What area of NYC (include "it" areas) will see the biggest declines in the next year?

EW is correct, Astoria - when I was born there - was still part of NYC.

LICC may disagree, but the dividing line b/t us is the GCP. :0

And so petrfitz and evillager know, I had dinner & drinks there tonight. I go there lots. It's downscale white, but that's fine by me.

LMAO.

Actually, I do like the E. Village & can tolerate some parts of LES. But I stand by the "anchor tenant" theory, which EWilson just confirmed: there gotta b a reason for peeps to go there.

> I know many educated children of immigrants or of poor upbringings who stayed in the LES. They're
> reaping the benefits of cheap rent or parents who purchased property really cheap. It's not all
> transplants. The transplants are the ones paying market rates, like at Blue or the Ludlow.

My family lived on the LES since before 1900. The only folks I know that you speak of "bought" co-ops which were really glorified rentals (you paid $2k to buy, and your maintenance was really rent). They lucked out when the buildings privatized and they could sell at market rates.

The huge majority rented. Some have stabilized places, but most are gone. Almost all moved out, there aren't many folks from the 1900s. Everybody else is a transplant in my book. Hell, any non-Indians are transplants.

The game of "I got there first" is pretty stupid.

1900? That's even before the coops were built!

My point is that the folks who stuck it out through the shitty times at LES are sitting on some market rate gold. Many are older people who will eventually die and turn the place over to singles or young families at the lowest rates in Manhattan. I've seen estates sold recently at below $600 psf. You're essentially owning at the cost of rent.

For those renting, $160 for a 2 br is not bad, right? Another person I know is paying about $500. They could rent the second room out for $1000 and be cash positive. That's even better than owning!

"They could rent the second room out for $1000 and be cash positive."

If it's rent-regulated (controlled or stabilized) and they do that and get caught (or reported), they will have to return the money, pay triple damages, and they will lose their lease.

"Actually, I do like the E. Village & can tolerate some parts of LES."

Who cares what you like. There's simply no inventory in EV and LES, particularly on the high end. Europeans love it there and thus will continue to pay to live there as will others. I remind that much of the stock there is toward the low end of the PPSF spectrum anyway and I'd venture to guess that many to most of those who bought apts there bought cheap and can handle the downturn. Thus, prices will not plummet significantly as opposed to, say, the west village.

"Europeans love it there and thus will continue to pay to live there"

Yup. I've heard this song before.

Which Europeans? The English, where property prices are plummeting? The Spanish, where property prices are plummeting? The Irish, where property prices are plummeting? The Germans, who mostly rent? The Swiss, ditto? The French?

Yeah, the French, those Freedom Fry people.

Get real.

Guy, you obviously have no idea about the East Village and/or LES. Its crawling with Europeans. Rich ones. Rich kids, rich people, its a scene, one of the few remaining on the island. it will be for the foreseeable future. It has something other neighborhoods do not. character. and its still relatively cheap. when the europeans visit ny they go to the east village and LES. They don't go to Magnolia bakery. Thats where people from indiana go.

"Yup. I've heard this song before."

And by the way. who the hell are you? You're some schmuck crowing about downturns in real estate on some anonymous board. Whether or not you hear whatever song, no one gives a shit. truly. folks are out here buying, selling and renting properties, making money and all you wanna do is post negative shit that everyone already knows. Whats your angle on this brother?

steve's angle is that he is bitter that he sold his apartment years ago, missed out on the real estate upturn in the past ten years, and wishes things would crash back to very low levels so he doesn't have to feel so depressed about renting for all these years.

thats what I figured. Sounds like he lost out on several hundred thousand. Well, Steve-o, your loss was someone's gain!

And, IMHO, anyone who thinks the east village real estate market is headed for a crash obviously hasn't a grasp of that neighborhood. It seems he focuses ont he west village which does appear to have run up quite a bit (unlike the east village), but I have limited knowledge of the west village other than that its damn pricey and likely to stay that way. Either way, though its not my cup of tea, many other folks love it there and are making money there (except Steve).

