Williamsburg is Dead...

Right. But Ridge and Attorney streets are a hotbed of activity!

williamsburg is a total dump. i'm not surprised by the rising inventory.

rufus...what isn't a dump to you? Wait...lemme guess...Chicago?

petrfitz, since when is an anonymous comment from Curbed to be taken seriously? Nice find. Still waiting on that rental offer in Nevada...

williamsburg is overbuilt, and there is too much unbuilt capacity as well. So even when the existing inventory sells there is so much more that can be built supply will outpace demand for decades.

bjw - you dont qualify for $7500/month rent. besides I am spending a good part of november and december there.

Feel free to extend your stay.

EDGE RIP ---- oh well.

bjw - what building are you in?

I disagree with much of the above and here is why. I know of 5 friends (all are married couples, engaged or in long term relationshiops) moving into nev developments over the course of the next 3 months. They are respectively, lawyer, lawyer, banker, strategy consultant and hedge fund VP. This is the thing--the new deve prices will not go down significantly (and I hope they do because I want to buy there but think they are a little overpriced) until near completion/closing because really what is the reason for doing so. They only reason to reduce price is because one has to do so and there is no need to move inventory quickly until completion. the remaining inventory will be reduced in price and much of the rest will be rent to own (ie non-view apts on water front). Whether you guys like it or not, the gentrification of Williamsburg has already begun and is, already, past a tipping point. So for those of you hoping for rents to go back to 2002 levels and for the professions to stop swarming in and mixing it up with the hipsters, artists etc that have not already been priced out.

Would I want to be a developer right now, no. However, what you are saying is way overblown and the friends of mine are moving into buildings that are all either sold out or have one or two units (max) remaining. This is because most devson the interior are priced at a discount from on the water (for obvious reasons) and they sold quickly or (at least in one case) though on the water and sold at a premium, a building that started selling a year or more ago did just fine. The exception I think is Northside but I think that is in part because the layouts suck (not too many split two bedrooms and not enough one bedrooms and studios) and partly because people aren't stupid and don't want to pay a premium to be on the water when they know their views will be obstructed by future development. The interesting thing is that even there they are mostly sold with the exception of non-view apts that are now rent to own.

Its just too late to make the claims you are making. Williamsburg is going to be fine and its too late to hope that the gentrification will be reversed.

petrfitz, I'll give you my address if you give me yours.

btw where is the quote you are discussing. I read the article from today and it suggested that Williamsburg is not dead:

http://curbed.com/archives/2008/10/01/oct_1_2008_the_day_the_real_estate_boom_died.php

"So, can we get a waterfront Williamsburg condo for a loaf of bread? Not quite. Most of the focus is on the commercial world, but there are examples across the markets"

cheetah says "They are respectively, lawyer, lawyer, banker, strategy consultant and hedge fund VP" sound slike a crew that is about to have a serious reduction in earning potential. Williamsburg is crashing and hard. too much inventory, and too much potential inventory.

did you see the stories recently about the machete weilding gangs in Billburg?

Williamsburg is a step up from Hoboken.

Cheetah779902, I completely agree that it's "past a tipping point," which is why I finally decided to look there and eventually bought there. I wouldn't worry about what petrfitz and rufus say (and to a lesser extent GoingDown) - they are clearly trolls. I have fun with them, but they really are just trying to get their kicks by getting a rise out of StreetEasy posters.

105 Rivington

What exactly do people mean when they say Williamsburg is dead? It will be a ghost town in a year? Seriously - to think there will be a mass exodus or meltdown is simply idiotic. I'm moving there next year. If only one other property sells in the area over the next year or two, I won't be disappointed. I will still have the proximity to Manhattan. The skyline views will not change. Shops and restaurants will continue to operate on and around Bedford. McCarren Park will not disappear. If you hate Williamsburg so much, GTFO or stay away. No one is forcing you to live there.

