Looking for Rental ideas

go to all the big building brokers, should be right up your alley. No broker fees. Almost all doorman/elevator/mild luxury.

Rockrose, glenwood, archstone, etc.
Search those names and you'll find tons of posts listing a bunch of 'em.

Newbuyer, I would post your request on www.wirednewyork.com also.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Broadwall Management have 2 bedroom apts for approx. $5k.

This isn't superluxury, but some of the best bang for the buck on doorman/elevator in the city...

www.cccnyc.com

nybits.com

If you can go to 34th look into 300 E.34th street they say 1300sqft and it's accurate-feels much larger.
www.kibel.com

Personally, I'd talk to the doorman at the Columbia and leave a note for the owners of this one, to see if they're interested in renting:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/349526-condo-275-west-96th-street-upper-west-side-new-york
But then, I'm pretty brazen.

that's a nice one!

West 81st, great minds think alike. I talked to the doorman a week and a half ago, was planning to follow-up with him tomorrow.

As far as a note to the owners of the apartments for sale, is that better than going through the broker? I don't like brokers any more than the next guy, but not sure I feel right skipping them if the only way I learned about the potential rental is through their sale listing. Plus, do you think the seller has an obligation to pay them if the apartment is rented rather than sold?

Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions, I am looking into the ones I hadn't already.

Best option we have right now is Glenwood's Somerset on 72nd and York. Apartments are very large and very nice. Prices are ok, at around $5000-$5200 after factoring in the free month (although we plan to stay for 2 years, so need to negotiate something to avoid effective rent jumping the second year). My biggest issue with it is the location - just so, so far east.

newbuyer99: That's funny. Guess I'm not the only brazen b!tch on this board... or the only one who appreciates a nice terrace, even if it's attached to a somewhat cramped apartment.

I don't know the extent to which each firm's standard exclusive sales listing agreement also functions as an exclusive rental listing agreement. And of course, a particular listing might be non-standard. Perhaps a broker on this board can shed some light on the topic (while sparing us any lectures about the immorality of evading a broker).

It doesn't really matter from your perspective. Any obligation that exists is between the seller and the broker. You are not a party to their agreement and should not feel bound by it, legally or ethically. I understand that a broker's fee might influence the amount the owner would charge you as rent, but keep in mind that an owner could very easily lie to you about a fee: "Gee, I'd love to let you have it for $5000 a month, but I have to pay the listing agent two months' rent, so I have to make it $6000." At the end of the day, an apartment is worth to you as much as it's worth to you, regardless of where the money goes, so I think worrying about whether the broker gets paid is just mental clutter.

A typical sales exclusive will not address a rental situation, but when a broker has a rental exclusive in most cases there will be a clause that obligates the owner to pay the broker a commission should the tenant purchase the apartment. From my personal experience here's something to think about; not all owners "hate" brokers the way some of you do and if the owner was to find out about your scheme to knowingly circumvented the broker he/she may not look favorably on you as a potentially good tenant, you may not find your approach dishonest/unethical but this owner may. I have had this happen before and the owner's who considered me a friend and a valued my assistance made it very clear that this was a sleazy move and would not deal with this person with or without me involved. I won't lecture you on ethics but I do find your approach a bit off color and find your justification for it hypocritical. Just something to consider. I am on my way to Costa Rica to get married! And do some surfing/golfing/yoga..yeah "brokers", "Swiss/Italian" types do this stuff too just like regular humans.lol.

mazel tov, burkhardt! many happy years!

And without trying to put on my lecturing hat, if you find an apartment represented by a broker, and you try to go directly to the owner, that is unethical. There are a bunch of real estate transactions that take place outside of the brokerage system, and yet the particular owner that you are dealing with has chosen not to be in that group.

He/she has hired representation for a reason, and just because you see the representation for a sale, you don't know for sure that there isn't a rental agreement in place as well. (every agreement is, indeed, different).

Chances are that even if the broker doesn't "advise" that you will be a bad tenant -- and most will -- the owner himself/herself is going to look pretty askance at you for not following directions.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

I've gotta call BS on it being "unethical" to go straight to an owner. Why, because it cuts into your livelihood? The quesion is for the owner, and it is legal, not ethical. Do you have an agreement that the apt has to go through you? If yes, they have to honor the agreement. If not, tough for you.

By the same token, is it unethical for a broker to keep full commission on a no-fee rental building an unwitting customer from out of town could have found on their own? I would always see brokers showing apts in my old building(s) and would always be tempted to say "ditch the broker and save yourself some money"

Of course it's unethical for a broker to step in and interpose between a customer and a no-fee building -- unless the customer has specifically requested that service in the first place (which some do).

For one thing, some of those buildings also offer different deals to brokers than to direct customers -- if you want to search for the "Rivergate" thread, we just had this discussion over there.

What's legal, is, of course, an entirely different story, but if you are presenting yourself as a potential tenant, "I do what's strictly legal" is not perhaps the best sell.

I was a landlady for seven years, and my poorer, more scrupulous applicants always turned out to be better tenants than the richer ones who were always looking for an edge.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Here's a fiar compromise: Write a note to the sellers, and leave it up to them. Say, "I understand that your apartment is listed for sale with Elliman, and if you're interested in renting and prefer (or are obligated) to include the agent in the transaction, I will happily respect that." This way, any sleaziness is the seller's own choice. OK? Can we all just get along?

evillager I see your point but it's not that simple. I won't argue with you about seeing a sales listing that a broker has the exclusive on then circumventing them to try and do a rental deal. On that you have made up your mind and you are right, if there is no written agreement(regarding the rental) it's a judgement call. but I can tell you that most owners who value the services of a good broker to handle there property would not look kindly on it..that has been my real life experience.

