Brooklyn Point

Considering how amazingly well sales were doing before they started closings, and then how even more super amazingly well they were doing on top of that when they slashed prices and brought in Serhant to take over marketing and sales, I'm confused as to why with the upcoming 1 year anniversary of the first closing it looks like they only have approximately 166 units out of 458 units closed or in contract, which is barely more than one third.
https://www.urbandigs.com/forum/index.php?threads/are-developers-playing-chicken-with-the-market.9/

Not sure where you are getting your numbers but the building is very close to being 50% sold.

I just closed on my unit last month and the projection is that the building will be over 50% sold by next month. This was confirmed on the appraisal. The sponsor is releasing Board seats next month and the residents are having elections for board positions since sponsor is required to do so due to the number of closings that have occurred.

Brooklyndent is right. Building is close to 50%.

I also just moved in to the building and the building documents that had to be provided to the bank showed the same thing.

That "projection" is a total fiction. That some appraiser repeated the lie they were told on an appraisal be they needed to in order to get a loan approved doesn't change the facts. Readers can go back over this thread (though I doubt many will) and see who has been blowing smoke for years.

@30 Not sure what facts you actually have, or why you have reason to believe that anything is fiction, but all you have to offer here is negativity.

@30 I hope that people will go through the thread, because then they will see, yet again, that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Tell us again "This building is a "condop" on a land lease" and that it's me who doesn't know what they are talking about.

41D sold for $2,558,789

Have to laugh at apartments at that price point with 12’ x13’ “master bedroom “

Have to laugh at apartments at that price point with 12’ x13’ “master bedroom “

Or asking 2m for a 12x13 living room and an 11x13 MBR (#43C) for that matter. At least SE shows the building as land lease.

Time to go sing "Little Boxes" with lyrics updated for modern high rises.

why the hell the crooks pump so much money into the system?

I was initially considering to buy in these buildings last year for primary residence,Had toured BP quite a few times. As i said before it was a shoe box sized with hardly any room for a decent sized sofa and couple of chairs. My rule of thumb was if i cant comfortably fit in a god damn six seater dining table. Not worth the 2M price point imho for primary residence. Doesn't matter how great or fancy the amenities are!!

So out of curiosity, where did you go? Were you able to find something somewhere else in New York City brand new, two bedrooms and a larger dining space for 2MM?

@BkIndent. To be fair to BP, I couldn't find that in any other brand new construction either. So went back to Manhattan, in a fairly well established residential neighborhood close to CP, a older building from 90's but newly renovated.

@30 - how do I get in contact with you? Would like you to grill my attorney as he reviews the materials. Will pay handsomely.

@30 - how do I get in contact with you? Would like you to grill my attorney as he reviews the materials. Will pay handsomely.

https://www.urbandigs.com/forum/index.php?members/david-goldsmith.2/#about

30 or Bk - I'm looking to buy in the building. Would love a referral for an attorney who is up to the challenge.

BK - From my read of the plan, Extell has the right to assign the "option" to purchase the land from NYC to another party. Couldn't Extell compel the board (that it controls for at least the next 5 years) to sell this "option" to Extell. Then couldn't Extell turn around and sell back to the coop for a much higher number?

Am I thinking about this the wrong way?

@MarkyMark did you find an attorney yet? I have a recommendation for you.

As of today how many of the 458 units are actually Sold & Closed?

My quick count added up to 216. What are you seeing?

It seems people paying ask for recent contracts.
https://streeteasy.com/building/brooklyn-point/43d

Not really my cup of tea, but the amenities and the views are pretty outrageous.

inonada,
So what do you think of the claim "the projection is that the building will be over 50% sold by next month" from 5 months ago?

I wonder about the use of the phrasing “the projection is…”. Whose projection? 216/458 = 47%. Those who said “close to 50%” were closer, I suppose.

Amenities & views are indeed outrageous. Shouldn’t have skimped out on the apt ceiling heights, IMO. At that price point, I’d figure people would rather pay the ~5% extra for another foot.

