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Tenant failed to get insurance - now needed!

Started by sohoman
over 10 years ago
Posts: 76
Member since: Mar 2013
Discussion about
Two winters ago my tenant went on vacation in December and turned the heating off! Pipes froze, burst and flooded the condo below. The owner of the condo below claimed on his insurance. The cost I believe to be substantial as the owner was moved into a hotel for 3 months. My tenant had undertaken in the lease to take out renters insurance. I had never asked to see the tenants insurance. The... [more]
Response by snezanc
over 10 years ago
Posts: 121
Member since: Oct 2007

My understanding is that your insurance company will pay the claim and then go after your tenant for violating the terms of his lease. Even if you had checked the tenant's renter's insurance, he/she could have cancelled the next day. If it's on the lease, he violated the lease. Leave it to the lawyers.

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Response by Aaron2
over 10 years ago
Posts: 1693
Member since: Mar 2012

In the future, you should 1) have a clause in the lease that says something to the effect that the tenant will take out, and maintain insurance coverage for the period of the lease. 2) require that the insurance cover damages to others caused by their error or negligence. Most renters insurance policies cover their own possessions, with limited coverage for others), 3) requie that they provide a certificate of insurance to you at lease signing (or within a few days thereafter), 3) you should be named as an interested party on the policy, so you are notified if it is cancelled.

This gives your insurance company a better way to follow through with the tenant's insurance company.

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Response by gothamsboro
over 10 years ago
Posts: 536
Member since: Sep 2013

I think there is a strong argument that this is your liability entirely, irrespective of the tenant.

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Response by Bburg
over 10 years ago
Posts: 125
Member since: Mar 2015

Strong argument? As in you think it should be so? Or the realities of insurance coverage practices? Don't opine about something about which you have zero knowledge.

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Response by Bburg
over 10 years ago
Posts: 125
Member since: Mar 2015

Or do you mean his insurance should cover? If so, my apologies, because you'd be correct absent any specific, and unusual, language carving out an exception.

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Response by gothamsboro
over 10 years ago
Posts: 536
Member since: Sep 2013

I'm sorry Bhurg, did I confuse you by using the word irrespective instead of the "word" irregardless?

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Response by modern
over 10 years ago
Posts: 887
Member since: Sep 2007

@gothamsboro is correct. Rental insurance usually covers just personal possessions and visitor injuries, don't think it will cover structural/in wall issues. Owner is liable not the tenant. Your insurance company can then sue tenant if they want, good luck proving it was their fault. They can just blame a faulty heating system.

Good news is I don't think condo insurance is like auto insurance, accidents don't drive up your rates. Have your insurance handle it.

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Response by Aaron2
over 10 years ago
Posts: 1693
Member since: Mar 2012

Of course, your specific condo insurance policy may only cover you as insured owner and as tenant. If you're using the property as an investment, and not as your primary residence, your insurance may not cover your tenant's damages, since they thought they were underwriting only you as an individual and resident, not your business interests. Better read your policy carefully.

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Response by gothamsboro
over 10 years ago
Posts: 536
Member since: Sep 2013

and if you have any assets, an umbrella policy is worth looking into. However if your asset is your spouse (eg because only your spouse gets up in the morning to go to work and you just remain supposedly about ready to go to work) just get term life.

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Response by alanhart
over 10 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007

And you, troll: you just get a life term.

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Response by Bburg
about 10 years ago
Posts: 125
Member since: Mar 2015

I'd suggest about $5 million, put into trust to shield assets from estate taxes. Totally unfair to the masses, but the difference in your estate taxes wouldn't be going to the masses anyway. It's a shitty system, use it to your advantage. If you live in a basement at the whim of a parent, term vs. cgl probably won't matter.
What I don't get is why the op's carrier wasn't put on notice immediately. All insurance companies who have anything to do with a unit/building should be notified. That's the lovely thing about p&l insurance, it's one of the few areas that's relatively well regulated (although it should be done so nationally, not on a state level, even the insurance companies agree(. You put everyone on notice, submit your claims, and they do the work.
Two years is a hell of a long time for an open claim to go unresolved when the tenant didn't have insurance, and had he had it that insurance wouldn't have provided coverage.

