211 E. 51st

Yes. After my posting a week before yours regarding this new development, I was looking at the Alexander and 211. Both are nice but with 211 I can move in this August. Further, the room proportions are real nice at 211. Hope this helps.

Judah

2 very importand things you need to know about this building

if you are in a unit that faces the back:
- i believe they are building a hotel on 52nd, construction noise and living opposite hotel room is not going to be fun
- if your unit faces 52nd street from the back, it is VERY noisey on fri/sat night due to the 3 bars in that area.

Bugelrex is right about the hotel on 52nd street. However, what he lacks is the understanding that in Manhattan to have a view of a distant hotel room that is set back at least 50 ft from the back of the building is better than a view of a commercial building or housing authority project. Further, the $ PSF in this project sure beats the other new developments in the area and lastly the windows that I saw when I was there are the casement type which act like vaults and do an amazing job of keeping any sound out. Not sure about the bars but the way he presents this it would seem like he has lived in the place????

Judah

I have lived on that block (52) for three years
The bar noise is pretty bad particulary the honking cars as traffic is heavy on that block

I should also mention that the building next to the new hotel is a possible japanese brothel . You can see this from the japanese guys pulling in business guys on the corner at night

I live on 51st right near the new development, and even tough it is just a block away 52st and third its a much more quite, calm and residential block (with a serene park)despite the few bars in the area. I hope this can help!

Just walked by the block - seems pretty busy (both 51st and 52nd streets) - I like the small park though - pretty cool. Anyone knows what is the new building going up just north of Greeacre Park? Is that the hotel referenced above (sales person tells me the hotel has yet to be built on lot north of 211 East). Thanks

$1400 psf when you can rent a 1 bedroom for $2700 sounds quite steep to me...

First, bugelrex, there is no "Japanese" brothel there. I live in the area, and I frankly don't know what you are talking about. Are you referring to the Russian spa that used to be there in the basement of this bldg? Yes, if you proceed toward 2nd ave, there are bars and restaurants, and it is loud at night. But the area is NOT bad at all.

With this said, this conversion isn't all that impressive to me. I have seen the renovation process AND I've toured inside. The exterior renovation is really "half ass," because they only changed the ground-level facade. From the 2nd floor on, it looks like any NYC gray bldg circa 1960s--very "middle class."

It is considerably nicer inside, but the finish does not warrant the price tag. The apts are cookie-cutter, and there is nothing interesting. As nyc10022 says, I think you can rent a comparable unit at a much, much lower cost. 1BR (850sf) goes for about 1 mil, and you can rent that for $3,500/mo in this area.

When is this place going to dip below $1,000 psf? 2009? 2010? Any guesses out there?

nyc212:

The Japanese brother is in the building next to the restaurant Fukumatsu, just ask the Japanese guys that stand on the corner pulling in japanese buisnessmen at night.

Those guys work for Japanese piano bars and karaoke places--certainly not for brothels. Again, I live in the area, working closely with "salary-men" from Japanese firms, and have not noticed or heard of anything. So, the alleged presence of a "Japanese" brothel should definitely not deter anyone from purchasing there (by the way, would things be better for you if it were, say, a Swedish brothel or a Dutch brothel???).

Sure, I won't buy a unit there--not because of what bugelrex says but because of more substantive reasons, such as half-ass renovation, cookie-cutter apts, and unattractive pricing for what you get.

I did it guys and bought a Unit at 211. With my office being a few blocks away, this condo presented me with the best opportunity. I have toured all the local condo buildings and either it is a new development asking over 1300psf and may or might get lender approval to continue with construction or the common charges and real estate taxes were too high. It is also great to take my friends and guests to greenacre park right next door. As the comments regarding the finishes, this condo was designed by Shamir Shah Design- who designs for many of extell and related condominiums. Dont know about the $1,400 psf price as maybe those are for the units on the upper floors with better views. Building is already fully staffed, managed and occupied. The lobby has recently been completed and look forward to the time when the Sponsor finishes the Penthouse Units. We like it and dont hear the noise that all of you are talking about (maybe I need a hearing aide). I do know the construction behind has started up again so the sooner that Hyatt Place gets built the better we will all be.

judah, congrats. It's a nice area, and I am sure you will enjoy your apt.

Anyhow, pricewise, did you pay less than what is indicated here? If so, maybe they are slashing prices? I am wondering because the listing here seem to be in the $1350-$1400/sf range.

is the noise from the construction (if you face the hyatt going up) loud from inside the apt?

