119th & Third Condominiums

I'd say go for it if you really like it and are comfortable with the purchase. It'll be difficult to find a good 1 bed room under $500k in Central and West Harlem. How is the area? ....As I recall it's got a very long way to go.

OP you are so clearly a broker...sales have only been open for your days and this poster no one has heard of before on this website is in love with the property?

Prediction you and Dave do not get enough pre-sales and the building never gets built. In today's lending environment, in East Harlem, I have to imagine you need to be 90% presold before anyone will write a construction loan.

to realestatejunkie-construction loans are loans given to builders. Do your homework this project needs no such loan. If you mean a mortgage loan then the presold number comes into play and its no where near 90% this varies from lender to lender.

With respect to your prediction, again your wrong it seems like its going up before our eyes.

yep, realestatejunkie was wrong about his/her prediction and I guess does not know anything about the project or construction loans...it's getting close to being complete and is actually selling well and is located across the street from the new Hunter College site which will be a great addition to the neighborhood. The East River Plaza is also scheduled to open in 2009 as well which will invigorate the neighborhood further. I think this is the property to watch and they just released some 2 bedroom apartments for under 500K. They also have a beautiful model apartment already completed for buyers to actually see the quality of materials being used. I saw it and it is gorgeous!

Daniel

Seems like they are reducing all remaining inventory by 15 percent. Still think the the prices are high for that area.

Not sure where you are getting this informaiton about ythe building selling well. The developers just announcd the building will be converted into a rental building. Not sure why people feel the need to lie on this board and suggest sales were doing very well.

...Not sure why people feel the need to lie on this board and suggest sales were doing very well

L O L

their name spell B R O K E R

Yep rental. However, very overpriced for East or Centtral Harlem - and I mean compared to actually currently vacant brand new doorman rentals in Harlem. Just look those up on Streeteasy and see that these are all like 50% more per SF - no joke - 50% more than say 333 east 102nd, 1481 5th, susan's court or the rentals available at condo buildings like Kahlahari.

In other words, they are charging below 96th street prices for 119th and 3rd.

http://www.119thandthird.com/

I have a friend who lives on East 119th, between First and Second Avenues. It was a brand-new HUD development, really nice 2-bedroom, 2-bath. Unfortunately, it's nearly impossible for him to get friends to come over because the neighborhood is downright scary. And being so far away from the subway doesn't help; it's one thing to be a hike from the subway on the East Side, when the hike is, say, along 79th Street. Up on 119th, for many visitors, it's more like a mad dash, looking over your shoulder, hand tightly clutching the pepper spray.

I think he, like many other urban pioneers who ventured above 96th Street and deep into Brooklyn, were banking on crazy real estate prices to push all the other "regular" people into these marginal neighborhoods, thus forcing a gentrification. Unfortunately, with the drop in the market, that's not happening -- at least, not as quickly as these pioneers were hoping. Now my friend -- and everyone else who bought in that building -- are stuck in a neighborhood that's not getting any less scarier.

Well obviously you don't want it because it has a tax abatement, which limits your TAX DEDUCTION stupids!

Why do I think that didodido's other name is "Broker Dave"?

And now that the building is overpriced rentals, IT'S EVEN A BETTER DEAL!

Well, when I lived on the edge of FiDi/BPC, I could also never get friends to come way down there...same for everyone else I knew down there. I thin kthe distance has more to do with it.

And you know I love my crime stats. 10035 is safer pretty much across the board than 10007 (Tribeca) or 10011 (Meatpacking), and I am sure his friends go to those places. The only reason people think its scary is because they are racist and think latin and black people are all out to rob them. From

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/classifieds/realestate/locations/newyork/newyorkcity/manhattan/index.html

Crime (100 = US average)
Total crime risk 111
Personal crime risk 161
Murder risk 138
Rape risk 67
Assault risk 143
Property crime risk 102
Burglary risk 56
Larceny risk 96
Motor vehicie theft risk 111

__________________________________________

Now compare that to meatpacking - 10011
Crime
Total crime risk 141
Personal crime risk 218
Murder risk 140
Rape risk 85
Assault risk 221
Property crime risk 118
Burglary risk 97
Larceny risk 98
Motor vehicie theft risk 111

Lincoln Square - 10023
Crime
Total crime risk 134
Personal crime risk 226
Murder risk 121
Rape risk 88
Assault risk 149
Property crime risk 95
Burglary risk 49
Larceny risk 84
Motor vehicie theft risk 109

Tribeca - 10007
Crime
Total crime risk 117
Personal crime risk 162
Murder risk 151
Rape risk 43
Assault risk 207
Property crime risk 113
Burglary risk 47
Larceny risk 197
Motor vehicie theft risk 78

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/11161-what-are-they-thinking

"The only reason people think its scary is because they are racist and think latin and black people are all out to rob them. "

Or maybe people think it's scary because it IS scary. The buildings are crumbling, drug deals are conducted in the open, gunshots are not unusual, and garbage is everywhere.