BillyRes - i dont live in Williamsburg, I am on the other side of the river. We are not talking about everyone leaving, we are talking about a complete deflation of housing prices.

petrfitz is just anothre blowhard who cries the sky is falling...oh year its so unsafe in williamsburg...what an idiot!

I am so worried walking down busy bedford about being attacked that I cannot hide my fear of. of...Bedford Cheese!!!

Williamsburg is leagues above Hoboken for a number of reasons, the least of which is the ease of getting into Manhattan and the number of good restaurants and bars...

And btw all of my friends moving in are safe in their jobs and doing fine, thanks.

I am hoping to find a place in the next year and it will likely be in Williamsburg. BillyRes, you are right on!

Cheetah you obviously have some sort of steak in WB. Maybe you bought there or maybe you sell there.

BillRes, I don't think anyone is saying it will be a ghost town. But let's please face the facts, Manhattan RE is going down, the outlying areas that have benefited from this on the upside, are the same outlying areas that will be getting rammed on the downside. We are approaching a downside due to lack of credit and a dried up buyer pool. So let's get real here. They started to over build in WB and now they will suffer their fate of having to reduce asking prices. Will it be a ghost town, no. Will values over the drop way lower than Manhattan, of course. If you have a deposit down at the Edge or other new building, should you be worried? Well I know I would not want money down on a depreciating asset, would you?

Good luck!

People buy in Williamsburg because:

1 - they cant afford Manhattan
2 - they cant afford DUMBO, BKH, PS, CH, or BH.
3 - you are a 22 year old trust fund kid who thinks that you will dress like the Strokes for the rest of your life.

Williamsburg will drop faster than all the other areas above.

The good news is that it will return to its psot dot com bubble bursting vibrant scene of unemployed hipsters hanging out 24/7. It worked successfully for OddTodd.

Williamsburg 2001 = Williamsburg 2009

http://www.oddtodd.com/index2.html

GoingDown, as far as I know, only Peter Luger's has "steak" in WB.

petrfitz, you do realize that the LES is quite similar to WB, except dirtier and louder, right?

the LES is nothing like WB. for starters its in Manhattan, you know the island you cant afford to live on?

Get a clue.

hee hee BJW - you know the next group America will turn its hatred toward????

Its the criminal in the health care industry that have been ripping off Americans like the Wall Streeters have been ripping us off.

Its now a matter of time before your ilk is just as vilified as the criminal wall streeters.

petrfitz: I don't disagree - a large amount of inventory currently exists. And a lot more appears to be on the horizon. This is true of other areas such as the FiDi and Chelsea. Short term, Williamsburg is not the best investment. However, Williamsburg has a tremendous amount of potential to be a great long term investment. I believe many people have unrealistic expectations for Williamsburg. They expect Williamsburg will be built in a day (a la Meatpacking District). And when that doesn't happen or when development slows down (or completely stops) they are quick to deem the evolution a failure. Real estate prices are dropping in most areas in and around the City. Williamnsburg is no exception. Besides stating the obvious, what is the real point people are trying to make here?

This whole "it's in Manhattan" argument is so old. You'd probably say the same thing about Chinatown. And your "People buy in Williamsburg" assertions, are they also based upon your reading of anonymous postings on Curbed? Grow up and get that chip off your shoulder. It really saddens me.

Petr- where in the LES are we talking about? For the most part, subway access over there sucks. It's like a FSU tailgate party on the weekends and let's be honest, most of the buildings are very old and grimy. I go there for a drink on the weekends, but it's become so "meatpacky" that it's not even cool for that anymore.

Williamsburg is far quieter and has more potential, IMHO. And it's just cooler. As gentrification continues, the park will get increasingly cleaned up. There's a $50mm renovation on the mccaren pool and the waterfront is going to be revitalized with a new park. There's already a critical mass of restaurants, bars, etc and the L train is far more frequent than the F/V. Though I'll give you that F/V can get you no transfer into midtown. The big thing that is missing in Williamsburg is a big grocery store and maybe a movie theater. Obviously it's inconvenient if you're a big partier and want to cab it home on the weekends from Manhattan but I've found that the L train is adequate enough. I haven't takaen cabs there, but a car service from Williamsburg to union square is about $15.

btw, i don't live there i just like the vibe over there.