"steve's angle is that he is bitter that he sold his apartment years ago, missed out on the real estate upturn in the past ten years, and wishes things would crash back to very low levels so he doesn't have to feel so depressed about renting for all these years."

I'm not depressed at all, I do own real estate, and I made money not only in New York but also in Miami.

I just don't catch falling knives.

"folks are out here buying, selling and renting properties, making money and all you wanna do is post negative shit that everyone already knows."

Apparently they're not buying or selling or renting, since inventory continues to climb, asking prices continue to fall, as do market-rate rents.

Sorry you don't like me. Not that I care, but I am sorry - for you.

totallyanonymous said --> "prices will not plummet significantly as opposed to, say, the west village."

Would love to see this happen. What's your basis for this stmt? Because it's probably the highest priced 'hood?

Totally, your vulgarity does not warrant a response.

"What's your basis for this stmt?"

Is Steve's post about 1600 psf is correct, thats fairly steep. but knowing him, he's citing the higher end stuff. Although I certainly know that asking prices in Chelsea were and are ridiculous and have fallen. Regarding the east village, most prices never got above 1000 psf outside of the A Building and established stuff like the Christadora and maybe Ageloff Towers and select other stuff. The stock walk ups are still rising in value because most folks who bought into them bought low. there just is not alot of inventory in the east village. its simple supply and demand. the coolest neighborhood with the least inventory.

You ask an NYU student (many of whom have rich parents) where they want to live, do they say the West Village? Maybe, if they're off the farm. no, they say East Village or LES (more likely East Village). NYU isn't going away anytime soon and there will be a STEADY supply of renters with pockets each abd every year to take up the stock in the east village.

Just so you know where I got that data from:

Sales in West Village
We found 176 listings
Median price: $2,600,000 Median size: 1,668 ft² Median price per ft²: $1,735
Information on West Village

Sales in Chelsea
We found 450 listings
Median price: $1,750,000 Median size: 1,400 ft² Median price per ft²: $1,281
Information on Chelsea

Regarding "NYU students," which of them can afford this:

Sales in East Village
We found 101 listings
Median price: $1,195,000 Median size: 1,000 ft² Median price per ft²: $1,155
Information on East Village

Yes - their rich parents will buy it for them. And then the Europeans will swoop in because their property prices are rising astronomically.

Or - are they falling?

Maybe I'm missing it, but I still don't see an answer re your stmt that the WV will plummet significantly.

What does the EV have to do with it? Or NYU students for that matter? Do you have a factual basis, or are you just here "posting negative shit" which is what you accused steve of doing?

I never said that prices *would* plummet significantly* there. I rather said that prices in EV would not plummet *as* significantly as in the West Village. I have no idea what prices are going to do in the west village. neither does Steve.

great conversation around EV/LES - now a bit more around this neighborhood. The rezoning that is about to get approved will significantly limit and take away future development and rights in this already desirable neighborhood. The decreasing of future units in this area should alone be enough to hold property value during the current downturn.

The contextual rezoning will also ensure that the quality of the neighborhood - lower buildings, historically interesting buildings, light, air, and quality of life (limit on commercial units on side streets) may bring a possible increase in property values during the downturn.

There are also a few blocks in the entire neighborhood that will be upzoned. This means that whilst the entire area is being downzoned there are 4 blocks that will receive a doubling of buildable sq ft. Here is an opportunity for owners and developers to make some cash even in a downmarket.

Steve-- Whats your net worth? Are you a big guy or a little guy. Cause you sound like a little guy. I'm a little guy, but I admit it. You devote far too much of your time to negativity to be a big guy.

KISS - the only reason that I can see where WV sales prices would decrease more than say the LES is the WV has been gentrified and settled for a longer period of time which lead to a much higher price per sq ft. The higher price per sq ft may be harding to attain than say the current lower LES price per sq ft.

"There are also a few blocks in the entire neighborhood that will be upzoned. This means that whilst the entire area is being downzoned there are 4 blocks that will receive a doubling of buildable sq ft. Here is an opportunity for owners and developers to make some cash even in a downmarket."