Thank you nyc212. I paid in the 1250psf range for a large one bedroom. Understand that due to the economy of scale when dealing with the smaller units in the building i.e. 505sf @ 600k is $1,188psf. If this same unit on a higher floor is $50k more than the psf jumps significantly to $1,287. This is what is causing many to beleive that the units in the condo are bet 1350-1400psf which is understandably shocking and more like the veneto around the corner. I called the sales office and confirmed that there are available units for sale in the $1,100-1,275 range. The more expensive units with the large terraces are of course going to be more. As most, I too am sensitive to noise and all I can do is to give you a sample of my experience. The last condo I lived in had double hung windows which are the ones that go up and down and are more conventinal and cheaper for the developer to install. The windows in this condo are double insualted casement windows. Casements are pulled in and out and dont have many moving parts like a vault. This feature keeps the sound out of the home. Sutton123- I would advise that you go to the building during construction of the Hyatt in the back and hear for yourself.

Thanks Judah for the info.

Judah, since there is no board as of yet in this building- how long did it take to close on your apt.?

Sutton- Technically there is a board as the Sponsor holds that position until a certain point in time when the building residents take over. Closing was very quick as the building already has its Certificate of Occupancy so there is no waiting around for that. It took me a few weeks to lock down my financing with Wells Fargo and I closed 4 weeks from the time I put my depoit down.

thanks for the info judah. I hope you are enjoying your new home :)

Judah, thanks for the info and congratulations. I popped in to look at your lobby yesterday (Sunday) and everything looks great. I checked out the neighborhood, you have plenty of restaurants to choose from over on 3rd. Doorman is EXTREMELY polite. Good luck with it, I think it's a great spot.

I have had this Condo on my favorites for quite some time as my rental expires shortly and with the current state of the market feel uneasy about making any purchase. I have toured this Condo a few times and feel very comfortable in the homes. The block seems quite nice and the price per foot much lower than the neighboring new development. I have been to 212 East 47th Street and prefer the finishes in 211 and also prefer to living amongst 73 homes than the 261 in 212. Any and all critical input is helpful. As Judah lives in the condo, I need unbiast info (no offense Judah).

One of my friends actually rents an apartment here and I was round there recently. The construction seems reasonably solid and well done. The kitchen was nice, it had all the standard finishes you might expect (all Bosch) but there is no washer/dryer in the unit and instead they opted for a shared laundry in the basement. The dark wood flooring is nice and helps add some warmth to the apartment. He has a balcony which overlooks the garden next door and noise of the waterfall in the garden actually drowns out the noise of the city. This probably enhances the value of the balconies on the east side of the building. In fact, because there is such a large corporate building on the south side of the building there is a good chance that if they are pricing the south west elevations at a premium you wouldn't realise that premium and would be better off buying south east.

I had a look their website as I was curious to see how many apartments had sold. To be honest I was shocked to see so many apartments still available and this is probably due to the pricing. I know there has been some debate about the pricing here but I still think these are too high. The cheapest listing is at $1100/ft and because I have been looking in this area and Murray Hill I can’t help think of all the units in Murray Hill priced at $1000/ft with better amenities and views, yet they aren’t shifting. If I was buying here I would be looking to pay no more than $1000/ft as they have a lot of inventory here clearly and with every month that goes by they will be forced to reduce prices to get rid of units.

There was some mention of the Alexander too in this thread. I hadn’t actually ever looked at 211 East 51st, but I did look at the Alexander. Pricing there is even higher and that building is only worth it if you’re going to buy the line with the feature glass window. The other lines are very plain units with absolutely no features and don’t trade at enough of a discount to the glass featured apartments.

I heard of this building through a broker friend of mine but have not seen it first hand. Nice building, Nice finishes. Believe my friend told me that they have washer dryers in the 2 bedrooom units? Murray Hill has always been less expensive than Midtown East/Sutton Place as they have a surplus of high rise buildings and area had a poor reputation albeit its getting better. 51st happens to be a nice block and having the park next door should add some value to the place. Know that the block is full of nice cafes and bistos and is a quick walk to shopping and grand central. As to the price, $1000 a ft seems like a great deal if you can get it but I dont foresee the developer lowering the price to that point as the nearby buildings are asking in the 1500pft range for ground up and 1200 range for conversions. What I dont see being mentioned is that developers are most likely in these condo projects for more than 1000pft so if they lowered prices to 1000ft they will be taking a hard hit. Hope this helps.