Thought I'd weigh in here. I like Williamsburg, although I think there will be an oversupply of new developments coming to market that will be under price pressure for some time there. I also like the LES, and like it better than Williamsburg, but they are not really that different in terms of the kinds of places/people who live and hang out there. I do agree that Williamsburg has great long term potential as a neighborhood, but don't know if there are enough supply constraints to make it an attractive from an investment perspective.

Petrfitz - nice joke about living at the Rivington hotel, like you're Paul Stallings or something. The reality is that you live on either Ridge or Attorney street, the most marginal part of the LES which will take 20 years to be developed, if it ever does at all.

goingdown and petr are just blowhards saying the sky is falling...i have absolutely no "steak" hahaha in Williamburg. I live and work in Manhattan and am LOOKING to buy in Williamsburg or elsewhere in the next year.

no such "steak".

BillyRes, good to see you here. Your assessment is spot-on, IMO. WB is a long-term play (as all RE probably should be anyway) and there's really no way property values will be 10x what they are now at any point in my lifetime. As for the gentrification issue, a lot of people talk about what will be, but the reality is that people's expectations/needs/wants differ according to the individual. I am actually quite happy with the level of gentrification as is. Improving the parks, etc., is great - don't get me wrong - but it isn't the final piece I need to feel happy with my purchase.

evillager (still love the unintentional beer connotation in your name), the supply constraints were THE issue weighing on me before I made the move. I agree. But I'll enjoy living here until I have to make some kind of decision on keeping it as an investment should I need to move/find more space.

Special_K, Tops isn't quite Whole Foods, but it's a "big" grocery store. I imagine they'll get a bit bigger in a few years when Kent is more crowded. As for the movie theater, check this out:
http://www.freewilliamsburg.com/archives/2008/09/cassandra_cinem.html

so you guys are arguing that a secondary market like Williamsburg is going to hold its values or increase? Does that also mean that the primay markets like Manhattan, and Brooklyn prime will not lose values or increase as well? Or are you saying that Williamsburg is such a value that it will buck the trend and hold value while others lose?

bjw - good point. everyone here seems to like to crap on everyone else's neighborhood, or decision to buy or rent, but ultimately what matters is that you are happy in the apartment and neighborhood you live in. glad you enjoy yours.

feel free to pitch a special edition "evil lager" to brooklyn breweries for halloween...

The arguing is stupid. Face it, both Williamsburg and LES (like most of Manhattan and closer Brooklyn) are about to go through some major declines. Perfitz trying to point out other folks' RE losses is completely hypocritical, given that he is the ultimate top of bubble buyer.

petrfitz,
Williamsburg IS the hottest neighborhood in BK, not dumbo nor bkheights.
You can't beat 5min commute to Unionsquare anywhere in BK, NJ, or most part of NYC. It all depends on the point of reference really.

On the other hand, there are so many construnctions up in WB that it may have hard time retaining its value. Personally, I would not jump on $850 psf condos in WB. I paid just under $500 psf 5 years ago and anywhere in between I would expect to decline in worst case scenario.

GoingDown: <>

Is there anywhere better to have a steak?

Steak is cheaper in WB that is for sure. But if you want a real steak you will have to come to Manhattan for it. So face it losers you lost lots of money if you bought in WB and now you are stuck there. The rise in RE values help to do one thing at least... get the losers out of Manhattan.