Far more reasonable an assertion than your "overnight money doubling" routine.

"There are also a few blocks in the entire neighborhood that will be upzoned."

Which ones? I think the plan said the widest blocks could have redevelopment so I would guess 1st or 2nd Aves? But the heart of EV around TSP in all likelihood remains relatively untouched, apart from whats going up already?

totallyanonymous, he's referring to the upzoning on Ave D, parts of E Houston, Delancey, Chrystie, and Pitt.

> 1900? That's even before the coops were built!

Yes, they lived there before the coops were built, newaccount.

And Queens is still in New York. Before that, it was in Brooklyn.

in addition to the upzoning the rezoning provides for tax abatements and other incentives for developers to rebuild the blocks which bjw was correct on above.

for the record, I am not totallyanonymous

but I do (obviously) more or less agree with what he is saying (well, except for the nyu student thing, they are like an ever-spreading virus as far as I'm concerned). the neighborhood is bustling, gentrifying but still has a lot of character. most of the housing is old walk-ups so anything newly built that is halfway decent can command pretty good pricing psf.

using average prices is not relevant at all, you need to look at it block by block, and even building by building.

press on the rezoning from the last day:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/15/lower-east-siders-deliver-petition-against-re-zoning-plan/?scp=1&sq=rezoning&st=cse

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2008/07/15/2008-07-15_lower_east_side_rezone_plan_another_mike.html

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2008/07/stringer_on_hot.php

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=83792

petrfitz, are you sure about the abatement incentive? I haven't looked into this in much depth, but aren't they phasing out 421-a?

> And Queens is still in New York. Before that, it was in Brooklyn.

No, Queens was never part of Kings (Brooklyn). Perhaps you're thinking of Nassau, which used to be part of Queens. Or The Bronx, until the Great War or so a part of Westchester.

Manhattan, though, has always (1664) been New York County. Astoria's not in it. New York -- so nice they named it thrice!

And if I were from Ohio, I'd be proud to admit it. But I'm a Manhattan native. My mother's a (Williamsburgh) Brooklyn native. Her mother's a (Lower East Side; she used to say "the East Side") Manhattan native.

Ohio's charming country though, mighty charming.

Astoria is in Queens, which has been part of New York City since 1898. Sorry to burst your bubble Alan, Astoria has the same mayor, fire department, police department, sanitation department, school system, etc. as you do.

Yes, but not New York County. So it's in the New Territories. You should always remember that. Not that there's anything wrong with being peripheral.

Hmm, being a born and bred New Yorker, I'll say thanks but no thanks to some Ohio or wherever transplant's view sharing on what constitutes New York City.

Funny Steve bags on the LES and pumps Manhattanville. If you look at the press today the National Historic Trust is trying to save the LEs from developers and preserve it, and today the city is voting to determine whether or not Manhattanville officially qualifies as "blighted"

More brilliance from Steve.

petrfitz, that whole vote is really just to determine if Columbia can take property over from that last guy who's holding out. Those parts of Manhattanville are not any more blighted than parts of the LES. There are some truly hideous blocks on the LES.

bjw is correct. The vote is to use eminent domain in Manhattanville to force holdout owners to disgorge their properties for this project.

That statement by Sneaky is about as true as when he said that in Chinese, the words for crisis and opportunity are the same.

but still you are saying that a blighted neighborhood yet to be developed is a better buy than a neighborhood currently and for the near future under assault by developers. Also the LES is decreasing the amount of buildable available in the near future, Manhattaville will be increasing its available buildable.

You are totally wrong Steve yet again.

"but still you are saying that a blighted neighborhood yet to be developed is a better buy than a neighborhood currently and for the near future under assault by developers."

Again you twist the meaning of "blighted."

There is no doubt that Manhattanville will be developed, and the development will stretch from Cathedral Parkway (110th Street) through Presbyterian Hospital, which is Columbia's Health Sciences campus. It will include Columbia - starved for space - its sister institutions TC, Barnard, Manhattan School of Music, + City College, 125th Street in Harlem and all the way up.

