurants, that's all fine by me. As well as the constuction jobs and all the associated costs of building these places, it's all money flowing to our great city that woulnd't otherwise have come.

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Response by ieb
about 12 years ago
Posts: 355
Member since: Apr 2009

I think that 432 Park more than any other is iconic and maybe even symbol of New New York. For the longest time it seems like there was nothing new. The International Style that was so popular in the 80s & 90s looks so dated and tired. These new supertalls, elegant, and thin make a strong statement. I don't think it was meant to be a coherent approach but no other world class city is taking such a unified approach. Look at the mess in China, grandiose projects for only the sake of trying to outdo the other guy.

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Response by front_porch
about 12 years ago
Posts: 5316
Member since: Mar 2008

@Oxy, nobody at One57 will be paying anything near $50K in taxes, because the building has a 421a abatement. Per the New York Times, the penthouse buyer will pay slightly less than $18,000 a year in taxes, at least to start. The cheapest one-bedroom is projected to have taxes of $1,157 a year.

To give you a measure of what a *shonda* that is, the property taxes on my condo studio (which is three blocks away, and, um, more than eighty years old) are a shade under $7,000 per year.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

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Response by w67thstreet
about 12 years ago
Posts: 9003
Member since: Dec 2008

Hahahaha. Yeah but you got your tax abatement 50yrs ago.

What will have a bigger impact on nyc Re. Abating abatement? Or 100bps rise in mortgages?

Hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa

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Response by alanhart
about 12 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007

When I glanced at the subject line, I thought this thread was about huge elections.

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Response by ieb
about 12 years ago
Posts: 355
Member since: Apr 2009

FP, don’t get me started. If the Boudreaux hadn’t kicked in I’d quote something appropriate from the Fountainhead.

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Response by fieldschester
about 12 years ago
Posts: 3525
Member since: Jul 2013

alan, do you drink Boudreaux?

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Response by alanhart
about 12 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007

greenberg, Zillow is a family website ... keep it clean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudreaux

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Response by fieldschester
about 12 years ago
Posts: 3525
Member since: Jul 2013

a family web site?

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Response by aboutready
about 12 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007

Just think of the real estate taxes the city will collect going forward. Many of the buyers aren't thinking about them, true, but they have twenty years to adjust. Wait, some of the shorter-term abatements are close to ending now. Oops.

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Response by fieldschester
about 12 years ago
Posts: 3525
Member since: Jul 2013

Someone's got to collect taxes to pay for that undeserved windfall that you received at taxpayer expense and at the cost of higher rent payments by others.

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Response by drdrd
about 12 years ago
Posts: 1905
Member since: Apr 2007

Ali, One57 isn't affordable housing; what's the rationale for not having them pay fair taxes?

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Response by Oxymoronic
about 12 years ago
Posts: 165
Member since: Dec 2007

Ali, I agree that the system for setting property taxes is crazy. It should be linked to value. The current system isn't at all fair. My taxes are around $24k a year. Even after abatement the penthouse may be $180k a year. I can assure my apartment isn't worth anywhere neaer $10MM. I think the penthouse should be paying closer to $750k a year.

However, that is my beef, not the 421a. 10 years is a relatively short period. The city gets a benefit far, far greataer than the 421a abatements as a result of the development of this site.

I guess the point I was trying to make that all things being equal, a mega-tower will yield more taxes than the prior property and the incremetnal demand on city services as a result of the extra population will be negligible.

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Response by West34
about 12 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

peeps, check out the 432 Park website

http://432parkavenue.com/

I literally have to digest the scale and potential impacts of that thing before I can formulate an opinion.

Wow! Gonna be a whole new city in our lifetimes.

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Response by front_porch
about 12 years ago
Posts: 5316
Member since: Mar 2008

@drdrd, the building (along with four others) was granted a special exemption from that rule by the state legislature. It's been alleged that that carve-out was probably worth $50mm, and was tit-for-tat in exchange for political contributions of about $1.5 mm to both parties. Beyond my scope to say whether that's true.

The more interesting question is whether @oxy is right -- assuming that the purchasers in these hyper-luxury buildings are pied-a-terre owners, do they contribute more economically to the city than the people they displaced (presumably middle class/upper middle class permanent residents). Is it worth more to the city to have poorer people paying income taxes (as well as sales taxes on whatever their day-to-day purchases are), or richer people showing up for brief periods of time, presumably doing some high-level shopping, and paying sales taxes on those luxury purchases?

I don't know the answer -- but I bet think-tanky people do.

ali r.

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Response by uwsbeagle
about 12 years ago
Posts: 285
Member since: Feb 2012

No one was displaced in the case of 432 Park which is being built on the site of the tired Drake Hotel.

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Response by ieb
about 12 years ago
Posts: 355
Member since: Apr 2009

West34 - Yes, you are correct. In a few weeks 432 will rise above the surrounding plateau of around 500-600 ft and people will start to take notice. This is very striking design that will tower above all else. The total height of 1400 ft is totally usable. No fake tower or antennae here.

There will be a spine of several supertalls along 57th. One 57 will actually be the shortest!

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Response by West34
about 12 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

Re: There will be a spine of several supertalls along 57th.

Consider the new highly perspective-centric skyline. View from east or west at 57th street latitude and it's "one" huge skyscraper. Drive north and they become a wall blocking the ESB, Chrysler, lower Manhattan etc from view. And the Central Park shadows as recently reported in the NYT are gonna be insane.

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Response by West34
about 12 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009
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Response by West34
about 12 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

Live amongst the billionaires for less than $800 psf!!!!:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/addison-hall

(best long-term investment in town right now?)

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Response by front_porch
about 12 years ago
Posts: 5316
Member since: Mar 2008

uwsbeagle, I am SO old I remember when the Drake was a nice hotel.

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Response by Oxymoronic
about 12 years ago
Posts: 165
Member since: Dec 2007

@West34.

The rendering is good but doesn't it now exclude the Nouvel building next to Moma? Only 1,000ft high but will still change the view.

I think the other interesting thing about these new mega buildings is that none of them are in truly desirable locations. 56 Leonard at least has the cachet of Tribeca but all the rest are in midtown. 432 Park is on Park but south of 61st the feel is certainly not Upper East Side.

I think some of these project may start to fall flat. The trophy apartments will sell but the lower floors (as the rumor is with One57) will need to be priced competitively. The only draw to some of these buildings is the view above everything. If you don't have that, you're ultimately in apartment much like any other box of glass. Ok, Addison Hall may not be the best comparable, but I can't think of too many who would want to pay $3,000 a square foot to live in midtown without a central park view.

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Response by ieb
about 12 years ago
Posts: 355
Member since: Apr 2009

WTC vs. Banksy

First as a Bostonian in transition, how about those Red Sox!!!

Banksy calls the WTC “104 floors of compromise”, and a “shy skyscraper”, and says “the terrorist have won”. What do you think?

Personally, although this may offend some, I’ve felt that way and didn’t know how to express it, and think it is a poor and compromised design. Moving the emphasis to Midtownn with the new supertalls balances the sky line putting the apex in the middle of the island.

Also, all the midtown development will result in an increase in property values and the tax base.

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