GoingDown, you're giving bears (like me) a bad name. bjw2103 doesn't pump Williamsburg, he in fact speaks very soberly about it, as you can read above. If you have some data on WB you'd like to share, please do (I have), but talking smack at someone who's put time and energy into the board (unlike a recent arrival), and genuinely enjoys his home, is pretty weak.

eastvillager, it's been pronounced evil lager to me since bjw mentioned it months ago.

hey perfitz...your saying that inventory is too high in WB???? but the whole f*cking country moves here...not to mention those from Manhattan who want to get a better bang for their buck. Everyone is from another state or Manhattan...inventory is high, but this stuff is selling..i've been looking to buy around here instead of just renting and apts are still selling..its unreal...there are some major selling points here..you have a park, tho not huge its still a park..you also have a waterfront and easy access to manhattan and downtown brooklyn...think about it...

Sorry here are you facts, read it and weep.

http://curbed.com/archives/2008/10/01/day_of_the_dead_the_wave_washes_across_brooklyn_etc.php#more

Slower sales, for one thing, a sluggishness that’s dragged from the summer into an uncertain fall. With this could soon come price tumbles. And with that, from the Bronx through Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island, the decade’s first real buyer’s market. It’s all thanks to the calamitous financial events in Manhattan.

1) Statistics: Per Jonathan Miller, Brooklyn condo sales dropped 11.3 percent in the second quarter, from 778 to 690, according to Miller Samuel. Prices are still going up, but the average condo sales price increased just 4.9 percent from the previous quarter, compared to 8.6 percent fin the same quarter last year.

2) Slowdown: At One Hanson, which sold 80 percent of its units before the market slipped into critical condition, the sales director says that "the lookers" seeking a second or third property "are gone" and that “we have seen a slowdown."

3) Not 'catastrophic': "We probably haven’t seen the September that we wanted to," says Highlyann Krasnow at the Developers Group, "but we’re still doing sales. … So it’s not as catastrophic as the media wants to see it as. The sky isn’t falling as far as we’re concerned."

4) Brooklyn Developments: At One Brooklyn Bridge Park, 30 to 40 percent of the 449 units have sold since April 2007. At the Edge in Williamsburg, about 20 percent of the building’s 575 units have sold in five months, but the condo is 15 months from opening. Viridian, at 110 Green Street in Greenpoint "has sold fewer units than expected since opening in June."

facts = good

subjectivity from brokers = not fact, but sometimes telling in its own way, or at least amusing

"read it and weep" = childish, and nonsensical when spoken to a RE bear

575 units = only Phase 1, it's 1085 total

Peter Luger's = my dad's favorite steak house

It's simple, GoingDown. This a great forum for civilized debate, and a lousy one for name-calling (not that I haven't indulged in self-defense, on occasion). There are some very decent people here, even if I don't always agree with them. One of them may help you when you're buying a place in the future. You'll also find it's a surprisingly forgiving bunch. Maybe you want to take a breath, then try again without the insults. Or, you can become one of the screen names everyone just rolls their eyes at.

GoingDown, I also have a steak in Williamsburg. At Peter Luger as had been mentioned. Is there anyplace else in Brooklyn worth $100 for a meal?

lit, easy access to downtown Bkln? None of the WB trains get you there, and it's a haul on foot (or bike, I've done it). You have to get around the entire Navy Yard (Lowery, how 'bout that Admiral's Row?), etc. It's like Kips Bay having easy access to the LES.

ooo, tenemental, did I find a great bike path for you!

I'm sure you've already biked this, but if not, the Parks Restoration Fund or Foundation (Bette Midlr) has spruced up the land between Harlem River Drive and the Harlem River north of the NYCHA projects just to the north of the Macombs Dam (155th St.) Bridge. It has wide bike paths, geese, and clean grassy lawns all the way up to approximately 9th Avenue/202nd or 200th Street, and will take you to a newly reconstructed Swindler's Cove park (completely with new boathouse), the Sherman Creek area, which has newly reconstructed parks and children's playgrounds. I think you can enter on an on ramp to Harlem River Drive from somewhere around 155th.

in the end its on the other side of the river just like hoboken is on the other side of the river. you dont cross the river unless you have to.

tenemental, thanks for having my back. I obviously like Williamsburg, but I try to be as unbiased about it as I can. It's a great neighborhood, but certainly not without its problems. I think the market will come down (not as much as some people here, but still) but I'm not overly concerned about it either. The transportation access is better than advertised here, but yes, getting to downtown Brooklyn is a pain. The G is there, but it's not ideal. I do have a car and indoor parking spot though, which is a luxury I never thought I'd enjoy in this city. And sadly, I've yet to eat at Peter Luger's (gf is a pescatarian). I hear great things though. And Dressler (which is really good) is also across the street.