Columbia is one of the wealthiest institutions in the country. There is no doubt that this will happen, in good times or in bad. Private developers, however, flee the bad times: just look at that permanent hole in the street by the Port Authority. Private developers only develop when there is a profit to be had. Columbia does not need to run a profit - they can spend at will.

petrfitz, not sure how someone can be "totally wrong" with an opinion, but it's amusing to hear at least. I agree with stevejhx here - Manhattanville prices are quite low for the most part right now, which means the long-term potential there is favorable. I don't necessarily agree with him that you always need an "anchor tenant," but it doesn't hurt to have an Ivy League school as a neighborhood mainstay, at least in terms of investment. That area will likely look like Morningside eventually. As for the LES, much of the RE there is priced with future development in mind. You keep harping about this rezoning, which I agree will help parts (but not all), but it's already a "hot" area, and prices are already pretty high for the most part. But if you want to put all your money on Pitt St, more power to you.

bjw - where do you own?

Queens Market Report Released by Ellima: "the report does note that the average Queens sales price dropped 8.8 percent from the first quarter"

http://www.prudentialelliman.com/NYCPhotos/retail_reports/li-qu2q08locked.pdf

There's a lot of air underneath the LIC prices. I don't know where the market stabilizes in Queens. Why would anyone buy in LIC when they can get a better East River experience on Kent ave in Brooklyn?

even better deal on the East River is the Seward Park co-ops in LoHo.

There's no such thing as LoHo.

ok then BelDel

How about EOE?

80sMan, you must be kidding? I don't even know where to start with all the reasons people would prefer LIC to Williamsburg, or even some areas of Manhattan. Why do people who are uninformed make statements about things they don't know about.

petrfitz, not sure where I own is relevant - but I own in the Boston area and in Brooklyn.

80sMan, completely agree - Kent Ave is a better bet than LIC or Seward Park or anything on the FDR/eastern stretches of Grand St.

Yes, there IS such a thing as LoHo. But it's only a RE brokerage. That's all; nothing more.

The only problem with Steve's discussion about Manhattanville is where Manhattanville is. My understanding is that it's pretty much ONLY the (mostly) industrial land that Columbia will build it's new campus on, plus the housing projects across Broadway. North and south of it are Hamilton and Morningside Heights. That leaves no room for any private residential development. Unless he means the few blocks west of the projects. Then maybe, or maybe not.

But, for better or worse, Columbia doesn't have magic powers of gentrification. Morningside Heights has had its severe ups and downs despite Columbia's continued presence there since the late 19th Century.

BJW - you are quick to criticize where everyone else owns, therefore you must own in great areas. Where is Boston and where in Brooklyn?

i won in the leather district of boston. awesome area but not manhattan.

own, that is.

petrfitz - I never criticized where everyone else owns. I don't know why you're so sensitive when I'm only stating my opinions here. Boston is in Massachusetts last I checked.

well bjw where do you think people can make money in NYC RE? Tell us your wisdom instead of naysaying others.

If you take the time to read my comments on this page alone, you'll see I'm not "naysaying" on anything. I just think (again, my opinion, which you free to disagree with) that some areas are better bets than others - Manhattanville rather than the LES, Kent Ave rather than LIC, etc.

What blocks of Manhattanville do you think are a good bet for residential appreciation, bjw2103? As stated, I'm pretty sure the campus plan encompasses the entire tiny sub-neighborhood, same as if NYU redid the Meatpacking District. Or do you mean that Columbia's redev of the 125-133/Bway-12th site will radiate gentrification in all directions? Not that I agree or disagree with that, nor have much of an opinion about the LES, but I'm curious to know the logic behind your statement.

The only reason to buy in LIC is for those who cannot afford manhattan. It's no secret that LIC owners are more stretched than Manhattan owners. LIC is totally a fringe area that will get effected by a downturn.

There's no way Kent Ave is better than even the projects in LES. Please!