Interesting, thanks. My friend has a one bedroom so I don't know about the two beds. Looking at the floor plans doesn't really clarify it either as the 2 beds don't mention it. I was wondering what the cost base was for the developer so it is interesting to hear your estimate. If they paid $1000/ft thats not a bad return on investment (circa 25%) and no doubt they have leveraged this too so the ROI will be higher. How do you think they are financing this development? I assume there is some sort of payoff between holding on just now to sell at existing prices while having to pay interest on borrowings vs reducing now to offload some inventory. Also if your cost base is correct then they clearly have some money in this so can afford to hold on for quite some time before being forced to sell.

Have you looked at the Alexander? What do you think their cost base is for that building? I assume higher since they're building from scratch.

I noticed here (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12102) that the building was being sold in 2006 for $42.5m. It seems they were originally going to add 8 floors and have 75 condos and instead have just converted the existing building and are selling 73 condos.

My comments were general to the market not to this specific Condominium. At 42.5m for the building and with the building being approx. 73,000sf according to propertyshark than would be around $582psf on the gross (not inc. closing costs) and approx. $650-$700 net sellable if you take away the commercial sq ft. Lets say the developer put 300-400 into the project you are already at 1000-1100 per ft. Lets us now say that if one takes into consideration misc. costs he is up to 1150. I did read an article in the real deal where the developer at 211 goes into all of his hard and soft costs (quite interesting). May be the developer is correct when he says he is only making 10% on each deal especially if a majority of the units are going in the $1,200 per ft range?????

If you dig deeper into internet, you will see the proposed purchaser who couldnt close was going to add 8 floors. The new developer who closed in May 2007 decided to convert the existing building.

How are buyers that are closing able to get financing? This article claims only 35% sold.

Also, who cares if the developer cannot reduce pricing because of their own costs. If the current market is way below their cost, they'll just have to file BK unless the government is going to give them a bailout.

"The project is 35 percent sold after going on sale in May, said Kimberly Mancini, director of sales at the building. "

http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/developer-hopes-food-is-the-way-to-a-broker-s-heart

When I was looking for financing, the sales office put me in touch with their in house morgage banker from Wells Fargo. Supposedly, the project had been pre approved by a few of the bigger banks aka bny, boa, chase. Perhaps since it already has its Certificate of Occupancy and the construction has been completed it has been granted preapproval??

Called the sales office and confirmed many of the purchasers have financed and had not issues... hoe this helps.

A whole bunch of units just got listed with Century 21 NY Metro. They're now offering a furniture package, but still no price movement.

I saw the apartments and didn't like them. Nothing particularly special at all. Very basic finishings and nothing interesting or unique about the layouts. We saw several units including one with outdoor space facing North that will be blocked by some new construction going up on 52nd Street.

OH NO! the current owners are about to get screwed.. Curbed claims this building is going to take part in the upcoming Auction!

Potential 50% haircuts?

http://curbed.com/archives/2009/02/26/coming_soon_new_york_city_condo_auctions.php

Interesting update on Curbed. Developer denies the auction is planned.

As one who purchased a home @ 211, I was concerned and suprised when I read the curbed post regarding the developers plan to take the unsold units to auction. Immediately, I reached out to the developer, HJ Development to inquire and was assured that Henry Justin has no intention on selling the unsold unit via auction. Prior to buying, I looked at Henry Justin's prior projects and spoke to many of the owners who assured me that he builds quality homes. What comforted me further was when going to the open houses, Henry Justin was present talking to prospective purchasers and answering any of their questions. Not only is he the owner, he has been the general contractor of his projects and from our conversations it appeared that he knew what he was talking about. 211 offered many layouts which afforded us a nice variety. We purchased a one bedroom and there are 6 variable sized one bedrooms to choose from. What we hear is that HJ Development is financially sound, doesnt have partners, not leveraged and has completed construction at 211 which I can attest to. The services are in place and its a pleasure to live there. Really looking forward to the Spring when Greenacre Park which is located next door will open. Hope this helps.

Lots' of nice finishes, but over $1000 sqft for a 500sq ft apartment that only has a 8X12 bedroom? Way too high -- Interesting that the previous sales closed at a lower average per sq ft than the units currently on the market. Not sure about the auction probability, but I do forsee much lower pricing if they want to sell out the building. If were to spend $600K on a 1 bedroom I could find an equally well located, larger, doorman apartment easily. Quick search on SE shows 52 1 beds under $600K and over 750sq ft in Midtown East. Just saying.

judah,

It doesnt matter if they do not intend to run an auction or lower prices. What matters is the 'market' prices for condos in the area is/heading.

The market will determine the price when owners/developer HAS to sell.

woah, I just read this and the post on Curbed about 211 and the auctions.

at the end of the day, bugelrex is correct. doesn't really matter what Henry Justin does. it's what all the other developers will do at the auction. they will set the market value.