Completely unrelated, but since we're talking bikes here, tenemental, any recs for a good cheap bike for the city? I haven't had one in years and am a bit out of the loop.

Thanks, Lowery. I rode some of that route on the last trip I mentioned. The views were fantastic. I should try and cover the whole thing before the cold arrives.

Who knew I'd wind up admiring Bette Midler? Well, she did duet with Tom Waits.

having lived in williamsburg a few years ago, I have been awfully impressed with the neighborhood each time i go back (now live in manhattan). the next couple of years will definitely be tough on pricing, but not catastrophic, because all the elements of a great neighborhood are in place - bedford ave, the park, interesting shops and restaurants, easy (if crowded) transportation to Manhattan, and a lot of young people who are likely to choose to remain in the neighborhood as they "grow up" as opposed to fleeing to some soulless suburb. Prices will probably drop 15% in 2009, but 10 years from now, I would not be surprised to see them up 50% from current levels (about consistent with compounded inflation rate).

rj1: Exactly. The elements of a great neighborhood are spot on and cannot be argued.

Right, except that one element of everyone moving back into the city the second rents fall below a certain level. It's a neighborhood of necessity, not of choice.

zizizi: A completely ignorant post with no factual credibility.

Bedford Ave. - 50% real estate agents, 50% places to drink PBR

bjw2103, I'm a vegetarian myself, but growing up (well, from 13 on - it's my step-dad, actually), there was always a jug of Peter Luger's steak sauce in the fridge. He had some kind of in over there. Next time you're in Alphabet City, try Matilda on 11th btw B & C. Your GF (and you) will love it.

I know the big thing for bikes in WB (as well as the EV) is the fixie (no gears, no brakes, no coasting), but I couldn't imagine doing the rides I do (bridges, etc.) without gears. They look really cool, but I think they tend to be pretty expensive. There are plenty of choices under $500. One of my long-distance cycling friends has a Trek mountain bike (heavy but very sturdy) he got for less than $300. Sorry I don't have too many specific examples (mine's kind of unusual, don't want to give myself away), but the first question is: road, mountain, or hybrid? Road bikes will generally cost more and fly on open paths, but don't handle abuse well and aren't comfortable. A mountain bike is great if you ride kamikaze-style like I do (used to race BMX as a kid), but you can feel the drag of the wider wheels and add'l weight. Avoid knobby tires if you don't expect to be off-road at all. There are plenty of bike choices in between that are medium-weight, with medium width wheels and smooth tires that are great for getting around the city and then some. I buy from Metro Bicycles. Not that they know their stuff that well (they often don't), but they give free tune-ups for 3 years. I would think in bike-heavy WB there'd be a number of indie shops to check out.

Hope something in there helps. Have fun.

$14 cocktails at Hotel Delmano, so you can feel you're getting shafted even when the L isn't running.

"close to manhattan" means a horrible ride on the L packed in tighter than sardines. That is the epitome of classy city living.

Williamsburg is way down the priority list of places one would want to buy in Brooklyn. If you had to leave Manhattan you look at DUMBO, Cobble Hill, Fort greene then maybe Williamsburg. You pretty much have to be a wanna be hipster to live in Williamsburg.

Wait, petrfitz, does this mean you won't ever set foot in WB?

As for other Brooklyn neighborhoods, I like some of Dumbo, but probably wouldn't live there. Fort Greene is great - I seriously considered buying there. It does feel further removed from Manhattan than WB or Dumbo, which isn't a bad thing, but I'm not quite ready for that.

tenemental, thanks for the tips - very helpful! And definitely going to give Matilda a try. I think I'd read about it a while back - very similar to Miranda in WB, which is great.