LIC - luxury buildings at the waterfront, skyline views, 5 minute subway ride to Grand Central, great new developing area, 60% of Manhattan prices. You geniuses are right, why would anyone want to live there?

alanhart, it's pretty tough to speculate on exact blocks, but I meant that the redevelopment site will radiate gentrification, as you put it. I don't know what the strict definitions of Manhattanville's borders are, but I imagine residential property around LaSalle St, City College, the Fairway Market, etc., will become quite attractive to those in the Columbia community (students, faculty, etc.). I'm sure there are valid arguments against this, but that's my general line of thinking here.

newaccount, I don't think ALL LIC owners are "stretched out." Some people genuinely like the area. Kent Ave is going to be quite nice - much easier to have that happen than to turn the LES projects into a destination. And there is no FDR on that side of the river.

alanhart - i believe your statement about radiating gentrification is accurate. I see postive changes all along the strech of Broadway from the 120-about the high 160s. My rentals in the 150s used to be largely left alone by the inspectors/sanitation police but now they're cracking down on all kinds of issues they used to let slide. Apparently, the city is trying to fix the issues of litter, double parking, noise and other nuisance issues the area is notorious for. Seems to be working but has more to go.

"even better deal on the East River is the Seward Park co-ops in LoHo."

Petrfitz. You are wrong on this one. The prices have plummeted there (true, they skyrocketed since they went "public" but the board is entirely inept as holdovers from the working class days cling on to power. The buildings look like prision cells, poorly poorly designed with bedrooms in the interior and such, low ceilings, etc.

Plus there are 3 or 4 other mitchell lama coops on grand which are equally distasteful. I warn people not to buy through "LoHo" realty as the place is corrupt and in fact the guy's dad and SPC was sued back in 98 or 99 for racial discrimination against an asian couple.

LIC just needs s new name to attract demand. And while nothing will top the acronym recently suggested on this board, how about something more aptly colorful, like "Brownfields"?: www.kahrrealestate.com/Higgins_Chap6.pdf (with apologies for the semi-literate prose -- it's by an NYU student).

BJW - you are a moron - turn the LES into a desintation. It already is THE destination for fashion tourists, rocker kids, art crowd, restaurant crowd. You do know that MTV is building a virtual LES that will be the basis of their digital video platform?>

Also the East River Park is one of the biggest city rennovation expenditures and sits rightin front of those Seward Park residences.

Its true that very few people people choose to live in LIC over manhattan and it is true that most who do live in LIC are overstretched. There are a very few who may choose to live there and a very fw who are not stretched.

Meanwhile most owners, including what you call the projects, in the LES are sitting on massive amounts of equity - 500% return since 2003 alone. Also a good portion of what you call "projects" are Mitchell Llamma housing founded over 20 years ago and now priming to go market rate.

Washington Heights should be the next to pop if it follows the East Village mold. See how "Rent" affected East Village values. It became a tourist stop. Now they have "The Heights" on Broadway. If thats a success, buy in Washington Heights.

LIC - you're paying future prices for a neighborhood that doesn't exist yet. People choose LIC because they cannot afford where they really want to be. The neighborhood is competing with areas like Jersey City, Greenpoint, Harlem, and Bushwick as the next hot area near Manhattan. I left out prime Williamsburg out because it's already an established area, like Park Slope and Brooklyn Heights.

LES - you're paying low prices for an area that is trending upwards. People want to be here. Why choose a fringe area when you can be in Manhattan?

totally anon - since I post so much about wash. heights I am sure you know I agree it's a great area. i would caution people to stay low, though, until the services come in. the hospital seems to be pushing services down from the high 160s and Columbia seems to be pushing up. my next purchases will probably be in the 145s. right now i am mostly on 157th through 163rd. my opinion is that the areas 170s and east of Amsterday are still a little edgy.

petrfitz - take the ad-hominem stuff back to Curbed and stop polluting this board. Enough is enough. If you read correctly, I was talking about the parts of the LES closer to the river (as you saw above, I agree with you on other parts of the neighborhood, just not the far east ones). Those are destinations? Nobody goes to Pitt St unless they live there. Anything east of that is even more barren - LIC and Williamsburg are already better. I don't know what a "fashion tourist" is, but it's ridiculous to label groups as "rocker kids" or "restaurant crowd." Your comments about LIC are unfounded as well - how can you make such blatant generalizations?