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Response by multicityresident
about 10 years ago
Posts: 2422
Member since: Jan 2009

@gb - you should speak directly to your wife about your resenting her for not working and stop taking it out on bburg.

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Response by sohoman
about 10 years ago
Posts: 76
Member since: Mar 2013

That is really helpful. Thank you. Here is the language from the lease with regards to the tenant taking insurance. Maybe I have asked them only to get insurance to cover contents and not liability for damage to another apartment?

9. Tenant shall obtain and keep in full force and effect throughout the Term of this Lease at its own cost and expense for the benefit of Landlord and Tenant a policy of renter’s liability and property damage insurance in an amount not less than the value of the contents of the Unit. Tenant represents that the value of the contents of the Unit does not exceed the amount of insurance provided for herein. On or before the beginning of the Term of this Lease, Tenant shall deliver to Landlord either a duplicate original of the aforesaid policy or a certificate evidencing such insurance, naming Landlord as an additional insured, and, at least thirty (30) days prior to the expiration of said policies, Tenant shall deliver renewals thereof to Landlord. Such policies shall contain a provision that no act, omission or negligence of Tenant, its contractors, licensees, agents, servants, employees, invitees or visitors will affect or limit the obligation of the insurance company to pay the amount of any loss sustained and such policies shall be non-cancelable except upon thirty (30) days’ written notice to Landlord.

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Response by truthskr10
about 10 years ago
Posts: 4088
Member since: Jul 2009

lease
9."Tenant shall deliver to Landlord either a duplicate original of the aforesaid policy or a certificate evidencing such insurance, naming Landlord as an additional insured, and, at least thirty (30) days prior to the expiration of said policies, Tenant shall deliver renewals thereof to Landlord. Such policies shall contain a provision that no act, omission or negligence of Tenant, its contractors, licensees, agents, servants, employees, invitees or visitors will affect or limit the obligation of the insurance company to pay the amount of any loss sustained and such policies shall be non-cancelable except upon thirty (30) days’ written notice to Landlord."

first paragraph in initial post
"I had never asked to see the tenants insurance."

You could ask for anything but useless if you don't follow up.

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Response by front_porch
about 10 years ago
Posts: 5312
Member since: Mar 2008

this is a bit of a tangent, but I've been a landlady for ten years now, and I don't think I've ever asked a tenant to purchase liability insurance... I just assumed that if anything the magnitude of what you're talking about happened, it would kick back to my liability carrier.

Your clause -- disclaimer that I'm not an attorney, so I'm just reading this as plain English -- requires tenant to carry insurance for the value of the contents of the unit, which arguably could be a mere $10,000. (some clothes + some furniture from IKEA). My impression from your other posts is that that's about a month's rent on this place, so if it makes you feel better, even if your tenant had had the required insurance in place per the lease, the coverage might well have fallen short.

Whereas your landlord liability/umbrella policy is probably somewhere in the $1mm - $2mm range.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

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Response by Bburg
about 10 years ago
Posts: 125
Member since: Mar 2015

Ok, here's an example. About a month ago our upstairs neighbor's renters (in a condo) left on vacation and something shorted in their ice maker hose and they flooded our apartment. We were out of town but luckily our daughter was here. The fire department declared it a non-emergency, but with some rather harsh words from our daughter was compelled to break open a door upstairs (actually two, the first one was the wrong apartment) and disconnect the water source. All carriers were put on notice, the condo insurance covered fully. Including $3000 for the two doors NYCs finest took out.

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Response by Bburg
about 10 years ago
Posts: 125
Member since: Mar 2015

I also don't get the relocation issue. That would only be covered, I believe, by a personal policy. If they didn't have it so sorry for them, your insurance carrier should not be liable.

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