"Williamsburg is way down the priority list of places one would want to buy in Brooklyn. If you had to leave Manhattan you look at DUMBO, Cobble Hill, Fort greene then maybe Williamsburg. You pretty much have to be a wanna be hipster to live in Williamsburg."

As i said in an earlier post, I am impressed with williamsburg, (I also like the LES - don't see why its one or the other, more similar than different). I would disagree with this comment above about where williamsburg falls on the desirability chart - i am no hipster by any stretch, 36 years old, 3 kids, plain vanilla job (and no, not a real estate broker) - and would prefer williamsburg to any of these neighborhoods noted above. DUMBO is very nice, but its pretty isolated, with more limited retail options. Cobble Hill is lovely, but a real trek to Midtown compared to Williamsburg, and I like McCarren Park better than any park near CH. Fort Greene is pretty far out there as far as I am concerned, and while the historic area is lovely, the neighborhood seems to be ringed by some sizable housing projects. On a lighter note, the "Die Yuppie Scum" graffiti so prevalent in the burg is charming in its silliness. No ironic graffitti in the other neighborhoods mentioned.

Apparently Paul Smith is opening a store in Williamsburg (a convenient location to buy my favorite socks). Another high end retailer who has done the research, understands Williamsburg's dynamics, knows where its customers are moving, and sees the area's potential. Paul Smith, A.P.C., potentially Apple....Marc Jacobs?

Many people will hate the gentrification of the area, but this is validation that Williamsburg is evolving very differently than all the other fringe neighborhoods and many of the ones in Manhattan. Whether or not you like this type of change is irrelevant. These businesses will have a long term impact on the value of Williamsburg's properties.

bjw - i am actually in WB regularly just dont live there. One of my development companies is based in WB. I just wouldnt live there.

Oh, thank God then.

"If you had to leave Manhattan you look at DUMBO"

Is it just me or is there basically NOTHING going on in Dumbo? I've been out there a couple times and was like - "is this it??"

Nada.

But you know you're a loser when you have to live in bburg.

I'll just repost what BillyRes wrote (astutely, I might add):

"zizizi: A completely ignorant post with no factual credibility."

DUMBO is nice but DEAD. Fort Greene, PS, BH is too far from LES/Midtown

bjw2103: you mean lacking credibility as in thinking that Fette Sau is great BBQ?

How many real estate agents are there on Bedford Ave.?

> Williamsburg IS the hottest neighborhood in BK, not dumbo nor bkheights.

Based on what?

> I obviously like Williamsburg, but I try to be as unbiased about it as I can.

Oh, ok. Got it now...

Eddie, what exactly is your point? You've got your axe to grind, fair enough, but some of us here actually try to inject as even-keeled a view of things as we can. Whether you believe it or not.

The point is, the two two of you are arguing like putzes and dragging this stupid conversation out.

Perfitz, we get that he's just trolling. But, now it looks like you are doing the same, coming up with troll bait like "this neighborhood is the best" with absolutely nothing behind it.

Point is, don't be as bad as perfitz. The conversation is stupid. As is your obsession with telling me who I am apparently, even after streeteasy pretty clearly told you otherwise.

Eddie, there are plenty of posters who have contributed to this thread. Furthermore, if you don't like the conversation, don't read it. Your combative attitude and name-calling isn't really what this board is about (see what was written above in response to GoingDown). As for your new alias, plenty of others have pointed it out as well. I find it amusing more than anything, especially given your complete silence about it til now (streeteasy cleared julia I believe, though that was stevejhx's claim anyway).

Thank you rj1 and BillyRes. Interesting reading your thoughts. I haven't heard about the Paul Stuart rumor. That's cool. I have a couple suits from there...can you just imagine a three piece Paul Stuart suit stepping on to the L...I love the juxtaposition and in fact I have both non-hipster and hipster friends out there.