Judah, I am sure the captain of The Titanic "knew what he was talking about". And I'm sure the state rooms on The Titanic were of "nice variety". The owners of The Titanic were "financially sound, doesn't have partners, not leveragd" and the ship was well built.
Get the DRIFT...

The only way a building can avoid market forces would be to fill the place with models who are contractually obligated to gives sexual favors to unit owners for free.

ncy10025 I agree with you that there may be many resale 1 bedrooms on the market selling for less than the one bedroom units @ 211. If the investor/purchaser wants a new home than there is not much out there in the area that can compete.Bugelrex is right that the market will ultimately dictate the price for the home.

Looks like 9D just got a price cut from 695K to 681K. Still too high at $1,348 psf. Other units holding firm.

I have saved this Condo as one of my Streeteasy favorites and noticed that they now have a significant number of signed contracts out. Any way to prove that this is true? My husband and I have been looking in this area and our broker called me yesterday and said that the developer is definately negotiating from his ask but not going to give away the homes. I asked what this translates to and he said instead of 1250-1275 per square foot deals are being made at 1150-1175. We have a few concerns, one being that the developer would rent out the unsold homes. Our broker reached out to the developer who was adamant that he has no intention on renting out the remaining homes. Not sure if I can rely on this. The other concern is the hotel being built in the back which I just heard will be a Hyatt Place. I dont mind it being there once complete but the time it will take to build would be annoying. Supposetly, the developer is willing to make the biggest concessions in the A line which is direclty facing the proposed Hotel. I look to your advise.

PH--this building is not worth what the sponsor is asking for. Look up this condo at SE and you will see there are a lot of units still available. If you like Midtown East, you should go further east and you will find better ones.

Locationwise, they could have probably pulled that price range--had the conversion been done more tastefully.

It's a generic-looking gray bldg., which looks strictly lower-middle class (sorry--I know I am being harshly classist, but have you seen the bldg.?). Sure, the finishes are better than average once you are inside, but who's going to pay $1,300 pf for a small cookie-cutter unit in such a generic-looking bldg.? The same can be said about 212 E 47th...

This is strange. The apartments listed as in contract actually appear in closed sales, so they're in essence being counted twice.

ue10021- I do like Midtown East and have been looking for new development in the 1150-1250psf range. Our broker took us to 212 and its nice but with over 300units and thirty something floors not our cup of tea as we prefer the more intimate feel of a smaller building and 51st is much nicer than 47th. Can you recomend new development in midtown east in the same price range?

Propertyhunter, why "new developments?" This bldg. is a conversion, so it's not really new, and you can see that once you go down to the basement, etc. I know of 3 conversions in that area: this one, 212 47th (which, in my opinion, is much nicer than this one--much less cookie-cutter, has a HUGE lobby and has terraces!), and 865 (?) UN Plaza--which is a small condo conversion...very different from most NYC apts. Have you seen that?

Brand-new constructions will cost you a lot more than the price range you cite--closer to $2k pf in that area, from what I have seen of late.

I agree with nyc 212 about this one being a conversion, rather than a new development. I think you would be better off by buying one in Sutton or Beekman and fixing it up on your own. (My wife and I work in this area, and we seriously considered moving to this area some time ago. We saw many charming apartments in the area, which require some work.) As to a new development in the area, did you see one at 49th and Second? It will ask for more as it is truly a new construction, but the price must have come down or will come down soon. Or look at the one on 53rd and Second--I think there are a lot of resales by investors, and you can negotiate the price down to a reasonable level.

Thanks guys. Definately not looking to spend $2k psf. I dont want to deal with coops which is limiting me to the condos in the area. As for resales, I have looked at many and the ones that we liked will need a full gut renovation which I dont have the patience for so why not go for a home that is already new. We are being screwed now with maintenance assesments for old equipment and building wide issues so 211 or similir offers us obviously with no gurantee low maintenance and with a full renovation of the mechanicals and building interior less assesments down the road. We heard that 212 is not a full gut renovation in that they left the heating system in place and other exisitng equipment and a huge lobby is not a plus in my eyes???? We would really love to buy a home at Related's project The Venento but too expensive. Thanks for your help.

propertyhunter, u mentioned u lie 51st better than 47st. how come?

Dont get me wrong, I think 212 is quite nice but I never liked large buildings that feel too hotel like. Some like the large lobby but personally the more intimate lobby with less fuss is more to my liking. Again, since you are asking for my personal taste, I feel 211 has nicer all around finishes. Yes, the kitchens and bathrooms are nice in both places but I look at the flooring, mouldings, closets and windows to guage the quality and again just feel 211 is better suited when it comes to the above. Location on 51st is far superior to 47th Street and having Greenacre park next door helps make the building more attractive.