And the developer could have at least specified a switch-controlled ceiling light so the situation in photo 4 could have been avoided, and rotated the bathroom sinks 180 degrees at installation so one doesn't have to stare at the overflow hole all the time (pix 5,7,9). The second fix doesn't even cost any more, but does take an attention to detail that seems to be lacking.

Great point on not having a ceiling electrical box in the bedroom. And can’t believe ceiling height seems to be just 8 foot 3 inches going by almost up to ceiling door and kitchen cabinets as Nada noticed.

The ceiling heights are either 9 foot, 10 foot, or 11 foot, depending on which floor you are on. I agree that it would be nice to have a light box in the ceiling. Some people who live in the building have had them installed.

I mean in the bedroom. There are light boxes in the living room ceilings.

Prewar apartments had lightboxes for ceiling fixtures in the living room, and of course in the dining room, and sometimes in bedrooms. Very unusual in postwar buildings , except for dining rooms/areas. Recessed lighting would be much more common, supplemented by table lamps.
Has anyone seen a chandelier in the living room of any new building? Or a ceiling fixture in a bedroom? Seriously?

ph41,
Ask Tom Ford.

300, I can believe the ceiling height in the pics of 43D being (close to) 9 feet. Look at the kitchen stack on the right. 36” standard counter height, plus 2x18” Miele coffee machine & speed oven, 24” cabinet => 8 feet. Plus ~1 foot where the kitchen drops. Wide-angle shots make these things tricky. Nevertheless, I would’ve preferred another foot for correspondingly more money myself.

BKIndent, where do the ceiling heights change? Part of confusion is that even for 61D, they are showing the same pics (~9 foot) as they were for 43D:

https://streeteasy.com/building/brooklyn-point/61d

BKIndent, Thanks for the clarification. It seems the ceiling next to the door which goes almost up to the ceiling must be dropped (assuming 8 foot door). 9 foot ceiling seems to be adequate for smaller apartments as the rooms are relatively small.

On lighting, I believe every room has to have a central ceiling light source unless it has recessed lights supplemented by whatever people want. Of course, the buyer may choose not to use the ceiling light source. It is just not possible to clean with floor and side lamps and tell right clothing from your dresser. Also floor lighting takes up precious space and ceiling lights don't.

I see the dropped ceiling on right of the kitchen now.

Most floors have 9 foot ceilings. Interspersed throughout are certain floors that have 10 foot ceilings. Floors 15, 22, 23, 24, 30, 32, 37, 46, 48, 53, 56, 63, 66, 67 all have 10 foot ceilings. Floors 38 and 68 have 11 foot ceilings. So, depending on what ceiling height you want, you can select that.

Thanks, BkIndent . The fact that there are options and you get to choose is nice. What did you choose? Do you have a sense for the % price premium for 9’ vs 10’ vs 11’ on adjacent floors?

>> Of course, the buyer may choose not to use the ceiling light source.

I’m generally not a big user of ceiling light sources. Important for kitchens and dining/pool tables, of course, and hallways because there is no other option. But as for the rest of it, I don’t care for it much. Floor lamps, wall flushes, etc. tend to have more character visually and nicer light than non-descript flush overhead fixtures (and non-descript is better than elaborate IMO for that genre). I generally hate ceiling can lighting, because it means they dropped the ceiling height which is a big no-no for me. But to each their own. Really, I fault the designer for highlighting the issue by creating what Aaron2 refers to as “the situation in photo 4”.

(FWIW, I don’t think getting enough light for cleaning is an issue in apts like this.)

To me cleaning in daylight is essential.

I'm prefer to do my cleaning in daylight, but my boss also prefers I work for him during those hours. Given my current lack of domestic staff, lots of cleaning gets done with all the lights turned up after dinnertime.

George Izenour (who practically invented modern stage lighting) called recessed cans "ceiling acne", and really disliked their look.

We just completed fairly large renovation of our home. I think the 'cans' in the kitchen come in handy and my daughter's room. Otherwise I really wish we wouldn't have put the few in that we did in other rooms, as we never use them.

Fortunately, there are slim recessed LEDs now which only take up 2-3 inches of space. Far cheaper than old cans as well.

Yes 300, that's what we have.