Geez, this board sometimes is like a soap opera, or a gossip rag. LOL! The only drawback is that you need to steadfastly follow the boards to even understand what's going on. Otherwise, you'll just hear sound bites of long-winded discussion. I cannot imagine myself being too invested and reading every post here...but some are so invested they take things too personally.

Williamsburg is overpriced, overhyped, overcrowded and it's not really all that in my opinion. Some parts still look decrepit and there's only one subway line. It's definitely not Park Slope or Brooklyn Heights, I tell you that, but some of the prices are astronomical it's unjustifiable and laughable. We saw a 2-bedroom apartment for like 850K a while ago and it has a terrible view of some dirty abandoned lot and an old building or something.

(streeteasy cleared julia I believe, though that was stevejhx's claim anyway).

You didn't read what they said. They used the word "both" in all caps when saying the connections were incorrect.

> plenty of others have pointed it out as well.

This is same group that has pointed out plenty of other incorrect connections as well. I've also been called Steve a bunch of times. And an entire thread of me being dco. And then I was rufus, too.

I'm not sure why this is a particular obsession of yours, but it doesn't need to be on every thread.

Time to cut it out.

"You didn't read what they said. They used the word "both" in all caps when saying the connections were incorrect."

I took that to mean both connections, as in dryships was not julia, nor is she the Ardor broker stevejhx thought she was. Your opinions, style, and in some cases exact phrases are *eerily* similar to EW's - you are most certainly not steve, dco, nor rufus (they may share opinions but are obviously different). I just call it like I see it. Like I said, not a big deal, too much typing wasted on this already, just found it amusing that someone would choose to do that.

Gang Violence Continues in South Williamsburg

Hey South Williamsburg residents, a heads up courtesy of The NY Post today: the gangs are still around, even if you haven't spotted a machete lately. The paper reports that the neighborhood has got its own "offshoot of the notorious Bloods gang" and they're going up against the machete-wielding Trinitarios. The Pretty Boy Goonies (aka the PBGs) are about a dozen strong, and allegedly have a continuous turf war going on with the Trinitarios in Rodney Park. Councilwoman Diana Reyna says, "This is not fist-fighting we are talking about. They are using machetes to stab and slash, and screwdrivers. There are brawls in the streets, in broad daylight, stopping traffic." Police have upped their presence in the area, on the streets and on rooftops, and have also installed a Sky Watch at Marcy and South 5th Street.

A dozen isn't a gang, its a basketball team.

perhaps a hipsters / gangster street war is called for?

These "gangs" (and as nyc10022 points out, it seems they are quite small) have been around South Williamsburg for a while, and it's good to see police doing their best, even in leaner times. That said, all of Williamsburg (including South) has better crime stats than the LES.

http://nymag.com/news/features/crime/2008/42608/

I remember the late 80s "crime wave". Yes, there was an actual increase in crime. But it definitely got overblown.

If 2 black men walked past another 2 black men, it got called a "gang". The same 4 guys sitting on the railing in front of the stores on Rockaway Parkway for years were now a "gang". Then the stupid kids taking the train home together saw the news, and they called themselves a gang.

I swear, we spent hours and hours talking about "gangs" in high school, and I don't think any of us ever saw one.

williamsburg is a disgusting cesspool of poor hipsters and criminals. just stay away from that area.

What's so dangerous about hipsters? You might get hit with a kickball?

bjw - that chart means that Williamsburg just has less reported crime than others. It doesnt mean that it has less crime. Williamsburg is such a cesspool that most people dont even report crimes and the police dont record them.

Williamsburg is the Trenton of New York.