Can anyone advise on mortgage brokers/lenders who have provided financing in the bldg at competitive rates. Given that the building is only about 1/3 sold (slightly higher if you include "in contract" units)? Also, what is the status of the Hyatt building?

Just viewed the floor plans for the first time...stop me if I'm wrong but, how do you justify the pricing given the sparse amount of space, views, #of windows and current calender date? I have never seen these properties in person and as we all know that makes all the difference but, given the floor plans and sq/ft price structure I suprised any could sell. To be fair prehaps I have over looked some special feature or magic this building has to offer. Maybe West Garden is opening a branch in the building and you get unlimited free service for 5 years? No that can't be...they would be sold out.

>how do you justify the pricing given the sparse amount of space, views, #of windows and current calender date?

falcogold1:

Location, location, location! It's located right off the E/V/6 train station, in the center of the Midtown business district, and I can't think of many areas that are more convenient. Yet you get to escape the craziness because it is not a heavily traveled street and is located right next to a small park.

There are some super-steeply priced condos (sold b/4 the crisis) in the area along 2nd Ave., while most of the bldgs. in the neighborhood are coops--some really badly run w/ geriatric board members and really high maintenance fees. In that sense, this bldg. may be considered quite unique and desirable in certain market segments. The finishes are great, so don't let the ugly exterior of the bldg. fool you... Once inside, it is quite nice.

With this said, the listings are mostly in the $1,100-$1,200 pf range. I don't think that's all that expensive considering all the positives, especially considering the possibility of hefty discounts one might get...

Eastrabbit- When I went to the building last week, the director of sales put me in touch with a mortgage banker Richard Alashian (973) 200-3240 who has provided financing on a few recent deals at the building. He will most probably require 25% down and can provide 30 yr fixed rates in the 5's. Hope this helps.

Hello. I have been looking at a variety of condos (as I wont get approved for a coop as I am a foreigner) in the 50's as I work at the UN. My broker told me that 211 has recently been approved by Fannie Mae however I dont know what this does for me compared to some other condos in the area. Any help would be appreciated.He did tell me that I can now get better interest rate financing a home?

thank you

Karla

Karla, if you are a diplomat there are probably 2/3 banks that will give you a mortgage but I think that you could buy in several coops.

karla, indeed 211 East 51 is now Fannie Mae approved. The developer did a very wise thing by getting the "golden seal" of approvals. You may find other condos you like that doesnt have fannie mae approval and you may not be able to get financing there. It doesnt necessarily help with rates but you can be rest assured that if you are qualified, you dont have to worry about condo approval at 211 East 51. Also, you mentioned you work for the UN. Im assuming you have a G4 visa. I specialize in financing for UN employees who are non-permanent residents. sunny.hong@bankofamerica.com

Thank you for your quick response. I attended the open house yesterday that was surprisingly busy. The model homes are all nicely furnished and the quality looks good. My broker mentioned that the developer is holding still on his pricing as he wants to keep the value of the buildings units. I plan on making a decision over the next few weeks and will visit some other condos in the area. thanks again.

Need someones help. Have been looking for 1-3 months and trying to find a 2nd home for myself that my daughter can use in the meantime while she is in University. Just read in NY Mag about the 51st Street block that 211 East 51st Street is located on. Anyone know more about this Condominium in terms of quality of construction, Developer, area and transportation that can be beneficial for someone now in the know like myself.

Thank you fro the help.

A lost soul.

Hi Folks - I am thinking about purchasing a condo in this building. What are your thoughts? Anyone live here?

PowerPropNYC- I have been circling the wagon for quite some time to purchase in this Sutton Place/Midtown East Area and have toured all New Developments. 211 is nice. Different than the ground up buildings it feels more intimate than most but looks many of the "amenities" of the other ground up ones. Looking at the recent sales, it appears they have been busy and there was a nice article this past weekend in the NYTimes real estate section about 211 and the park next door.Nice Block and nice location. I work in midtown and its convenient. Dont know if you are buying for occupancy or rental but make sure to look at their rental comps if you are looking for the investment.

Why is this place worth 1,500 a sq foot? To pay almost 1 million for a 600 sq ft apt is crazy in this market, IMO.

Hi Folks

I just purchased a one bedroom unit. I'm excited. This neighborhood cannot be beat. No baby-stroller gridlock but plenty to do!