@bk

I went ahead and bought. Loved the views.

Am just trusting that Extell is not going to do anything that would screw owners down the line. They have a strong reputation today and are incentivized to keep it that way.

Very happy to see that in 2022 SE talk still has topics that can generate this much participation. I look forward to reviewing this one in 10 years. I know better minds than mine disagree, but I suspect this is a solid buy for those who are taking the plunge (using my definition of “solid”
vs that of inonada. :)

I’m down with taking the plunge — in the rooftop pool, if any buyers on the thread are willing to invite me.

Some buyer in this thread should host a StreetEasy gathering at the property, no names allowed. How many show up as 30yrs, Inonada, Bkdent, BKbuyer, or Mr. Pink? If ever I am back in NYC, I am going to check out this property in person one way or another.

If no one steps up to invite us, I’ll tag along when you look at the listings & amenities. It’ll be a little awkward when I show up in a swimsuit, but whatever…

Have you ever thought about buying in a building like this? Seems like it might click with you on certain levels: cozy-sized apts, amenity spaces that foster socializing with neighbors.

Mr MCR would love it; for the nanosecond that we are ever in NY, it would make sense for him. As for me, I need to get back to NY in the next few months to continue upgrading our cabin on The Titanic. Supply chain issues notwithstanding, new windows are ready for installation!

Maybe Extel will host an event for the streeteasy forum folks in one of the social rooms? They can give everyone a tour, and have a little Q&A session on the ownership structure ; )

MCR you share the initials with a famous '90s emo band " My chemical romance" known as MCR to their legions of fans.

Hmmm - I prefer that significantly more interesting expansion of the initials to my own.

https://brooklynpointnyc.com/availability#floor-plans

Units available for Lease!!!!

This seems not entirely bullish, but I would expect to see more in new devs that haven't sold out, right?

Now you can do some interesting comparable:
2bed/2bath, same line & floor plan
21A & 28A for sale
21A sold in July for $1.9M @ 20% down & 5% mortgage locked in June + $1400 maint. + $0? tax
= $9.5k/mo + insurance
28A listed for $1.9M locked now + $1400 maint. + $0? tax
Now @ 20% down & 6% mortgage = $10.5k/mo + insurance
And as rates continue to climb:
@ 20% down & 7% mortgage = $11.5k/mo + insurance
@ 20% down & 6% mortgage = $12.5k/mo + insurance

OR
23A for rent at $8000 !
22A WAS for rent at $8000 but is "temporarily off market"

Anecdotally I would say they will not achieve that $8k rent considering what you can get in other rentals/condos in nicer parts of Brooklyn for $7-8k/mo for 2-bed/2-bath.

So put down $380k + maybe $60-100k in closing costs, to pick up a short-term declining asset and then lock in costs that are $30-45k/year higher than what it will actually rent for? And good luck renting out your unit if you buy, because the sponsor has years of inventory they will be leasing out ahead of you.

Or the developer sells a big block (or all) unsold units to a private equity shop or a hedge fund, who, because they have access to cheaper financing than you, will be able to rent at a more competitive rate. Meanwhile, you're one of a few independent owners in a building that is effectively run as a rental, and owned by people with a rental mentality. Is this the sort of building you really want to live in?

"Response by Bklndent
about 2 years ago
Posts: 63
I know because I met the broker who has the two units listed.

And like I said, the sponsor cannot rent units, only sell them."

loooool, can't believe I missed that
"the sponsor cannot rent units"
Uhhh... says who?
Isn't that how every condo project works?
Even beyond that the sponsor can sell to related entity LLCs and rent under those, no?
For sure my building has had sponsor renting out units, as has every other new dev in my hood.

The previous financing that the sponsor had at the time prevented leasing of the units. 30yr never bothered to read anything (or has little comprehension of what he reads, not sure of which one). If he were paying attention, this was
the initial financing from a while ago that has since been refinanced. The sponsor now has the right to lease the unsold units.

In any case, the building is already over 70% sold. The same economic conditions in terms of rising mortgage interest rates are no different here than at any other new development or owner selling their apartments. The difference is that Extell doesn't have to be in a hurry to sell in this environment. They have the resources to hold.