Most people who are renting an apartment in NYC are sophisticated enough to know they can find an apartment on there own. They have done enough research to understand how things work here in Manhattan. So it is implied if they call a broker they can expect to pay he broker for his services, if they wish to avoid paying a broker they should stick to calling management companies directly. Another scenario is a client will call me up on an ad(I always give them the address) and tell me "do not show me any building's I can just walk into, I know about Glenwood, Rockrose" etc..so I don't. I very often have lease breaks in buildings that advertise "no fee", have on-sites etc I make sure the client is aware of the situation and let him decide if he wants to see it. It's really simple; if you don't want to pay a fee don't call a broker. I do find your logic a little contradictory though, you don't find it unethical to find a listing that you are only aware of through a broker who is listing it for sale, then circumventing that person to secure a deal. But you do seem to have a problem with a broker showing an adult who called them and engaged there services unethical for showing an apartment in a "no-fee" building? And please don't lump me in with all brokers...stereotyping is crass, you don't know me or how I conduct myself for that matter how many brokers do you actually know or have dealt with? I can tell you a few stories of clients who have tried to beat me on a commission I earned, lie to me that they took something else etc...As far as being dishonest that washes both ways, it's not just brokers, lawyers or butchers...it's people that try and justify any dubious act by claiming "brokers" are all crooks or the system is no good.

The problem is greedy landlords in NYC who for years have screwed renters by making them pay the broker fee on rentals.

No other city in the US pulls this crap, the owners pay the brokers who bring a tenant, which is as it should be.

For years the owners have screwed the tenants. Now I say to the owners: How do you like dem apples?

theburkhardtgroup - unfortunately, you are by far the exception. We are looking now, and I have had many, many conversations like this one that I had today:

me: hello?
guy: hi, I am responding to your email about apartment ___
me: great, where is it located?
guy: on west 60th street
me: can you tell me the address?
guy: no, I have to take you there.
me: because you are a broker:
guy: yes
me: Why did you post on craigslist under by owner's only
guy: I work for the owner, but I am a broker
me: further, the listing very clearly gives the phone number as the "renting owner" which is what I called, why is a broker calling me back
guy: oh, well, this is a no-fee apartment
me: why do you lie throughout your listing? stop wasting my time (hang up)

Of course, it turned out to be a brodsky listing that I was already talking directly to brodsky about.

Unfortunately, I am going through NYT listings now, and 95% of the listings are some combination of bait-and-switch, blatant lies, and reprints of no-fee buildings by brokers. Further, unfortunately, because brokers play this game for a living, and most renters don't, many get caught. "Most people who are renting an apartment in NYC are sophisticated enough to know they can find an apartment on there own" this is completely not true. Most people have NO IDEA how things work. I have played this game many, many times, and I still find myself getting caught by these tricks/traps.

It's really too bad for the few honest, reputable brokers that so, so many of your colleagues (especially on the rental side) are complete scum.

As an aside, I saw an apartment today where the broker was very offended when I implied that his ridiculous listing SF might be inflated.

Ok, rant done.

modern, in a market system, I don't think it makes a huge difference who technically pays the fee. Even when the landlord is paying the fee, I'd still much rather avoid the owner if I can, and get them to use the money that would go to pay the broker to lower the rent, throw in a free month, or find some other way to make me a better deal.

West 81st, I like your suggestion a lot. Total long-shots, but I think I will try.

I meant "avoid the broker" above, not "avoid the owner".

Ali, what's your email again? I'd like to ask you something offline, if you don't mind. Thanks.

7 days ago
ignore this person
report abuse reprinted -

AVOID BROKERS AND THEIR FEES - GO DIRECTLY TO THE SOURCE OF YOUR RENTAL NEEDS. BROKERS TEND TO TAKE YOU TO SEE THESE NO-FEE APARTMENTS FIRST AS THEY EARN 100% OF YOUR 15% BROKER'S FEE. HUSH...HUSH... THEY WILL NOT TELL YOU IT'S A NO-FEE RENTAL PROPERTY :( NOR WILL THEY REPRESENT THAT PRIOR TO SEEING THE APARTMENT. SO IF YOU NEED TO RENT, CHECK OUT THE RENTAL PROPERTY MANAGEMENT WEBSITES AND CALL THEM FOR UPDATED LISTINGS. SAVE YOURSELF THAT 15% TO BUY YOURSELF NEW FURNITURE OR HAVE A MOVE-IN WELCOME PARTY FOR FRIENDS AND FAMILY.

Excellent “BIG-TIME” Manhattan Rental Property Management:

Rose (www rosenyc com)
Related Rentals (www relatedrentals com)
Equity Residental (www eqr com)
Rockrose Management (www rockrosenyc com) [mostly chelsea, village, financial district, downtown condos]
Sky Management (www skymanagement com)
Glenwood Managment (www glenwoodnyc com)
BLDG Management Co. 115 E 92nd St New York, NY 10128 (212) 722-4931
Brodsky Management, Inc (www brodskyorg com)
Maclowe Management (www macklowe com) [condos below 60th street]
Urban Associates – 400 W 59th St # 3, New York, NY (212) 245-1870

Above average property management (mostly prewar lowrise to a few postwar)
ATA Enterprise (www ataenterprises com)

Below Average no-fee properties [aka slumlord]:

Jakobson Properties (www nofeerentals com)

Hi Newbuyer99, all queries answered.

Work email is: ali {at} dgneary {dot} com

Please put "Streeteasy" in the subject line.

best
ali r.
{downtown broker}

Ali, I sent you an email this afternoon. Thanks.