But wait - have more. West village 10014 - WAAAAy higher than 10035 in East Harlem

Crime
Total crime risk 213
Personal crime risk 316
Murder risk 190
Rape risk 88
Assault risk 343
Property crime risk 187
Burglary risk 167
Larceny risk 119
Motor vehicie theft risk 186

Soho - 10012

Crime
Total crime risk 174
Personal crime risk 266
Murder risk 190
Rape risk 94
Assault risk 361
Property crime risk 146
Burglary risk 123
Larceny risk 116
Motor vehicie theft risk 137

Gramercy Park 10003

Crime
Total crime risk 134
Personal crime risk 195
Murder risk 138
Rape risk 99
Assault risk 131
Property crime risk 123
Burglary risk 90
Larceny risk 74
Motor vehicie theft risk 138

again, all FBI crime stats, based on the past 7 years of FBI crime data - all from

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/classifieds/realestate/locations/newyork/newyorkcity/manhattan/index.html

People get angry and say I am a "race baiter", but honestly since the crime stats don't back up the claim that this particular area is "scary", it has no basis in fact. There ARE some very high crime Black and Latino areas in NYC - with higher crime rates than any of the above. just not in Manhattan, for the most part. And the higher crime areas are often, perversely, the hippest parts where (white) people "feel" safer.

So

And for full discloser, I personally live in a higher crime part of Harlem than 10035. But its still safer than Soho or the West Village, not as safe as Meatpacking or Lincoln Square. All of the above and below are less safe than Roosevelt Island, BPC, or Inwood.

Crime
Total crime risk 125
Personal crime risk 189
Murder risk 142
Rape risk 84
Assault risk 154
Property crime risk 107
Burglary risk 85
Larceny risk 125
Motor vehicie theft risk 79

"People get angry and say I am a "race baiter", but honestly since the crime stats don't back up the claim that this particular area is "scary", it has no basis in fact."

Read my response above.

Crime is not the only element that makes a neighborhood "scary".

NYCMatt, where are you from originally?

alanhart, why do you ask?

You seem to be spooked easily by what you perceive as dangers, when in fact they're not. Then you refuse to accept crime statistics from the FBI (cognitive dissonance).

I'm guessing you're either from a place that's totally homogenous, and don't have the street-smarts to know urban danger when you see it; or you're from a total crimepit like Miami, Chitroit, LA or Philly. But I needn't guess if you'd just answer the simple, straightforward question.

Where?

Alan,
hope you come on 5-21

Well, alanhart, since you seem to have already made up your mind about me, why should I even bother answering the question? I'll just leave you with your prejudice.

dwell, thanks. I have a prior commitment (with open bar!) but if it works out I might stumble in slurrily.

yes, slurrily tumble in. I'll save you a nappy to wipe drool/spitle.

You're bringing an infant to a wine bar?

you got a prob wit dat? The kid whines at the bar.

"The kid whines at the bar."
!!!!!
That reminds me of Fran Lebowitz's "Notes on Trick", which included something like:
"Tricks like to lie in bed.
And on the beach, and in parks, and restaurants and discos and..."

NYCMatt, its funny how no one on these boards who LIVES in Harlem thinks its dangerous, and how the actual crime stats show that it is fact (in the case of 10035 & 10027) in fact safer than Meatpacking, Lincoln Square, Tribecca, the West Village, or Soho. I have posted SEVEN years worth of stats above. What evidence do you present that its dangerous and one needs pepper spray to walk one block to third and three blocks to 119th?

And its telling that you won't answer Alanhart's question -

"I'm guessing you're either from a place that's totally homogenous, and don't have the street-smarts to know urban danger when you see it; or you're from a total crimepit like Miami, Chitroit, LA or Philly. But I needn't guess if you'd just answer the simple, straightforward question.

Where?"

The actual FACTS tell us 10035 is a safe neighborhood by Manhattan standards. How often do you walk around 119th and 3rd and witness drug deals in the open and hear gun shots?

I live up there, as does my (very) white roommate, and we have never seen either. nor do i know anyone personally, of any race, who has been mugged or raped or killed in the two years I have been up there.

And I can read crime stat reports.

What, exactly, do you base your opinion on?

Wow, these are waaaay overpriced. The 2-bedrooms shouldn't be more than $3K a month...and that's for 1,000 sf plus.

Agreed bronxboy.

" live up there, as does my (very) white roommate, and we have never seen either. nor do i know anyone personally, of any race, who has been mugged or raped or killed in the two years I have been up there.