The developer is certainly going to protect their investment and take advantage of the high rental rates in the area in the mean time.

One of the great things about this building is the owner community here. We are a tight knit group and everyone knows everyone. The building is well maintained and there is quite a busy social calendar maintained by the managers. You would be hard pressed to find anyone here who bought and is unhappy with their purchase.

Is it still a land lease?

As of today, offering up to 3 years worth of free maintenance.

See below. So this structure actually has a name and is not considered to be a land lease (kind of is though). Debate!

“These coops are one unit located in a master condominium. The overall condominium while having a fixed duration is subject to an ‘Estate for Years’ ownership structure which is distinct from a land lease property and has several favourable attributes. Most critically there are no ground rent payments or lease charges to a third party throughout the term. There are no resets either. The ‘Estate for Years’ is not a lease but ownership for a specified period of time.”

Is there an option to purchase the land at $1 as well at some point of time in the future?

No.

I'll let you figure out why that's the wrong question.

Keith,

In your experience what does it say about a project when the Sponsor starts renting out units and offering concessions like 3 years worth of free maintenance?

bpcbuyerconfused,

So what happens when that "specified period of time" expires?

When the specified period expires, the occupant must vacate and return the property and all improvements to the land owner.

BPC,
While I have not read the full offering plan, what do you make of the following in the offering plan. I have added **** at the relevant points which show option to purchase at $1? Is this misleading and negated by something else?

From the offering plan start:

1. Summary of the Offering.
This Offering Plan contains an offer to sell shares of stock in an apartment corporation,
called "Tower Residences'', which are within a condop. This means that although the Property is
being developed as a Condominium, the Tower Shares to the Tower Residences will be held by
cooperative ownership. The Condominium will contain three (3) units: a Residential Condop Unit,
a DR Unit, and a Commercial Unit. The Tower Residences are located within the Residential
Condop Unit. ****The cooperative apartment corporation, which will hold the lease to the Residential Condop Unit, has the right to purchase the Residential Condop Unit in the future for a fixed price, which price shall be paid by Sponsor (except for $1 ). *****
The development of the Property as a condop, rather than a condominium or a cooperative,
is on account of the ownership structure of the Land, as more particularly described in Special
Risk #2 and Special Risk #3 below.
2. The Condop.
As described in Special Risk #1 above, the Property is being developed as a condop,
meaning that a cooperative containing the Tower Residences will exist within the three (3)-Unit
condominium to be formed at the Demised Premises. The Condop is comprised of a condominium
called The CP3 Condominium (the "Condominium") containing a Residential Condop Unit (in
which a cooperative will be formed), a DR Unit, and a Commercial Unit. The Residential Condop
Unit will be leased by the cooperative apartment corporation (the "Corporation"), with each
Purchaser owning shares in the Corporation and a Proprietary Lease for a specific apartment in the
Building (a "Tower Residence"). The Common Elements of the Condominium include the Land
beneath the building. Initially the Residential Condop Unit will be owned by the City of New
York and is subject to the lease to the Corporation of the Residential Condop Unit (the "Residential
Unit Lease"), pursuant to which the Residential Condop Unit can be purchased by the Corporation
between 2031 and 2055 (see Special Risk #3, describing the Residential Unit Lease), and a lease
to the Sponsor of the DR Unit (the "DR Unit Lease").
At or prior to the First Closing, the Declaration of Condominium, in the form of Exhibit
13, will be recorded, which provides that (a) a portion of the Sub-Cellar through Seventh Floors
will be the Commercial Unit, (b) a portion of the Cellar will be the DR Unit, which will be leased
to an affiliate of the Sponsor, and ( c) the balance of the Building will be the Residential Condop
Unit, which will be leased by the Corporation, and the Common Elements.