I actually know nothing about the Heigths other than the Musical and that Manny Ramirez is from there. That and they like to throw things at cops from the rooves. Otherwise, it appears to me it will have a cache with hicks and foreigners much the way the East Village did.

Buswhick is sort of old news. Its already too expensive for six families out there unless you settle for some frame piece of crap. Hopefully some recent buyers get nervous and start unloading over there but I don't see that happening.

eah, the 140s will turn out nicely - definitely agree with you there. It's still a bit dicey right now (this is exactly where that Columbia student was attacked about 2 years ago), but it's in the right spot given all of Columbia's planned activity, and transportation is actually pretty good up there.

Yeah, will be interesting to see how it unfolds. Probably will hinge on whether they can get he current resident base to get on board.

The coops by the East River are actually nice to live in. It's quieter than prime LES and does not have the smell. Ideal for hanging out on Orchard and taking a short walk home to sober up in peace.

It's scary to be on Pitt St even with the police station nearby. It's also another world, yuppie territory, when you go one block west of Pitt on Rivington. In the LES, you really have to look at each block individually. Pete's perspective is that a shitty block like Pitt has so much more potential to improve than a prime block.

Where was the Columbia kid attacked? Remember that guy who was shot a couple of years back in the LES? Thats a super hot block now (was then too). Macabre to say, but white kids getting attacked lends to the cache of these areas. It really does. Gives it the "grittiness" all these people seem to love so much. I think its masochistic that this sentiment exists but whatever makes you money.

newaccount, you are talking out of your butt. Everyone except Michael Bloomberg and those at his asset level live where they can afford and not where they want if money was unlimited. There is always a bigger or better place a person would choose if they had double their money.
You can't compare LIC to Bushwick, Harlem or Greenpoint. There are completely different reasons a person would choose one over the other. Jersey City is comparable, but again, if you work in midtown you are more likely to prefer LIC. Also, the prices now reflect the state of LIC today. Once more people move in, and most building is complete and more amenities open (which will occur gradually likely over 2-5 years), the prices will move from 60% of comparable Manhattan apartments to 70-80%. It is amazing how people who don't know what they are talking about love to express opinions.

Doesn't Bobby Flay live in LIC or is he in greenpoint?

newaccount, that's been my point to petrfitz all along - I'm not saying it's 100% impossible for Pitt St to improve that much. I just think it's unlikely and therefore extremely risky. But hey, it's his money.

totallyanonymous, read this - I don't think the descriptions will entince anyone to move there. It's a bit tough to read it and not shake your head in disgust/horror. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/06/nyregion/06rape.html.

LICComment, agree with you there. I think you've got to be patient with LIC, but you've got the right perspective IMHO. I feel much the same way about Kent Ave, except that the timeline there is probably sooner given the proximity to all the stuff in North Williamsburg.

bjw - of course there's no death penalty for this piece of shit. I feel both happy and sad for these kids that come here from god knows where. happy because they don't carry the innate distrust of certain people I carry from growing up in the Bronx, and sad that they don't. You cannot teach common sense. If this girl had any, she'd never have gotten into that elevator. But its hard to blame a victim of such an act. They should fry that guy, but there's an ACLU lawyer waiting to tell us what a bad childhood he had.

newaccount - you are too funny and dont know a thing about the LES. You should stay on the UWS its "safer" there.

it's a city, there is no safe. remember the woman who was killed in the west village...she was hung by her own shower curtain in her home because she threatened an illegal worker? or the girl shot in the LES because she did not cooperate with a mugger. and on and on.

"or the girl shot in the LES because she did not cooperate with a mugger. and on and on"

Actually, that was the girl's boyfriend who got shot because the loudmouth girlfriend said "What are you gonn do, shoot us?". And they did. (If we're talking about the same incident which i think we are).

