Noticing the threads are more about buyers asking about apts.

Yeah, the buyers are circling around like vultures . . . and as for all you owners, carrion as you were.

Asking isn't buying... the market stats show yet another decline in sales.

I like the carrion reference...

I think the percentage of buyers that use this site is less than 5%.

> is less than 5%.

I think you missed a couple of decimal places.

It probably depends on how you define "buyer." I think there are a really really lot of pre-shoppers here.

.005%

I would imagine most people here are fairly serious about buying at one point or another. Of course, there are a few who claim they will probably never buy. Why they spend so much time here is a bit of a headscratcher, but hey, this is a pretty fun place after all.

what's up buyers? What are you thinking? Seeing the light yet or still waiting?.....

I am fairly serious about buying "at one point". It will probably be in 2 years, give or take, for both market and personal reasons.

I spend a fair amount of time here because
(1) I do find that I am learning a lot
(2) I find it interesting to keep an eye on the market
(3) it's entertaining and
(4) I admit, it's a bit addictive.

Where are the sellers by the way? Given that their properties are not moving, wouldn't you think a few would be posting looking for enlightenment?

We are both buyers and sellers. Haven't quite seen the light but concerned that by the time we do, we'll have lost too much upside on this place to sell it. The question is whether to move to a rental in the interim and put our current place on the market or wait until we buy (close, renovate if necessary and move) and put this up for rent for 2 years (it's a coop) and then sell. (We do not need to sell it to close on a purchase.)

The problem with renting is not just moving twice but also the possibility that we find something as soon as we move in to the rental. Also think of the fun involved in looking for TWO places!

Ditto on all of newbuyer's points. I do figure to buy at some point, but I can't imagine it being any sooner than one year... though at that point, life changes might factor in more.

But I can't imagine even starting to look for a good 6-12 months.

I am a buyer but I not buying this year unless I can buy at my price. My price depends on the apt size, neighborhood, old apt/new apt., maintenance cost/taxes, etc. Before I buy I want to see more declines in NYC

I am a buyer who is waiting to buy when everyone else is afraid to. This time will come soon.

dmag, I think that is the perfect approach. And I don't think that time has come yet....

I don't think so either. I curious to see what the NYC numbers will look for Q4.

which we'll only get in January...

And then figure when *those* come in, they'll probably set off some more panic, making April another interesting point as well...

I would wait to see what the numbers look like for Q1 & Q2:09... Sales volume will be down dramatically...

"Carrion as you were." I love it.

Buyers may be "stirring" but, for me, and, I suspect, many others, it is just to stay aware of what is out there and what movement exists. Prudence cautions strongly against buying now!

I'm another interested buyer. "Stirring" is putting it strongly (and disengenously). "Waiting patiently but paying attention" would be more accurate.

If there are buyers now rushing into the market who'll get my apartments, I say let them have them. If prices don't drop (as I think they will), they stay flat, and I can get the same crappy deal in a year that I can get now. But I personally don't feel any pressure to move off the sidelines by my fellow-buyer compatriots.

If there's any pressure in this market, it's on sellers watching inventories rise and deal-volume dropping. As so many on these boards suggest, the more data rolls out, the stronger buyers' hand gets. If real estate can be compared to poker, I feel like sellers are bluffing, while buyers are actually holding cards. That's a significant shift toward buyers in what's fundamentally a psychological negotiation.

In short, SteveF, I think you're trying to identify a "trend" that's obviously not there.

If there are buyers now rushing into the market who'll get my apartments, I say let them have them.

way, way easier said than done JKB...first sign that the worst has past and they'll come racing...don't get run over..

Well, Steve, I'll take that bet.

Me, too.

> way, way easier said than done JKB...

Not in RE.

RE moves slowly. Inertia up, inertia down. And inertia at the bottom.

I was a buyer - but I'm going to be on the sidelines for at least a year now.