**** The Residential Unit Lease provides the Corporation with the absolute right to purchase the Residential Condop Unit at any time between July 1, 2031 and June 30, 2055 (the
"Option Term") for a fixed price. Sponsor will pay toward the Residential Condop Unit Purchase
Option in an amount equal to $1,397,758, on or prior to December 31, 2020 so that the amount
remaining on the Residential Condop Unit Purchase Option is $1, as further described in Section
1 of the Introduction to this Offering Plan. The remaining $1 shall be payable to Landlord by the
Corporation during the Option Term in order for the Corporation to exercise the Residential
Condop Unit Purchase Option. Although the Residential Condop Unit can be purchased in 2031, the Residential Condop Unit is not anticipated to be purchased until twenty five (25) years following full budget payments after the First Year of Operation (which is anticipated to begin May 1, 2020 and end April 30, 2021), in order for the Tower Residence Owners to continue to pay lower Real Estate
Taxes until the PILOT expires at such time. After the Residential Condop Unit is purchased, the
Owners of the Residential Condop Unit will have the ability to convert the ownership of their
Tower Residences from shares in a cooperative that owns the Residential Condop Unit to
ownership of individual condominium units. ******
No representation is made as to the tax or legal
consequences of taking such an action at such time as when the Residential Condop Unit is
purchased and the Residential Unit Lease cancelled.
Each Tower Residence has allocated to it a number of shares in the Corporation
(individually, a "Tower Share", and collectively, the "Tower Shares"). Each Tower Residence
Owner will vote in elections based on that Tower Residence Owner's Tower Shares and each
Tower Residence Owner's share of the Tower Charges will be based on that Tower Residence
Owner's Tower Shares.

Offering plan C160008 from AG's website.

cd160008

Section 8 considered!

"Defense" of this building amusingly reminds me of another thread from a decade ago.

If someone can verify this building has the best croissants in brooklyn west of flatbush ave.....Im in!

Ha. Truth, I don’t care to defend the building. I just got curious enough with the death march between BKindent and 30 (MTV style for those who remember) to open the condo document I excerpted from above.

Ha. Truth, I don’t care to defend the building. I just got curious enough with the death MATCH between BKindent and 30 (MTV style for those who remember) to open the condo document I excerpted from above.

Haha 300 not you.

Yes the one poster is reminiscent of the Setai thread with the boasting X% sold and how great and tight all the fellow owners are.

The co-op owners have the right to purchase the condo unit for $1 after 2031. This removes the leasehold agreement. The building owners can choose to stay coop or could convert to condos if they wanted.

No one has to defend the building or denigrate it. I think that some people have nothing else to do but think about and obsess over someone else's real estate that they have no interest in.

I also have no problem with that, if that is what one wants to do with their time, but read and educate yourself on a building before spewing misinformation so you don't look like a moron.

BKindent, The excerpt from the plan I posted (from the very first real page) confirms the ability to buy the land for $1 from the city. Is there something somewhere else which can be viewed to negate that? AG would have done a pretty shitty job if the very front of condo plan has some loopholes.

"confirms the ability to buy the land for $1 from the city."

And people wonder why I keep making corrections.

No @300 Mercer, you are correct. It is right there in the first pages of the offering plan. All of the 300+ people who have closed here and their attorneys have all read the same thing. There is no loophole. Thanks for taking the time to actually read and post it.

I wish if people knew something they will post an actual fact supported by offering plan rather than claiming they know something they don’t want to post. Again I haven’t read the full offering plan. I am just curios.

This is why we ended up backing out and buying nearby. Our RE attorneys were terrified of offering plan (good attorneys).

I do sometimes wish I had access to those amenities though. That gym looked great!

10 current rental listings. 7 of them from Extell.
https://streeteasy.com/building/brooklyn-point

Better than having them sit empty.

https://streeteasy.com/building/brooklyn-point/37g?
11/10/2022 Price decreased by 3% $999,500 ↓
09/22/2022 Listed by Realmart Realty LLC $1,030,000
01/05/2021 Previous Sale recorded $990,263

https://streeteasy.com/building/brooklyn-point/65d

In contract 12/17/2020 $3,550,665

Listed by SERHANT 1/31/2023 $3,050,000

Hopefully these articles help with condop and land lease questions. BK Point is a unicorn.

https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2023/04/09/new-developments-market-co-ops-with-condo-rules/

https://www.brickunderground.com/buy/what-is-a-landlease-what-to-know-before-buying?amp