And the West Village was the actress who apparently yelled at the illegal guy who as I recall was from a culture where a woman does not talk to a man that way. Not excusing the guy, but a little common sense for these people might go a long way.

TA - you continue to be wrong!

The girl was shot not her boyfriend Nicole Dufresne

People get shot or are robbed in every neighborhood in the city.

I agree--some common sense. my point is just that if we search long enough in the last few years there have been a lot of isolated events. horrible but not enough to drive real estate trends.

"TA - you continue to be wrong!

The girl was shot not her boyfriend Nicole Dufresne"

Whatever. it was the hipster boyfriend who didn't do shit. Sounds probably like you.

"People get shot or are robbed in every neighborhood in the city."

Maybe someone should shoot you.

LICComment - you have convinced me. LIC is the next Park Avenue. We should all invest and live there because things are guaranteed to happen there.

Pete - Pitt St. is scary. Do you see the purple Hummer with the chrome rims and drug dealer who drives it? Gentrification will take at least another 30 years to happen on that block, but I'm sure you bought low. Hang on to it and I'm sure you'll make a nice profit.

TA says "it was the hipster boyfriend who didn't do shit. Sounds probably like you." I am a civilian board member of the Armed Services. Do you think that I got there by "not doing shit"

What makes you so tough?

"Maybe someone should shoot you." You just sound more and more like an idiot every post.

new account - Pitt St? You mean where the Hamilton Fish pool is and where the 12 story lux condo tower that is going up on the Henry Street Settlement?

Also Pitt Street that borders on all them "projects" that are Mitchell Lamma and now able to go market rate?

I know how Pitt Street is NOW and who lives in the yellow brick buildings. some of the residents have cheap rent and will never move. Just because there will be lux condos won't make it a better neighborhood overnight. I'm on your side here. I have said that there is plenty of potential for that area and the upside is better than Bushwick and LIC.

Masaryk Towers are Mitchell Lama, not the ones behind them.

NA--Don't bother arguing with this yutz. He's got mommy issues. Probably what got him Don't Ask Don't Tell-ed out of the service.

petrfitz,

Are there any M-Ls left on the LES that haven't gone market rate yet? I know nearby (FD) Southbridge Towers is well on its way. But where on the LES?

"I am a civilian board member of the Armed Services. Do you think that I got there by "not doing sh!t""

Didn't Bush supposedly appoint you? Bush also appointed that guy who ran FEMA, whose previous credentials include the Arabian Horse Club. Just sayin'.

Anyway, Pitt St is pretty horrendous, even the parts you mention. I don't know details about the lux condo tower on Henry St (good luck selling those), but Hamilton Fish Park and the Henry St Settlement aren't even included in the rezoning plan you keep talking about. It would only be a small portion of Pitt.

there's a mitchell lama on Avenue C up around 10th Street. Not sure if its "public" yet.

TA it sounds like you are really one of them Log Cabin closeted home republicans. Beware the guy yelling the gay slurs the loudest as he is the one most likely to tap your foot in the mens room stall.

Bush did appoint me, but I was nominated by Spitzer.

You guys need to give credit where credit is due. Sneaky Pete buys low and sells high. He is a visionary. He sees potential and grabs it, unlike LIC where you pay future prices for today's living hell. 5 mins to midtown. HAHAH!

"Bush did appoint me, but I was nominated by Spitzer."

Well that just says it all doesn't it?

"TA it sounds like you are really one of them Log Cabin closeted home republicans."

Log cabin or not. 'least they're Republicans. We'll take 'em. Maybe if your boy Spitzer were log cabin he'd still be in office, or then again maybe he'd be shacked up with Jim McCreepy.

Hey TA - want to meet me at the mens room stall at JFK?

TA - you still havent answered what makes you so tough? I beat nothing.

"TA - you still havent answered what makes you so tough? I beat nothing."

Whats your point, guy?

I think South Jamaica and Broadway Junction / East New York will show the biggest declines in the next year. How about you?