Sellers get the short end of the stick on StreetEasy. I read it to learn what buyers are thinking, more about the market and because I find it addictive. I wanted to ask questions but as a seller felt outnumbered and yeah I get it--apartments are over valued--but I didn't feel that people would be interested in my input as buyers or renters who talk, talk, talk about buying rule here.

When my apartment went into contract, but people didn't know that, it was the subject of a thread and I hated reading about it and not being able to talk but it's not over until the check clears after the closing

As a broker, I'm seeing more people like lo888 - both buyers and sellers. If you have enough equity in your current home, you can sell now at a fair price (especially if it's a bit under market) and move your equity to another relatively well-priced place. Even if prices drop (as I suspect they will), the deflation would arguably affect your current home at the same rate as your new one. So it's a bit of a wash, as long as the "opportunity costs" are not too outrageous.

I bought a year ago at what I thought was the top of the market. Why? Because I found a place I loved in a neighborhood where I'd been looking for two years. Even if prices had dropped precipitously (in my nabe they haven't yet, but still), I am glad I bought when I did - I had only 10% for the down payment, and would never qualify for my mortgage under the current stringent standards.

Bottom line? People buy for a lot of reasons. Some people buy investment property, pure and simple. But for the majority of buyers, well, it's complicated.

I think it is true, believe it or not. I just got a call back from a seller who would not negotiate now wanting to talk about paying for closing costs and may even come down some on the price.

There's a middle ground between gloom and doom and starry opitmism. I think prices are in for a decline, but maybe not so much list prices.

I've just started to negotiate, and I've already gotten pretty much all I wanted.

tina - good of you to be open about being a broker.

There's some merit in what you write about being both a buyer and seller, like lo888. I don't know his particular situation, but I know of three main reasons people want to sell one place in NYC and buy another:

1) They outgrew the current place (most common, as far as I can tell)
2) The current place is too big/expensive and they want to downsize
3) They just want something different (like being closer to the park as another poster mentioned).

In (1) your new place will depreciate faster than your old place if you expect the market to decline, so buying now is not a great idea if you can avoid it. In (2) buying now is great, but I just don't think there are too many of these people in Manhattan. For (3) it seems crazy to pay 10%+ transaction costs unless you REALLY want that change.

I've always been a proponent of individual reasons to buy or not to buy, I agree with you on that. I just have a hard time believing that enough of the types of people you describe exist to drive meaningful demand.

In our case, we've outgrown our apartment. I'm really itching to move but in this market, I feel it would be foolish to throw money at the first (or in our case it feels like hundreth) place we saw just because we want to move. We actually just pulled out of a deal right before signing because of the environment. If it were simpler to put our current place on the market, I would do it in a heartbeat. For now, I just hope that the market will be at least the same or buter 3 years from now when I've moved and exhausted my rental period.

Jade - would be curious to hear about your experience once the deal closes.

We're looking in new developments and since most of them will be ready by next year, I see no reason why I should hurry up right now. Last time we checked a new development (which was just last week), first thing that the broker told us is that the seller does not want to negotiate. We said let us know when he is.

I think the bottom line is if you spent years trying to save up so you can buy a place and given today's economic climate, you get more cautious about buying. It's easy to say buy now since the place will eventually appreciate 10 years from now. That does not apply to everybody. We were looking for a one-bedroom and was planning to upgrade after a few years but it obviously doesn't make sense now. If the one-bedroom we were trying to get is still around 700K (in BK), how exactly are we gonna break even after a few years? Or if we decide to buy the place then rent it out, how will the rent cover the monthly mortgage and maintenance?

All I know is that the sales are slow moving right now, and there are a lot of new buildings in BK with over 100 units and so far no significant price cuts. Let's see who blinks first.

Gonna be tought for buyers to blink when their finances (and jobs) are dwindling...

Let's see whose construction loan blinks first.

cleanslate - I think there's a real difference between new development (new construction) and new development (conversion). It seems there's more flexibility in the conversion properties. The new construction properties seem more likely to convert to rentals than sell at a significant discount. What neighborhood are you looking in? and would you consider resale? There are lots of nice Brooklyn 1 Bedrooms under 600K...