Stranded - a great way to not explain the area you want to live in:

Old and Stranded in South Williamsburg
Retired school principal Elizabeth Mulvihill moved from Long Island to South Williamsburg a couple years ago because she's old and doesn't want to drive anymore. So she dropped $1,040,000 on a two-bedroom apartment in Schaefer Landing, a development on the East River that opened in 2006. At first life was grand, with the New York Water Taxi whisking her away to Manhattan for doctor appointments in 15 minutes. But then the boats stopped running in the winter because the line wasn't profitable. And with the L train a mile away, Mulvihill says she's "stranded" and "depressed." Other tenants at Schaefer Landing are deciding against renewing their leases because of the lack of transportation, and with Depression 2.0 well underway, many are wondering what ever will become of all these optimistic new condos. New York Water Taxi wants a subsidy from the city to keep the South Williamsburg line afloat, and Mulvihill just wants an easy way to get to the doctor. She tells the Times, “I thought this was a safe investment, given the stock market.”

petrfitz, nowhere in that chart does it say that. It's more of your standard farce. Congrats on turning this board into Curbed (see rufus and Richard_Inya's posts).

Because people have telephones on the Lower East Side and not in Williamsburg?
Suddenly they're reporting all this more crime?

I do feel safer in the gentrified parts of WB than I do near the projects in LES. I think both are going to have issues in this decline, as will, well, everywhere in NYC.

i agree with nyc10022. NYC is in for a rough ride as wealth leaves the city and crime skyrockets.

Yes, then NYC will only be 99 times as good as Chicago, instead of 100x last week. But the only folks leaving the city are the ones who can't afford it.

BTW, Rufus, Chicago market has been tanking for months, if you hadn't noticed. HUGE decline in Case Shiller going back over a year... looks like the little wealth there is already gone.

nyc10022, the luxury real estate in Chicago is selling well. do your homework next time.

People go to and live in Williamsburg when they cant afford to visit or live in Manhattan.

3 trolls in one thread! A new record! I certify this thread as toxic.

Good call!

Time to close up the post... rufus just tried pulling out another "fact".

Richard_Inya, I agree. williamsburg is for hipsters and other poor ugly people.

One more thing that Rufus knows absolutely nothing about.... we'll just add it to the list.

Hipsters are neither ugly nor poor... especially when compared to the cows of Chicago. They may be annoying, and it might be their trust funds, but you are talking about an extremely image-conscious group.

Translation for someone who only knows the hogs of Chicago - young and pretty.

- Housing in Williamsburg is cheaper than Manhattan.
- Williamsburg is not part of Manhattan.
- The L is crowded during peak hours.
- Hipsters live in Williamburg.

Fine. Already stated and acknowledged.

But I still cannot see the value in idiotic comments such as "People go to and live in Williamsburg when they cant afford to visit or live in Manhattan." Enough already and please STFU.

^ Yes
Some people (myself included) actually prefer living in Brooklyn to Manhattan. That said, Williamsburg is a dump.

I never really liked Williamsburg because of the limited transportation options, but I took a customer (at their request) there a couple of weeks ago. I was so excited in planning the tour, to learn of so many new developments and couldn't wait to see what I'd been missing out on.

Well, what a disappointment! The place is a war zone, there is no consistancy to neighborhood, an extension of the Lower East Side, and all of that I really wouldn't mind if you could at least just find a bargain! Why anyone bothers to go over there, I just don't see it.

I don't know how Toll Brothers is going to sell out three buildings when the sales person emphatically told us that the starting prices in their first building are the absolute lowest that they will be marketed for. Ever??? I just don't see it.

The only area that looked promising to me are the buildings around the soon to be renovated McCarren Park. After spending half a day there, I still felt it was not a waste of time since it became clear that I'll not have to cross over that river again for a long time!!

BrokerGirl, your assessmen is right. williamsburg is an awful neighborhood, one of the worst i've ever been to. The renovation of McCarren Park is at least a few years away, and with this economy, it might never get done. There is also a huge crime spike as well, according to curbed.

rufus, that's great. Since you dislike WB so much, I assume that means you won't be spending any time over there, and frankly, that makes me exceedingly happy. Cheers.

Broker girl - what do you mean "an extension of the LES"

are you more knowledgible in real estate than those cuurently developing int he LES like Pomeranc, Trump, Schraeger, etc?