And I can read crime stat reports.

What, exactly, do you base your opinion on?"

Based on the drug deals I have seen with my own eyes, and based on the violent muggings of FOUR friends up there on three separate occasions.

"Based on the drug deals I have seen with my own eyes, and based on the violent muggings of FOUR friends up there on three separate occasions. "

So your personal annecdotes outweigh the culmulative data? Do you base your views on global climate change on the weather on your block? Do you decide the nations's unemployment rate on whether or not you and your friends have jobs? Do you determine the Yankee's win-loss ratio based only on the games you have seen?

Most rational people use statistics covering the entire data set from a reliable source. Hence, 10035 as a point of fact has lower crime rate than 10007 and 10011.

No. when it comes to personal safety, most rational people go with their own personal experiences over statistics. Statistically, it's also safer to fly in an airplane than it is to drive in a car. But that statistic doesn't mean squat to the passengers on the Colgan Air jet that crashed February in Buffalo, now does it?

Sorry Matt, but you are spinning. To extrapolate the Colgan accident is plain silly. Statistics should mean something to people. I feel in some cases, like in Harlem's dangerousness, there is more prejudice than personal experience at work.

Using your logic, matt, since my landlord won't lower my rent, rents in Manhattan are not falling. All the reports about real estate are wrong! No, you let emotions cloud your reason. Several posts above some said it correctly - cognitive biases. Airplane travel IS safer than car travel, period. I don't care that people may have died in a tragic crash.

I have had traumatic and emotional events in my life, but they do not obscure logic. Or facts.

Sorry cognitive dissonance. But yes that is what you have on this topic. You really do remind me of my mom's old boyfriend who said all gay men should be killed or exiled because he was molested by one as a child. No amount of reason on the topic, including from my mom's gay brother could convince him that all gay men were NOT pedophiles. Of course his being raised in a homophobic environment had NOTHING to do with his cognitive dissonance, he insisted.

Jason, thanks for your fact-based comments. I'm a white resident in 10035, and while some blocks may be on the scrappy side, my wife and I don't feel like we're taking our lives into our hands every time we take a stroll around the neighborhood with our kids. BTW, I've yet to see a drug deal, mugging or rape in the almost two years that we've been living here. Now Tribeca & Soho, well, that's another story. LOL.

I've also seen no crime in the eight years I've lived in Harlem (two different parts). Moreover, I've never heard of anyone having crime problems ... not second-hand stories, not third-hand stories, not even tall tales (from anyone who lives in Harlem, at least.

"and based on the violent muggings of FOUR friends up there on three separate occasions" <--- are you friends with Tony Target?

lol Alan

i think that we've established that matt makes it up as he goes. time to ignore him.

I have actually never known anyone who experienced ANY crime ANYWHERE in Manhattan in my 9 years hear...except me when my gustbuster was stolen from right in front of me in Chelsea. However, I don't think of Chelsea as dangerous, nor do I assume that there is no crime in manhattan just because no one I know has ever told me about a crime.

Now, if Matt wanted to dig around the NYT.com site, he WOULD find very high crime zip codes in upper manhattan or inthe Bronx or BK. Just not mine or 10035.

matt is on a hot date---no doubt we'll hear from him later when things don't work out.

" A man was viciously stabbed in Greenwich Village yesterday -- the second violent incident in the area in several days, sparking anxious calls for an increased police presence.

Derek Brown, 41, who has a record of 23 arrests, was stabbed in the back and arm after he got into a heated argument with another man at West Fourth and Grove streets about 5:45 a.m., police sources said. ...."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05182009/news/regionalnews/attack_alarms_village_169873.htm

Jason: This from today. And as I posted above, some zip codes in the West Village and Chelsea have noticeably higher crime rates than some zip codes north of 96th Street. Indeed, this attack happened in 10014 and the NYT real estate website shows the trailing 7 years average crime rate for this part of the village is as follows:

Crime
Total crime risk 213
Personal crime risk 316
Murder risk 190
Rape risk 88
Assault risk 343
Property crime risk 187
Burglary risk 167
Larceny risk 119
Motor vehicie theft risk 186

Jason: As you can see, a MUCH higher crime rate than 10035 or 10027 in East Harlem and Central Harlem, as I posted several posts above. Like a 50% higher crime rate. Especially for violent crime.

"Derek Brown, 41, who has a record of 23 arrests, was stabbed in the back and arm after he got into a heated argument with another man at West Fourth and Grove streets about 5:45 a.m., police sources said. ....""

Maybe it's time we started implementing a three-strikes law in New York ...

PS - read the comments section on the post site. Makes this hip neighborhood's sky-high crime stats seem very realistic.

I mean seriously. Really?

http://www.halstead.com/detail.aspx?id=1721214