I'm a buyer and I personally reached out to a seller's agent to see some condo's coming on the market. I'm not represented by a buyer's agent but the seller's agent asked me to sign a form saying she acting as a buyer's agent, a dual agent, a dual agent with designated sales agent, and advanced informed consent dual agency. She sent me the following e-mail after I refused to sign anything,... [more]
I'm a buyer and I personally reached out to a seller's agent to see some condo's coming on the market. I'm not represented by a buyer's agent but the seller's agent asked me to sign a form saying she acting as a buyer's agent, a dual agent, a dual agent with designated sales agent, and advanced informed consent dual agency. She sent me the following e-mail after I refused to sign anything, especially before I even saw the apartment. Essentially she won't show me anything in the building unless I sign. Is her argument real?
Hi-
Every buyer that has not had a broker has signed this form prior to seeing the apts-
It is not my rule, but a Rebny rule-
It protects you, me and the sellers.
This is a condo conversion and the prices are set with the AG-
If you want to have a broker then you should decide that prior to coming to the bldg.
If you came and then decided to use a broker then basically your broker didn't find you the apt or attend the visit.
This is why we have this form.
I am following the rules.
You can let me know on Monday but I am unable to show without this signed if I am showing you on my own.
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I'm a broker, not an attorney ... and nothing I say should be taken as legal advice.
However, with new condo development, the co-brokerage rules from REBNY (which is a trade association that most of us belong to, not a legal entity) are different (and much, much tighter) than they are with resales. Generally with new developments, the marketing firms (and it sounds like this broker works for one) want you to bring your broker at first or second showing (each building has a different rule) or your broker doesn't get paid. So this marketing person is trying to enforce that rule, and to do it she's using a NYS legally mandated form about agent disclosure.
I think that's confusing, to use that second piece of paper (which you can certainly refuse to sign; New York State thinks it's fine if you don't sign it) to fulfill that first requirement.
But since that's what she seems to be doing, it does seem like in practice, you should either a) hire a buyer's broker and bring them to the first (and second) viewing in this building or b) sign the disclosure form. You do have the right to go "unrepresented" which means that the listing agent should fill out the form as "seller's agent" -- you have the right to refuse her as a buyer's agent, and the right to refuse her dual agency.
Since it sounds like that's not her understanding of the disclosure form, you might end up fighting with her about this... but her asking you to waive your right to bring in a buyer's broker and her asking you to accept her as a buyer's broker are actually two different things, and IMHO it's a little slippery to conflate them.
Just my two, non-legal advice cents.
ali r.
{downtown broker}
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Response by crescent22
over 11 years ago
Posts: 953
Member since: Apr 2008
Those two are right. The dual agent disclosure form does not state in any way that the Seller's agent becomes your agent. My opinion is it is ok to sign that one only and change or bring in a buyer's agent later (though not sure about condo conversions in general). Better be sure what the listing agent wants you to sign. You can try to arm yourself with NY State laws or REBNY rules and go over the head of the listing agent to his boss to try to break in and get shown the places.
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Response by Flutistic
over 11 years ago
Posts: 516
Member since: Apr 2007
I got in several fights about this before we bought our condo. In this market, where qualified buyers are a dime a dozen, you have no choice but to do whatever the seller's AGENT tells you to do. I would advise against anything else if you want a place to live for the best possible price. FP is right but being right is irrelevant, they got you by the gonads.
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Response by david87
over 11 years ago
Posts: 29
Member since: Mar 2012
I am not an attorney and this is not legal advise, but as far as I know that form is supposed to protect the client, not the broker. You don't have to sign it if you don't want to and the listing broker should know better. Also, it is not supposed to be used to become Dual Agent, that's a consent that you can give or not. It is not true that if you don't sign they don't get paid, they just don't know how it works and/or are using the form as a tool against you. Refusing to show a property for not signing it is crazy and should be reported to the DOS.
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Was it https://www.dos.ny.gov/forms/licensing/1736-a.pdf ? If so, your signing it just means you got the disclosure. If you don't want to sign it, then get a broker to represent you.
I'm a broker, not an attorney ... and nothing I say should be taken as legal advice.
However, with new condo development, the co-brokerage rules from REBNY (which is a trade association that most of us belong to, not a legal entity) are different (and much, much tighter) than they are with resales. Generally with new developments, the marketing firms (and it sounds like this broker works for one) want you to bring your broker at first or second showing (each building has a different rule) or your broker doesn't get paid. So this marketing person is trying to enforce that rule, and to do it she's using a NYS legally mandated form about agent disclosure.
I think that's confusing, to use that second piece of paper (which you can certainly refuse to sign; New York State thinks it's fine if you don't sign it) to fulfill that first requirement.
But since that's what she seems to be doing, it does seem like in practice, you should either a) hire a buyer's broker and bring them to the first (and second) viewing in this building or b) sign the disclosure form. You do have the right to go "unrepresented" which means that the listing agent should fill out the form as "seller's agent" -- you have the right to refuse her as a buyer's agent, and the right to refuse her dual agency.
Since it sounds like that's not her understanding of the disclosure form, you might end up fighting with her about this... but her asking you to waive your right to bring in a buyer's broker and her asking you to accept her as a buyer's broker are actually two different things, and IMHO it's a little slippery to conflate them.
Just my two, non-legal advice cents.
ali r.
{downtown broker}
Those two are right. The dual agent disclosure form does not state in any way that the Seller's agent becomes your agent. My opinion is it is ok to sign that one only and change or bring in a buyer's agent later (though not sure about condo conversions in general). Better be sure what the listing agent wants you to sign. You can try to arm yourself with NY State laws or REBNY rules and go over the head of the listing agent to his boss to try to break in and get shown the places.
I got in several fights about this before we bought our condo. In this market, where qualified buyers are a dime a dozen, you have no choice but to do whatever the seller's AGENT tells you to do. I would advise against anything else if you want a place to live for the best possible price. FP is right but being right is irrelevant, they got you by the gonads.
I am not an attorney and this is not legal advise, but as far as I know that form is supposed to protect the client, not the broker. You don't have to sign it if you don't want to and the listing broker should know better. Also, it is not supposed to be used to become Dual Agent, that's a consent that you can give or not. It is not true that if you don't sign they don't get paid, they just don't know how it works and/or are using the form as a tool against you. Refusing to show a property for not signing it is crazy and should be reported to the DOS.