Hopefully these articles help with condop and land lease questions. BK Point is a unicorn.

https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2023/04/09/new-developments-market-co-ops-with-condo-rules/

https://www.brickunderground.com/buy/what-is-a-landlease-what-to-know-before-buying?amp

Hopefully these articles help with condop and land lease questions. BK Point is a unicorn.

https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2023/04/09/new-developments-market-co-ops-with-condo-rules/

https://www.brickunderground.com/buy/what-is-a-landlease-what-to-know-before-buying?amp

Hopefully these articles help with condop and land lease questions. BK Point is a unicorn.

https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2023/04/09/new-developments-market-co-ops-with-condo-rules/

https://www.brickunderground.com/buy/what-is-a-landlease-what-to-know-before-buying?amp

Hopefully these articles help with condop and land lease questions. BK Point is a unicorn.

https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2023/04/09/new-developments-market-co-ops-with-condo-rules/

https://www.brickunderground.com/buy/what-is-a-landlease-what-to-know-before-buying?amp

Hopefully these articles help with condop and land lease questions. BK Point is a unicorn.

https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2023/04/09/new-developments-market-co-ops-with-condo-rules/

https://www.brickunderground.com/buy/what-is-a-landlease-what-to-know-before-buying?amp

Hopefully these articles help with condop and land lease questions. BK Point is a unicorn.

https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2023/04/09/new-developments-market-co-ops-with-condo-rules/

https://www.brickunderground.com/buy/what-is-a-landlease-what-to-know-before-buying?amp

Hopefully these articles help with condop and land lease questions. BK Point is a unicorn.

https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2023/04/09/new-developments-market-co-ops-with-condo-rules/

https://www.brickunderground.com/buy/what-is-a-landlease-what-to-know-before-buying?amp

Hopefully these articles help with condop and land lease questions. BK Point is a unicorn.

https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2023/04/09/new-developments-market-co-ops-with-condo-rules/

https://www.brickunderground.com/buy/what-is-a-landlease-what-to-know-before-buying?amp

Sorry didn’t mean to post that 20 times!!

TRD
"Brooklyn Point operates as a traditional condop, with the lower floor retail space as one condo unit and the residential section as a co-op. Goldstein described the building as a “unicorn” because the city will only own the site for 25 more years, during which the developer is not required to make ground lease payments and residents qualify for a real estate tax abatement.

At the end of the 25-year term, the co-op can purchase the land for $1 and dissolve the co-op.

As soon as they understand, all the concerns people have about normal co-ops go away."

BRICK
"The true unicorn of NYC landlease buildings? Brooklyn Point, which has a landlease, but, because developer Extell pre-paid the purchase option, buyers face no threat of sudden, or dramatically increased common charges. The building is technically a co-op, but operates as a condo, with no board approval, no restrictions on financing, and a 421-a tax abatement. When the landlease is up, the co-op has the option to pay the landowner, which is the City of New York, just $1, and could technically convert to a condo building."

Of course, the questions then are;

1) What are the other conditions, if any, than the $1 to buy the land

and

2) What are the taxes/ costs to dissolving the coop at that future date?

Your closing a coop, a corporation that everyone co-owns that has a building as an asset as well as acquiring land worth $ XXXXXX for $1 and converting to CONDO, thereby creating closing(s) and transactional events.
Is the method for this conversion already decided? If not, who decides? A building vote? A majority? Supermajority?

More disinformation and obfuscation.

I can't imagine that the legal fees to turn the co-op into separate deeded condo lots are going to be cheap. Wouldn't be now, and certainly not in 25 years. Let alone the potential tax implications for the co-op legal entity, as well as shareholders, and the issue of what to do with holdout shareholders who don't want to go condo -- are they handled like rental -> co-op conversions, with the sponsor (the co-op in this case) as their landlord?

In 25 years I expect the co-op shareholders to be footing large legal bills (having not saved up previously for the expense), lawsuits over the mechanics of the conversion and the orphaned holdouts, and Extell to walk away with a bundle of cash. I'll put a reminder on my calendar to check in (I'm hoping to still be around by then).